Related Links:
Books Conservation Online
(fungus and mildew tips etc.) [01/2001]
Health warnings about silica gel dust..
(see posting)
Lens Faults Hierarchy Page re:fungus
Lens Recoating FAQ

Fungus can grow on the surfaces inside your lens, providing there is enough moisture (and a bit of dust or lens adhesive to "eat"). Over time, the fungus can etch into the surface of the glass, causing permanent damage to the lens performance. The etched spots in the lens glass alter the lens surface and characteristics, reducing performance significantly and contrast in particular. A fungus attack which hasn't altered the lens shape or etched into the glass, but only eaten away at the very thin outer lens anti-flare coating, is less damaging to lens performance. Once the lens coatings and surface are etched and damaged, removing the fungus won't return the lens to original performance levels. You have to replace the damaged lens elements, which is usually so expensive it is cheaper to just junk the lens.

I should warn you that many other problems are mistaken for fungus attacks. In particular, volatile lubricants used in lens diaphragms to reduce friction can evaporate in hot conditions (e.g., Texas heat waves). These chemicals can then deposit on the nearby glass lens surface, causing huge reduction in contrast and the appearance of a fungus infected lens. However, a lens can easily be cleaned of these contaminations using cleaning solutions (e.g., 50:50 hydrogen peroxide and household ammonia according to some repairpersons). So before you give up your lens, have it checked to be sure it isn't a less costly problem. True fungus attacks usually look like spidery webs of fungus colonies spreading out over your lens insides. You will probably need to check carefully with a small penlight shining through your lens to see these fungus colonies. Have you checked your lenses lately?

While fungus can be removed during a lens CLA (clean/lube/adjust), the damaged and etched lens elements may be costly to replace. Not every fungus spore will be removed during even the most thorough cleaning. Even if you sterilized the lens elements (not recommended), fungus spores would still be sucked into the lens during focusing and use. Many people warn against using real leather lens carrying cases or bags as a potent source of fungus infection. But there are enough fungus spores in the air (often hundreds per cubic meter) that lenses are easily infected in general use. So since you can't get rid of fungus spores, you simply have to make your lens an inhospitable "desert" in which fungus can't live or grow.

A recent announcement (by Zeiss) suggested that it may be possible to innoculate future lenses with coatings and surfaces which will discourage the growth of fungus. Great news for the future, but that doesn't help most of us with our current and older lenses today!

While it may be possible to have the lens surface reground and refigured, the high cost ($100-250 USD+) of this procedure makes it uneconomic for most lenses. Mechanically removing the fungus from the lens surface(s) with a lens CLA will improve the lens condition. If the fungus has not appreciably etched the lens surface, this cleaning might be sufficient. In other words, checking lenses in use and especially in storage can help detect lens fungus early and reduce the amount of damage and cost of repairs.

Drying Out vs. Fungus

However, there is a LOT of water in the air, especially in the tropics. Many photographers report getting fungus problems in just 4 to 6 weeks after traveling from a relatively dry climate to a wet tropical climate. To be really effective over longer term storage, you need to reduce the amount of airflow around the lenses. Otherwise, your silica gel packets will quickly absorb their limit of moisture from the air, and become ineffective.

Reducing Silica Gel Costs

A Personal Storage Example

Storage of scores of lenses used to be a problem, and finding lenses and related items even more so. Then I discovered a series of large "under the bed" style storage boxes at Target and K-Mart. For prices ranging from $3 to $6, you can get a large clear plastic box with lid which can also be stacked in a compact space. Some of these boxes have holes under the hand grips to let air out. You can simply put some tape over these holes (after closing) to minimize air flow. I also use some bubble wrap on the bottom and sides of these containers to minimize jarring the lenses during access and moving boxes.

Over time, I've gotten enough bubble wrap to protect nearly each of the lenses in their baggies when put into longer term storage. Here again, I label each bubble wrapped item with what it is (e.g., lens type, mount) using masking tape and a marker. I use a couple of larger rubber bands to hold the bubble wrap around the lens (with front and rear lens caps). This trick makes it easier and safer to pack lenses closer together, making it easy to stack lenses in these clear boxes. The bubble packing can also be used during travel as lightweight extra protection, depending on your packing and travel approach.

Naturally, fungus can also grow in your camera bodies. Even more annoying, you can discover little mites crawling around in your viewfinder. Just try to ignore those little dots moving around in there! In short, it may not be a bad idea to protect your camera, with its focusing screens and glass prism surfaces and leather coverings. You may also want to store leather cases and the like separately to reduce the potential fungus sources.

Each box has all of the related camera items, so one box may be Kowa 6 SLR camera bodies and lenses, another will be bronica s2/EC, a box of nikon bodies and lenses, and so on. One box has longer T-mount and T4/TX mount lenses, of which I have a full set. I also recorded the serial numbers and data about each lens and camera item, including the lens filter sizes. You can use this information to ensure your camera insurance is adequate to cover losses too. The lens filter information is handy in highlighting trends or needs in filter adapters. You may also want to identify lenses with built-in lens hoods, and those which require lens hoods or compendium shades to cut flare.

Why UV Light Doesn't Work

Summary

Fungus Prevention Suggestions

rec.photo.misc
From: kingsnake [email protected]
[2] Repost: Re: Suggestions ...
Date: Mon Feb 16 1998

Two things favor mold and mildew the most:

1) Moisture. Silica gel can only be used once, without reactivation. Once the package containing the little pouches of anhydrous silica are opened, and you throw these pouches in a drawer to save them, they quickly saturate with moisture and soon are rendered 100% ineffective. For this reason, silica gel is almost always limited to use in hermetically sealed packages; you will seldom see it used elswhere.

OTOH:

Calcium chloride, available at most hardware stores, is better for a non-sealed environment, because you can tell when it's exhausted - the crystals will dissolve in their own moisture, leaving nothing but a solution in the container! The CaCl can be re-used by boiling the water away on a stove (it will NEVER evaporate at room temperature!). It is cheap, too - about $3 or $4 a pound at the most. It is used to keep mildew out of closets.

2) Air stagnation. Trapped air harbors moisture. Fungi can't live without moisture, so simply keeping the air moving may keep things dry enough to retard their growth. I would still use a dessicant, though. And keep your lenses =out= of the camera bag, it just stagnates the air and traps moisture within. Leave them on a shelf, with caps loosely in place, if at all. Dust is easy to deal with. --

If the wall safe is very large, a cheap $200 room dehumidifier may be the way to go , because it will:

a) heat the air
b) dry the air
c) circulate the air in it's vicinity.

--

Mildew is a fungus.

It is a myth that fungi need total darkness to thrive. True, the ultraviolet rays from the sun are detrimental to them, but they seem to thrive in open shade, even under artificial lighting. Most mushrooms are grown in the dark, simply because they don't really =need= light.

A light bulb may work for another reason; It provides enough heat to keep the relative humidity below 100%, which is what we really need, anyway.

Get some calcium chloride, and don't forget to put it an open container that holds water (or you'll have a mess)!
:-)

P.S.:

Oh, yeah, i forgot to mention that silica gel can be reactivatated in a 300 degree-F oven overnight, but it's hard to tell when it is spent. I opt for Calcium Chloride or Lithium Bromide, whichever is available. --

-John S. Bond kingsnake WA6FRN/6
kingsnake photography; a division of Gyro Gearloose Productions
http://www.humboldt1.com/~gyrgrls/ (link down as of 2/2003)

rec.photo.misc
From: "Kirk R. Darling" [email protected]
[1] Re: Suggestions to avoid mildew growth on lenses
Date: Mon Feb 16 1998

A ventilated cabinet with an incandescent light has been used for decades by photographers in the tropics, and I can testify myself that it worked for me in the Philippines. Simple, low tech, zero maintainance, as long as one can afford to keep a 60-watt lamp burning 8-10 hours a day.

[Ed. Note: useful cheap source for silica gel, used to keep camera gear and film dry in storage containers etc.]

rec.photo.equipment.35mm
From: [email protected] (JC17FL)
[1] Re: Silica gel source?
Date: Thu Jan 22 1998

Re: Silica gel source?

Try Wal-Mart - Crafts & Dried Flower dept.

$8.98 for a 2 pound jug with color indicating crystals.

Joseph.

From: Mark Hubbard 
Subject: Response to lens fungus
Date: 1998-03-19

Yes, it does help to leave the lens exposed to direct sunlight for several
hours a day over the course of at least several days. Success will depend
a lot on where you live; here in the Pacific Northwest and down in
Florida, our air is so humid that fungus and molds can be a major problem,
especially on leather cases and coverings (as well as lenses). The camera
technician I use is in Denver, where the air is dry and the sunlight is
strong (high altitude).  There, sunning a lens is a good way to kill the
fungus without having to take it apart for a complete cleaning. It is
always at least worth a try. Remember that fungus will grow on coatings
but most especially on pieces of dust. Keeping your lenses clean and
exposed to good air circulation (by using them!) are probably the best
defenses against fungus. Putting them away in a closet is probably the
worst thing you can do, especially stored with leather of any type (such
as in a leather case). Here in the northwest, for example, a leather purse
put in a closet undisturbed for a few months will grow a thick green coat
of mold. It isn't pretty. 

From: [email protected] (peters)
[1] Re: Mold in Lens
Date: Thu Apr 02 1998


>The lens can be disassembled and cleaned, but this is most definitely NOT a 
>do-it-yourself job.  Multiple element lenses require precise alignment and 
>spacing, often to tolerances not visible to the eye.  For something like this 
>I'd go with the lens manufacturer's repair service. 

If a person orders a couple of spanner wrenches from Fargo, and a few
rubber "plugs" to remove the front plastic "bezel" from the lens--and
if this is only a straight telephoto and not a zoom, it isn't too bad
a job.  No one would consider me gifted with a set of wrenches, but
I've cleaned several Canon  FD 50mm lenses which had fungus, and it
wasn't too bad a job.  And, fortunately, the fungus hadn't noticeably
damaged the glass.  Took less than an hour.   But a zoom with 13 or 14
elements may be a whole 'nother ball game.
                                bob     

Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998
From: Tom Resident [email protected]
Subject: Re: 20/2.8 fungus

Last year I had my 15mm fixed by Nikon service in Torrance. It took them 6 mos. instead 3-4 as promised. Problem was fungus on front element. The lens has to be shipped to the factory in Japan. Cost $199, which I think is standard for any repair regarding optics. You decide if it's worth the trouble.

From: "David Foy" nomail@this_address.please
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Alcohol as lens & camera cleaner???
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998

Alcohols are probably not harmful, but they are ineffective compared to, for example, dilute solutions of ammonia (Windex). Another tip, originally from repairman-lore and most recently passed along by Ed Romney on his web page, is a 50/50 mixture of hydrogen peroxide (from the drugstore) and household ammonia. It is a very effective remover of the "haze" so often mistaken for fungus, and Ed says it also removes fungus.

From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.marketplace
Subject: Re: fungus on lenses cureable?
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998

Michael Doan [email protected] wrote:

> I found what looks to be fungus on the inner elements of one of my
> lenses (50mm enlarger lense, Rodenstock).  Is this something that can be
> cleaned out?  What should I ask the repair person to check for? Coating
> damage? Will this thing have a high risk of growing back even after
> cleaning?
>
> Thanks for any info,
> Michael 

If the fungus is in the cement between elements the lens has to be completely disassembled cleaned, reassembled and if it has been there awhile the glass will be etched. Make sure its fungus and not film from darkroom gasses. Look at it with some kind of magnifier (a 50 mm lens from a 35mm Camera works well) and see if it looks like fine hairs growing or just fog. If fog it can easily be cleaned, if fungus, it may be cheaper to buy a new or used lens than try to fix that one. If its not too bad it won't matter for a while. 50 mm enlarging lenses are pretty cheap.

From: "K and J Darling" [email protected]
Newsgroups:rec.photo.marketplace
Subject: Re: fungus on lenses cureable?
Date: 17 Jul 1998

You can't repair the coating that the fungus has eaten (at least not within economic reason). You'd have to have a repairer take the lens apart to clean it and reseal it to prevent any further damage. Make sure you store your equipment someplace dry and ventilated and not too warm. An unventilated darkroom in a warm climate might be just the place for fungus--unless you do some enlarging every day so that the light keeps it from growing.

[Ed. note: posted fyi - beware ''cures'' that are worse than disease!]

From: "Richard Davis" [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.marketplace
Subject: Re: We have a fungus among us.
Date: 17 Jul 1998

Oh No! Not the FUNGUS!

It takes time to clear up a case of the lens fungus, so you need to decide what your time is worth.

If the fungus has been there a long time (years), it is possible that it has etched some of the coating or even the glass, in which case the lens is excellent for holding down stacks of 5x7 prints.

This topic has come up enough that you should search the DejaNews archive for previous notes.

Here are two ideas.

1. The basic technique is to completely disassemble the lens and to soak the parts in bleach or a commercial fungicide like tilex to remove the fungus. Anyone tried potassium ferricyanide? Some lens contact is needed to remove the fungus, which always means there is risk of damaging the lens or its coatings.

2. Prevention is important. Using air-tight containers, like zip lock freezer bags, and a desiccant (silica gel bags) are good ways to prevent fungus. Porter's camera sells desiccant bags, as do many other suppliers. (Remember the old Nikon plastic screw top plastic cases? They were wonderful.) If you store your lens in a dry, air-tight environment after cleaning it, the fungus should not come back.

From: DavidM [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.marketplace
Subject: Re: We have a fungus among us.
Date: 18 Jul 1998

> Here are two ideas.
>
> 1.  The basic technique is to completely disassemble the lens and to soak
> the parts in bleach or a commercial fungicide like tilex to remove the
> fungus.

This may clean the lens but will likely lead to further fungus contamination in the future.

Good quality lenses are assembled in 'clean rooms' where the air is micro-filtered. Opening up a lens introduces more fungus spores, which are always in the air all around us.

[Ed. note: Finally, a positive side of fungus ;-)]

From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.marketplace Subject: Re: fungus on lenses cureable?
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998

Michael Doan wrote:

> I found what looks to be fungus on the inner elements of one of my
> lenses (50mm enlarger lense, Rodenstock).  Is this something that can be
> cleaned out?  What should I ask the repair person to check for? Coating
> damage? Will this thing have a high risk of growing back even after
> cleaning?  

Ahhh fungus!! One of my favorite experiences in photo buying and selling was getting a box of 75 brand new, boxed tele, w.a. and zoom SLR lenses for 50 bucks (!) because they happened to have nasty internal fungus.

The fungus resembled spider webs and cleaned out very easily with lens cleaner & tissue once I disassembled the lens elements with my trusty spanner wrench. If yours is similar, the cure should be easy.

But there are other, nastier strains of fungus which do attack coatings and maybe even the lens cement itself, but I'm sure any competent repair guy would be able to hold the lens up to a light and tell you in a second exactly which type you have.

From: [email protected] (Colyn Goodson)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.marketplace
Subject: Re: fungus on lenses cureable?
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998

Fungus can be cleaned but if it has damaged the coating, you will have to have it recoated to repair.. If the damage to the coating is slight, you should not notice any effect... Fungus can grow back if you don't store the lens properly...

From: [email protected] (Paul Szilard)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.misc
Subject: Re: Fungus Removal
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1998

Stick it in direct sunlight for many hours. The sun's UV is reputed to kill fungus. As this is such an expensive lens, it may be worth while to contact a Leica repair outlet. They may be able to clean the elements and re-coat them. Hope you have a big cheque book!

Best of luck...

[email protected] (Nehandi) wrote:

>I have an old screwmount Leitz Elmar lense that has fungus in it, I was curious
>if anyone knows a technique of removing the fungus without damaging the soft
>coating on the inside of the lense elements. Thanks for your help.

[Editor's Note: I have not seen or heard this treatment recommended elsewhere, so I can't vouch for its safety or utility, but here it is for your information...]

Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1998
From: ""Sandy Barrie"" [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.misc
Subject: Re: Fungus Removal

The Best thing to remove any Fungus is

THYMOL (crystal form)

Put the Thymol Crystals in a Porcalin Dish, in a Box, with the Item to be defungused... It is best if the Box is Airtight... as Thymol is very dangerious to Humans (treats us a large pieces of Fungus)

Leave for a few days, or a week.... Fungus Killed..... dont forget to Air the item afterwards.

Works well for Albums, Prints, old negs and Slides...

Just Remember it is Dangerious.

You can get Thymol Crystals from most scientific chemial supply co.

Sandy Barrie.
Hon. Life Member, AIPP.
Valuer of Photography,
Appointed to the Federal Department of the Arts.
Researching Early Photographers.

PO. Box A488, Sydney South, NSW, 2000. Australia.
E-Mail [email protected]
fax. (02) 9261-8427

Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998
From: [email protected] (Rudy Garcia)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.misc
Subject: Re: Moldy lens

[email protected] (Mark Orton) wrote:

> I recently got out my old camera, which I haven't used for several  years, and
> made a rather startling discovery.  I have a zoom lens, and there's a  blob of
> stuff stuck on one of the interior lenses.  It looks like some kind of  mold.
>
> I'm wondering what to do about this.  Is this something a camera repair  shop
> could take care of easily?  Or is it time to start shopping for a new lens?
>
> And is there anything I should do to prevent the same thing from happening
> again?
>
> -Mark-

[Ed. note: last resort, caveat emptor/buyer beware, desperation... ;-)]
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999
From: Ellis Feldman [email protected]
Subject: [Rollei] fingerprints on lens

I have hesitated to state my own experience with lens surface problems because of the radical treatment i had success with.

I had a fungus deposits on the inner lens surface of a retina. The lens surface would not clean with all the ususal techniques.

Windex, water, alcohol, etc was to no avail. Finally i assumed the lens was pitted. I used a high powered loupe and whatever it was had organic patterns from pit to pit. Or was it pits . I do not know.

I could run my fingernail over the surface of the lens and feel vibrations from pits or ridges or whatever.

Frankly i was bewildered, but then knew why i picked up the retina so cheaply.

Finally I sprayed the surface with the product, "Fantastic" waited a few seconds, used an optical tissue and the spots were gone.

Then I took the element and washed it for a minutes in cold running water and dried. The running water was to wash away all vestiges of the Fantastic. The camera lens opening I sat in the sunlight for an entire day.

It is myunderstanding that ultra-viilet light kills fungus.

The treatment I used while successful obviously I cannot recommend.

I wonder if those etched fingerprints are just fungus that fed onn the fingerprint whorls and left there own little selves where the fingerprint oil was..

Please, please, i cannot in good faith recommend such treatment but only as a last resort. And please do not use to much Fantastic It should only be used as a last resort before you put the camera on a junkpile. But be careful with fungus infected cameras. It can be a true horror and introduce a plague into your work shop.

Fortunately i live in a fairly somewhat dry climate--at least part of the year.

Good luck but be prepared for the Fantastic to administer," the coup de gra to the lens." I hope I can sleep tonight after having suggested such brutality to a lens.

Respectfully,
ellis feldman

From Nikon Manual Mailing List:
Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999
From: [email protected]
Subject: RE: how do you prevent mold?

Hi, I also have wondered this for years and other than the obvious have found that a negative ion generator (also known as ionizer) is the only sure fire way to prevent mold. You can find small ones suitable for a photo gear closet at many places. The negative ions will destroy airborne bacteria, mold and just about any living thing in the air. Combined with a dehumidifier you can set up an area where you will never have to worry about our goodies losing the edge! BTW, tested in a 90% humidity area for many years.

Jon Mernyk
Mill Creek Audio

Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999
From: [email protected] (Tan)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.large-format
Subject: Re: Fungus on lenses

not that I am a microbiologist, but living in a tropical country does heighten one sensibilities with regards to this matter a little more......

>From what I have experienced, it really is a combination of

Humidity
Temperature
Lack of light (some kinds of light anyway)

I should think, being living organisms, fungi has to be present in the lens or can somehow get into your lens in the first place.

You basically have to bring down the storage humidity to 45-50% (good rule of thumb)

A pro I know puts all his equipment in a big safe bolted to the floor. He uses one of those dehumidifying rods called DamppChasers. He turns the rods on for a few hours a day. Well, it seems to work for him so far and he's been in business for like 15 years.

The more sensible way of storing lenses in humid environments is to use a dehumidying cabinet, where there is some electronic dehumidifier built in. These are very cheap to run. I am quite sure you can get these things in the US as well if you look hard enough. These are fairly cheap - two or three hundred bucks for a sizeable one (one that you can store three 'blads, 4 lenses, some backs and other accessories). If you are keen to buy the electronic unit on its own, I have seen them going for $500. you have to install these things into a fairly airtight cabinet (think of a fridge) yourself, and they are generally capable of drying the air in a rather large cabinet..

If you only have a few lenses you want stored, you might just want to buy an airtight container from the supermarket and chuck in some sillica gel. This method would however be bad for cameras that have leather coverings and so on. This is the cheapest solution that I know of. You can recycle all the sillica gel once they turn pink by cooking the water out of them.

A last method is similar to the DamppChaser solution. Use a LOW wattage light bulb (7W - 15W depending on the size of your cabinet) placed at the bottom of a reasonably tight cabinet (you still would want some small air gaps where the cabinet door and the cabinet box contacts). Don't place your equipment next to the bulb as it may get too hot. Place them on the upper shelves. What you want to do is to raise the internal temperature just a few degrees higher than the outside temperature. Get an electronic hygrometer (humidity meter) and place it inside so that you know quite accurately what the humidity is - the electronic ones tend to be more consistently accurate then the mechanical ones that I have seen here, but they should all be recalibrated from time to time. Good to place it on your upper most shelf. The military here stores a lot its pricey optical devices this way and they have never had complains about fungus. This is a good trick to keep your clothes closet free of mildew as well. And then it gives you some lighting too. Oh, if the inside gets too dry, you might set it on some kind of timer so that the bulb is turned on only a few hours a day. The idea is to keep things within the desired humidity range.

I have stored some bulky things in a mid sized cardboard box using the lightbulb trick (I use a low wattage compact fluoro bulb) - turning it on a few hours a day, and things have looked fine after a year. I can maintain humidity within 45 to 50 percent. Mind you, this is a paper box. Not too shabby for a cheapo solution I'd say.

MERRY CHRISTMAS!

Greg [email protected] typed:

>What is the cause of fungal growth on lense elements -
>absence of light? humidity? changing climate? What is the
>best way to store lenses when not in use to prevent this
>expensive problem?

Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000
From: "Mac Breck" [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: How to store photo equipment?

I keep all my stuff in Lowepro bags in a cool dry place, with about 6 or so bags of desiccant in each bag. All lenses (except my 300 f/2.8 are stored vertically, so oil does not get on the diaphragm blades; a problem for 55 f/2.8 AIS Micro Nikkors). Never had a problem with fungus.

I did have a problem with the leatherette snouts of my Nikon FM cases peeling. I never used them, and had them in an upstairs room where it gets really hot in the summer. After 20 years, I went to give them to a buddy who was buying one of my Nikon FM2's, and the snouts looked like Hell. I keep the case backs on the bodies all the time (except then they're on a tripod) to protect/keep my hands off the bodies, and give me a better grip on the bodies.

Light seals/mirror foam goes bad after 25 years or so. Just get them replaced when they go bad. I accidentally tore the mirror foam in my 1978 FM recently, and had the foam replaced. I was using a tiny paint brush to get a couple stubborn specs of dust off the bottom of the focusing screen, and got the brush caught on the foam. It must have been going bad to have torn so easily.

Mac

"Jim" [email protected] wrote

> As it turns out, I'm getting quite a collection of cameras and lenses.
> Some of the gear gets used quite often and others...well lets just say
> that they don't get out of the closet much. Having seen how some
> equipment deteriorates if left in a closet and not used (ie. lenses
> develop fungus,  light seals fall apart, etc) I was wondering how some
> of you store your gear when you know it won't get used for awhile.
>
> I'd really like to protect my investment and keep my gear in top
> shape.

Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000
From: "Tim Merrick" [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Identifying fungus

Hi,

If a lens has fungus what does it appear like, both at an early stage and advanced state.

I recently bought a black 55mm Mamiya lens for a C330 and it has very, very fine filaments of something on some of the area of the internal element, it almost appears like fluff fibres on the surface of the glass and is so fine it is extremely difficult to see. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks,

Tim

[ed. note: separating a fungus infected lens out and putting it in a zip lock bag with silica gel dryer may help arrest spread of fungus not just in that lens, but in the rest of your collection?...]
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000
From: "Londo" [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Identifying fungus

Fungus is like AIDS for lens. They are usable for a while, if you wipe them, but they get worse and worse and, indeed, they tend to affect other lens, probably through spores. If you have an infected lens, keep it apart from the other gear and get it serviced (autoclave process). Or put it in the bin (and explain to your wife why you spent all that good money a few weeks earlier).

Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000
From: "David Foy" [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Identifying fungus

Bob M's Medium Format pages have a good overall discussion on fungus, which is not a subject on which there is a lot of agreement. Here's a starting point: http://www.smu.edu/~rmonagha/bronfaults.html

Others in this thread have noted that wiping is temporary. I have tried, and succeeded, with soaking the glass (not the metal!) in baths of a hydrogen peroxide-household ammonia mixture. Mix just before use, 50/50. This solution is from Ed Romney and is not original with me. I also had good luck with household vinegar. Some claim success with high-intensity UV, a sunlamp I suppose. I dont' have a sunlamp so haven't tried it.

--

Date: Sun, 23 May 1999
From: "toby" [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Fungus?

Fungus has a very clear branch-like structure, so this is most probably something else. If the lens was stored in a very hot place it is possible that some of the lubricant atomized and was laid down on surface of one of the elements. I have seen this a number of times, and had to return a Nikkor 8mm f2.8 fisheye with this problem because Nikon said it couldn't be cleaned! In usual cases the lens has to be disassembled and cleaned. this could easily run you more than the price of the lens. If it is very minor the effect will be negligible, but this type of problem will reduce contrast in your pictures. If I were you I would bring this to the attention of the seller and ask to have it cleaned.

Toby

From: "David Foy" [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Identifying fungus
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000

Romney actually recommends the ammonia-peroxide mixture for haze, which he says most people think is fungus. I've used it on what I believe are atmospheric deposits (tobacco, etc). I'm not sure he distinguishes between haze and fungus, and I don't feel like going to his web site to look right now. I believe you are, as so often, right about this. The ammonia-peroxide mixture is in essence a good glass cleaner, rather than a fungicide.

"AuctionFan" [email protected] wrote in message

> >From: "David Foy" [email protected]
>
> >I have tried, and
> >succeeded, with soaking the glass (not the metal!) in baths of a hydrogen
> >peroxide-household ammonia mixture. Mix just before use, 50/50. This
> >solution is from Ed Romney and is not original with me.
> >I also had good luck
> >with household vinegar. Some claim success with high-intensity UV, a sunlamp
> >I suppose. I dont' have a sunlamp so haven't tried it.
>
> You have to remember that fungus are very much like plants.  Eliminate moisture
> and they don't survive.
>
> Apart from that, I would consider the ammonia in the solution you  mentioned to
> be more beneficial to fungus than harmful.  If anything, i believe it is the
> hydrogen peroxide which is most responsible for killing the fungus.
>
> I am surprised to not see a favorite fungus killing formula among painters and
> gardeners:  Mix 1 gallon water with 1 pint Clorox and 2 oz. liquid detergent.
> This kills fungus and removes it from walls and other areas.  I haven't tried
> it on lenses.  I usually just wipe them clean and the fungus does not return.
>
> AF.

From: "Michael L. Pipkin, M.D." [email protected]
Newsgroups: sci.astro.amateur
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000
Subject: Re: Fungus...

I don't recall seeing this topic in the astro newsgroup but it is a frequent question in the photography newsgroups. Cleaning mirrors is a delicate business even when just dealing with dust and atmospheric crud.

If your scope is like the 102mm Meade I used to have, the front cell unscrews and you can clean both surfaces of the corrector plate. I would use 91% isopropyl alcohol (not "rubbing" alcohol, which has lanolin in it). If the corrector is coated (I think all versions of this scope are at least single coated) the fungi may have damaged the coating and nothing can be done for that. Fungi eventually etch the glass itself.

The rear cell unscrews also but I don't know how to safely clean an SCT mirror (a Newtonian mirror can be removed and flushed with mild soap, then alcohol). Don't touch a first surface mirror with ANYTHING; a few spots won't degrade it much optically but trying to polish it will produce fine scratches that will seriously damage it. Likewise, don't touch the secondary mirror.

Finally, some photographers have reported that direct sunlight will kill fungi and they just point a lens into the sun briefly (no camera body mounted). I would be reluctant to do this with an SCT because of the concentration of heat on the secondary mirror. You could expose the individual components to sunlight, which should be safe.

Michael

[email protected] wrote

>Hello Astrolovers,
>
>
>       I am in deep need of a piece of advice... I was given a 102mm
>Meade Schmidt-Cassegrain Reflector, which primary use was terrestrial
>observation. As the telescope was (and still is) in a tropical area,
>and was kept closed in the case without any Silica or similar chemical,
>I have spotted some small fungus infiltration points in the lenses,
>and in the primary mirror.
>
>       What question is: What should I do?
>       Is it better just to keep the scope from now on in a dry place,
>let the fungus die and live with the remains in the lenses and mirror?
>       Or is there some way I can try to expel them?
>       Is the process they use to remove fungus from camera lenses safe
>for scopes?
>       Any other ideas?

From: Kirk [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2000
Subject: Re: Lens fungus probability

[email protected] says...

> I moved from a very dry climate (Salt Lake City, Utah) to a humid one
> (Portland, Oregon).  I have some lenses that are expensive enough that
> I hope not to have to replace them.  What is the likelihood of
> developing lens fungus in a climate that hovers around 45% to 55%
> humidity (indoors)?  And what can I do to reduce that risk?
>
> I've tried those silica crystal packs inside my camera bag, but they
> change from blue to pink in about a day, so I doubt their long-term
> effectiveness.

That's not humid. Humid is 90 percent or more for weeks running. Humid is when you get mildew on your living room walls that looks like mildew in the shower. Southeast Asia during monsoon seasons, or even Florida can be like that.

If you don't keep your cameras at the bottom of your dirty clothes hamper or in your bathroom, you shouldn't have any problem at all. When I was in Hawaii (for several years) I took no precautions at all. When I was in the Philippines, I did, to some extent, during monsoon season.

But generally, if you're taking your cameras out frequently and shooting with them, mildew is not a problem. Mildew hates the sun, and it doesn't take but small, fairly frequent doses of sunlight to keep mildew at bay.

If you're really worried, the easiest method is to put it in a cabinet with a low-wattage incandescent bulb. The light and heat will keep things dried out. But you shouldn't have to worry anywhere in the continental US except some places on the Gulf Coast.

From: "Ricardo Benites" [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000
Subject: Re: Silica Gel

In fact you could do like I did and ask the manager of a shoe store if he/she would save the little packets for you.

I have so much now that I give it out to members of my camera club at the meetings.

Rick

From Leica Mailing List:
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000
From: "Bob Walkden" [email protected]
Subject: [Leica] Fungus in viewfinder

Hi,

I'm surveying the market before buying my first M camera+lens. In a store today I saw a pretty good M4 at a very good price. The problem with the camera is that there is fungus in the viewfinder - makes rather a nice delicate in-built landscape of winter trees round the edges of the focusing rectangle.

In general is this fixable, and at what sort of price in USD or GBP?

Thanks,

Bob

From Hasselblad Mailing List:
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000
From: "Dr. Ulrik Neupert" [email protected]
Subject: Re: Hasselblad in the Tropes

Moin,

I used my Hasselblad 500 cm in the Rainforest of Ecuador for one week without caring for humidity and it gave no problems. I tried to store the films as cool and dry as possible. You may want to store your camera in a container with silica gel to prevent the growth of fungus if you spend more time in such a climate. Some insect propellants are agressive chemicals that can attac the surface of your camera, pay attention to that. Regarding the flat light, you may wish to use fill-in flash sometimes and a film with very saturated colours could be useful. Filters shouldn't make much of a difference (?), I just use them to protect the front elements.

Regards,

Ulrik

...

From hasselblad Mailing List:
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Hasselblad in the Tropes

[email protected] writes:

Hi,

I am planning to go to Sri Lanka soon. Hot and humid. Any recommendations on using my Hasselblad down there?

One more question: Down there the sky is often covered leading to a very flat light. What do you recommend as filters under these circumstances?

Thanks and regards,

Marc

Really depends on how long you're going to be there for and where you'll be staying. If you're staying in A/C facilities, everything will get the chance to dehumidify overnight, but be careful not to take ice-cold cameras and lenses out into the heat and humidity as you'll have moisture condensing everywhere, inside and out. Put them in the sunlight or under a lamp or hairdryer (on low!) first. You'd really have to be in the high humidity (like in a jungle or rainforest) for several months to have any detrimental affect such as fungus growth. Walking around in a generally humid atmosphere but where the equipment gets air circulation and is exposed to some UV light, there's really not much to worry about, especially since you don't have electronics inside. The use of rechargeable silica gel is a waste unless you buy the large metal cannisters and have continual access to an oven to recharge them. Those little packets and small tins soak their fill in minutes to hours depending on the humidity. If you're there for a long time, and not staying in A/C, some type of drybox, like a large Coleman cooler or huge Tupperware box, with a dessicant inside, is a good idea.

From hasselblad Mailing List:
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000
From: Peter Klosky [email protected]
Subject: Re: Hasselblad in the Tropes

This has been discussed here before, and your comment is right on target. Film should not be kept in a cooler in the minutes before use, but should be allowed to come up to temperature over a period of perhaps six hours before being loaded. Even carrying your cameras in a car which is very cold with A/C will yield trouble if you try to pop out of the car and use the camera right away. Eyeglasses wearers who walk in cold climates know this well; we have to heat up our glasses before they will work indoors. What I do when I travel by car is keep the camera in a warm part of the car, such as the rear of the car.

Be careful not to take ice-cold cameras and lenses out into the heat and humidity as you'll have moisture condensing everywhere, inside and out.

From: "Rod" [email protected]
Newsgroups: sci.astro.amateur
Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000
Subject: Re: where to get desicants - another question

Kenn,

The Activa, 'Flower Drying Art', flower drying gel I picked up at the hobby store has an indicator in it that turns from blue to pink when exhausted. It just dawned on me that I see a large-crystal version of silica-gel every time I go into the microwave equipment room at work. The microwave transmission feedlines at the facility where I work, are kept pressurized with air passed through a large cylinder of silica-gel. The crystals are blue and change color when exhausted--this stuff would certainly be easier to package than the fine flower drying beads. I know the stuff is purchased in bulk, because I've seen them refill the container on occasion. It must come from one of the large tower manufacturers like Rohn, I'll check and report back next week.

Rod

Kenn Lynch wrote

>Been toying with this myself for a while for the inside of a CCD
>camera.
>
>Instead of the coffee filter I have been contemplating using the
>hepa grade disposable paper face masks available "free" in most
>hospitals now a days.  Seems like maximum porosity with a guaranteed
>filtration rate and possibly some additional durability.
>
>But then again maybe a hepa grade is actually less than the standard
>coffee filter at that? Anyone have any idea
>
>
>I've yet to locate a local bulk source of the indicating variety
>(cobalt cloride) but you can usually get plenty of the small pouches
>of the "vanilla" variety from any shoe store.
>
>These all do shed dust as they age though, it might be good idea to
>throw a bit of masking tape in the pouch to catch some of the loose
>dust.
>
>Kenn Lynch
>
>
>
>On Fri, 11 Aug 2000, TP ONeill [email protected]
>wrote:
>
>>I looked at some of the 'Flower Drying' crystals. They seemed
>>extremely fine. How would you "package" it to make sure the
>>stuff doesn't leak out, and yet be able to absorb the moisture?
>>
>>I thought about using paper coffee filters.
>>
>>Somone else suggested nylon stocking. Will this be sufficient?
>>
>>Awhile back someone said a 35mm photo film canister fits in the
>>eyepiece end of a refractor nicely. A few holes in the bottom
>>allows the silicon to keep the inside of the refractor dry.
>>
>>Comments please.
>>
>>> I got some silica gel at a Hobby Lobby store, and at one time Wal Mart also
>>> carried some. Look for a store that sells craft supplies and ask for the
>>> flower drying 'stuff'. The brand I got is a 1 1/2 pound container of silica
>>> gel packaged by Activa Products, Inc, and is called 'Flower Drying Art'. 1
>>> 1/2 pounds is enough to last a lifetime.
>

From: [email protected] (Herm)
Newsgroups: sci.astro.amateur
Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000
Subject: Re: where to get desicants - another question

this the source of industrial dessicants:

[ed. note: page was at http://www.hammond.thomasregister.com/olc/hammond/hamlab.htm
availability has been restricted as of 2/2003)]

Herm

From: Kruger Kid [email protected]
Newsgroups: sci.astro.amateur
Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000
Subject: Re: where to get desicants

http://www.desiccare.com/

Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000
From: R. Saylor [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Where to buy Silica Gel?

[email protected] (Bryan K.) wrote:

>I keep stuff dry, I should buy silica gel right? Where can I get this
>stuff, and how often do I need to replace it?

You can get it in arts & crafts stores. It is used for drying flowers. It doesn't ever need to be replaced, merely reactivated by drying in a 250 degree oven.

Richard

Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000
From: "eMeL" [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Where to buy Silica Gel?

As it has already been suggested - stuff for drying flowers at the arts and crafts store. My 2 cents is to go to an 'arts and crafts supermarket' (such as Michael's) because the stuff there is much cheaper than in many small/more refined arts and crafts stores.

Michaels

...

Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000
From: Robert Kirkpatrick [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Where to buy Silica Gel?

Go to http://www.actiongear.com/

Do a search for silica gel. These include an indicator. You don't replace it, you reactivate it with your kitchen oven. Directions are on the package.

"Bryan K." wrote:

> I keep stuff dry, I should buy silica gel right? Where can I get this
> stuff, and how often do I need to replace it?

Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000
From: "Joe" [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Where to buy Silica Gel?

KEH (product code expired as of 2/2003, check site)...

sci.astro.amateur
From: "Rod" [email protected]
[1] Re: Desicant
Date: Tue Oct 24 2000

Eric,

Try this place. http://www.desiccare.com/homeprod.htm

Rod

sci.astro.amateur
From: Kruger Kid [email protected]
[1] Re: Desicant
Date: Wed Oct 25 2000

Hydorsorbent Products (The white stuff, packaged in a container with a indicating card.)

http://www.dehumidify.com

Just litter - Yes, this is Silica gel cat litter (The clear stuff)

http://www.justlitter.com/

McMaster-Carr (Bulk, white, indicating blue and assorted canisters)

http://www.mcmaster.com/

Eric Sinn wrote:

> Does anyone know where I can get some desicant to help keep the scope dry
> during storage?  The color changing type would be preferable for me. 

Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Where to buy Silica Gel?

I get mine at an arts & crafts store, A.C. Moore. I think it was something like $6.00 for about two pounds of the stuff. I make my own packs out of high quality paper towels. Keep packs with all my equipment.

Dennis

From Rollei Mailing List:
Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000
From: Richard Knoppow [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Rollei] Fungus question re: Rollei 2.8F

you wrote:

>Richard, 
> 
>Is it possible to get fungus on shutter surfaces? I was always under the 
>assumption that fungus needed organic material to live, ie: the resin used 
>to bond lenses, but a metal shutter?

Fungus lives on all sorts of things. It can feed on material in the air or on oil residues or paint residues. The fact is that it can thrive on glass surfaces and etch them. Fungus can be found in the cement of cemented lenses but is also found on the surfaces exposed to the air, it does not need a culture medium to grow.

Fungus growth is encouraged by high humidity conditions. One way to get rid of it is to dessicate the fungus infested object so that the fungus goes into an inactive state. It can then be brushed or blown off and the surfaces cleaned.

Unfortunately, real fungicides are hard to find and are all very toxic to humans. Ammonia or bleach is only modestly effective, as anyone who has dealt with fungus growth in a shower knows.

The spores are microscopic so can hide in many places and stay viable for years.

There is a fair amount of material on fungus on the _Conservation On Line_ site at http://palimpsest.stanford.edu

----
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles,Ca.
[email protected]

From Nikon MF Mailing List;
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000
From: "Mel Hughes" [email protected]
Subject: Fungus in a 105

Rich,

I have an AF 105 which had fungus growing in the rear element due to my ignorance about storing lenses in humid climates. I finally had to send it back to Nikon (NYC) where they dismantled the lens, cleaned all the other elements, and replaced the rear element. The particular crop of fungus I grew in the lens was just as William Sampson said earlier, the crystalline structures had deeply etched the interior surface of the rear element. From the rear of the lens, looking into a bright light, the fungus looked like ice crystal. I think they charged about $100 to do the rebuild with a new element but that was at least five years ago. I was not particularly pleased with their work. Since the overhaul, the lens has always felt rough to focus, as if small bearings are missing or misaligned. Also, I have had continuing difficulties with the CPU in the lens communicating with F4, N90s, and D-1 bodies. It works fine for Manual Focusing but sometimes lacks the ability to communicate F stop information to the camera bodies. Gremlins...

Depending on the shape of your lens, you may do better financially replacing it and using it for experimentation.

Mel Hughes

From Rollei Mailing List:
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001
From: Richard Urmonas [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Rollei] Re: Forget politics, need ansd help with glass plates!

> Amd what about mildew?  I also inherited a Goerz Anschutz that looks to be
> OK (if I can figure out how to work the FP shutter) but the leather case it
> came in is mildewed, and I would like to kill the fungus and save the case.
> Any help with that would be appreciated.

I have had some success with Eucalyptus oil. You want a pure oil (often it is sold diluted). The best is the type which is made from mature tree trimming, but in USA you probably wont get a choice. Give the case a good coat of the oil. It should not harm the leather (as it is an oil) but it will dissolve many glues so careful around any felt linings etc. I then leave it for a day or so then give it another coating. Leave another day or so. If it has been successful the fungus should now wash off with a good quality saddle soap. Finally apply some leather conditioner. Eucalyptus oil is reasonably safe to use, just dont get it in any cuts or your eyes, and dont sniff the bottle.

I would offer to send you some but the there are all sorts of funny regulations that apply to posting such things internationally.

Richard

--------------------------------------------------------------
Richard Urmonas
[email protected]

From Hasselblad Mailing List:
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001
From: Marc James Small [email protected]
Reply to: [email protected]
Subject: New Zeiss Fungus Treatment

Forwarded from the Binocular List:
_________________________________

There is a new fungus treatment available from Zeiss Oberkochen. I have no further ordering information.

Fungus Cleaning Agent "Fungusreiniger NEU"

Germicidal effect, not effective in cleaning. Dilute the agent with ethyl alchohol, apply with cotton swab, allow it to act for one hour or more, clean the surface using normal cleaning solution. Not poisonous but keep away from food & avoid contact with skin. Can be ordered from Carl Zeiss Oberkochen, dept. KuDi.

100ml bottle, INR 0117.362
500ml bottle, INR 0117.361
1000ml bottle, INR 0117.360

___________________________________

Marc

[email protected]

From Nikon MF Mailing List:
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000
From: "Mel Hughes" [email protected]
Subject: Fungus/Storage

After I discovered the fungus in my AF 105mm f/2.8 Micro as well as in an AF 50mm f/1.8 lens, I sent the 105 in for service. The expense to repair the 50mm would have far exceeded its value. I also wrote a letter to Nikon asking why this had happened to two AF lenses but not to a small group of MF lenses stored in the same manner. They tactfully replied that mold and fungus spores are literally everywhere. They suggested a controlled environment for storing lenses when not in use. This environment should have low humidity. They went on to add a disclaimer to my lens overhaul. It seems that once a lens is exposed to fungus, once the spores have been able to invade the interior of a lens, that even replacing elements in the relatively controlled environment of their workshops was no guarantee that the fungus wouldn't strike again.

That was the extent of the suggestions Nikon was willing to make. I started researching to see if I could find a way to store my unused cameras, lenses and accessories in such a way that they were reasonably protected but not inaccessible. Several years ago, this same discussion was hashed over on the "Big" Nikon list as well.

I pared this information down to a system that is only slightly uncomfortable to use. For equipment I am not carrying with me, I store each lens (with caps on,) filters, or camera body in a Ziplock freezer bag with a rechargeable container of silica gel. The air in the bag squeezed out, the bag sealed, then placed within another freezer bag. These bags are laid into a larger, heavy plastic container (usually Rubbermaid or Tupperware) with another, larger rechargeable container of silica gel. When full, the container is sealed. One day, I am going to replace all these smaller boxes with a large, Penguin equipment box.

Equipment I carry daily lives in my small Domke shoulder bag. Lenses not mounted on camera bodies are stored in the two freezer bag/silica gel manner unless I am actively shooting. Then, all equipment is taken out of the bags and placed in the camera bag for quick access. After use, unmounted lenses go back into the bags.

About once a month, I open each bag and container and bake the silica gel overnight at about 300 degrees F in the oven. I have a few containers that are nothing more than old glass salt shakers filled with silica gel. These non-metallic containers can be put in the microwave for increments of 30 seconds until the silica gel turns from pink to dark blue, indicating the moisture has been removed. After a 20 -30 minute cool-down, they are ready to use again.

I found the majority of the silica containers I use at Light Impressions and L.L. Rue( http://www.lightimpressionsdirect.com http://www.rue.com ,) although there are many other sources on the web. Although it is a bit tedious, I have had no further fungal incidents. This living in a house that has no central air conditioning in the Southeastern United States. Summers here are very humid.

Other suggestions:

Never store any photographic equipment in a leather case unless it lives in an air-conditioned, humidity controlled environment. And then, only if you bought it new. Leather seems to be a prime breeding ground for all types of nasties.

Periodically examine your equipment. Not just look at it. Look closely. Examine lens interiors in a bright light. Look carefully at focusing screens and mirrors. Look at your filters in direct and angled light, examining their surface. If things are kept clean and relatively dry, you will probably have no problems.

There are many other ways to keep equipment dry and clean. Some folks have built or adapted small cabinets with nothing more than a low wattage light bulb running constantly to keep the humidity down. Lenses and such are stored on shelves over the light. If you think you might have a problem, do a little research on the web and you will probably find a pretty simple solution.

Since adopting the desiccant and bag storage, I have had no further incidents with fungus. So, even with the continued maintenance, all the materials I used have cost considerably less than the cleaning or replacing of one Nikkor 105 Micro. Also, I keep in contact with the things I have. Inventory is much easier. Putting my hands on that filter I need is much faster.

Mel Hughes
Chattanooga, TN
mailto:[email protected]

From MF Nikon Mailing LIst:
Date: Mon, 7 May 2001
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Fungus

Mark,

Hold the lens up to the light and look inside it. Fungus usually appears and spidery, string-like deposits on an inside lens surface. In extreme cases it may cover the entire surface of a lens element. I have an old Nikkor 35/2.8 like that. I bought it for next to nothing because of the fungus and intended to try cleaning it myself. Unfortunately, the front retaining ring is very stubborn, and I haven't been able to get behind the front element to do the cleaning. I've shot with the lens anyway. The photos are definitely a bit soft compared to the 35/2.0 I have. For cleaning recipes, check the archives at the NikonRepair list.

William Sampson
http://hometown.aol.com/wdshpbiz/AImod.html

From Nikon MF Mailing List;
Date: Mon, 7 May 2001
From: Nikon Cameras [email protected]
Subject: Re: fungus?

For some reason or other, fungus seems to grow well in dark, humid places, without much air circulation. But given these conditions, it grows especially well in leather cases. AVOID storing cameras, lenses, filters, and binoculars in their leather cases. I had some Pentax binoculars and a Yashica twin-lens-reflex in leather cases attacked, along with Tiffen filters stored in a leather Tiffen pouch. I have several Nikon rangefinder cameras. One I put in a fireproof safe (Nikon SP with f/1.4 lens) in the leather case the camera came in. Fortunately, about 3 weeks later I removed the camera from the safe and there was fungus growing all over the leather case, but no damage was done yet to the camera or lens. The case was actually covered inside and out with a white growth and appeared white instead of brown. Ideal storage would probably be in a glass-enclosed curio cabinet with sunshine bathing the equipment to keep dust off and to give fungus no place to grow. Personally, I store them in Tamrac cases except for my Nikonos cameras (stored in a aluminum case in foam) and my Widelux and Yashica, which are stored in a locked closet with plastic lining under and over them, but not surrounding them.

...

Date: Wed, 30 May 2001
From: Simon Freidin [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Fungus - how to remove?

I use 50:50 solution of Hydrogen Peroxide and Windex. Thin layers of fungus will come off in a minute or two, developed fungus needs soaking for a few hours. Clean off with a cotton bud while lens is still moist. This won't work on really aggressive fungus, but is definitely worth trying

Roland wrote:

> Is there anything that will get rid of fungus from uncoated glass
> completely?
>
> Roland

From: [email protected] (Edward Clayton)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.large-format
Subject: Re: Fungus - how to diagnose?
Date: 16 Aug 2001

From: Marv Soloff [email protected]>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Cleaning Fungus off Lens Elements
Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 

There was a thread on this NG a couple of weeks ago about cleaning
fungus off lenses.  I found this short post in a website called the 
"Camera Repair Resource Guide". You are on your own if you try this.

>From Camera Repair Resource Guide, maintained by R. Lee Hawkins:
[email protected]> 

 How can I clean fungus off lens elements?

        One excellent cleaner for fungus (Olympus factory uses this)
        is Ponds Cold Cream (or facsimile).  Really.  Rub a tiny dab 
        into the lens with your finger tip YES FINGER TIP, then clean 
        off with denatured alcohol.  If fungus "spider web" remains, 
        reapply cream and rub harder, clean with alcohol again.  I know 
        this sounds funny, but this is how the FACTORY SERVICE STATIONS 
        ARE TRAINED TO DO IT!  Do this at your own risk, the faint at 
        heart should not attempt this.

        Thanks to: John Hermanson [email protected]>

Regards,

Marv


From: [email protected] (Spoefish)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Fungus on lens elements - and luck
Date: 16 Nov 2001 

> >  How can I clean fungus off lens elements?

I am a mycologist - actually a plant pathologist, but I am afraid that
nothing I have learned has ever been of much use in dealing with the
fungus-on-the-lens problem.  I really think a lot of it comes down to
luck.  Recently I bought an enlarger that came with a 50mm f/2.8
Nikkor (the Nikkor was an unexpected suprise so no complaints in any
case).  Arrrgh, the lens had a lot of fungal growth when I looked
through it.  When I cleaned it carefully with Sparkle and lens tissue,
it turned out that all of the fungus was on the outside of the rear
element and cleaned off with no signs of damage.  Looked at the rear
surface at 25x and saw no signs of etching or pitting - felt that I
was very lucky.  But now always so - if there if fungal growth in the
balsam that cements the elements together you are pretty well sunk.  I
think there are a lot of variables - what fungus species (never had
time to isolate these and try to culture and identify them), what
coatings, what type of glass, etc.  My advice is to clean the lens
very carefully with something like Sparkle and lens tissue - yeaaaa if
you are lucky, too bad if there is etching or fungal growth between
cemented elements.  As far as I know there is really not much you can
do once the glass is etched.  If it is the coating that is damaged I
guess you could polish through it, but it depends on the value of the
lens.  Most important is how you store your lenses - I find that
ziplock bags with the air evaculated - and with some sort of drying
agent inside (indicator Dri-rite or some other indicator absorbant
works well) - on my really good lenses (2.8 Nikkor PC, etc.) I double
bag in ziplock freezer bags and then store in ammo cans.  Also depends
where you live and how damp your  storage area is.  Florida is
terrible, Arizona seems great.  I get very fussy and go through a lot
of ziplock bags and absorbant, but in 10 years have not have any
optical equipment with fungus growth - in MD, and in a damp old house.

 Good luck.


Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 
Subject: [HUG] Fungus on Lenses and Films
From: "Peter G. Walker" [email protected]>
To: Ken & Shell McC [email protected]>, [email protected]>

Ken,

In any place where the humidity is regularly above 60% (e.g. Brisbane),
fungus is a problem, not just on lenses but, even worse, on processed film.
There is a type of fungus that eats film emulsion.   The only solution is to
store film and camera gear in dry cabinets.  I live in Bangkok which also
has high humidity.   Now, all my film archives are in dehumidifying cabinets
(http://www.toyoliving.co.jp/e/index.html).   The cabinets hold the humidity
at 35%.   Fungus can not survive in such dryness.

Before I heard about this problem, I kept my films in open albums on an open
book shelf.  Some of my earlier work ended up with black dots and black
lines from fungus.  The fungus has been stopped by the dehumidifier but I'll
never be able to repair or clean the damaged transparencies.

Regards
Peter

Email: [email protected]
URL: http://www.peterwalker.com

Ken & Shell McC at [email protected] wrote:

> Peter,
> 
> Thanks very much for all that info, I'm taking it with me so I don't forget
> anything.
> 
> I didn't even know lenses can have fungus but now you mention it, with all
> this humidity, I can see your point. At least now I know what to look for
> ...........thanks again.
> 
> Kind Regards,
> 
> Ken McConville.
> 


To: [email protected]>
From: "Kelvin" [email protected]>
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 
Subject: Re: [camera-fix] Fungus in Lens....help!

The lens system is made of:

1. Zoom focus helicoid (in this case)
2. Focus helicoid
3. iris / diaphram mechanicsm
4. Lens groups.

Typically, there is one group before and one after the diaphram.

You have to first know which element it is you need to clean.

If it lies in the front group, undo the dress ring (the one with the
writing) with a old rubber furniture cup. Then unscrew the front
group. You may need a spanner wrench tool for this.

If it's in the rear group, unscrew the rear group.

Once it's out, determine if it's on the rear element of the group. If so,
just cleaning that may be enough. If not, you will have to open up the
group. To do so, mark where the notches are aligned with a marker before
opening, so you can preserve alignemtn.
Lay it out so you know which way the glass faces as it comes out.
Watch out for spacer rings.

Reassemble in reverse order.

Similar idea for rear group.

You should not have to open the focus/diaphram mech.

Remember the maxim to keep the amount of disassembling you have to do to
minimum.

To clean the fungus, ideally use a compound 50:50 mixture of H202 and
ammonia.
This is said to clean and kill the fungal spores which may recur.

But frankly, I just use windex and find it quite adequate. Haven't had
fungus come back.


----- Original Message -----
From: [email protected]>
To: [email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 6:10 AM
Subject: [camera-fix] Fungus in Lens....help!


> Hi List:
>
> I have a Rikenon 28-70zoom.
> Looks like it has been infected by fungus.
>
> Yes, I have read the Toomas's page on fungus and it looks similar to the
photographs seen there.
>
> I am planning on cleaning it.
>
> I need your advice
>
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Regards,
> CRG

To: [email protected]
From: Jim Brokaw [email protected]>
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 
Subject: Re: [camera-fix] paint for lenses

kelvin at [email protected] wrote:

> Jim
> 
> Are these white areas in actuality, bits of fungus? If so, you may be
> better off
> just treating it with the h202/ammonia solution mentioned and at best
> touching it
> up with some flat black enamel.
> 
> Not worth the while re-painting.
> 
I suspect they might be fungus colonies although they appear more like mold,
almost. Little almost circular areas ranging from pinhead to perhaps 1/8",
although as this is a 8mm fisheye lens the size and curvature of the element
might be distorting the actual size of the spots. I'm thinking I'll strip
the paint on there with some kind of remover, starting with lacquer thinner
and progressing to actual paint remover. The piece is glass, so I would hope
it won't be damaged... although I don't know about the coating. Then I'll
clean with acetone, and paint with black model-car paint, or a good black
paint. The surfaces that are painted are what would correspond to the sides
of the element, but remember that it has a large-diameter domed front and an
almost hemispherical inner surface, so there is a broad band of black
surface that is almost the 'bottom' of the lens. Its as if you took a
convex-concave lens and then warped it about 75 degrees backon itself. This
is the element that gathers that 180 degree fisheye view. I'm sure the black
paint is to prevent an incredible flare problem.
-- 
Jim Brokaw

To: [email protected]
From: kelvin [email protected]>
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 
Subject: Re: [camera-fix] Fungus


Martin

Lenses should best be kept at RH levels between 40 and 65%. Too dry, and everything
dries out and cracks... lubricants harden etc.

Too damp and well, fungus.

What sort of dehumidifiers do you use, and are you completely aware of the
RH level even with this in operation? 

Sometimes, another factor is the rate-of-drying. If it dries too slowly... essentially,
if you open and close the cabinet often... it's still damp most of the time.

It is suggested that you clean it with a mixture of hydrogen peroxide and ammonia, at
a ratio of 1:1 to kill fungus. However, I just cleaned out a lens this evening with
Windex... and frankly, have never had a problem either.

(interestingly, the lens looked clean but the diaphram was still slow... after close
inspection I learnt the problem ... some rust on the pivot points.)

Lastly, if you have a lens with some fungus... DON'T mix it with good lenses, even in
a dehumidifer. Because the dehumidifer prevents, but cannot kill it... so even at that
relative level of dryness... it will still contaminate the other lenses.


you wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>    I would like to know about some ideas about avoiding fungus. I know
>about keeping lenses on dry places (I have dehumidifiers where I keep them,
>but I've got fungus almost simultaneously in a very short period of time).
>
>    Should I clean with something special?
>
>    Thanks
>
>    Martin
>www.martintrucco.com.ar

To: [email protected]
From: Ron Schwarz [email protected]>
Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 
Subject: Re: [camera-fix] of windex

you wrote:
>hi folks
>
>I've been using window cleaner, and now Windex, to clean some of my Pentax
super takumar lenses.
>
>It seems to do a decent job ... but when I hold it at an angle to very
bright light ... the inside lots spotty...
>when I look at it in general daylight, it's clean as a whistle. Does this
affect anything, and is it normal?

Sounds like small fungus, or stains from fungus (fungus removed, stains not
yet removed), or "micro"-etching of coating and/or glass from fungus.

>I've been storing the windex in a fuji plastic film canister... was
wondering if the alcohol may be
>reacting with the plastic to become acidic?

I don't think there's alcohol in Windex, I think its active ingredient is
ammonia.  As to the film containers, I think they're polyethylene; if so,
they're immune to pretty much everything except heat (melts it) or UV light
(breaks it down to crumbly junk).

Are you sure you're removing all the cleaner (with whatever dirt it
dissolved) when you're wiping it off the lens?  You might want to give a
final "breath rinse" after the Windex is removed.  Breath on the lens, very
close, very slow, to mist it up with a thin layer of condensation, then,
wipe it off. If that doesn't do the trick, you might want to try something
called ROR (Residual Oil Remover). I've heard great things about it but
haven't tried it yet, but plan on buying some soon.


From minolta mailing list:
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 
From: "celicav8" [email protected]>
Subject: Re: Fungus

When I bought my MC 4.5/300mm, it was described as having "a small
pencil eraser tip sized fungus" on one of the front elements. When it
arrived, I took it to the camera shop and the guy there took the
front assembly off, cleaned the element carefully and cautiously,
reassembled the lens and until now I have not yet seen any re-growth
of the fungus. He explained to me, that it should be done with great
caution since the coating of the older MC lenses has no protective
layer and one could easily destroy the coating by rubbing to hard,
using a too coarse cloth or using alcohol! He used a Q-tip, covered
with a very very soft cloth.

Bert


From Nikon Mailing List:
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001
From: Nikon Cameras [email protected]>
Subject: Re: Is This A Good Practice?

Whatever you do, do NOT store cameras, lenses, binoculars, etc. in LEATHER
cases.  Leather seems to be a magnet for fungus, especially if there is
any humidity present.  I had a pair of binoculars ruined sitting in a
closet with their leather case.  I have had fungus attack glass filters
stored in an old leather Tiffen case (starts off with a light clouding of
the surface and progresses) which fortunately Tiffen replaced under
warranty.  I once made the mistake of storing a Nikon leather case for a
Nikon S2 camera alone in a fireproof safe.  Went to get something out of
the safe a month later and the entire case was coated with a fungus growth
(which fortunately rubbed off). Leather cases and optical glass do NOT mix
expecially if there is any humidity.


From nikon mf mailing list:
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 
From: "Mitch Winkle" [email protected]
Subject: Re: Re: lens storage

Matter of fact, Fotek (now PrintFIle) makes a humidity storage kit.  A
large archival bag with desiccant and humidity indicator card.  $27 for
the kit, $15 for replacement desiccant, and $8 for the humidity
indicatory card replacement.  You could get your whole kit in one of
these.

The large archival bags are $6 and $12 for 13x18 and 14X24 respectively.

Mitch Winkle [o]
[email protected]
AC4IY



From Camera Fix Mailing List:
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002
From: "stuey63au" madfamily at bigpond.com
Subject: Re: Visible striation fibers inside 105 Nikkor Micro 105mm/4.5 lens

Yes, sounds like fungus, I've seen two types. One looks like greyish
white 'trees' and the other looks like white very fine cotton wool
stretched between surfaces. Not sure if this was definitely fungus...

It is very possible to clean it, but it does mean dismantling the
lens and cleaning the elements. I've been successful with ordinary
dish detergent in water and gentle rubbing with my fingers, then a
final clean with an ammonia based cleaner (like Windex). The elements
came up perfect.

Sorry, but I'm not familiar with your lens, at least, enough to
advise you on dismantling it.

All the best,


Mark

--- In camera-fix@y..., "modelincome" modelincome@y... wrote:
> Recently examined my mint looking 105 micro Nikkor lens and when put
> to the light,glass shows fiber-like striation marks around internal
> lens components. Is it possible to clean it or who would do this type
> of job? I believe it my be fungus.



From Rollei Mailing List:
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 
From: Austin Franklin [email protected]
Subject: RE: [Rollei] Case Questin for Collectors & Users

> RUGers
>
> When you store your Rolleis, do you remove them from the
> eveready cases ,or do you leave them in??
>
> In the process of getting a few cases resewn, I have noticed
> mold (mildew) on the inside of the cases which has transferred
> to the leather of the cameras themselves.  It's easily removed
> with a 40 to 50% solution of alcohol (I use cheap vodka for
> that).  Wouldn't it be safer to separate the camera from the case
> when storing or exhibiting it?
>
> That's my opinion, what's yours?
>
> Jerry

Jerry,

You and I completely agree on this one.  I do not store any of my cameras in
their cases.  I store them in a cabinet that is in a room that is humidity
controlled, and I also throw some of the large silica gel packets in the
cabinet.  I even keep silica gel packets in my Lightware bags that hold
actively used cameras...

Regards,

Austin


From Camera Fix Mailing List:
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 
From: Pat Mullen [email protected]
Subject: Re: Lens disassembly

Use a 50% mixture of regular household ammonia and hydrogen peroxide, mixed
just before you use it, on a Q-Tip to remove the fungus.  It will melt
right off.  Then, clean the glass with Windex on a Q-Tip.  You'll probably
have to pick out a few "fuzzies" left behind by the Q-Tip, but that's no
big deal.  Before you close it up once again, blow out any dust with
compressed air.  You can get a can of this in any photo shop.  Electronics
shops usually have this stuff too.


From: [email protected] (Kenny Mims)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.large-format
Subject: Re: Lens Fungus Prevention
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002

...

Years ago my buddy was having this problem, and rather than try to fiddle
with bags and etc (he USED his gear quite regularly) he just got him an
abandoned refrigerator and made a "dry chamber" with a bunch of silica gel
dessicant.

Every month or so he'd bake the moisture back out of the stuff, then dry
gear all month long. LOTS of dry space too!

Worked great. Freaked out the maid though.

KM


From Camera Fix Mailing List:
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 
From: Vick Ko [email protected]
Subject: Re: Cloudy lens

Depends on the price, but be prepared to end up with a paperweight.

Look here for information if it is fungus:

http://people.smu.edu/rmonagha/mf/fungus.html

http://www.chem.helsinki.fi/~toomas/photo/fungus/

http://www.focalpointlens.com/fp_services.html#Top

I have a lens right now, and the front surface is foggy, but it is somewhat valuable lens,
and may be worth restoring.  I'm now going out to get quotes, but from what I can tell,
it won't be cheap.

regards,
Vick

Kenith Ryan wrote:

>  There is a lens on eBay that I am thinking about bidding on. The only
> thing that is holding me back is that "some of the glass has a light
> cloudy look", accordind to the seller. I am wondering whether this
> cloudiness could be cleaned off or if it is a lost cause. Other than
> the cloudiness he says the class has no other defects.
>
> Kenith Ryan



From Camera Fix Mailing List:
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 
From: Frantisek Vlcek [email protected]
Subject: Re: Cloudy lens

I think a cloudy could be internal haze, from evaporated oil,
vaseline, or whatever lubricant they used. It happened in some my old
lenses. Easy to clean. However, it might be fungus (which has a rather
distinct look), or perhaps coating damage? Ask the seller more, if
it's internal or external, homogenous,...

Hopefully it isn't a zoom!

Frantisek



From camera fix mailing list:
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 
From: Gene Poon [email protected]
Subject: Re: Cloudy lens

Kenith Ryan wrote:
 There is a lens on eBay that I am thinking about bidding on. The only thing
that is holding me back is that "some of the glass has a light cloudy look",
accordind to the seller. I am wondering whether this cloudiness could be
cleaned off or if it is a lost cause. Other than the cloudiness he says the
class has no other defects.


What kind of lens?

A lot of Leitz lenses from the early M-mount era and before, do that.  I have an
M-mount 135mm that I bought, thinking it was a film of evaporated oil from the
mount grease.  Wrong...it won't clean up.

-GP


From rangefinder mailing list:
Date: Thu,  9 May 2002 
From: Winfried Buechsenschuetz [email protected]
Subject: RE: fungus on lens


First, check whether the spots are on the outer surface of the rear lens
element. Touch the spot with the tip of a wooden toothpick (or any other
plastic/wooden tip) and check whether it really touches the spot, or
whether there is a visible 'gap' between the spot and the tip. If there
is one, maybe it is on the inner surface, but to check this, you will
have to remove the rear lens element.

If the spot really is on the outer surface, try to wipe it with vinegar.
I removed a couple of fungus spots this way.

Winfried


From: "Al Denelsbeck" [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: What to do with the little plastic containers film comes in?
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002

Melissa [email protected] wrote
> What do you use the desiccant for?  And how do you recharge the granules?

    Long-term storage of cameras, lenses, negatives, or slides. Storage of
any other electronic item. Anything where humidity might be an issue. Some
photographers shooting in rainy areas keep a couple containers in their
camera bags, but I wonder if the stuff doesn't become 'overloaded' quickly
with so much circulation of humid air.

    In some circumstances where you might have to change temperatures with
your camera and lens abruptly, like coming indoors from near-freezing
weather, condensation can form on your lens very quickly. Putting the lens
in a ziploc bag, especially with a small container, can prevent this. Take
it out once the lens is room temp.

    A few years back, when my camera bag became soaked and had to sit, wet,
for a few hours, I got humidity inside the front element of one of my
lenses. Stuck the lens in a large ziploc with two containers of dessicant,
and set it in the sun for two days. Dried it right out.

   For recharging, just spread the granules out on a cookie sheet and bake
them in an oven set for 250 degrees F for a couple hours. To the best of my
knowledge, you can do this as many times as you like - there is supposed to
be no 'active lifespan' for silica gel.

    Cheers!

        - Al.


[Ed. note: please take careful note of the health warnings below!!! I recommend the "chunky"
silica gel found in cat litter box drying agents as less dust and easier to use etc.]
From: Chris Quayle [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: What to do with the little plastic containers film comes in?
Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 


Steve Kramer wrote:
> > At the risk of appearing like a tree hugger, would suggest care over
> > handling unpackaged silica gel. It may seem quite harmless and inert,
> > but is known to cause the same asbestosis like diseases as asbestos.
> >
> > Handle outside and don't breath in any dust...
>
> Hmmm... sounds like sound advice to me. I have never heard about this
> problem before, but I'd prefer to err on the side of safety. I'll use
> your method from now on. Thanks!
>
> Steve Kramer
> Chiang Mai, Thailand


A google search on "Silica gel related disease" turned up


http://pearsonandpearson-law.com/silicos/silicos.html

and quite a few others. I would never have known about it, but my
brother works in health and safety and mentioned it.

I used to cut bags of the stuff (from war surplus radio gear) open when
I was a kid and play with it, but would be a little more carefull now.

Chris


From camera fix mailing list:
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 
From: "Vincent" [email protected]
Subject: Re: How to remove fungus from glass?

Frank, Personally I would return the lens, another one in good shape
will eventually show up if you keep looking. However if you decide to
have it polished and recoated, it probably wouldn't hurt to polish
the fungus off with some Colgate, which has in it the very fine
microscopic abrasive zinc oxide. Keep it wet while polishing, and use
a clean soft cotton cloth such as an old T shirt. Telephoto lenses
will stand this kind of repair far better than normal or wide angle
lenses which see every fault because of their narrow depth of focus.

Good Luck!!! Vincent
...


From camera fix mailing list:
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 
From: "Abdon Gonzalez" [email protected]
Subject: Re: Camera and Lens Storage ?

Regardless of the source of the smell (probably a piece of leather) it
is not a good idea to put camera equipment on an enclosed space, unless
you don't mind fungus growth.

Fungus is all around us floating in the air. When it gets dry, it dies.
When humidity rises, it floats from the small places it was able to
survive. If your shelf has a glass, it restricts air flow, which in
turn encourages the retention of moisture; the house gets drier during
the day, the fungus thrives and survives a bit longer on your camera
throne. As the day goes by the air behind the shelf begins to dry, so
the fungus thrives and survives on the next enclosed space, inside your
camera and lenses. By the time the humidity there starts going down, it
is night time again, which brings another raise on humidity to keep the
circle of life going.

If you are going to keep your equipment in a visible spot, Keep it in
the open to encourage healthy air exchange. Do not store your equipment
on camera bags or lens cases! those are for transporting them, not to
store them. As long as the equipment is properly capped, household dust
will be less damaging and easier to deal with.

> I've got my 20 Nikons and 35 lenses in a small display case (about 2
> cubic feet). Noticed a 'musty' or slight 'moldy' smell up close when
> I open the door. I can't tell where it's originating, I've 'sniffed'
> each item. No visible mold on cameras or in lenses. Any
> suggestions...something to put in case aside from desicant? Someone
> suggested 'moth balls' would kill mold. Need help please. Thanks.

- Abdon
http://www.sillypages.com


From camera fix mailing list:
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 
From: "Vincent" [email protected]
Subject: Re: Camera and lens Storage...

Of course it is always wise to keep freshly dried dessicant in any
place where you store equipment, but that is the key, it must be
dried out once in a while especially if you live in a moist climate.
Here in Fresno, CA the climate is usually dry, so no such problems
unless one has a leak somewhere creating some moist circumstances.
Removing the moisture from the surrounding air with the dessicant,
simply removes the ideal environment for fungii to thrive, and as
Abdon states correctly, fungus lives everywhere waiting for that
ideal environment to thrive. Drying out your dessicant is a simple
matter of putting it under a warm lamp, and or cooking it for a short
time in a 200 degree oven. When I was in the Air Force back in the
50s, the dessicants we used, had a color mark, which was either blue,
and or pink. One denoted the dry state, the other was the fully
moisture absorbed state, I cannot remeber which. Of course this had
to be carried in the recon planes, because the rapid changes in
altitude would create an H2O mess inside a lens or camera on those
big arial cameras. I can remember seeing it being removed by the cups
full after some missions where the dessicant failed or was not
properly serviced. As to the environment you keep it in, clean it
with ammonia cleaner or Windex, as I believe ammonia kills fungus,
and will restore that clean aroma, and yes sunlight also works as Jim
Brokaw states. 

Good Luck!!! 
Vincent

 PS: No! None of the leatherette on any Nikon I ever worked on has
any leather, only the cases. V


From camera fix mailing list:
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 
From: "Kelvin" [email protected]
Subject: Photo fungus

hi folks

I've just changed the photo on this homepage to a photo of a
really pretty piece of fungus in one of my lenses ... for those of you
who have heard a lot about fungus but never seen it (perhaps you
live in drier climes?) ... take a look.

It was taken by an overhauled Industar 61 L/z lens at f16  mounted on
about 20 cm of extension (tubes). Color was adjusted in Adobe to give
it some "artistic merit".

It's a lovely fractal pattern and I'm almost sad to have to clean it off.


From camera fix mailing list:
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 
From: "Mark Stuart" madfamily at bigpond.com
Subject: Re: Fungus

Interestingly, I just read a letter in Amateur Photographer about
fungus on CD's. The guy had stored photos on them thinking it was
more or less permanent, but apparently there is a fungus that thrives
on polycarbonate and aluminium! Looks just like some lens fungi. The
result was that they couldn't be read. They were stored in air
condititoning all their lives, too. Beware!

Mark



Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: lens fungus
From: Magus used4news@{REMOVE}bigfoot.com
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002


"Melissa" [email protected] wrote 

> What causes it?  Does it have something to do with the way a lens is
> stored?
>
> I don't have any lenses with fungus, but I'd like to avoid it.
>
> Melissa

Hi Melissa,

Avoiding fungus is a valid concern.

I went to Australia for a year in the late 80's and left some gear in a
friends house back in the UK. It got put up in the attic.
Thats all it took. A damp winter and a hot summer in the attic - four
out of six old Pre-Ai Nikkors ruined, and one Mamiya M.F. lens too.
I was utterly gutted.


How to avoid the demon spores
Keep lenses in a neutral, clean environment in terms of temp and
humidity, but, here is the main thing -
make sure your lenses get frequent doses of strong sunlight / daylight.
The litte fungi swines cant abide that!

Heres a drastic 'cure' for a drastic situation -
If, you see some fungi forming on the exterior elements of a lens, get
some (white?) vinegar on a q-tip and swab the fungal area.
It 'kills' the fungus apparently, and if caught early enough all will be
well.

Even if its a little too late, and the fungus has 'left its mark' the
vinegar should at least arrest further damage.
Clean lens gently with proper lens cleaner sometime soon afterwards ;-)
As for Fungi inside the elements .. an immediate proffesional repair
estimate is the only choice. Usually its not worth the expense.


Ooooh those Goddamn lil' spores!

M.


From: mike II [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Lenses and fungus growth
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002


Just what is all this talk of fungus growing on lenses? What could the
stuff possibly survive on? I doubt if the 'Super Multi Coating' on my
glass has any nutrients whatever. This has me worried. I mean, if fungus
is possible, other things are too. What if I get an infestation of
Lichens next? Lichens are only a small step away from fungi. And, as you
all know, where there are lichens, there are reindeer. And where there
are reindeer, there are a lot of broken lenses.

By a process of deduction, therefore, Santa must hate photographers..or
at the very least, old lenses.

mike II




From: "William E. Graham" [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Lenses and fungus growth
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002


"Avogadro" [email protected] wrote ...
> Do this test:
>
> Get camera bag (containing camera & lenses) good and wet - as from
> rain, or from standing in a puddle.
>
> Place in corner of basement and leave for 4 weeks.
>
> After the required time, inspect the contents of the bag... assuming
> you can see anything inside from all the fungus.
>
> Those fungus filaments and tendrils get inside of everything. They mar
> the surfaces of lenses and mirrors. Most likely the lens elements will
> need to be replaced, and this may cost more than buying a whole
> replacement lens on the used market.
>
> This test will make you a believer.
> Disclaimer: perform test on worthless gear only.
...

Yes....I put a stereo Realist camera in a small floor safe for two
years....The safe was made for keeping papers, and was "fire retardent".
The way the manufacturer made it fire retardent was to line it with some
stuff that exeuded moisture when heated. Whenever there was a warm day
for two years the lining exeuded moisture, and the resulting fungus
turned my camera completely green....both inside and out...The camera
was ruined....Don't ever store anything photographic in a fire retardent
safe made for papers.......


From: [email protected] (Winfried Buechsenschuetz)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Lenses and fungus growth
Date: 3 Nov 2002 


According to a paper on lens fungus issued by Zeiss in the 60s, fungus
spores will keep alive everywhere and start growing as long as there
is sufficient humidity. The visible lens fungus does NOT grow on the
(anorganic) coating (I have seen a lot of fungus on uncoated lenses,
too), but on residues of dirt and smudge which will even pass a lens
mount (which is never absolutely tight).


From rangefinder mailing list:
Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 
From: clint stephenson [email protected]
Subject: RE: Fungus or Grease?


Here is the whopper link on lens fungus and all it's evil--
http://www.chem.helsinki.fi/~toomas/photo/fungus/
                                                     


From rangefinder mailing list:
Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002
From: Winfried Buechsenschuetz [email protected]
Subject: RE: Fungus or Grease?


Fungus may have different appearances, from tiny whitish spots over
snowflakes to spiderwebs and finally to a semi-opaque layer on the lens
which makes them look cloudy. In this almost final stage the surface of
the lens (or actually the fungus) may even feel a bit rough.

I had something similar on an inner surface of a Xenar lens on an old
Retina (I found this when I was close to the end of a repair nightmare,
but that's a different story....).

Fungus usually does not dissolve in lens cleaning fluids, alcohol or
lighter fluid. Early forms of fungus usually can be removed with
household vinegar. In more stubborn cases you can use concentrated
vinegar. In the case described fortunately the coating survived thorough
rubbing with q-tips and concentrated vinegar.

However don't blame me if you damage the coating. Coatings easily rub
off once a tiny spot is missing somewhere, especially on inner surfaces
where some manufacturers obviously used a 'softer' coating than on outer
surfaces. Fungus may damage and penetrate the coating so there is always
a risk of damaging the coating when cleaning such a  surface. But I
would strictly prefer a lens with spots of coating missing over one with
clouds of fungus.

I don't know the re-coating lab mentioned but I think the prices refer
to disassembled lens elements. AFAIK it is not possible to re-coat
cemented elements (or they have to be separated and re-cemented). Also,
in some lenses, lens elements are mounted by rolling a thin 'collar' of
the mount on the edge of the lens element, you can see this on the small
elements of the Canonet and many other more or less symmetrical lenses.
It is very difficult to separate an element mounted with that method
from its cell.



From rangefinder mailing list:
Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 
From: "Bill Salati" [email protected]
Subject: RE: [RF List] Fungus or Grease?


Hi Guys,

     Thanks for the response to my questions. I'll try your suggestions and
report back. BTW, Several sites including Ed Romney suggest Ammonia and
Hydrogen Peroxide in a 50/50 mix for fungus. This particular lens suffers
from several issues. One surface fungus, the surface initially mentioned I
think is grease contamination and it was dropped too, but ths was not
immediately apparent.

     I particularly like the Vodka suggestion! Thanks again.

Bill 



From: [email protected] (Winfried Buechsenschuetz)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: help on a cleaned fungus lens
Date: 9 Feb 2003

Colyn [email protected] wrote 
> Wood or leather have nothing to do with a len getting fungus..
>
> Fungus is caused by moisture getting into the lens..

Moisture gets into each and every lens since they are not air tight.
(They are even not fluid-proof - dripping too much lens cleaning fluid
on the front lenses may get through the retainer rings on the inner
surfaces.)

Fungus needs moisture to live. But it also needs something to eat. It
lives on organic substances. In wood or leather cases organic
particles may get quite easily on the (outer) lens surfaces.

In an article on lens fungus issued by Zeiss in the 1960s they
recommend to avoid leather or wooden cases for lenses.

Winfried


From camera fix mailing list:
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002
From: "JMS" [email protected]
Subject: Silica gel - to buy?

I sent this a couple of days ago and have not seen it on the list, so here goes
again.

----- Original Message -----
From: JMS
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2002 
Subject: Re: [camera-fix] Silica gel - to buy?


I purchased mine from Outdoor World, used for gun safes. (I store my equipment
in a gun safe) I use the 450 gram size, it will protect 33 cubic feet, and cost
$10.00. The manufacture has a web site, www.dehumidify.com hope this helps.

Take Care and God Bless,
John
[email protected]


[Ed.note: for your info only, caveat repairer, I haven't tried this remedy...]
From: [email protected] (Thomas Glaser)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Lens Fungi
Date: 9 Apr 2003

"jriegle" [email protected] wrote 
> I bought a lens and later discovered it has the tiniest bit of fungus in it.
> I can't blame the seller because it almost not detectable without careful
> observation. It is on the third element back from the front at the very
> edge. It is a grayish-whitish clump with fiber tendrils that grew out. The
> whole affected area is only 2mm square or so and looking from the rear,
> appears not to affect the optical path.
>
> I've opened several lenses for cleaning before, but the screws in the mount
> are so tight on this one, I can't open it without stripping off the slots in
> the screws, so I'm going to leave it alone. I want to be sure the fungus
> spot does not grow.
>
> does anyone else have a lens with apparent inactive fungus? How did you (or
> did you) treat it? How long has it been inactive?
>
> Thanks, John

You can kill the fungi,bacterias etc.by formalin vapours.In the
hospitals we sterilise by this way our endoscopes,operative
microscopes et other fine optics,which can not be sterilised by the
heat.

In You local Pharmacy You can buy formalin tablets,put few of them in one
airtight glas(gherkin glass) ,place Your lens(lenses) init and let it
work for 24-48 hours.After this "treatment" You ned not nothing to
clean,let formalin evapourate on the fresh air and that�s it



From: Jupiter [email protected]
Newsgroups: uk.rec.photo.misc
Subject: Re: Dust mite photos
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 

Whatever the insects crawling around in these cameras are, I very much
doubt that they are dust mites.

Their size is about 1/4-1/3 mm long and thus virtually invisible to
the naked eye. Male is slightly smaller than female. They are whitish
in colour and thus can possibly be seen in dust samples when they are
moving on a dark background. They have 8 legs, no eyes, no developed
respiratory structures and by volume are mainly a walking stomach and
respiratory system.

The magnification factor of a camera eyepiece is very much
insufficient to render them them clearly visible. I'm a hobby
microscopist and you need around 400x with a light microscope to see
them in any detail. The really good photomicrographs of dust mites
you come across are taken via electron microscopes.

For what it's worth, dust mites need high humidity to survive (region
of 80%) which is what they find in their favoured habitats of pillows
and bedding. They favour shedded skin cells as food.

The interior of a camera fits none of their habitat criteria. Dust
mites cannot survive in dry conditions. 

The insects discussed here are too big to be dust mites and are
resisting freezing and goodness knows what else.

Now here's a tip. Ether is the insect killer par excellence.
Pharmacist/Chemist won't sell you ether? Of course not, renders people
unconscious. Remember the old engine starter sprays - NOT the
waterproofers - ? They're still around. Halfords do an own brand.
Main constituent - ether. Very clean, evaporates rapidly. Open the
camera, place in plastic bag, little squirt of engine starter, close
bag. Result, dead insects. This is what the entomologists and moth
collectors are using nowadays. If you want to just anaesthetise the
bugs for collection and examination, just give them very short
exposure of a few seconds. If you want to exterminate them give them a
bit longer - maybe 2 minutes maximum.

This stuff won't harm cameras - don't spray directly on to plastic
surfaces - what you need to do is create an atmosphere of ether
vapour, so spray sparingly into the bottom of the bag then close it.
Evaporation is extremely rapid. 

 Willy Eckerslyke [email protected] wrote:
>Stephen Leslie wrote:
>
>> If I remember correctly the solution is tp place camera body in sealed
>> plastic bag, then pop that into lunchbox and stick in freezer to kill dust
>> mites. I then cleaned camera out next day thoroughly with blower brush and
>> they were never seen again.
>
>We tried that with my wife's old Ricoh. When freeezing for a few days
>and then weeks had no effect, we left it in the freezer for six months.
>The little buggers took a few days to wake up after that, but there they
>were again, wandering over the focusing screen as right as rain!
>My wife (and the camera) had spent a year working in Canada, so it's
>possible that they were extra tough Canuck crawlies for which half a
>year spent iced up was the norm.
>
>I'd be hesitant going the flea collar route, in case any chemical
>solvents are given off, but then IANAchemist.



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