Mamiya Universal Camera
Photo courtesy of Lewis Lyles
[email protected]
Related Links:
Mamiya Press Related Posts in Medium Format Digest
Four Designs Company services the Mamiya Universal camera, and carry
Polaroid backs for same.
Mamiya
Press (Alexander Kurz - German)
First Look Norman Rothschild, p.98, December 1969, Pop. Photography.
Mamiya Universal Press
Note: Mamiya also makes the Polaroid 600 SE (in production thru 1992).
Be warned there is no interchangeability between lenses or backs of these
two entirely different cameras. Polaroid 600 SE only takes Polaroid 100
film. The 75mm f5.6, 127mm f4.7 and 150mm f5.6 for the Polaroid 600 SE
won't work on the Mamiya Universal. Nor will Mamiya Universal lenses work
on the Polaroid 600 SE. [see update on 600 SE
below]
Mamiya Universal Press by Mayer, Robert E. from Shutterbug Nov.
1992 p. 176, 178-9 - Classic and Collector column.
Lab Report
Source: Test Report by Bill Pierce, Pop. Photography, October
1972, pp. 84-5.
All yours, with the New Mamiya Universal Camera System
With the ever-increasing uses for photography, the demands on camera
technology and design have likewise grown. Verswatility is no longer a
feature, but an essential. The single-facted camera has given way to the
System.
The new Mamiya Universal and its system exemplify this to the utmost. It
offers more facility flexibility thanany other of its type. Yet, it is
compact, fast, and easy to handle. These capabilities speak for
themselves:
[Ad from 1970 Pop. Photography]
From: Gary Helfrich [email protected]
Subject: Response to Affordable Wide-Angle
Date: 1998-02-12
If wide is the most important feature that you are looking for, then you will be hard pressed to beat the Mamiya Universal with a 50mm. On the plus side, the 50 is as sharp as any modern MF lens. On the minus side, it is not that contrasty, and is prone to flare. I have both the Mamiya with a 50, and a Fuji GSW690III. If the Fuji is wide enough for the shot, it is the camera of choice. The only time that I use the Mamiya is when I need the coverage.
The Fuji is faster to handle, and does not have the light leak problems that the Mamiya is plagued with. Don't get me wrong, I like the Mamiya, and would never get rid of it. If someone told me that I could only have one camera, it would be the Fuji.
MAMIYA PRESS
#3 Universal outfit, w/ 100 3.5, 6x7 lever back, all 9 $489.00
#4. Universal body, chrm, w/ G adapter $289.00
LENSES
50 f6.3 black, w/ finder, 9++ $499.00
65 f6.3 , no cam $69.00
90 f3.5 chrome , 8+/9 $189.00
100 f3.5 blk, bxd, 9+ $199.00
150 f5.6 chrome , 8+/9 $239.00
Mamiya Universal polaroid back , 9 $249.00
Focus screen holder , gray, 8+ $99.00
Four Designs Polaroid back , w/ viewing panel $179.00
M adapter, vertical, $79.00
Eyecup , $12.
Mamiya Universal I.B. , copy, $7.00
Mamiya
Chronology from 1960-70s
Thanks to Mamiya UK Site
for Mamiya Universal GIFs
PHOTO NOTES:
Mamiya Universal Medium format camera w/100mm 3.5 adjustable lens. Camera
has a Singer graflex 120 roll film holder and a pistol grip shutter
release. The range
finder focusing works beautifully. The Mamiya Universal camera has a
graflex roll film back with lever wind.
Photo #2 -
One body - one 6x7 roll back - one 6x9 roll back - both take 120 or 220
film. One
100mm Sekor lens in a Seikosha S shutter, one 150mm lens in a Seiko
shutter, both
with M-X settings - both near mint. Grip with cable release and
trigger.
From: [email protected] (HMorHM) Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Mamiya Universal 6x7 Date: 29 Mar 1998 I went for the Mamiya press when I felt I needed to supplement my Yashicamat with a more flexible system. It's hard to compare the two systems. I love looking down onto the ground glass of the TLR and composing my photo. Its great for working with people because your not hiding your face behind a camera. And the lower angle often reveals a little extra about your subject. I looked hard at the Mamiya "C" system first. It has a fine array of lenses and can focus much closer because of the bellows. On a tripod you could use the paramender to correct parallax. It doesn't have interchangeable backs, but the bodies are affordable so you could have two. This camera is the clear upgrade for someone on a limited budget who has outgrown the Yashicamat. No polaroids so meter carefully and when in doubt, bracket. So why did I decide on the press? I liked it because it is huge and rugged. Not that the Mamiya "C" isn't well built, just that I've had trouble with my Yashicamat and wanted a camera that would instill confidence. The press gives me a whole different attitude. You are in complete control, there are no interlocks. I have lever backs so they control the spacing between rolls. I was thinking of getting a K back with knob advance. Then I could control spacing too. (It would add 6x6 and 6x4.5 formats with proper masks to 6x9). You have to remember to do everything. remove lens cap, dark slide, set fstop and shutter speed, cock shutter, focus frame... Pop! but your not done yet. Right after the decisive moment you must advance the film or you'll never remember if you have or not before the next shot. This camera begs to be used with a flash atop the hand grip. I use it indoors and out. Never could get comfortable with a flash on my Yashicamat. Eye level range finder is the way to go in this department. And finally I got the Super 23. I like to do table top photography and the bellows back really opens up this realm. No need for extension tubes, etc. Put on the ground glass back and your ready to go. Its not a view camera but it does add some flexibility. However you cannot shoot polaroid with the Super 23. Happy Hunting! -Heath
From: David F. Stein [email protected]
Subject: Response to User feedback on Mamiya Press Super 23
Date: 1998-06-03
Mamiya sells a Universal manual reprint for $8 that provides a great
overview of the system. Go to the User Forum at the www.mamiya.com site.
You can print out an order form from your browser.
From: Michael Kaiser [email protected]
Subject: Response to info about mamiya universal; are lenses self cocking?
Date: 1998-03-23
I've been using a Universal for over 15 years. Lenses do not self-cock.
Older 23's have tilts and swings, the universal does not. I have used it
for portraits, but find it a wonderful landscape camera and architectural
camera. The numerous backs make it a real workhorse. I have had one
shutter problem in 15 years, My 100mm needed to be adjusted, otherwise, no
problems. I have done several weddings with it and find it works well,
but I prefer an SLR for weddings. I have both the graphlex back and the
Mamiya backs, I prefer the Mamiya back because it appears to give sharper
results.
Hope this helps. Mike
rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Re: Wide Angle Medium Format
From: [email protected] (Joseph Albert)
Date: Sun Jun 14 05:46:34 CDT 1998
the point of the SWC camera is that it isn't an SLR so it can be an
optically true wide angle instead of a retrofocus lens. the fuji 645
optics are also optically true wide angles. the distagon for
hassie SLRs are retrofocus lenses. with advances in ability to
design retrofocus lenses, the distagon for the hasselblad probably
comes close enough to the fuji rangefinder lenses that for all
practical photographic purposes, it may not matter, but in particular with
respect to distortion you can normally expect an opticall true wide
angle lens to outperform a retrofocus design.
The fuji 645 optics are absolutely first rate, so it would be hard for
a distagon to fully match it for quality. and the Fuji 6x9 wide angle
camera will outperform any hasselblad wide angle hands down on account
of the larger image.
an inexpensive route to getting a first class optically true wide angle
is a mamiya press camera and 50/6.3 lens. this is a biogon design and
is quite sharp and distortion free.
j. albert
From: Jim Heuer [email protected]
Subject: Response to Lens quality of Mamiya Press universal
Date: 1998-06-11
My experience is with the 50mm, 65mm, 105mm f3.5, 165mm and 250mm f8.0. Overall I'd say these lenses are excellent. The 105 3.5 is perhaps the least satisfactory of the ones I have.
The only quibble I have is that these were produced before the development of the wonderful new coatings found today on high-end lenses. Lens flare can be a problem in strongly back-lit scenes. Remember that to get good sharpness with this camera, you just about have to use a tripod. The beast is heavy, the widest shutter openings are not very, and it's really hard (for me anyway) to hold the thing very steady given the relatively slow shutter speeds required (especially for the longer lenses).
But, given those limitations, the images I've gotten from these lenses have been sharp across the image, with nice contrast, and no funky color shifts.
BTW, that 50mm is a marvel of optics. With the 6X9 format, it has about the widest angle of view of any lens in medium photography that sells for under $3000 (and it sells typically for WAY under $3000).
From: Gary Helfrich [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Mamiya Universal information
Date: 2 Jul 1998
[email protected] wrote:
: Hello friends, : Recently I have bought an Mamiya Universal, 90mm, 6x7 Graflex Back, and : I have take some photos of test. I believe that they are fantastic. I : take photos of landscapes and I need more information about this : camera, advice and experiences of other users and if any web exists : dedicated to her or with information on her. It is a true jewel. Thank : you. A greeting.
Great choice of camera! If you like landscape photography, you should try
to find a 6x9 back and the 50mm f/6.8 lens. You also might contact Mamiya
and order a reprint of the owners manual. In the US, they only cost $7.
and are well worth it. The manual not only explains operation of the
camera, but it also lists all of the accesories available and their
function.
A few quirks that you might want to be aware of:
1) The foam that Mamiya uses to gasket the body and film back gets gummy
and falls off with time. If you have light leaks, this will fix the
problem. Mamiya, bless their souls, still will supply gasket sets.
2) The coatings on the lenses are not up to modern standards. Always use
a shade or a lens hood.
3) While some of the lenses are outstanding (50mm, 75mm, 100mm (newer one
which does not retract) 150 (Black shutter) and 250 f/5) others are just
average (65mm, 90mm, 100mm retractable, 150 (Chrome) and 250 f/8)
4) The lever backs are more reliable and have more reliable spacing than
the knob backs.
Gary Helfrich
[email protected]
From Medium Format Digest:
From: tom meyer [email protected]
Subject: Response to Polaroid 600SE / Mamiya Press lenses
Date: 1998-08-25
Hello John,
I have shot a lot of portraits with the 600se and have aquired an adapter to
use my rb 6x7 backs on it.
The serendipitous finding is that the 150mm framelines in the finder are a
perfect match for a 6x7 back with the 127mm lens!
I inquired with my used equipment guru at KEH and he said the 150 has a
minimum focus of about 7 ft. which translates to a big "why bother?". the
127 mm with the adapter for 6x7 kinda translates to an effective longer
lens (perspective/crop/min focus etc.). my big question is where can i get
a 75MM lens and veiwfinder? that would translate to a pretty nice kit!
2.75x3.25 polaroid wide and normal and 6x7cm normal and portrait length
with tri-x. YES!
let me know if you find one (a 75mm) and save your money from the 150mm
for a roll film adapter
tom meyer
From: [email protected] (Gary Helfrich)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: New to MF - help me select?
Date: 27 Sep 1998
Boris Kozintsev ([email protected]) wrote:
: Gary Helfrich wrote in message : >If you are willing to buy used, the Mamiya Super 23 is a system that you : >might want to consider. It has not been made for a few decades, but the : >lenses and accessories are easy to find second hand. : : Do you happen to know -- are the lenses of this system interchangeable with : Mamiya Universal? Thanks.
The Mamiya Standard 23, Super 23, and Universal lenses will all interchange
with the exception of the 250 f/5, which will not mount on some of the
earliest standard 23 bodies. Lenses for the Polaroid 600 can also be
adapted to fit the Mamiya Super 23/ Universal cameras. The lenses for the
600 were made by Mamiya.
Gary Helfrich
From: [email protected] (Gary Helfrich)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: mamiya press focusing
Date: 30 Sep 1998
alan ([email protected]) wrote:
: Is there a method for setting the range finder on these cameras. I t : appears that the there must be an adjustment method for each lens,,help
The rangefinder as well as the cam on the lens can be adjusted. The
rangefinder is far easier to adjust than the lens cams.
First, mount the camera on a tripod, and put the ground glass film holder
on. The rangfinder cover is removed as follows: First, take off the slider
for the bright frame mask on the back. Next, remove the small Phillips head
screw on the back and both sides of the rangefinder housing. Lift the cover
straight up.
There are three adjustment screws that are easy to reach. These control the
mirror parallelism, infinity stop, and close focus offset. There are
adjustments for tracking the came deeper inside the rangfinder, but I would
leave these alone.
Focus the camera on any near (3-5 meters) brightly lit object. If the
superimposed image is offset in the vertical plane, adjust the screw in the
back of the mirror until the images line up.
Now focus the camera on an object at infinity. This means at least a
kilometer away. Use a loupe on the ground glass to verify that you are at
infinity focus, rather than trusting the markings on the lens. Check to see
that the rangfinder indicates focus. There are two screws about 2
centimeters from the lower right corner of the rangfinder mirror. The
closest one is the infinity adjustment.
Refocus on an object about 2 meters away. Use the screw angled in at 45
degrees that is furthest from the mirror to adjust the close focus.
At this point, the camera should focus accurately with the lens that you
used for these adjustments. If the focus is still not accurate at all
points with this lens, then you should send the camera to a professional for
any further adjustment.
I'd suggest using the 100mm lens for these adjustments. It is the only lens
without a cam. (The rangefinder is driven directly off the back of the
focusing helicoid) I suspect that this is the lens that Mamiya used as the
reference to set up the rangefinder in the first place.
Good luck
Gary Helfrich
From Medium Format Digest:
From: Bill Warrington [email protected]
Subject: Response to Which camera for 6x9 polaroid
Date: 1998-09-27
I have a Mamiya Press Universal that I use for Polaroids. The camera allows you to use the full 3 1/4 x 4 1/4 area of Polaroid pack film. I bought the camera used and it is very rugged.
I have a 127mm f4.7 lens which is like a normal lens for this format. I also have a 90mm Mamiya Press lens which is on the wide angle side. I'm an offset printer as well as a photographer. I use black and white Polaroids for photos which we will screen with a halftone screen, and then print on an offset press. My Polaroid pics print much better than color snapshots customers often supply.
I think that the Mamiya Press Universal will give you the best quality for 3 1/4 x 4 1/4 Polaroid prints. The Universal model was the only model of Mamiya Press cameras which would accept Polaroid backs as far as I know. I had an original press and my brother-in-law has the Super; neither would take a Polaroid back.
Good luck, Bill
From: "Dirk J. Bakker" [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Mamiya Universal / Polaroid
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998
Hi Tom,
Tom Ferguson wrote:
> I think I want to buy a used Mamiya Universal Press camera with an "M" > adapter, a Polaroid back, a 6x7 back, and a couple lenses. The system is > a bit confusing, and hard to see "in person". Please let me know if I'm > misunderstanding anything. > > The main use for this camera would be as a Polaroid proofing camera (pack > film #664 usually) on "commercial" photo shoots when I'm using 6x7 or 35mm > gear. Most people use a modified Polaroid 110A (or similar), but I would > like to be able to change lenses (perhaps a normal and a wide angle). > > The second (much less common) use for the camera would be to shoot 6x7 > film. I own a nice Pentax 67 system, but if I need a shutter speed faster > than 1/30 and flash sync........ > > So, Have I forgotten any "parts"?
Focusing hood, perhaps?
> Is the "M" back needed/correct?
Yes, the "M" (for Mamiya) _adapter_ allows you to put the Mamiya lever-wind
backs (6x7 or 6x9) or there is even one named "K" which has masks for 6x4.5,
6x6 or without any masks 6x9 knob wind.
Also, there is a "G" (for Graflex) adapter which allows putting Graflok
accessories, backs, ground glass, etc.
The Universal without any adapter accepts the Polaroid back directly.
BTW, the
same Polaroid back can be used in the Mamiya RBZ. When using the Polaroid
back
you have some slight vignetting with the lenses than will cover the regular
backs. Certain lenses are designed to cover the full Polaroid format. I
believe they are a 75mm, 127mm and 150mm.
> Is the above system reasonable simple to change from Polaroid to film?
Super simple. You simply unlatch a lock on either side of the body and the
adapter attached to what ever back you're using comes off. Slip on the
Polaroid back, latch the two locks and you're done.
> Am I correct that only the "Universal", and not the "23" or "Standard" is > usable with the Polaroid back?
I believe that is correct.
> Is there any other comperably priced used system out there I should > consider? A bit of lens and/or film rise and fall would be a wonderful > thing!
If you want movements consider getting a spare Super 23 body. All the lenses
and Mamiya backs of the Universal will work with it. Best of both worlds!
> Thanks in advance, > [email protected] (Tom Ferguson)HTH,
Dirk
rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
From: [email protected] (Sandy King)
[1] Re: 50mm Mamiya Universal/Press usage?
Date: Sun Oct 25 20:29:59 CST 1998
[email protected] (Gregory
Allen) wrote:
> Hi, > > I am looking for any experiences with this most famed wide angle lens. I > am considering a purchase and am looking for advice. > Also, has anyone used this lens with full-frame (3.25 x 4.25) Polaroid? > How much vignetting is there? > > Thanks so much. > > gallen
I just purchased one of these lenses based on the recommendation of a
friend. He adapted his to make circle images on 5X7 film, using the entire
image area of the lens. I have seen his 5X7 negatives and the circle of
illumination from the 50mm lens is over four and one/half inches in
diameter. Based on this I would imagine that you would not get any
vignetting on the 3.25 X 4.25 Polaroid film.
Sandy King
Robert,
Just thought I'd point out an error on your Medium Format pages relating to
the Mamiya Press camera.
http://www.smu.edu/~rmonagha/mf/mamiyauniv.html
On this page it says:
"Note: Mamiya also makes the Polaroid 600 SE (in production thru 1992). Be
warned there is no interchangeability between lenses or backs of these two
entirely different cameras. Polaroid 600 SE back is attached permanently
and only takes Polaroid 100 film. The 75mm f5.6, 127mm f4.7 and 150mm f5.6
for the Polaroid 600 SE won't work on the Mamiya Universal. Nor will
Mamiya Universal lenses work on the Polaroid 600 SE. "
[Ed. note: glitch fixed in text above, thanks to John...]
Well, I have a 600SE and the back is not permanently attached. The lugs to
which the backs attach and lock to are similar to the Mamiya ones but have
a slot in the centre. I have a back adapter which allows me to use Press
films backs, and I also have a ground glass screen which fits straight
onto the body. Adapted adapters (if you get my meaning) and adapted backs
are available, or you could probably adapt your own if you were useful
with a file. This extends the usefulness of the 600SE quite a lot.
Your statement about the lenses is true, unfortunately. The Press and 600SE
do have different fittings.
By way of 'compensation' the 600SE can usually be found for a lower price
than a Press.
Thanks for a great Web site. It's very useful and interesting.
Regards, John
[Ed. note: thanks for the update and correction too!]
From Medium Format Digest:
From: David Bartley [email protected]
Subject: Response to info about mamiya universal; are lenses self
cocking?
Date: 1998-11-14
Mamiya Press cameras are a good choice for landscape and closeup,
especially the ones with back tilts. However, there is only one lense
which will allow you to use the tilts if you also need infinity or
long distance focus. The 100 mm 3.5 lens mount has two positions; one
is full length for use with the back buttoned down, the other a
recessed postion to use when extending the back. None of the other
lenses have this kind of mount, so they cannot be used with the tilts
unless you are very close up.
The camera with normal and wide lenses is good for group pictures or
environmental portraits, but for individuals and greater working
distance the long lenses are less useful because they only focus down
to about seven feet. The camera is also big and heavy; dark slide can
be forgotten because there is no interlock with the shutter or film
advance. Dark slide must be remembered when changing backs or lenses
or you lose your last picture. It is fun to use for landscapes but
very slow and subject to goof-ups when taking people pictures. Lenses
and film backs are very good.
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998
From: Greg Vannasse [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: 6X12 conversions
Hello
I made a 6x12 out of a mamiya universal camera by opening the film
back to
6x12 and permanently mounting it on the camera. The older style cameras are
wide enough for 6x12. The latter models are not. I used a 75 mm lens. I
have not tried the 50 mm yet, but is should cover 6x12. I also mounted
a 100
mm w.f. ektar with focus mount to a film back for a camera. I am working on
one for a 65 mm sa. The film counter i just advance two times for each
picture(6x7 back). You lose one picture per roll. Greg
rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
From: "Dirk J. Bakker" [email protected]
[1] Re: Mamiya Universal
Date: Mon Jan 18 18:08:46 CST 1999
Hi John,
Yes of course, there are several models. The one I have (Model 2) can even
be used on the Mamiya Universal AND the RB67. I'd say it's as
indispensable as any of the regular film backs, if not more so! Probably,
you can find it new as I did mine.
HTH,
Dirk
John A. Bush wrote:
> Does anyone know if there has ever been a polaroid back available for a > Mamiya Universal (older rangefinder system)? I'm tired of waiting for > my prints to come back before finding little mistakes. I'd love to do > it right the first time.
rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
From: [email protected] (Tom Ferguson)
[1] Re: Mamiya Universal
Date: Tue Jan 19 19:54:05 CST 1999
[email protected] wrote:
>John A. Bush post: >>Does anyone know if there has ever been a polaroid back available for a >>Mamiya Universal - SNIP > > The polaroid back is the reason to own a Universal.
I too bought the Mamiya system (used) in order to get the Polaroid back.
Makes a GREAT test camera (much more flexible than a converted 110A)! The
Mamiya UNIVERSAL, not Super 23 or Standard, can use a Polaroid back. I
got mine from KEH or Midwest (both advertise in Shutterbug). Also "4
Designs" (800-468-3399) sells either new or reconditioned ones. I have
also been pleasantly surprised how good the optics are (for film) in this
very reasonably priced old system :-) Good luck.
Tom
--
[email protected]
http://www.thefstop.com/tf.html
[Ed. note: the polaroid 600 SE is a close but not exact variant...]
From Medium Format Digest:
From: tom meyer [email protected]
Subject: Response to do mamiya press lenses fit polaroid 600se
Date: 1999-01-23
Press lenses don't fit the 600SE. 75mm lenses are available but not
common, and need a matched veiwfinder. Roll film backs require a special
adapter made by a company called Four Designs in California. The 127mm is
a great portrait lens and if you set the frame lines in the camera to
150mm (switch on the back) they match the 127mm lens with a 6x7 roll film
back! (I use this camera alot)...
t
From: [email protected] (Tom Rittenhouse)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Lenses For Polaroid 600SE
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999
Dante Stella ([email protected]) wrote:
: Aren't they the same?
No, they have a different mount, as does the back.
While the Polaroid 600 SE and the Mamiya Universal look the
Same, and both were made by Mamiya, no one who has handled
both would think they are. The weights are very different,
the Universal is metal, the SE mostly plastic.
: > Anybody have any experience with adapting Non-Polaroid lenses for use with : > the 600 SE? Seems like the lenses for the Mamiya Universal are close?--
* Tom Rittenhouse (graywolf) *
* temporary e-mail address: [email protected] *
From: Steinar Jonsson [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Lenses For Polaroid 600SE
Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999
Lenses for the 600SE are 75/5.6, 127/4.7 and 150/5.6 .
The same optics were also available for the Mamiya Press.
Lens mounts are very similar, but the bayonet tabs are
different, making them incompatible.
The backs are also very similar, only details of the
back locking mechanism differ slightly.
Both the 600SE and the Universal Press need an adapter
for using roll film backs. A Mamiya Press adapter can be
adapted to the 600SE by switching parts from the
600SE pola back. Adapters made for the 600SE also exist.
The 600SE on the table in front of me is a precision but
rock-solid, rugged metal camera, in every detail as well
built as its Mamiya Press Deluxe brother sitting right
beside it. It is also heavier.
In use I prefer the 600SE because of its better viewfinder.
The 65 and 50mm wide angles, retractable normal lens
and back movements available with the Press Deluxe makes
me want to keep both.
Regarding the comparison between 600SE and Mamiya Universal,
I see a lot more similarities than differences. The age
difference shows, but if the Universal had still been made,
my guess is they would have been virtually identical.
They definitely belong to the same family of excellent and
(at least in my corner of the world) underrated cameras.
Steinar
From: "Tom Ferguson" [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Owners of Mamyia Press Cameras
Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999
Is there a specific question you have? I own both the Mamiya
Universal and Super 23 system. I also own a Pentax 67 system.
Is the Pentax sharper? You bet! Does the Pentax have less
flare? You bet! Does the Pentax have better contrast? You bet!
Is the Mamiya Press system amazingly versatile and high quality
for it's price? You bet! It totally blows away any "Seagull"
I've scene, and is noticelby sharper than my freinds "C330"
system. I should admit his C330 system is rather "beat", so that
may not be a fair general statement???
I bought the system when a "strange client" insisted on getting
6x9 transparencies. As I had wanted a polaroid "test camera" for
a long time: I "killed two birds with one stone".
Let us know what type of work you intend to do, and what
questions you have. There is no one best used system, it depends
on your needs.
--
Tom Ferguson
[email protected]
http://www.thefstop.com/tf.html
...
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000
From: [email protected] (Raskolnikov)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.technique.nature
Subject: Re: medium format
Think old, especially old Mamiya. The Twin lens reflexes are a good
system, with several lenses, and a zillion available used.
The Press/Universal series is even cheaper, and actually has better image
quality and a tilting back in some models. It's just cumbersome to shoot;
there is no idiot-proofing or interlocks of any kind. You wind the film
and cock the lens seperately, so it's easy to do one and not the other.
It'll cheerfully let you remove the back or lens without the darkslide in,
and will let you shoot roll after roll with the darkslide in. If you're
doing macro work with the extending back or extension tubes you can't use
the rangefinder and have to take the rollfilm back off, focus on a
groundglass back, then switch back to the rollfilm back to take your
picture. It has no meter, so you'll have to either get a handheld, or use
your 35mm camera's meter. That said, all of the lenses are quite sharp,
although you'll want to use a hood every time as they are flare-prone.
Depending on which back you buy, you can do 645, 6 x 6, 6 x 7 or even 6 x
9. I love mine; between my antique Mamiya and my digital, my 35mm gear is
spending most of its time in the closet.
Given a good tripod you can get very sharp long exposures since there is
neither a focal plane shutter nor moving mirror to induce camera shake on
either of these systems.
Even Minolta Autocords and Yashicamats will give you much better than 35mm
quality; they just don't have interchangeable lenses.
I'd stay away from antique folding cameras unless you really know what
you're doing; There are some gems, but there's some real crap too.
....
rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
From: "H. David Huffman" [email protected]
[1] Re: Help, is there a 6x9 camera?
Date: Sat Feb 12 17:50:11 CST 2000
The other thing about the Mamiya Press cameras is that the Universal model
is the only one that has a strong enough lens-mount that it can handle the
250mm lens. Have read this in many books and hand-books.
I have a Press 23 and a Super 23 and hope to acquire a Universal very
soon, plus a couple of lenses.
Dave
> One the other hand, look for a Mamiya press. The Standard is the simplest, > the Super23 has rear movements for perspective control, and the Universal > can take a Polaroid back. The lenses are high quality, and they are not > expensive at all. They are not particularly light or compact, though. And > they can do 6x7 and 6x9, and also 6x4.5 and 6x6 if you have masks for the > viewfinder and backs. > > Ed K > The Thalia Street Gallery, http://edkrebs.com
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000
From: [email protected] (Raskolnikov)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Masks for universal press
No, 6 x 9 is its native, "unmasked" size. Yes, there are 6 x 7 and 6 x 9
lever wind backs. They all do 120 and 220 ("Ruby window" backs like yours
can't take 220 because of the lack of backing paper.) As to the light
leak, it's basically a given that the foam light trap on the front of ANY
press back is dead by now; Mamiya still sells the original foam seals, or
you can cut pieces of foam, felt, whatever yourself. Mine has about $0.04
worth of felt doing the job quite nicely.
I've adjusted the rangefinder on my Super, and it's really very easy, but
you do need a ground glass back. (available on e-bay and elsewhere for
$50ish). Look through old posts in the Medium Format Digest
(http://photo.net//bboard/ then click on Medium Format Digest.) for a
description on how it works; I think the description they have is for a
Super, but a Universal should be the same. An earlier Press, however, is
completely different. In the meantime you could try focusing with the lens
markings and tape measure - if that yields sharp pictures then you know
it's the rangefinder. FWIW I think the Super and Universal cameras have
great, if slightly dim as they age and prone to misadjustment
rangefinders. The dogs were the rangefinders in the earlier Press
Standard/Deluxe. Shooting quickly in dark rooms my focus batting average
with my Super is way better than with my manual focus Minolta SLRs.
Also, in general the 100/3.5s were sharp, professional quality lenses, but
A) many people think some of the other Press lenses were a little sharper,
and B) lens, especially from this era, vary a good deal. One person could
have a dead-sharp 100/3.5 and another could have gotten "one that quality
control missed".
"Arlo T. Dog"
[email protected] wrote:
> As to the 100mm lens, the push-pull lens was made for the Super 23 which has a > bellows back for rear movements. You need to push the lens back in order to > focus when the back is extended. Of course, you would have to use a ground glass > back to use this feature. On your Universal, you would always use the lens > pulled out all the way. > > Most people, myself included, think that the 100mm is a pretty sharp lens. > > And yes, Mamiya makes a 6x9 back, the older ones have a knob wind, and newer > ones have a thumb lever wind. I think they all take 120 and 220 film. > > Sounds like you have an early multiformat back, and maybe the foam seals may > need to be replaced. > > Ed K > The Thalia Street Gallery, http://edkrebs.com
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000
From: Peter Caplow [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: mamiya lens question
To be precise, the lens is collapsible so that it can still be focused to
infinity when the back is extended for perspective or plane of focus
control.
Peter Caplow
[email protected] wrote:
> I just bought a mamiya super 23 with two lenses, one of them a 100mm > 3.5. > I have noticed that when turning the outer part of the lens it comes out > loose and it slides in and out as if I was focusing. A little plate in > the lens just by the X/M switch says Normal (with a little arrow under > it) > Is this some kind of Macro device? Or is it just that the lens is > busted? > thank you very much in advance.
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999
From: "Benno Jones" [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Mamiya Universal vs. Rapid Omega 200
I have a Mamiya Super 23 and give some general comments on the Mamiya
Press system, of which the Universal was the last model.
It is very flexible: you can shoot 6x4.5, 6x6, 6x7 and 6x9 with the
various film backs; you can get ground glass backs of 3 types for critical
focussing; you can change film backs in mid-roll, there are 55mm, 65mm,
75mm, 90mm, 100mm (f/2.8 and f/3.5), 150mm and 250mm (f/5 and f.8) lenses
available which have a great reputation for sharpness as do the film backs
for keeping the film flat; the Universal can accept multiple backs
allowing you to use Mamiya backs, Graflock backs and a Polaroid back.
It is TOTALLY manual. If you're doing macro work like I do using the
ground glass back for focussing the sequence for each picture is something
like this:
1. Open shutter for focussing.
2. Focus and determine exposure
3. Close shutter , set exposure settings and cock shutter
4. Remove ground glass back and replace with fim back
5. Remove dark slide from film back
6. Make exposure
7. Advance film
8. A. If making another exposure (e.g. if bracketing), repeat steps 3,
6
& 7.
B. If moving on to another picture, replace dark slide in film back
and replace film back with ground glass back, repeat from step 1.
C. If you've reached the end of the roll, replace the dark slide
and
rewind film.
Downsides:
1. At this point most Mamiya Press/Universal cameras and film
backs
need their light seals replaced. Not a hard task, but necessary.
2. Hand-holdable, but awkward and heavy - hard to control with a
long lens. Much easier to use as a quasi-view camera, especially due to
the manual nature of the camera.
3. As with all older cameras, not easy to get fixed if it breaks.
Of course, the Press series are built like tanks, so you shouldn't have a
lot
of problems.
I came down to the same choice that you're making and basically went with
the first good system that I was able to afford on Ebay.
I did a bunch of research online, take a look at the Medium Format Library
pages:
Table of Contents: http://www.smu.edu/~rmonagha/mf/
Mamiya Universal
Page: http://www.smu.edu/~rmonagha/mf/mamiyauniv.html
Rapid Omega Page: http://www.smu.edu/~rmonagha/mf/korapid.html
They both have great reputations and some well known flaws. Do your
research and decide what's best for you.
Benno Jones
Robert W. Brown wrote
>I'm looking for a second medium format camera (it must be much lower >cost than the first..) and am looking at either a Rapid-Omega 200 or a >Mamiya Universal. Does anyone out there have experience or knowledge of >both that could give me an idea of what the trade-offs might be? I >can't afford both and am not all that familiar with either. They both >sorta' seem like what I'm looking for.. I hope this doesn't start a >"Chevy vs. Ford" argument... > >Take care.... >Bob...
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000
From: "Arlo T. Dog" [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Mamiya Universal 6x7 as a starter medium fmt camera?
[email protected] wrote:
> I recently ran across a historic but functional beauty. The Mamiya > Universal. > > What is the forum's experience with this camera in general and as a > starter medium format camera for a MF newbie?
The Mamiya Press series are wonderful cameras. The most common problem
with them is rotting foam light seals on the backs, which can be fixed for
almost nothing. The lenses are sharp, and the Universal can take a
Polaroid back. There are no interlocks to prevent you from double
exposure, or removing lenses or backs without putting the dark slide in,
so you have to actually use your brain a little more than with a modern,
automatic system.
I have 2 of them, both found for cheep on eBay, and I like them very
much. That 6x9 negative is BIG!
Ed K
The Thalia Street Gallery, http://edkrebs.com
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000
From: "Londo" [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Mamiya Universal 6x7 as a starter medium fmt camera?
I had two and found the range finder difficult, if not impossible to
adjust (for three different lens). Therefore, it produced a lot of rubbish
(amongst some good stuff). I found its sheer size and bulkiness somewhat
limiting for travel and outdoors shooting. If you do stills and
architectural, you might find it alright, if there is action, it is pretty
"fumbly", six different things to do in the right sequence for every shot.
Unless you get the camera for an excellent price or have other compelling
resons, I'd go for something more handy (645s, Rollei, Plaubel Makina,
etc.).
....
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
From: "Londo" [email protected]
Subject: Re: Mamiya Universal Rangefinder camera. Lens question.
I had two (the Universal and the Press) with several lens and accessories,
including a Polaroid back. Although the cameras are technically and
mechanically fine products, I sold them to go to a 6x7 reflex. The main
reasons were: (aaa). They were relatively bulky cameras for outside use
(unless you disassemble them before putting them into the bag). (bbb).
More important, there were problems with the range-finder system, all lens
had a slightly different focus point and what was right for one lens was
slightly out-of-focus for for the other one. I produced a lot of rubbish
(poor focus, poor composition) inbetween a few good pictures. (ccc). The
procedure to get ready for a shot, or - even worse - change lens was too
slow for anything else but architectural or landscape. Again, there is
nothing wrong with the camera system, in particular, if you get it for a
good price. But for production shooting (weddings etc.) I definitely
prefer the reflex. It gives better a much better control over image
composition.
Luke Faulkenberry [email protected] wrote
> Hello, > > I am looking at a Mamiya Universal camera that I like very much. It has > interchangeable lenses, a leaf shutter, what seems like a very good > rangefinder, and a 6X7 back. It appears to be built like a tank. > > I know these have been used by wedding photographers and work well, but I do > not have a sense of how the lenses are for transparancy photography. Any > comments would be appreciated. > Thanks, > > Luke
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000
From: [email protected] (WS)
Subject: Re: Mamiya Universal Rangefinder camera. Lens question.
1. Each lens does have a "RF" adjustment independent of the camera's RF
adjustment. Knowledgeable repair people can handle this easily.
2. The lens range is pretty sound: 50, 65, 75, 100, 127, 150. The 50,
the 100 f/2.8 are exceptional lenses.
3. I like RF's. One drawback, however, is that the close focusing
distance for longer lenses is often "out there." But I think great
portraits can be done with the normal lens in any format.
4. Just like the Mamiya TLRs, the overall build quality is superb.
Just look at something like the tripod mount.
From: "Benno Jones" [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000
Subject: Re: Mamiya Universal Rangefinder camera. Lens question.
You missed the two 250mm lenses... f/5 and f/8 - note that due to the
stress put on the lens mount it is recommended only to use these lenses on
the Press Super-23 and Universal models.
I use my Super-23 for landscape and macro work (using the extension tube
set) and use the prism back (hard to find but worth it) for focusing
instead of the rangefinder.
Benno Jones
From: Tim Daneliuk [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000
Subject: Re: Mamiya Universal Rangefinder camera. Lens question.
I once owned one of these - they are excellent, especially with a
6x9 back. However, given the relatively few lenses available for
them and their rarity on the used market (compared to other
cameras in this price range), I would be disinclined to buy one
unless I could get an incredible deal on it - e.g., Under $200 for
the setup you describe with a lens.
They are fine for transparancies, BTW.
For my money, I'd look for a used Mamiya TLR, like a C22 or C220 -
there are way more lenses and accessories available on the used
market for this camera and they take wonderful pix. Having said
that, there is no question that the larger format of the Universal
is a real joy to shoot.
Take a look in Shutterbug or on eBay to get a sense of the
going prices for these toys...
Luke Faulkenberry wrote:
> Hello, > > I am looking at a Mamiya Universal camera that I like very much. It has > interchangeable lenses, a leaf shutter, what seems like a very good > rangefinder, and a 6X7 back. It appears to be built like a tank. > > I know these have been used by wedding photographers and work well, but I do > not have a sense of how the lenses are for transparancy photography. Any > comments would be appreciated. > > Thanks, > > Luke
From: Tom Ferguson [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000
Subject: Re: Mamiya Press/Super/Universal
I own the Super 23 and the Universal. I have never used the Standard.
You need a "M" adapter to use any Mamiya film back. The "G" adapter let
you use Graphlok film backs from various manufacturers.
You can change the backs mid roll, as long as the backs still have a
darkslide. Something to check when buying these (they aren't attached, so
are easily lost).
Amazingly nice system for the money. Flexible, good lenses (with the
exception of wide open softness and flare when shooting into a light
source), 6x9 backs (as well as 6x7), Polaroid (what I purchased the system
for). A bit heavy for the nature crowd, but built to last a few
lifetimes.
Have fun.
--
Tom Ferguson
http://www.ferguson-photo-design.com
> From: Hannu Lammi [email protected] > Subject: Mamiya Press/Super/Universal > > > hi, > > I'm considering buying a Mamiya Press system, and I'd like to > know a couple of things about it: > > What is the function of back adaptors? > There are adapters for (M)amiya and (G)raflok systems - do all > backs need an adapter, or are there backs which fit to the camera > without an adapter (in addition to Polaroid back for Universal)? > Are all backs changeable in mid-roll? > Do all systems (Standard, Super 23, Universal) use these adaptors?
From: "Benno Jones" [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000
Subject: Re: Mamiya Press/Super/Universal
The Press cameras (Standard, Super 23) come either with a Mamiya Back or a
Graflok back (fairly rare), it is not interchangeable. The Universal
takes the interchangeable M and G adapters (the Polaroid back attaches
directly to the camera with no adapter). The function is to allow use of
either Mamiya film backs or Graflok film backs. Opinion seems to run that
Mamiya backs have better film flatness than the various film backs made by
Graflex in its various incarnations. Modern Graflok film backs might be
better but are much more expensive. If you already have a 2x3 or 4x5
system with a Graflok back, getting a Press or Universal with a Graflok
back will allow you to keep using the same film backs you already use.
Try to only buy film backs with a dark slide. Then they are changeable
mid-roll, and you can also use one of the right-angle or magnifying
viewers for macro work with either the Super 23's bellows back or the
extenders for the Universal. These viewers attach to the back where the
film back attaches (Mamiya back only, I believe), so you have to remove
the film back to focus for each shot. Time consuming, but worth it for
macro work.
Also, be aware that the film backs come in several versions - 6x7, 6x9,
6x7 multiformat (6x7, 6x6, 6x4,5) and 6x9 multiformat (6x9, 6x6, 6x4.5).
Multiformat backs are often sold without the inserts and rangefinder masks
for the other formats. A complete set can be quite pricey. The
multiformat backs have knob wind with red windows instead of lever wind.
My system currently consists of a Super 23 body, 5 lenses (90mm f/3.5,
100mm f/3.5, 100mm f/2.8, 150mm f/5.6, 250mm f/8), 2 6x9 backs, 1 6x7
back, 1 6x7 multiformat back (with inserts and masks), right-angle finder,
extension tube set, ground glass back and 2 6x9 film pack adapters (not
that 6x9 film packs are made anymore....). That just leaves me 4 lenses
to go and a few accessories to go.... :-)
I like the system very much and have no problem with the totally manual
nature of the system, although I've seen some posts by people who can't
get used to it.
Benno Jones
...
From: [email protected] (DMLStar)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Date: 08 Jul 2000
Subject: Re: Mamiya Press/Super/Universal
Benno"s comments are quite complete. As far as I know the polaroid back
only fits the Universal. There are two M backs for the Universal, a
horizonal (common) and a vertical( rarer). Both the Universal and Super
have older versions with fixed M backs (common) and graflex backs (rarer).
The lenses available include 50 mm, 65 mm, 75 mm, 90 mm, 100 (2.8 and
3.5), 127 mm, 150 mm and 250 mm. I believe I believe the 50, 65and 75
lenses have accessoriy finders. Polaroid marketed a version of the modern
Mamiya but the lenses are not interchagable with the Mamiya brand. The
older lenses came in a silver front dial version while the newer lenses
are all black. The M roll film backs need to have the foam light seals
checked if you find evidence of light leaks in your first roll. One can
either make them yourself with foam that is sticky on one side ( availble
from microtools one the net) or order them from Mamiya. I believe the
manual for the modern camera is down loadable from the mamiya site in PDF
format.
It appears to be built like a tank and can take a number of hits. Repair
books are regularly sold on ebay.
D
From: [email protected] (Heavysteam)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Date: 11 Jul 2000
Subject: Re: Mamiya RB 67 Ground Glass
The "Focusing Screen Adapter 604300" is actually an accessory adapted from
the Mamiya Press camera. To use it, you will need to remove the revolving
back adapter and install the "P" adapter 514350 and either the vertical
(514340) or horizontal (604300) "M" adapter. A magnifying focusing back
(608210) or right angle focusing back (608200) was available to use on the
ground glass adapter. NOTE: The P and M adapters were dropped for the
Pro SD system. I don't know if they will fit on a Pro SD-- Mamiya can
tell you.
From: Robert Stewart [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format,rec.photo.equipment.large-format
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000
Subject: Re: Cokin P too small?
The only Mamiya Press lens which is too large for the Cokin P series is
the 250 f/5 which takes a 105mm filter. None of the other lenses take
filters larger than 72mm.
....
From: Robert Stewart [email protected]
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Mamiya Universal Rangefinder camera. Lens question.
1. You also missed the 90, although it's not one of the better lenses in
the series.
2. I don't think the 100 and the 150 have independent RF adjustments, but
the others do. Bob Keller at Four Designs in Vancouver, WA can adjust the
lenses, he took at 75 someone had reassembled wrong and set it dead on for
me.
3. You can reduce the close focus with the slimmest of the extension ring
combinations (Nos.1 and 2 on a 100 w/ range of 3' 3" to 1' 3"), but will
have to use the ground glass or right angle finder (not prism) to focus.
WS wrote:
> 1. Each lens does have a "RF" adjustment independent of the camera's RF > adjustment. Knowledgeable repair people can handle this easily. > 2. The lens range is pretty sound: 50, 65, 75, 100, 127, 150. The 50, > the 100 f/2.8 are exceptional lenses. > 3. I like RF's. One drawback, however, is that the close focusing > distance for longer lenses is often "out there." But I think great > portraits can be done with the normal lens in any format. > 4. Just like the Mamiya TLRs, the overall build quality is superb. > Just look at something like the tripod mount.
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001
From: [email protected] (Thom)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Mamiya Press Super 23
[email protected] (Mark
Anderson) wrote:
>I'm looking for 1st hand experience and opinions of the Mamiya Press >Super 23, esp. re weight, handiness, etc. Does a roll film back get in >the way of using the viewfinder? Is any focusing done on the lens, or >by extending the back? Does the rangefinder only work with the back >closed up? Sorry, but I've never seen one in person, just looked at >photos and am trying to figure out just how this thing handles. I.e. Do >I want it? > >-- >Mark Anderson > DBA Riparia www.teleport.com/~andermar/ >"The trouble with good ideas > is that they soon degenerate into a lot of hard work." Anon.
I still have mine though its in storage at the moment. I have done
great things with it and only use my RB-67 now because I bought a near
new 50mm WA lens for the RB for US$23 at a liquidation sale! I
couldn't find one for the S-23 under US$600.
I use the 6x7 and 6x9 backs and when I get back to the States I'll be
hunting for the multi-format K back for it.
The lenses are razor sharp especially the 150mm and you get better
shots because theres no mirror banging around like in the RB/RZ. Both
have their place but the S-23 is probably the best all around 6x7/6x9
you can get. It isn't a great action camera but I used it for trains
for years. You get half the shots you would with a 35mm but still
with practice you can cock and wind pretty fast.
THOM
From: Tom Ferguson [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001
Subject: Re: Mamiya Press Super 23
> From: [email protected] (Mark Anderson) > Subject: Mamiya Press Super 23
It is a nice system, I use it mainly as a Polaroid proof camera, but do
put film through it as well.
> I'm looking for 1st hand experience and opinions of the Mamiya Press Super 23, > esp. re weight, handiness, etc. Does a roll film back get in the way of using > the viewfinder?
This has not been a problem for me.
> Is any focusing done on the lens, or by extending the back?
Normal (non macro / non swings and tilt) focusing is done with the
rangefinder. If you want closeups or swings and tilts (note: there is no
"rise" available) then you need to use the ground glass back and treat it
like a mini view camera (rangefinder in totally inaccurate in these modes)
> Does the rangefinder only work with the back closed up?
Yes (see above)
> Sorry, but I've never seen one in person, just looked at photos and am trying > to figure out just how this thing handles. I.e. Do I want it?
Positives: Hard to break, cheap, good quality sharp glass (see comment
below about flare), Polaroid back as well as everything from 6x4.5 to 6x9
available, syncs flash at any speed, limited view camera movements.
Negatives: single coated lenses are sharp but prone to flare (use a
shade), need for separate viewfinders for some lenses, heavy, doesn't
focus close in normal/rangefinder mode (will not do a head and shoulders
shot), chances are very good you will need to have all foam replaced an
any film backs you purchase.
Hope that helps
--
Tom Ferguson
http://www.ferguson-photo-design.com
From: Steinar Jonsson [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001
Subject: Re: Mamiya Press Super 23
....
Mark,
I have no problems with the back getting in the way. If you are left-eyed
you will have to take it away from your eye when winding film, or the
winding lever will hit your nose. For wide angle lenses you use a separate
viewfinder in the accessory shoe, this is completely out of the way.
Each lens has its own focusing barrel.
If you use the back extension and want to focus at infinity, you will
need a collapsible lens.
The rangefinder only works with the back closed and lens extended.
To really use the back movements you need the ground glass back.
The cameras are big, heavy and cumbersome. You have to remember to
wind the film after exposures, cock the shutter before exposures,
insert the dark slide before changing lens or back, remove dark
slide before making exposures, remove and remount cable release
when changing lenses. I lost a number of pictures before
all this became second nature.
I like these cameras A LOT. Despite the size, weight and manual
controls I find them strangely comfortable to use, that is, in
relaxed situations, close to house or car. But then I also
enjoy using cameras like old Nikons, TLRs and folders, so I may
not be all that typical.
The lenses are pretty good IMO. I don't have any scientific
evidence to support this, but I've used Hasselblads and Plaubels,
and I don't think Mamiya has anything to be ashamed of.
You can find more facts and opinions at this terrific site:
http://www.smu.edu/~rmonagha/mf/cameras.html
Regards
Steinar Jonsson
[email protected]
From: Roy Harrington [email protected]
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Mamiya Press Super 23
...
Hi Mark,
Your questions have tweaked my interest so I decided to look around
the net and here's a few info sites I found.
http://www.smu.edu/~rmonagha/mf/mamiyas23.html
http://www.mediakyoto.com/camerashopper/cla_came_e/mamiya_s23_e/index_e.html
I got the impression that its neither small nor light, but it does
have some nice features.
Roy
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001
From: Kirk [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.marketplace.medium-format
Subject: Re: Mamiya Press lenses & backs
[email protected]
says...
> Does anyone have any lenses or backs for Mamiya Press cameras? > I have two bodies a 65mm, 90mm and 100mm lens and need 127mm, 150mm lenses > as well as 6X7 and 6X9 backs. I have a Beseler 23C color head/power supply > to trade and a few other things, as well as SOME cash.
There are often some on eBay, but the Master Mamiya Press Maven in my
opinion is Tony Sansone. Check out:
http://members.home.net/gmhsint/
He is not cheap. He has done a total rebuild of everything he sells,
so you're paying for the part plus an extensive overhaul.
OTOH, he also sells partially overhauled items (fixing everything
that's not right, rather than actually making it "just like new") for
about what an "excellent +" item would sell for retail.
Read his site and then give him a call...but be prepared to have your
ear bent by his enthusiasm for Mamiya Press equipment.
--
Kirk
From Rangefinder Mailing List:
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [RF List] Mamiya Press/Super 23/Universal family
> Yes, I've wasted a half roll of film here and there > when I forgot to remove the dark slide from the film holder
You want the type 3 roll film back. This has interlocks to prevent
shooting with the slide in, double exposure, advancing film without
exposing.
I owned a Super23 for a while. Found it very big and bulky. The lenses
are not a patch on the German Plaubel optics. Sold it for those reasons.
But each to his own, if it works for you, and you like the results, keep
using it.
Date: 9 Aug 2001
From: [email protected] (Jeff Sumner)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Mamiya Universal Press vs. Polaroid version
[email protected] (Anton Elron)
wrote:
> What are the advantages and disadvantages of each?
Universal:
Takes Mamiya 's'shaped backs (120+220)
Has wide selection of lenses (50, 65, 75,90,100 f-2.8 & f-3.5, 127,
150, and 250)
Has a huge availability of different accessories, including ground
glass backs of many and varied types (right angle viewer, etc)
Polariod 600SE:
Has selection of lenses (75, 127, 150)
Takes modified film backs, usually bought as a special accessory
(camera intended for use as Polaroid)
Lenses are newer and possibly better coated (though there is yet to be
proof of any difference)
Cameras are probably newer and possibly have less use.
Usually black, therefore looking somewhat cooler (in my opinion)
Shutters and parts for all lenses are still available.
Both are bulky and hard to pack- though not terribly heavy. Both are
rather slow to operate in comparison to a 35mm point and shoot (or a
6x6 TLR for that matter) Both have absolutely no idiot protection- if
you really want to change lenses without using dark-slides, go right
ahead, the camera won't stop you.
Personally, I have a Universal, with a number of lenses, including the
127p especially designed to cover full field Polariod. I have 2
Polaroid backs that I use, I have a number of the Mamiya film holder
backs in which I usually run 220, and I have other accessories to make
the system extrordinarily versatile.
Both are capable systems, from street photography (with the right
lenses) to almost point-and-shoot operation (fast film, stop down to
f-22 using a wide lens- I use the 65mm- set hyperfocal and a metered
shutter speed and SHOOT and wind (wind, wind, cock the lens) and SHOOT
and wind (wind, wind, cock the lens) and certainly family photography.
I've caught action shots with mine- I've the sport finder.
I sing the praises of the system, but I've had great results. I love
it when the guy who owns the lab gives me my contacts himself and asks
me how I got the negatives so 'punchy'- what rig I had been using, and
it is the 25 year old Universal with the 35 year old 65mm lens.
Good luck- good choice in camera systems.
JD
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001
From: "Nicholas O. Lindan" [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Mamiya Universal Press vs. Polaroid version
Anton Elron wrote:
> What are the advantages and disadvantages of each?
The polaroid variant takes its own lenses. The lenses and shutters
are newer and still serviced.
The Universal will take a polaroid back, however, and there is
a greater selection and availability of lenses and accessories.
Most folks would pick the Universal. People needing a dedicated
pro level Polaroid would pick the Polaroid version - though how
long Polaroid is going to be around is anyone's guess: "not
long" is my take on it.
--
Nicholas O. Lindan
From: [email protected] (Roger Krueger) Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Mamiya: Super 23 vs Universal Date: 12 Dec 2001 The information that the Super 23 could not use the 250/5 is simply wrong. The cameras that can't use this lens are the Standard 23 and the Deluxe. And it's not just a "recommendation" - there's a pin on the mount that physically prevents mounting on the older cameras. I believe the 75 also has these mount issues, but I've never owned one, so I can't say for sure. In any event, the Super 23 mount is EXACTLY the same as the Universal mount. The Super 23 also has exactly the same finder as the Universal, although for both cameras the black version has a slightly different finder than the chrome version. (On the black version the front glass is smaller than the opening - magnification is the same, but you barely get to see past the 100 mm framelines - on the chrome version the front glass uses all of the opening, allowing you to see well past the 100mm framelines - you can use it like a sportsfinder.) The less-useful finder is the one on the older Standard 23/Deluxe - it's especially inaccurate if you wear glasses, while the later Super/Universal finder works fine with glasses.
From: [email protected] (Major Major Major Major) Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Mamiya: Super 23 vs Universal Date: 30 Nov 2001 "dan.te" [email protected]> wrote: > Which is the better between these two cameras? > I'm gettin to buy one of them but I don't these camera's purpuose. > thanks > Better? What would qualify as 'better' to you? Both are stictly bodies that hold film holders and lenses... The Super 23 has a 'M' back (or a rather rare Graflex type) permanently attached to a moveable back. It holds almost all lenses, the 250mm-s and 75 mm being the exceptions. To use the moveable back requires the use of the retractable 100mm or 90mm lenses. The Universal doesn't have the moveable back but it does have the brightest finder, brightest frame-lines and handles all lenses designed for the entire series. It also has a Universal back meaning that one can mount Mamiya backs, Graflex backs, or even a Polaroid backs. Great cameras. I have a Universal. When I want 'swing' in a back I go with the Speed Graphic. JD
From: Benno Jones [email protected]> Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Mamiya Super 23 - loss of light - extension tubes Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 The Super-23 manual gives the following info: NOTE: The Exposure Factors given are for using ALL 5 extension rings with the lens focused to the closest distance and the back fully extended (They give no other info for individual rings) LENS MAGNIFICATION EXPOSURE FACTOR 65mm f/6.3 2.12 9.7 100mm f/3.5 1.46 6.0 150mm f/5.6 0.98 3.9 250mm f/5.6 0.66 2.8 By my own experience, I have successfully attached a Vivitar Microflash 5000 ring flash to the front of the 100mm f/3.5 using a series of step-up rings to eliminate the extended exposure times. I have also computed exposure factors for each ring using a formula I found by doing some searching on the web through Google. I don't have the data handy, however, to share. Good luck! Benno Jones Pittas Marios wrote: > > I am using one of these cameras with no information about the loss of > light when using their extension tubes. > > I did some work with them last wekened but I had to waste a lot of > shots (bracketing) and time (using AGFA 25, with the 150mm lens set at > f/45 - with a two complete sets of tubes, exposure was around 8 min)!. > > Many thanks in advance > > Marios -- See my homepage at http://www.bjonesphoto.com
From: Benno Jones [email protected]> Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Mamiya: Super 23 vs Universal Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2001 It was my understanding (and in practice this seems to be true) that both the Super 23 and the Universal can use all the system lenses, the earlier models cannot use the 250mm f/5 lens as their mounts are not strong enough to support the weight. I've seen this info in several reports on the Mamiya Press series of cameras and not other reason at all for not using the heavier lenses on the earlier cameras. I've used both the 250mm f/8 and the 250mm f/5 on my Super 23 with no problems at all. The 75mm (as well as the 127mm) is optimized for the polaroid format and in fact has a larger image circle than the rest of the lenses. No literature or sites that I have read have said anything about the 75mm not being useable on the Super 23. What info can you share about this? 127mm & 75mm lenses made for the Polaroid 600SE cannot mount on the Super 23 or Universal as the mount is different. B. Jones Major Major Major Major wrote: > > "dan.te" [email protected]> wrote: > > > Which is the better between these two cameras? > > I'm gettin to buy one of them but I don't these camera's purpuose. > > thanks > > > > > Better? What would qualify as 'better' to you? Both are stictly bodies > that hold film holders and lenses... > > The Super 23 has a 'M' back (or a rather rare Graflex type) > permanently attached to a moveable back. It holds almost all lenses, > the 250mm-s and 75 mm being the exceptions. To use the moveable back > requires the use of the retractable 100mm or 90mm lenses. > > The Universal doesn't have the moveable back but it does have the > brightest finder, brightest frame-lines and handles all lenses > designed for the entire series. It also has a Universal back meaning > that one can mount Mamiya backs, Graflex backs, or even a Polaroid > backs. > > Great cameras. I have a Universal. When I want 'swing' in a back I go > with the Speed Graphic. > > JD
From: [email protected] (DMLStar) Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Date: 02 Dec 2001 Subject: Re: Mamiya: Super 23 vs Universal The Universal accepts interchangeable backs.Universal has 2 different backs available. The G back which takes the Graflex style or international style roll film backs and the M back which takes the S shaped Maniya roll film backs. The Universal also accepts a Polaroid Back that has an M style mount that fits on the bare back of the camera. The Super has a non-unterchangeable back. From what I've seen about 98% of these are M backs. The other 2% have a G style back. The Super has a short bellows in the back that allows some flexibility similar to the Linhoff cameras. Use of the bellows requires the M focusing screen attachment which fits the M style back. A good point to start is to down load the manuals from mamiya.com. Another site run by Bob Pacqutte(sp?) called BigCamera.com talks about Mamiya Press camera. Other than the differences in the backs the rest of the cameras are identical. All the ones I have seen seem to come with a small predented mark on the top of the camera. This doesn't seem to effect the cameras which seem to be built like tanks Both cameras accept spacers front and rear (rare) that allow close up pictures. DL.
[Ed. note: probably long sold, but for info on the item and source...] From: "Jerry Solinger" jsolinge@columbus .rr.com Newsgroups: rec.photo.marketplace Subject: FS: "M" Adapter for Polaroid 600SE Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 Here is the special "M" adapter which will permit you 600SE owners to use Mamiya rollfilm holders and other Mamiya accessories on your 600SE camera. I bought this adapter for about $100 from the Four Designs Company, which specializes in Polaroid equipment modifications. It's yours for $70, which includes shipping and insurance within the 48 states. The adapter is in mint condition. Let me know if you want me to send you a photo via e-mail Please contact: Jerry Solinger [email protected]
From: [email protected] (Michael Gudzinowicz) Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Mamiya Universal Polaroid Date: 16 Aug 2002 [email protected] (David Stein) wrote: > Was there a "P" focusing back for the Mamiya Universal so one could do > closeup work with the Polaroid pack material? Scanned from the Universal brochure: MAMIYA UNIVERSAL ACCESSORIES INTERCHANGEABLE BACKS* 1. Mamiya ("M") Back permits use of Mamiya film holders; also accepts Mamiya ground glass attachment. 2. Graflok ("G") Back accepts Graflok-type accessories. 3. Polaroid ("P") Back/Holder accepts Polaroid 100 packs (picture area 3 x 3 3/4). MAMIYA BACK ACCESSORIES 4. Rapid Rollfilm Holder A (6x9) accepts 120 and 220 film interchangeably; gives 8 (2 1/4 x 3 1/4) exposures with 120, and 16 with 220 film. Has rapid-advance lever and auto-reset counter adjustable for 8 and 16 exposures, respectively. Rapid Rollfilm Holder B (6x7) same as A, but gives 10 (2 1/4 x 2 3/4) exposures with 120, and 20 with 220 film. 5. Ground Glass Back & Focusing Hood accepts sheet film/plate holders and film pack adapter in spring-loaded compartment. 6. Sheet Film/Plate Holder fits into ground glass back, uses 2 1/4 X 3 1/4 emulsions. 7. Film Pack Adapter for standard 520 packs. Fits into ground glass back. 8. Right-angle Focusing Back permits ground-glass viewing and focusing from above, below or either side. Especially valuable for copying and closeup work. Embodies magnifying eyepiece, right-angle mirror and ground-glass panel. Eyelevel Focusing Back permits ground-glass viewing and focusing at eyelevel. Valuable for copying and closeup work. Embodies magnifying eyepiece, enclosed hood and ground-glass panel. VIEWFINDERS 9. Optical Viewfinder P* shows coverage of 3 x 3 1/4 [Polaroid) field with 75, 100 and 127mm lenses. Fits camera accessory shoe. 10. Viewfinder Mask for camera range/viewfinder, shows Polaroid coverage with 150 and 250mm lenses. 11. Polaroid Ground Glass Back & Focusing Hood fits directly onto camera body. Shows full 3 x 3 1/4 picture area; also outlines 2 1/4 x 3 1/4 and 2 1/4 x 2 3/4 formats. 12. Sportsfinders folding frame finders fit onto camera accessory shoe, show 100, 150 and 250mm lens fields. Available for 2 1/4 x 3 1/4 or 2 1/4 x 2 3/4 formats OTHER ACCESSORIES 13. Extension Tube Set for closeup photography using any lens up to 150mm. Comprises 5 tubes; may be used in various combinations. With 100mm f3.5 lens, magnification ranges from 0.91x to 1.14x. (Note: Range using all 5 rings and far to near focus.) 14. Back Extension Spacer Set for closeup photography. Comprises two spacers that fit between Universal camera body and any of 3 backs. Either or both spacers may be used, for magnifications up to 1.51x (with 75mm lens). 15. 1:1 Copying Outfit consists of camera support frame, set of 4 legs, leg extensions and vinyl mat showing coverages of 3 formats with 75mm, 100mm and 127mm lenses. Used in conjunction with Back Extension Spacers. 16. Tripod Adapters Model 60722 permits camera to be mounted on tripod for vertical shots; interchanges with hand grip. Model P* is designed for horizontal shots with Polaroid back on tripod-mounted camera. 17. Flashgun Brackets for attaching press-type flash units to side of camera opposite hand grip. Available for either Graflite or Heiland fitting. 18. Compartment Case luxurious, reinforced case, partitioned to hold camera, lenses and accessories. Includes shoulder strap. 19. Optical Glass Filters ground and polished to optical flatness and hard-coated. Wide variety available, in screw-in mounts to fit all lenses. 20. Eyepiece Correction Lenses available in 7 diopter powers, from plus 3 to minus 4. 21. Tetraphoto Prism Lens Attachment for identification photos and similar applications. Used with 127mm lens to produce simultaneously 4 images of subject on Polaroid format. Includes mask insert for exposing selected film areas if desired.
From: "Q.G. de Bakker" [email protected] Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Mamiya Super 23 tilt at infinity Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 Roland wrote: > If infinity is in focus when the lens is fully back and the back plate fully > forward then how is it possible to use tilt to focus near and far? If you > tilt then the back is further from the lens and so infinity can not be in > focus. Unless I am missing something, of course. You can't, unless the film back tilt axis is situated somewhere in the image plane. Then one part is moved even closer (focussing "beyond infinity") to the lens, and one part further away from the lens, while the part on axis stays focussed on infinity. You then probably will want to move the back plate away from the lens. Should the film back tilt axis lie outside the image, then all of the image will be moved away from infinity focus lens-to-film distance indeed. Not nice when that happens.
From: huffy49 huffy49@comcast_.net Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Q: Mamiya Super 23 tilt at infinity Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 "Roland" [email protected] wrote: >If infinity is in focus when the lens is fully back and the back plate fully >forward then how is it possible to use tilt to focus near and far? If you >tilt then the back is further from the lens and so infinity can not be in >focus. Unless I am missing something, of course. Sheesh... Roland, ignore the other posts. You aren't missing anything. The Super 23 lens tilt feature was designed to be used primarily with the 100mm f/3.5 lens that has the ability to collapse into the lens mount. Similar to the same feature on the 50mm f/3.5 Elmar, it was designed to provide greater rear focus rather than provide "pocketability". The feature is mext to useless on wide angle lenes, but is useful for closeups with the 150mm lens, and perhaps the 250mmas well. John
From: "Swampdog" Not@home Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Mamiya standard 23 Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 http://www.photobooksonline.com/books/userbk11MF.html http://echobox.com/mamiya/MainFrame.htm http://www.mamiya.com/customerservice1.asp?id=3&id2=115 click on rangefinder in the download list. Select Universal Swampy "Bob Monaghan" [email protected] wrote > try http://medfmt.8k.com/mf/mamiyauniv.html for related notes and links > the mamiya usa website has a user forum, some activity there too ;-) > hth bobm
From: "David Harper" [email protected] Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Mamiya standard 23 Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 Hi All, Anyone out there using or experienced with the mamiya S23, I just got one off Ebay (couldn't bet the price $125), it has the mutli format 6x9 back, 90mm lens, GG, and grip. Any advise/suggestions or warnings you can give will be greatly appreciaited. And before anyone says get a newer camera, I like the older camera I've already got a Crown Graphic 23 (6x9), and a Moskva-4 (6x6, 6x9) , both of which take excellent photos. The mamiya S23 is just my latest toy. Any links to manuals, info, etc. Would be great! TIA David [email protected]
From: Jeff Sumner [email protected] Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Ground glass in Polaroid back? Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 Lassi Hippelainen [email protected] wrote: > [email protected] wrote: > > > > I was wondering if there was a ground glass part manufactured to fit > > into a Polaroid 600 series back. You know the on on the back of the > > Polaroid 600SE. > > Thanks in advance for any information. > > Just guessing: shouldn't it be compatible with Mamiya Press backs? > > -- Lassi Not exactly- there are lugs on the 600E to prevent such things. There are ways around those lugs, though, mostily involving a Dremel... Then ALL Mamiya Universal attachments will work. JD
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