Related Links:
Mamiya 7 (6x7cm rangefinder)
Mamiya 7 Rangefinder (6x7)
Mamiya 7 Rangefinder Review
Mamiya 6/7 Related Posts in Medium Format Digest

The Mamiya 7 is a highly regarded, portable rangefinder shooting 6x7cm images (unlike its 6x6cm predecessor, the Mamiya 6 RF, which is different from the Mamiya 6 folder). The lenses are considered to be some of the best lenses in terms of performance ever tested (see Lens tests). The new long telephoto lens is more problematic (uncoupled, accessory finder).

The reviews and links above will highlight some of the features and limitations of the Mamiya 7 rangefinder. If you haven't used a rangefinder, I would recommend trying out one by renting or borrowing one first. Otherwise you could take substantial losses if you buy new and have to sell back as used equipment.

Prices for Mamiya 7 range widely, with many non-USA sites offering substantial discounts (but without Mamiya/USA's warranties). See Buying OVerseas guide for savings of 40-60% on new, internationally warranteed equipment.

If the multi-kilobuck costs of a mamiya 7 kit distresses your limited budget, look into alternatives such as the Fuji rangefinders and the Koni-Omega press (see Camera Library Pages links). The Koni-Omega is particularly interesting since it is a rangefinder, 6x7cm, and the lenses were made (at one time period) by Mamiya. Some of the KO Cameras provide for interchangeable film inserts and even interchangeable backs! The KO is also available for $250 USD for the basic body/90mm lens/back kit, and the 58/60mm and 180mm lenses are only a few hundred dollars more. The KO lenses were also the only other ones testing above 90 lpmm, besides the Mamiya 7 lenses, and beating the Hasselblad and Bronica lenses in many cases.

The table below shows how the Mamiya 7 rangefinder lens center/edge resolution were reported in one photo magazine (see Popular Photography August, 2000 issue for more details and data). Virtually all values rate as excellent (with the * corresponding to very good values). While these values are more conservative than those reported elsewhere (see test results), the pattern of the lens performance and range of values is a key to optimally using these optics.

As I generally advocate, you still need to test your own lens to ensure it isn't a lemon and determine where its optimal performance lies, due to lens variations factors. So use this table as a guide, rather than an absolute source of comparative values. Only if the tests are done by the same tester, with the same techniques and standards, can you use such values for truly comparative purposes (and not the absolute values, which are subjective in human lens resolution test chart tests). Nonetheless, the Mamiya 7 lenses have acquired an impressive reputation for high resolution. The fact the camera is lightweight and has no moving mirror (as with SLRs) and is a leaf shutter (rather than a heavy and massive focal plane 6x7cm shutter) also no doubt help improve its performance!

rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
From: [email protected] (MikeD37255)
[1] The best Medium Format Camera
Date: Tue Jun 23 12:41:41 CDT 1998

After using the Mamiya 7 system for several years for professional use, I have found it to be the BEST camera available to pros. It's lens system comprises focal lengths from 21 to 72 (in 35mm format), a good range for 98 per cent of all work. The lenses are sharp, the quality is second to none, and I have never been disappointed with any of the images produced by this fine camera.

I have used it in hot and cold climates, high humidity, sunlight, moonlight, and on the beach. It has never failed me once. The metering system is so accurate, it is uncanny.

Using a polarizer and special effects filters are as easy as pie. I can carry this camera and all four lenses around with me all day and don't feel tired. It fits in your hand like a glove.

I also use the new Fuji GA 645Zi and find it to be such a fun camera to use, it goes everywhere with me now. Sometimes I have a hard time deciding which to use! I use both in professional work and the results always please my clients.

The Mamiya 7 is so quiet when doing portraits or location church work that people don't even know their picture was taken. Same for street use.

Anyone thinking of buying a P&S should save their money and get one these systems. Don't get them on credit.....save up first.

Mike

rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
From: [email protected] (James Chow)
[1] Re: The best Medium Format Camera
Date: Wed Jun 24 23:25:31 CDT 1998

I use a Rollei 6008i, but always wonder if I should buy the M7 over the GA645i for a carry-it-around-everywhere camera. For that, it's kind of large. But what's tempting is that the M7 is so inexpensive in Tokyo! Next to the GA645i (non-zoom) and Fuji rangefinders, it's the least expensive MF camera you can buy! You can buy the body w/ 80 and 43mm lenses for less than the price of a Nikon F5 body! The markup in the US on Mamiya is about 100%!

--Jim

I am far fI use a Rollei 6008i, but always wonder if I should buy the M7 over the GA645i for a carry-it-around-everywhere camera. For that, it's kind of large. But what's tempting is that the M7 is so inexpensive in Tokyo! Next to the GA645i (non-zoom) and Fuji rangefinders, it's the least expensive MF camera you can buy! You can buy the body w/ 80 and 43mm lenses for less than the price of a Nikon F5 body! The markup in the US on Mamiya is about 100%!

--Jim

From: [email protected] (RLCaldwell)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: ! Need advice with Mamiya 7. Pros and cons?
Date: 25 Jun 1998

I am far from an expert on this camera, but I did rent one for a week just to try it out. I suggest you do the same. Rental is only a few % of the very expensive purchase price and may save you some grief. rom an expert on this camera, but I did rent one for a week just to try it out. I suggest you do the same. Rental is only a few % of the very expensive purchase price and may save you some grief.

I found the camera to be easy and natural to use. It has interlocks to avoid major problems such as double exposure and changing lenses with the film vulnerable. The lens changes are quick and easy, even on a tripod. The camera is comfortable to handle and can be used handheld. The controls are where you expect them to be and intuitive to use.

The major drawback to me was the lack of interchangeable backs. Other problems were the 'bright line' frame lines that tended to disappear in some landscapes and the fact that the lens barrel was visible through the viewfinder with the 65mm lens. Had to keep checking what was going to be in that lower right hand corner. And of course there is that old bugaboo with range finders: forgetting to remove the lens cap.

The strap suspends the camera sideways, which I found to be a minor nuisance.

I can't evaluate the metering because I always use a spot meter. But in spite of unfamiliarity, etc., the 60 negatives I exposed (I'm a slow photographer) came out just fine. (Well except for that one where I forgot to put the red filter in front of the lens.)

The camera really is like an overgrown 35mm SLR in use. But when you see the "ideal format" 6x7 negatives you know you have stepped up to another level.

Bob

rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
From: [email protected] (LMG50)
[1] Re: ! Need advice with Mamiya 7. Pros and cons?
Date: Mon Jun 29 11:58:39 CDT 1998

> And of course there is that old bugaboo with range finders:
>>forgetting to remove the lens cap

I am a former 35mm SLR user who found the lens cap problem to be the biggest problem moving up to the Mamiya7. I have taped flexible black plastic to the lens cap so that it covers the top of the lens barrel when the cap is on. That way, I can't work the lens with the cap on. Works for me.

Lee Goodwin

From: [email protected] (Gene Windell)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: MF System to Replace 35mm Wide Angle
Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998

John Koch wrote:


>Looking back over the last couple of years of photographs, I have found
>that I am taking a significant number of enlargable images with my 20mm
>lens.  Most of these are scenics and/or architectural subjects.
>However, I am running into the usual limitations on 35mm format, namely
>lack of detail in enlargements from wideangles.
>
>What MF system would enable me to get the larger images in a view angle
>equivalent to the 20mm (in 35 format)?
>
>I was wondering primarily about the Mamiya 7 rangefinder or the Fuji 6X7
>or 6X9 rangefinders.  Any opinions on either of those systems?  Also,
>since the Mamiya 7 does have interchangeable lenses, how is that for
>portraits?  (My understanding is that it does not focus very
>closely.)    I should mention that I am reluctant to purchase a system
>that can only do scenics, since my second favorite subjects are
>portraits.  Is there any one system that can do it all?
>
>Thanks for the help.

John,

If one is accustomed only to 35mm format, the images produced by either the Fuji rangefinders or Mamiya 7 will knock your socks off and take your breath away.

For the money, the Fuji rangefinder cameras can't be beat. But since they have no built-in light meter, and hand-held meter will have to be factored into the total cost if you don't already have one. And while the 90mm fixed lens is a good all purpose focal length, there is no possibility to switching to anything else.

The Mamiya 7 is a bit lighter than the Fujis, it has a very accurate and useful built-in light meter, aperture preferred exposure automation in addition to manual control, and a superior rangefinder that can be focused in almost total darkness.

The 43mm f/4.5 Mamiya lens is roughly equivalent in angle of view to the 21mm focal length in 35mm format. But by being a true wide-angle design, rather than the reverse-telephoto design required by the 35mm format cameras, the edge sharpness is much higher and the distortion is much lower - in addition to providing more richly detailed images.

According to the Mamiya literature, the 150mm f/4.5 lens has a minimum focusing distance of 1.8 meters and a 34 degree diagonal angle of view - which equates to a 71mm lens in the 35mm format. However, the horizontal angle of view is more relevant in real-world photography - and for this specification the angle of view is 26 degrees and equivalent to the 78mm focal length in 35mm camera format.

The 150mm lens for the Mamiya 7 is serviceable for portraits, but less than ideal due to its lack of close focus capability. Also, the viewfinder frame in which you must compose the image is somewhat small - but can be adapted to with little difficulty. Most pro labs require you to attach your negatives to a cropping mask for enlargements anyway, so there is really nothing lost by the lack of close focusing ability for portraits. It is just that your proof prints will show a little more background than you might like.

An ordinary +1 close-up lens is in focus at 39 inches, when the prime lens it is attached to is focused at infinity.

I exchanged my 6X6cm SLR for a Mamiya 6, which is essentially the same camera as the Mamiya 7 but with square images, and have had no regrets. The camera is lightweight, fast and easy to use, and can be hand-held at slow shutter speeds. I get excellent results shooting portraits with both the 50mm and the 150mm lenses, and have no complaints. I find the light meter usually gives the same reading as my Sekonic incident meter. What these cameras can do, they do extremely well. What they can't do are the things that are probably best done in either 35mm or large format anyway.

Check the bulletin board section at www.mamiya.com

From Medium Format Digest:
From: Ken Schwarz [email protected]
Subject: Response to New Mamiya 7
Date: 1999-01-13

I read the Mamiya Japan site announcement. The principal improvements are multiple exposure, ratcheted dark slide (nice!), improved (one touch) exposure compensation control, brighter finder lines, 3rd strap ring, enhanced grippability, repositioned cable release socket lower and to the right. There is no talk of the finder accomodating the new 50mm lens, so presumably you will need an external finder.

Van: [email protected] [email protected]
Aan: [email protected] [email protected]
Datum: zondag 9 mei 1999 2:09
Onderwerp: STROBOFRAME PRO-TM BRACKET {Scratches}

>Ron, Please post this, To all users or prospective users of the Stroboframe
>Pro-TM bracket for the Mamiya 7. Be aware that the anti-twist flange can
>produce nasty scratches on the rear portion of the base of the M7 body. To
>remedy, Take some plastic tape and place along the inside of the frange,Then
>trim. Lee

Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000
From: "Phil Partridge" [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Mamiya 6 Prices??

Natasha,

You can check out and use Ebay if you feel comfortable doing so. KEH are reputable for 2nd hand photographics, have a look at http://www.keh.com/shop/product.cfm?bid=MR&cid=02&sid=newused&crid=968457 They crop up at www.photo.net every so often too.

If the keh link doesn't work, try www.keh.com/ and navigate to the Mamiya 6/7 section. They have a couple of bodies for $US695 and $785 (6MF) right now. Lenses seem to be rather than the 75mm 'standard' lens. The 50mm is reportedly a real gem (I've seem some amazing images taken with it), and the 150mm is an APO class wonder. Both comfortably outrate the 75mm at www.photodo.com/. [Not to say it is not good, of course, all these RF lenses are fantastic, esp the wide angles.] Your choice.

I live in Australia, and here Mamiya rangefinders are somewhat cheaper 2nd hand than at KEH, however I have purchased from them in the past and had very good results - they under-rate the condition of their stock, imo.

The M7II is also very special, see this review at

http://www.photo.net/photo/medium-format/mamiya-7; the M6 review is at

http://www.photo.net/photo/mamiya-6.

The M7II is pretty outrageous in the US new; I chased up some dealers in Hong Kong who want about $1800 with shipping for a new M7II with 65mm lens (I could only afford one at the moment (!) and the 65mm is the best trade-off I feel). This may be your best avenue. For further details, see the Mamiya 6/7 threads on Medium Format Digest, http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a?topic_id=35, a very rich source of info on these cameras, and in particular, this thread:

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=0011xr&topic_id=35& topic=Medium%20Format%20Digest

Also see Mamiya US excellent but rather self-indulgent user forums at

http://mamiya.com/cgi-bin/WebX?13@^[email protected] (M6) and

http://mamiya.com/cgi-bin/WebX?13@^[email protected] (M7).

There. I know a bit about them because I am trying to decide between the compact and affordable M6 + 50/150 or a new M7II/65 for about the same money (for me here). Smaller body with two lenses, 6x6, plentiful projector choices, 2 more frames/roll, cheaper; versus: new, large neg (27% bigger), current body, somewhat better spec/build. Keep in mind that the 43mm wonder wide angle for the M7 is prohibitively expensive for most amateurs and needs a Rube Goldberg style accessory finder. The 6's 50mm, by comparison, looks like a great deal to me. Less DOF with 6x7 too.

Bodies are pretty similar in feel and operation.

No way to lose really, despite the obvious trade-offs. Lok for a later series M6 to get the improved meter. You can also retrofit the new improved M7II finder to older M7s (maybe M6s too, not sure).

Good luck, Philip

Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000
From: Frank Loeffel [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: My M7II 43mm, 80mm, 150mm lens test results

I recently tested a friend's M7II with the 43 L 4.5, 80 L 4 and 150 L 4.5 lenses. I now have my own M7II with a 50, 80 and 150 that I haven't tested yet. Here are my resolving power test results, measured with a USAF test pattern, expressed in lines/mm (in my opinion the same thing as line pairs/mm). Fuji Velvia 220. Gitzo 1228 Tripod and Gitzo 270 ball head. Cable release. Inspected the slides with a biological microscope at 40 x magnification.

Caveat 1: Because the 43 mm lens can not close focus the USAF test chart which is 887 mm wide, the values given for the edges are only at an image height of 23 mm for the 43 mm, whereas the image height is 33 mm for the 80 and 150. The image height in the very corners would be 44 mm which is impractical to measure with this method. Magnifications: 43 mm: 1/20.63, 80 mm: 1/14.54, 150 mm: 1/14.4

Caveat 2: Velvia is not the sharpest film available, but this is what I use. With low speed black and white film you would get higher resolving power and the diffraction limit would be significant at larger apertures (smaller f-stop number).

Caveat 3: At the large apertures, the film flatness and focus errors may have degraded performance.

Based on the data below, I summarize:

1) These are outstanding lenses.

2) For Velvia, the 43 mm performs best at f/11, the 80 performs best at f/16 and the 150mm performs best at f/11.

I measured 9 values for each aperture and thus the data is presented as follows:

aperture,
resolution at center,
resolution at edge 1 tangential, resolution at edge edge 1 radial,
resolution at edge 2 tangential, resolution at edge edge 2 radial,
resolution at edge 3 tangential, resolution at edge edge 3 radial,
resolution at edge 4 tangential, resolution at edge edge 4 radial.

[Ed. note: update - corner for edge edge above...]

(Use a constant width font)

43 mm lens:
5.6  82  65 73  65 73  58 65  58 73
8    82  58 82  58 73  65 73  65 73
11   73  73 73  58 65  65 73  65 73
16   65  58 65  52 65  52 65  58 65
22   65  52 58  52 58  52 58  52 46

80 mm lens:
4    52  37 46  29 33  29 37  37 41
5.6  52  29 41  37 37  33 37  33 41
8    73  33 46  37 33  37 37  33 41
11   73  46 52  41 52  41 46  41 52
16   65  52 65  46 58  46 52  52 52
22   52  46 52  46 52  41 46  41 46

150 mm lens:
4.5  82  58 73  51 58  58 58  58 73
5.6  82  58 65  46 51  58 65  65 65
8    73  58 65  65 65  65 65  65 73
11   82  58 65  58 65  65 73  65 73
16   57  57 57  57 57  57 57  51 51
22   51  46 51  46 51  46 51  46 46
32   41  36 41  32 36  32 36  36 41

Date: 29 Oct 2000
From: [email protected] (Kacheong Poon)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Mamiya 7 II for first MF?

you write:

>I've been researching MF for about a month, reading here and elsewhere
>on the 'net and seeking articles in my backissues of PopPhotography.
>From everything I've read, the Mamiya 7 II might be my best choice for
>getting into the format, because of it's light weight, lack of mirror
>slap, decent or better lenses, and reasonable overall price.  I think I

Don't know if you live in the US or not. If you do, the price is not really reasonable... You may want to think about mail ordering it from UK or other places. If you don't live in the US, you are fine.

>would use it more because of its portability and low vibration (IOW,
>can shoot hand-held as well as with tripod).  At the same time, the
>negative size is among the largest in MF.
>
>My kids are still young, so I'm a few years from being able to take
>vacations specifically for photo opportunities again.  Most of my
>current shooting is concentrated on my kids (posed and candid), But I
>still take something with me when I travel on business or pleasure.
>
>I'd appreciate comments, positive or negative, regarding the 7 II.  I
>expect to wait until after the first of the year to buy, so I have time
>to explore alternative suggestions as well.  Thanks in advance!

I have a 7 II as my first MF. I love it! I'd say the lenses are among the best. I have the 65mm and 150mm lenses. And portability is excellent. As you mentioned, you can also take amazing hand-held pictures. In fact, I've tried hand holding it (with 65mm lens) at 1/4s and enlarge the picture to 8x10. Most people cannot even tell I did not use a tripod (-: Well, I should say that not every 1/4s pictures is like that and one really need to practice for this kind of slow speed... But you can be sure what the results are like at 1/60s or higher... No tripod is needed in a sunny day to get maximum depth of field with 100 speed film! Think about that (-:

If your intention is to take kids picture, playing, having fun..., you may want to consider another MF camera. The problem is that all lenses of 7 II cannot focus close enough for this kind of pictures. Well, I guess it also depends on the composition you want to use. But the minimum focusing distance is one major thing you need to consider. At best, the 150mm can do a half-body portrait of a teenager. And focusing the 150mm needs concentration because of the range finder and shallow depth of field. You really want to use at least f/8 or smaller aperture to make sure your kids are in focus if you are running around with them and cannot concentrate too much in focusing. With some practice, focusing the 150mm should not be a problem.

Focusing the 80mm should be easier (I have not tried that but I have no problem with 65mm right from the beginning). And the depth of field is also better. But using it means that you can only do environmental portrait of your kids.

Note also that because of parallax issues, it means that what you see in the view finder is probably not the same (a little bit off) as on the film for taking this kind of pictures, even 7 II's view finder has mechanism to compensate for that. Well, you can get use to that. But this needs practice.

At last, if you have never tried a range finder before, you'd better rent a 7 II to try it first. You may fall in love with it or you may hate it. But I can guarantee you that your fellow 35mm photographers will ask why your pictures (taken with a 7 II) have much more/better/finer "..." (Fill in their own favorite photographic technical words (-:)

K. Poon.
[email protected]

rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Date: Tue Oct 31 CST 2000
From: Bruno Erni [email protected]
[1] Accuracy of Mamiya 7/II viewfinder

I've noticed that the pictures taken with my Mamiya 7/II show quite a bit of a larger area than what I had seen through the frame in the viewfinder (I'm especially referring to the 80mm and the 150mm lenses). So I need to imagine the white frame in the viewfinder to be larger than it actually is. My question is how much? Where can I find an indication of this viewfinder error? I know that the manual says: "83% of the field of view is visible at infinity, and 100% is visible at the minimum focusing distance".

Where can I find a graphical indication of what this corresponds to?`

Thanks, Bruno

From Medium Format Mailing List:
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000
From: Jeremy Smith [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [medium-format] Mamiya 7II Questions

Hi Jeff, I use the Mamiya 7, essentially the same as the 7II.

To answer your questions:

I have been pretty satisfied about using the 80mm. One of the things I was specifically excited about before I bought my camera was using it to get nice portraits. I was a little dissappointed to find out that that was one of the very few downsides to this system.

Anyway I still bought it and it turns out to not be as bad as i thought it might. You can still do very nice portraits, even head and shoulders, you just can get those real tight headshots. But infact you could even do that if you buy a closeup adapter set, OR just buy a close up adapter, and then calculate the focusing range with 35mm camera at your side.

I havent bought any other lenses yet, been so satisfied with just the standard lens, so I havent used the shoe mounted framer. But my next choice will be the 43mm wide angle.

It is now definately my main camera. It really is no bigger or cumbersome than my canon EOS system, infact i just transfered it all to my 35mm camera bag, no difference to me. It looks feels and looks to others just like a biggish 35mm camera, you look like a pro.

I have used the 35mm film adapter and it works fine. It takes a few minutes to get it set up, but then you are ready to use 35mm film. I bought it for fear that I would still want to use 35mm film but frankly, I never do, i just always buy plenty of 120 film to take with me. It is real hard to go back after seeing your 120 film results. I have it just in case i run out and can only get 35mm film, hasnt happend yet, but I guess if you are traveling it would be good to have.

I like the camera a lot. I plan to buy two more lenses the 43mm and the 150mm, to me that would be a really complete system.

Next up, large format.

Jeremy

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, October 30, 2000
To: [email protected]
Subject: [medium-format] Mamiya 7II Questions

Does anyone on this list use a Mamiya 7II?

Can you focus close enough with the 80mm lens to get a head and shoulders portrait?

When you use the shoe mounted framer with the other lenses, how much trouble is it really to move your eye back and forth?

Is it your main camera or just a travel option for big negatives?

Can it be as unobtrusive as a 35mm in a crowd?

How well does the 35mm conversion kit work?

Do you like the camera?

Jeff

Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000
From: Jeff Schraeder [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [medium-format] Swapping MF systems

Kevin,

I just bought the Mamiya 7 II. I bought the 65 mm lens. It is an easy camera to carry around and to use. It is good for landscape but you really can't get a head and shoulders portrait. It is smaller and lighter than the Pentax 6x7. I've only taken a half dozen rolls of film through it but it is going to be my favorite camera. I am taking it to Paris this week and I will be shooting interiors and street scenes. I may be selling my Pentax 645 soon.

Jeff

Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000
From: Chris Ellinger [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Mamiya 7 II

TenKman [email protected] wrote:

> Any comments on the Mamiya 7 II camera.  It is supposed to be a
> lightweight 6x7 medium format camera that can do panorama 35mm.  I am
> looking to add to my 35 mm SLR to do some portraits and nature
> photography ( weight is a lesser issue).

The M7 is not an ideal portrait camera. None of its lenses will focus closely enough for tight headshots. Neither is it an ideal landscape camera. Since it is a rangefinder, graduated filters are awkward or impossible to use.

If size and weight are not an issue, a 6x7 SLR would be more appropriate than a rangefinder camera for portraits and nature photography.

Chris Ellinger
Ann Arbor, MI

Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000
From: Chris Ellinger [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Mamiya 7 II

TenKman [email protected] wrote:

> Any comments on the Mamiya 7 II camera.  It is supposed to be a
> lightweight 6x7 medium format camera that can do panorama 35mm.  I am
> looking to add to my 35 mm SLR to do some portraits and nature
> photography ( weight is a lesser issue).

The M7 is not an ideal portrait camera. None of its lenses will focus closely enough for tight headshots. Neither is it an ideal landscape camera. Since it is a rangefinder, graduated filters are awkward or impossible to use.

If size and weight are not an issue, a 6x7 SLR would be more appropriate than a rangefinder camera for portraits and nature photography.

Chris Ellinger
Ann Arbor, MI

Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000
From: "don ferrario" [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.misc,rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Leica vs Medium Format??

Why not get a Mamiya-7 or Mamiya-6, and have the image quality of the Pentax 67, with nearly the small size of the Leica? Especially with the Mamiya-6 and its collapsible lens mount.

A couple years ago, I sold a lot of my Nikon stuff, and bought a Leica M6 and a few lenses. I also had the Mamiya-6 at the time.

I figured I'd use the Mamiya when size/weight permitted, and the Leica when it didn't.

Although the Mamiya isn't as small as the Leica, its nearly as lightweight. I also find it quicker and easier to use, because the rangefinder is larger, and because it offers aperture-priority AE when I want it.

Basically, I *never* found a situation where the Leica was more appropriate than the Mamiya-6. I *did* find situations where an SLR was more appropriate, and got back into the Nikon system.

To answer your original question, the larger negative of the medium format will provide images that are clearly superior, no matter what contemporary brands you compare.

--
don ferrario
http://www.ferrario.com/don
1100 nikon links at http://www.nikonlinks.com

...

From: [email protected] (Andreas Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001
Subject: Re: Mamiya 7 II

"Jeffery S. Harrison" [email protected] wrote:

>What single lens would YOU get for this camera and why?

I own the Mamiya 7 I and the 80mm and 50mm lenses. Most Mamiya owners either go for the duo 43mm/65mm or 50mm/80mm.

Personally, I consider the 150mm next to useless due to the large minimum focusing distance. The Mamiya 7 system is missing a portrait lens. A work-around is using the Mamiya 6 close-up adapter on the Mamiya 7 80mm lens. Magnfication is close to 1:4, enough for an head-and-shoulder portrait. The advantage of using the Mamiya 6 adapter instead of the regular Mamiya 7 adapter is that focusing with the viewfinder still works (altough one needs a steady hand). The new 210mm is a joke, IMO.

Andi

http://home.datacomm.ch/andreas.steiner

Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001
From: "Mark L.." [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Mamiya 7 II

On a recent trip to Tokyo, I looked at this camera long and hard before deciding to get a 645 SLR and a Mamiya 6 (the newer non-mutliformat version, which I got used, for a price equivalent to ~$400 without lens; the unbelievaly cheap prices for Mamiya gear overseas - around 55% of US prices - means that used prices are similiary depressed). I'll use the 6 for street photography kind of stuff, which I actually don't do much of - I wouldn't have bought it even if hadn't been so cheap.

The most serious crimp in the M7's feature list is its lack of close focus, which I use a lot. That said, its 43 mm superwide is (I think) one of the widest available in 6x7 and would give you one of the few portable superwide 67 configurations currently available. And the rumor is that it's optically remarkable.

...

Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001
From: [email protected] (George Pappas)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Tip for Mamiya 7 lens caps.

I replaced all of my Mamiya 7 58mm lens caps with 58mm caps from Pentax. They come on and off very easily without fuss.

I was suprised that such a fine camera system (the Mamiya 7) had such clumsy lenscaps.

Regards,

George

[email protected] (Henkka Karapuu) wrote:

>Many have complained about the poor design of mamiya 7's lens caps:
>you can't use them at the same time with the hood.
>
>I noticed an easy solution accidently: tamron lens cap with diameter
>3mm too small works perfectly, at least with the 80mm lens (eg. 55mm
>cap when the normal filter diameter is 58mm).
>
>-Henri

Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001
From: Chris Ellinger [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Mamiya 7 - worth trying?

"mariusz" [email protected] wrote:

> hi guys
>
> is anybody here who use Mamiya 7? I consider purchasing this model for
> portrait/ travel/ landscape photography. What d'you think about it? Is
> Mamiya 7 a good choice?

Lens quality is superb.

Quiet, lightweight for 6x7.

The lenses don't focus close enough for a head shot portrait.

Rangefinder viewing makes split/graduated filters and polarizers difficult to use.

Manual metering is too coarse (+/- one-half stop) for transparency film.

Rent one for a weekend, before you buy.

Chris Ellinger
Ann Arbor, MI

Date: 03 Jul 2001
From: [email protected] (BHilton665)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Mamiya 7 - worth trying?

My wife shoots the 7 II with 4 lenses ... good points are the exceptional lens quality and relatively light weight.

There are many bad points (or at least 'quirks' :) so I suggest you try it via rental if possible to see if any of these are deal-killers for you. Here are what I consider some of the bad points ...

* 65 mm lens cuts off part of the viewfinder.

* 150 mm lens cuts off part of the viewfinder.

* 210 lens requires a separate finder and you cannot focus this lens via the rangefinder, so you have to just guess the distance or zone focus.

* close focus point is not very close.

* lenses are relatively slow

* entire system is ridiculously over-priced if purchased in the US due to the Mamiya USA exclusion of grey market gear (Monaghan's excellent MF site has info on how to order outside this box :)

* metering is "funny", appears to be a spot reading off the center section of the viewfinder so with wide angle lenses you're metering a very tiny area. Learn to use the AE lock.

* usual rangefinder issues with filters (have to adjust for exposure since metering is not TTL, and can't see pol effect without removing the filter).

* we have difficulty focussing with sunglasses on.

* some of the lens hoods are really hard to get on, at least for our system. You'd expect better build quality at these prices

All in all you'll get excellent images in a lightweight box but the quirks take some getting used to. If getting a MF rangefinder today I think I'd look long and hard at the 645 AF units myself.

Bill

Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001
From: "Jeffery S. Harrison" [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Mamiya 7 - worth trying?

....

> * 210 lens requires a separate finder and you cannot focus this lens via the
> rangefinder, so you have to just guess the distance or zone focus.

Mamiya says that the 210mm lens is intended specifically for aerial photography. They don't seem that willing to mention that in their advertising so it isn't well known. When used for things like portraits the 23' minimum focusing distance and the fact that it doesn't couple to the range finder are serious problems. When used in an airplane to take pictures of the ground none of those short comings are really a problem.

>* close focus point is not very close

True and people have complained that you can't focus close enough for a face only shot. This is true but it works quite nicely for head and shoulders and with the 6x7 negative size you can crop a head and shoulder shot very easily to get only the face. Overall I haven't found that lack of close focus to be any problem at all.

{snip}

> * usual rangefinder issues with filters (have to adjust for exposure  since
> metering is not TTL, and can't see pol effect without removing the  filter).

Mamiya has an attachment that lets you see the effect of and meter through the polarizer and then you can swing it in front of the lens without altering the orientation of the polarizer. I've never used it but understand that it works quite well. Really should set exposure manually when using it though.

{snip}

> All in all you'll get excellent images in a lightweight box but the  quirks take
> some getting used to.  If getting a MF rangefinder today I think I'd  look long
> and hard at the 645 AF units myself.
>
> Bill

I haven't looked at the 645 rangefinders in person (no access to them) but really like the 6x7 format so I probably wouldn't be tempted to get one anyway. The only real quirks of the Mamiya 7 II (and the 6MF) I've run into are more related to the fact that it is a rangefinder and not an SLR than anything else. When used for the type of photography that rangefinders are best suited for these really aren't an issue. The system gives you great quality images from a large negative and is very light. For general landscape photography, most portraiture and simply as a general purpose camera to carry around you'd be hard pressed to find something better. For wildlife photography, head shots and macro work you would be better off with some other camera (preferably an SLR). I usually carry around my 7 II or 6MF whenever I go out because I find them such a pleasure to use and in the short time that I've owned it the 7 II has become my favorite camera.

Jeffery S. Harrison

Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001
From: "Yorkovich" [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Mamiya 7 - worth trying?

I agree! Went to B+H and looked at the 7II. Almost had me convinced until he started comparing it to the 6 - and stayed on that track. After research & much hunting, I finally put together a mint 6 with all 3 lenses, etc. The square format is still unbeatable in medium format! You can also find a 6 setup for a LOT less than a 7II. My only problem is, I've gone digital & it just sits in a closet, now.

Will

...

Date: 26 Apr 2001
From: [email protected] (BHilton665)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Mamiya 7 II

>Have you used one ?

Yes, been using it off and on for a year now with 65, 80, 150 and 200 mm lenses.

>What you you like and dislike about it ?

Like -- light weight and exceptional image quality.

Dislike -- prices are extremely high due to Mamiya USA monopoly, rangefinder is hard to focus at times, 150 mm is cut off in view finder, 200 mm cannot be focussed except by guessing the distance since it does not couple to the rangefinder, meter is apparently a spot meter so with wider lenses metering is a bit challenging, changing film is very slow compared to our other cameras (35 mm and 6x4.5 cm with inserts), poor close focus distance on the lenses, parallax problems due to it being a rangefinder, harder to use filters compared to TTL systems, lens hoods hard to get on/off for two of the lenses, easy to leave the stinkin' lens cap on when you shoot (especially when you switch back and forth with 35 mm), probably a couple of other minor things I can't remember at the moment.

>Does it give very sharp pics ?

Excellent image quality. Photodo rates a couple of the lenses at 4.2 or so, I think the highest rating for any medium format lenses and about as high as the best 35 mm lenses. Coupled with the 6x7 cm size, this is a potent combination.

Despite my lengthy "dislike" list I still like the system a lot, it just takes some getting used to since it's a rangefinder. It's not as handy to use as my 645 system but when we need high image quality and can't pack much weight we take the 7 II.

Bill

Date: 26 Apr 2001
From: [email protected] (BHilton665)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Mamiya 7 II

>From: [email protected]  (BHilton665)
>
> ... been using it off and on for a year now with 65, 80, 150 and
>200 mm lenses.

Let me correct my own post by making that 200 a 210 :)

>Dislike -- 

Add three other dislikes, very slow lenses (f/8 for the 210 for example) and lack of a macro solution. Since I usually use it on a tripod the slow speed doesn't bother me much, but it leads to long exposures at times ... speaking of tripods, on some QR plates you have to remove or loosen the plate to change the film since the release stud hits the plate.

On the "Like" side, should have mentioned that it's extremely quiet and stable (first time I used it I kept wondering if it were even firing) since there's no mirror to flop up. And I think I mentioned the image quality, which covers for a multitude of 'dislikes' to me :)

Bill

Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001
From: Duncan Ross [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Mamiya 7 Gallery

I bought an M7 last year on a trip to the UK - you can see my first pics here:

http://duncanrossphoto.com/Catalog_of_Photographs/Ireland/ireland.html

Here are some people type pics from the local area:

http://duncanrossphoto.com/Stock_Photography/Fort_Niagara/fort_niagara.html

It replaced a 6x6 SLR for landscape work. I have the 150, 80, and 43mm lenses. It takes some getting used to the rangefinder, but it is very light and has great lenses. It's great for candids too.

Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 
To: [email protected]
From: John Hicks [email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Rollei] 80mm f2.8 and 75mm f3.5 Planars

you wrote:

>Off (but related) topic, why didn't Mamiya make faster standard lenses for
>the M6 & M7 rangefinders? 

  Word from Mamiya was that the decision was based on shutter size; any
faster lenses would require the next size shutter and the lens barrels
would be significantly bigger (like Rollei 6000-size).
  I too would've liked faster lenses to be available, at least a stop
faster, but when Mamiya produced the M6 they weren't real sure anyone would
buy it.

John Hicks

[email protected]




From: "Jeffery Harrison" [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Mamiya RB/RZ experiences
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 

> I've heard nothing but god things about the Mamiya 7 line but there is one big
> problem:  lack of close-up ability.  I use rangefinders in 35mm; I've usually



How up-close do you want to get? I have the Mamiya 7 II with the 65mm, 80mm
and 150mm lenses for it and absolutely love this camera -- I've officially
owned it for a little over a year now and it rapidly became my favorite GP
camera to carry around. It can handle most photographic situations, has a
really big negative and is actually smaller and lighter than my Nikon F5.
The closest any of my lenses allow me to focus the Mamiya 7 II is 1-meter so
if you're looking to do macro work this camera will not work. If you just
want to get close though you may find that the 1-meter distance will get
whatever you're interested in large enough in the frame that you could
enlarge and crop as required to show only that detail (you are working with
a pretty large negative). As is true with most (all?) rangefinder cameras
this camera is not best suited to macro or extreme telephoto work. The
camera as 6 lenses available; 43mm, 50mm, 65mm, 80mm, 150mm and 210mm. Of
these lenses the 210mm does not couple with the rangefinder so you have to
guess at the correct distance when focusing and it's minimum focusing
distance is 27-feet (Mamiya advertises this lens for airial photography
where those really aren't issues).


For general purpose photography though the Mamiya 7 II is very hard to beat.
It's small, light-weight, quiet, has an accurate light meter which works
well in its auto-exposure modes, allows multiple exposures, has a self timer
if you want to get into the shot, has a cable release socket, accepts 120,
220 and 35mm film (with the panoramic adaptor) and just for good measure all
of the lenses are very sharp. For most photographic (meaning
non-specialized) situations you'd be hard pressed to find a better 6x7
camera than the Mamiya 7 II.

Jeffery S. Harrison




Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Rollei] Rollei 6008 and Mamiya 7

Marc:

I have both camera systems. Sometimes I think I have more cameras than sense
of cents.

The Mamiya is a great system but cannot compare to the Rollei for most
applications. If you want to photograph most anything you cannot beat the
Rollei on a tripod. I have done several kitchen interiors and people are
simply amazed. As you say sharp, meter spot on, all true and more. But, it is
bulky and not really a point and shoot, although for the shoulder healthy, it
can be.

The Mamiya is more a outdoor, scenic landscape type camera. I have found the
meter on the 7II to be a tricky proposition. It is not TTL and easily fooled
into UNDER exposure. Most posts I have seen on this camera indicate people
shoot manual mode and not P. I use the Sekonic meter with this camera.

Bob Haight


Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: buying Mamiya offshore -- Hong Kong or UK?
From: Sak [email protected]
Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 


Bill,
I was studying that my self and found an informative
post from Mark Williams
in the "Portrait lens close focusing, Mamia 7 vs
other" thread in this news group.

He bought the 43mm for $1153 from Cameron Photo in HK.

I snooped photo.net forum and found others
recommending Cameron Photo too.
Cameron Photo phone # is 852-2369-1063

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=000GnZ

On the topic of Mamia 7, I have a question for you.
I'm in the market for a medium format camera, so
I rented a M7 this weekend (along with pentax 645N)
and got my first velvia slides back.  With all the
ranting & raving about the M7 lenses, I was expecting
nothing less that the best.  I was somewhat
disapointed with the results.  I currently shoot
Contax G2 & N1 and got use to the "zeiss"
characteristics. When I looked at the M7 slides, they
were sharp, but seemed  "flat".  The contrast was much
lower, and the 3D effect was not present.

Since you own one, I was wondering what your opinion
is on the M7 lenses.

I really wanted to like the M7, mainly for it's 6x7
format & small size, but
I'm not so sure any more. I've never heard anything
bad about the M7 lenses so I'm a little confused about
my interpretation.  I guess I will try renting the
Contax 645 next, it's  the only way to find out for
myself.

Masaki


[email protected] (Bill Hilton) wrote 
> I'd like to buy an expensive wide angle lens for my Mamiya rangefinder
> but the cost is ridiculous in the US ($2,600 at B&H) and it's closer to
> $1,400 at Robert White (UK).
>
> I lost the link to Professor Bob's discussion re: buying offshore so
> can someone post it again.
>
> Any thoughts on whether there's less hassle in buying from White or
> from Hong Kong?  Anyone have any bad experiences buying grey market
> from overseas?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Bill




From: "Jon N." [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: buying Mamiya offshore -- Hong Kong or UK?
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002


germano wrote in message

>Dear friend , you haven't wrong ideas . Mamiya 7 lenses have an
>incredible sharpness ,but sharpness is not the only one thing in
>photography .Others elements made a good photography . The multicoated
>layer of   M7 isn't so good as Zeiss Planar's Blad ;color's
>restitution is bad.In M7, image's plasticity (3d)isn't sufficient
>(look image of Planar's Zeiss for Blad or Heliar Voigtlander for Bessa
>2;not extremly sharp but pleasantness natural).Photography is not a
>number but a complex question. Salutation , Germano

Baloney. The multicoating on the M7 may give a subtly different color cast,
but whether this is good or bad is a matter of preference. In the few shots
taken side by, I find I can see the slightested difference from my Blad's
Planar - if I go looking for the difference. If I can't compare slides side
by side, I can't tell the difference at all, and I seriously doubt you
could. The preceding poster most likely took his M7 shots under different
lighting conditions from those for the comparator slides. The subtlest
differences in lighting from one day to the next will completely swamp any
differences resulting from any of the different multicoating formulas used
among modern MF lenses.

For what it's worth, many gear hounds fault the M7 lenses for (relative)
sharpness, but praise them for contrast snap and coloring.



From: "Mark Williams" [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Portrait lens close focusing, Mamiya 7 vs others
Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002


Hi Steve,

Allow me to more specifically address the Mamiya 7, since I have one, and
since the other posters are speaking more generally.

The main issue you seem to have isn't an equipment issue.  I suppose like
most of us from the 35mm world, you're used to tight framing--to cropping in
the camera.  With the M7, this isn't possible for portraits.  The lenses
don't focus close enough for tight head shots--all lenses focus to about 3
feet, except the 150, which focuses to 6 feet, and the 210, which no one
buys, and which focuses (as I recall) to about 12 feet.  However, since you
have all the real estate of a 6x7 chrome, you don't HAVE to make such tight
in-camera croppings to get outstanding enlargements.  A 6x7 is, after all,
something like five times larger than 35mm.  So when you asked if you were
missing something, I suppose in a sense you were--the tight in-camera crops
we all do with 35mm to get maximum use of the small image size is less
important with 6x7.


There is a close focus kit you can get for the 80mm standard lens that
allows focus as close as 11 inches.  But it ONLY focuses at 11 inches.  It
works well (I own one) for macro type images; but it is certainly less
versatile than a macro lens on an SLR.  If you mainly do macro, you would do
better to get a different camera.

The Mamiya 7, aside from being medium format, is also a rangefinder.  For
both reasons there are quite a few differences from what you're used to, and
it can be invalid to reason through the lens, as it were, of a 35mm SLR when
talking about a medium format rangefinder.

The best thing about the M7 is the portability.  You'll be able to have the
thing along at times when no other medium format camera would be portable
enough.  For me, this is completely liberating.  The other day I did a 40
mile ride with a bunch of bicycle racing friends.  We hammer pretty hard
(28mph average speeds), and usually stop at the end of Key Biscayne for a
mid ride break.  There's a lighthouse there that I've always wanted to
photograph, but never seem to have the time.  So before the ride, I strapped
on a LowePro Photorunner with M7 and a couple of lenses, threw a Gitzo CF
1128 over my shoulder, and did the ride.  My riding wasn't in any way
negatively affected, and I hammered as hard as normal in a peleton of 8
aggressive riders.  There is NO other 6x7 camera in the world for which this
would have been possible.

The next best thing about the M7 is the lenses.  Across the board, they test
out as  if not the finest lenses ever made, then certainly the equal of the
best from Schneider, Zeiss etc.  I used a Mamiya RZ67 for years, and the M7
lenses are even better than Mamiya's Z series lenses, which are also
outstanding.

The third best thing about the M7 is how easy a rangefinder design is to
use--for the sort of shots for which it is designed--candids, street,
landscape.  NOT African Safaris or macro.  One of the things rangefinder
users often find out is that they don't need all the added versatility of an
SLR for the majority of their photography.  And that it's quite liberating
to work with a very simple, but very high quality camera.

I'm giving a slightly long-winded answer to your question because I think
you may want to shift your paradigm in looking at something like an M7.  It
does NOT do things that even the most modest 35mm SLR can do routinely.  You
need to know whether those are things you need.  Close cropping is,
ultimately, NOT the issue you suspect it is, what with your smaller format
background.

Last point.  If you do decide to buy a Mamiya 7 II, you can save a fortune
by buying it from Cameron Photo in Hong Kong instead of from B&H.  Prices in
Hong Kong for Mamiya are about 55 percent less than in NYC.  For some
reason, Gitzo is also considerably cheaper.

This is what I paid for my Mamiya 7 stuff, which I bought new a few months
ago from Cameron:


Mamiya 7 II body                US$       923.00
50mm lens                                      1,089.00
80mm lens                                         551.00
150mm lens                                       807.00
65mm lens                                         743.00
43mm lens                                      1,153.00
Close up kit                                       237.00
Mamiya Polarizer                               153.00
Gitzo G1128                                      307.00

B&H prices for the same items would be about $12,000.  The best guy to deal
with at Cameron is K.M. Chin.  His phone # is 852-2369-1063.  His fax is
852-2739-8575.  Shipping the the States will be less than US$ 100 for an
entire Mamiya 7 system.  There is no American import duty on MF camera
bodies; there is a 2.3 percent duty on lenses--but the lens ON the camera is
considered part of the camera so incurs no duty.  I'm paying about $80 in
duty on the above items.

Best of luck,

Mark

...
> I've been thinking about replacing my Yashica D with
> something better and am considering, among others,
> the Mamiya 7.  I read through the archives, and have
> seen a number of the reviews and comments.  Thank
> you all who wrote these as they are of value even though
> I wasn't in on the original discussion.
>
> One of the major criticisms of the Mamiya 7 is that
> its lenses don't focus close enough.  The 150mm,
> in particular, only focuses to 6 feet according to the
> sales literature, which isn't close enough for a head
> shot.
>
> First question.  Do those of you who shoot a lot
> of medium formats frame head shots in the camera?
> Or is this a 35mm habit that I will have to grow out
> of?  I like tight head shots, but is it better for the
> framing to happen in the darkroom than in the camera?
...


From: [email protected] (Steve Hamley)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Gonna buy something, looking for comments
Date: 30 Apr 2002 


Tad,

I have a Mamiya 7II with a 43mm, 80mm, and 150mm lenses, and it is a
mixed bag, although I'm very happy with it. Here are some things you
should know or consider.

It is not a good portrait camera by conventional standards. The
longest lens excluding the impractical 250mm lens ia a 150mm f/4.5,
which is equivalent to a 70mm on a 35mm camera. The closest focus is 6
feet. So you're not going to fill the frame with someone's head or do
long telephoto shots. Of course, you can throw away 85% of a 6X7 neg
and still have a 35mm camera-sized shot. The closest focus of any
other lenses is 3 feet (except for the 250, which is something like 16
feet!).

The 43mm lens requires an auxillary viewfinder, and the 150mm has an
optional auxillary viewfinder to help with more precise framing. Using
auxillary viewfinders is a pain over not using them. You could use a
less wide lens without an auxillary viewfinder.


Now the good part: The lenses are absolutely superb.  Sharp as a
razor, excellent contrast. After you use them you'll spit on Leicas (I
have one so I can say this ;^) There's nothing wrong with any of the
lenses whatever except the built-in lens shade of the 150mm always
wants to get loose. If you can get close to the composition you want
with these lenses, you will not be disappointed in lens quality. Ever.

The camera is light and a joy to use. The rangefinder is bright and
parallax corrected. It fits in the hand well, and when on a tripod,
most of the weight sits directly over the tripod, so you can get by
with a lot less tripod than other MF cameras. If you use an Arca-style
tripod head, get the Really Right Stuff plate for it. It's one of
their better efforts, a work of art in itself. The meter seems
accurate, although it is NOT a TTL meter. A TTL meter would be the
tops on my wish list for convenience with filters. There's almost no
shutter shake because of the leaf shutter, so like the Leica hand-held
is O.K. Film handling is excellent, unlike the Leica.

Some people say that the M7 rangefinder has problems focusing at
infinity, which would make accurate closest focus suspect with the
150mm lens at the maximum f/4.5. I suspected mine was off when a
mountain at 3 miles or so wouldn't quite show perfect alignment in the
rangefinder.  However, I tried focusing on the moon and it was
perfect, and tests at close focus at f/4.5 with the 150mm confirmed
it. Infinity seems a lot further away for rangefinders than SLRs if
that makes any sense.

Get it from Robert White if you buy new, it's as cheap as good used
gear here -- you'll save about 40%, which is a chunk of change for
this camera. I've ordered stuff twice from Robert White, shipping will
be about $50, but you'll get it faster than from the U.S. I've never
figured that out.


e-mail if you have questions.

Thanks!

Steve


[email protected] (Tad Marko) wrote 
> Howdy All,
>
> I've wanted to buy a camera for a while but I have some conflicting
> thoughts. I owned an RB67 for a while, but found it just too big and
> clunky for what I wanted to do, which is a mixture of the occasional
> portrait of a friend, landscapes, a teeny bit of architecture, and
> some sorta close nature photography (not macro work). Every now and
> again someone will talk me into shooting a wedding or some such for
> them.
>
> I am currently looking at three substantially different cameras and
> was hoping that maybe some people could give me their thoughts on the
> following cameras:
>
> Mamiya 7
> Mamiya 645TTL
> Bronica GS-1
>
> Yeah, they are a lot different. I keep thinking I'd like to stick with
> the 6x7, but the handiness of the 645 is nice. For a lot of what I do,
> the rangefinder Mamiya 7 would be just fine, but I've never done a lot
> of work with anything except an SLR. The waist-level finder of the
> RB67 was a major pain.
>
> Anyway, any comments or thoughts would be greatly appreciated.> Thanks,
> Tad



[Ed. note: the earlier Koni Omega/Rapid Omega had Mamiya lenses as well, a budget M7?]
From Rollei Mailing list:
Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 
From: Bob Shell [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Rollei] OT: Large Format

Peter (Peter) at [email protected] wrote:
> The son of the RO (SOR?) is the Mamiya 7. Another camera with 1st rate lenses,
> but several times the price of the mechanical RO.

Not really.  They're completely unrelated designs.  In fact the Mamiya 7
(and 6) rangefinder isn't as good because the Mamiya Company was too
stubborn to license the Omega rangefinder design from Henry Froehlich, who
holds the patents.

Bob



From: Duncan Ross [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Mamiya 7II?
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002


WOW that's kind of a loaded question!   I'll give you my perspective....

I like the 80 and agree that the 43 is a bit too wide for most distance scenic
panoramics.

Here is a shot with the 80:
http://duncanRossPhoto.com/Catalog_of_Photographs/Ireland/200293/200293.html

The same shot with a 43:
http://duncanRossPhoto.com/Catalog_of_Photographs/Ireland/200292/200292.html

And another  with the 43:
http://duncanRossPhoto.com/Catalog_of_Photographs/Ireland/200291/200291.html

I like the 2:1 crop ratio (though they could be cropped 2.5:1) and generally
print these 20x40 or 12x24 (inches).  The 80 keeps things closer and more
intimate in distant landscape scenes, and I find the 43 works best in scenes
where there are close foreground elements.  The 65 would probably be a good
general wide angle as well and it is on my list of lenses to try out ...
someday.

Hope that helps,

Duncan
Duncan "AT" DuncanRossPhoto.com

Kinon O'Cann wrote:

> What's the best lens for panoramas on the 7 II?
...


From: [email protected] (Bill Hilton)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Date: 12 Jun 2002 
Subject: Re: 35mm Panoramic for Mamiya 7 II


>From: [email protected]  (Gerard Rhinn)

>Is it worth to buy the 35mm Panoramic set for Mamiya 7 II ?

When I got my 7 II they were offering the pano adapter for an extra $25 so I
got it.  Not sure if I'd pay $200 for it though.

>Is it easy to use ?

It's not "easy" but not too bad.  You have to insert the 35mm frame and load
the film, but when it's time to rewind the film you have to put a hand crank on
it and rewind it manually, meaning you have to take it off the tripod and
remove any larger tripod plates.  This takes a while and will drive you nuts if
the light is changing fast (grin).

You can just shoot 220 or 120 and crop the center portion of the film out to
get the same effect, I feel, and this gives you a slightly longer frame too
(the pano shots are 65 mm wide and I think the MF film image is 69 mm wide),
with more options for how tall to make the vertical.  The pano framing window
shows in the viewfinder with the 120/220 film too so you can frame it the same
way regardless of film format.

Unless you want to shoot film types that aren't available in 120/220 (like
Kodachrome or some consumer films) I can't see much use in getting one myself.

Bill



From rangefinder mailing list:
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 
From: "Wilson, Paul" [email protected]
Subject: RE: [RF List] mamiya 6 7 7ii rangefinders

I own a 7II with 43 and 80mm lenses (and soon the 150 also).  I used to own
a 6mf with 50 and 150mm lenses.  Basically, there isn't much to be said
about them that hasn't been written on the internet somewhere.  They're
great cameras with uniformly excellent lenses.  However, they aren't
versatile.  They're good for travel, street and landscape photography and
that's about it.  If anything, they're probably quieter than a Leica.

Personally, I've never had a problem with either of the bodies and any of
the lenses.  I really liked both but sold the 6mf because I wanted the 43mm
lens and prefer a rectangular neg/slide.

Paul Wilson


Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 
From: Gordon Moat [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Is the Mamiya 7II $500 better than the 7?

Having looked at both of these yesterday, I thought roughly the same
thing. The viewfinder in the 7 II is slightly brighter. There is also a
multi-exposure button on the newer 7 II. Other than that, you get a
warranty with a new camera. Personally, I think they should make a 7 III
with aperture information in the viewfinder, and a longer rangefinder
base to handle telephoto lenses better.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
Alliance Graphique Studio
http://www.allgstudio.com


From: Duncan Ross [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Is the Mamiya 7II $500 better than the 7?
Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002


Here is a comparison based on my 7 and 7II.

The 7II has the following improvements over the 7:
1) A relocated cable release socket (The 7's is by the button release, the
7II is on the lower side of the left hand grip.).
2) An improved darkslide curtain winder.  The 7II has a flip down winder,
the 7 has a recessed knob.  I have to remove the 7 from the tripod to
engage the curtain and change a lens.  I use the RRSZ tripod plate and it
comes pretty close to this knob.  (You may not find this a pain if you use
the Mamiya tripod adapter or something else).
3) A different type of button arrangement on the exposure comp.  The 7 is
a 2 button control (one to release the lock) where the 7II is a single
button for lock release and adjustment (push then turn)
4) A brighter viewfinder (though I dont really see much of a difference)
5) The 7II has multiple exposure capability.
6) The 7II has a chrome plated battery cover, the 7s is black.
7) The 7II has the word MAMIYA embossed in raised letters on the left hand
grip.  The rubberized material for the grip is the same, though.
8) The 7II has an extra strap mount so the camera can be hung
horizontally.  The strap lugs are chrome on the 7II, rather than black.

  All in all, they are very equivalent depending on what drives you nuts
and your use.   I dont like removing the 7 from the tripod to change
lenses).  The 7's viewfinder can be upgraded or under $100, but it's
really not all that different.  Since many people do multiple exposure in
photoshop these days, I can't understand paying much for this feature.


chuy wrote:

> I see that a new Mamiya 7 sells for about $750 and a new 7II sells for
> $1250. Is the 7II worth the extra $500? If so, why?

--
Duncan Ross


From rangefinder mailing list:
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 
From: Eric Gran [email protected]
Subject: RE: Medium format rangefinder

Hi Arthur,

I have been using a Mamiya 7II for about 2 years and love it.  It was
actually the first time I had used any rangefinder outside a p&s.  It is
extreemly comfortable to use and very reliable--a very solid camera. The
lens quality is excellent.  It easily adapts to either 120 or 220 film.
The meter is very acurate and the rangefinder bright.  Highly
recommended.


I think some people find it a bit limited for wedding work, however.  I
don't shoot weddings myself but a couple friends who do say they prefer
a medium format SLR for the replacable film backs, close focusing and
through the lens view. I suppose it is a matter of shooting style and
convenience.

I have a couple b&w projects shot with the Mamiya on the web at
http://www.jeebaproductions.com/granphoto/

They are "Casa Segura" and "NYC Iron Workers".  "Casa Segura" was shot
on an exterior stairwell landing with a black cloth taped to the wall.
The NYC project was shot on construction sites near the WTC site last
October, and the Mamiya proved to be rugged, reliable and very portable.

 The image quality does not really come across on the web, but I am
consistantly and pleasantly surprised by the results.  The small amount
of work I have done in color positive film is also outstanding with this
camera.
est wishes,
Eric

Arthur Schlaman wrote:
>  I have been thinking about getting a medium format rangefinder camera.
> I did have a Fuji 645 with a 60mm lens. It was a nice camera but
> difficult to focus. I know of only three other cameras the Bronica, the
> Mamiya 6 and Mamiya 7. I am wondering if anyone has had experience with
> these cameras and could give recommendations. I am mainly interested in
> using it for weddings and maybe some landscape work.


From: Martin Jangowski [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: 50mm F:4.5 Lens for the Mamiya 7
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002


TheYankeeSnapper [email protected] wrote:
> I'm thinking of buying the 50mm F4.5 lens to use with my M7-2. Would those who
> already own this lens please comment on how well Mamiya was in reducing
> distortion especially if the picture includes people 8 to 10 feet in front of
> the camera.

> Those with experience with both the 43 & 50 lenses how do you rate them
> individually and between each other.


Sorry, I only own the 43 and 65 M7 lens and can't comment on the 50mm. Both
the 43 and the 65 are outstanding.

However, it isn't possible to reduce distortion at the edges when using a
wide angle lens, since this is inherent in the construction. Every wideangle
lens is giving you oval heads at the edges, this is one reason why portrait
photographers usually like longer lenses...

The Mamiya wideangles for the Mamiya 7 (and the 50mm for the Mamiya 6) are
classic Biogon types, nearly symmetrical (since they don't need to make
room for a mirror). The Biogon is the finest wideangle construction you
can buy, the symmetrical construction cancels several abberations that
are big problems with unsymmetric constructions like retrofocus wideangles.
All Mamiya 7 wideangles have only minimal distortions, they are excellent
for architecure.

Martin


From: "John Sparks" [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: 50mm F:4.5 Lens for the Mamiya 7
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002

Symmetrical wide angles make circles near the edges of the frame more oval
than retrofocus wide angles of the same focal length.  Most wide angles for
rangefinders show this "distortion" more than SLR wide angles because of
this (this is not really distortion as the term is used in optics) .
Symmetrical lenses also have more light fall off toward the edges of the
frame. Symmetrical lenses do tend to have less distortion (barrel or
pincushion) than retrofocus lenses.  So straight lines near the edge of the
frame are straight.  This is a different optical effect than the rendering
of circles as ovals. Symmetrical lenses are likely to be sharper and
contrastier as fewer elements are needed to correct abberations as many
abberations cancel out with symmetric design (though only when focused at
1:1).  This is not as true as it used to be because computer design, modern
centering techniques and multicoating greatly reduce the penalties for more
elements.  Few lenses these days are fully symmetrical.  Even Leica is
designing their newer M-series wide angles to be retrofocus designs (though
less retrofocus than most SLR wideangles) these days.

John Sparks


From: Martin Jangowski [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Misbehaving Mamiya 7II
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002


f64 tumbleweed [email protected] wrote:
> Anyone have experience with a Mamiya 7II problem like this?

> The "LT" at the left end of the string of indicators in the viewfinder
> flashes when the shutter release is partially pressed.  It does this
> consistently.  It is only supposed to do this when it thinks there
> is an underexposure situation.  In manual mode, the recommended
> shutter speed is not illuminated as it is supposed to be.  I use
> an ambient light meter and manual mode almost exclusively
> and there seems to be no problem with the actual exposures.
> I haven't shot on AE since this problem began.

> I've reviewed the manual several times and this appears to be a true
> malfunction rather than cockpit error.

I had the same problem, but only with one specific lens. This lens
behaved identically (wrong) with two bodys, the other lenses
worked in both bodys. Mamiya repaired the lens, a internal
connection between f-stop ring and the contacts was broken.
Cost was 165 Euro.

Martin


From rangefinder mailing list:
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 
From: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [RF List] Unsolicited Testimonial


I had an M7, the meter was awful, as you say a blessing that it is not very
visible.  The lens (80) was really sharp---120 line pairs on Tech Pan in TD-3,
but the bokeh left a lot to be desired, a rather harsh-looking image, almost a
glazed look, and the markerd DOF was WAY optimistic!  Hard to believe there are
sharper lenses than that symmetrical 80mm!!

> John,
> Re: Mamiya meter readings.
> Mamiya's are notorious for their inaccurate meters so it is a blessing that
> you can't see them very well.  Often the meter are at least 1 f-stop wrong
> on light.
> Joseph Cowart
...


From: Martin Jangowski [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Mamiya 7 vs. 7II, difference?
Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002

Joshua L. Wein [email protected] wrote:
> I am having a blast with my vintage 6x9 rangefinder but I find it is just a
> tad unreliable when it comes to shutter speed. In looking into a replacement
> with a nice big piece of film the Mamiya 7 series comes to mind with the
> added bonus of having interchangeable lenses. I am considering getting the
> Mamiya 7II with the 80mm lens which would be about $1950 if I get it mail
> order from the UK. I have been looking into going the used route and I seem
> to find a lot of Mamiya 7's. What is the difference between the 7 and the
> 7II? is the II part worth it? (Also used 7II's seem to always be more
> expensive than new from England.). Thanks for any advice.

There is no big difference. Of course, the marketing types tell you
different, but for a practical photographer there is none. About
the only thing missing from the 7 is a multiple exposure feature
(fine if you have _again_ forgotten to remove the lens cap...),
but that's about all in favour for the 7II. Search for a
thread a few days earlier in this newsgroup, someone made a list.

Martin (who bought lots of film for the price difference between a used 7
and a new 7II)   


From: Duncan Ross [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Mamiya 7 vs. 7II, difference?
Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002

Hi,

Here are the differences that I have found between the 7 and 7II -

The 7II has the following improvements over the 7:

1) A relocated cable release socket (The 7's is by the button release, the 7II
is on the lower side of the left hand grip.).

2) An improved darkslide curtain winder.  The 7II has a flip down winder, the 7
has a recessed knob.  I have to remove the 7 from the tripod to engage the
curtain and change a lens.  I use the RRS tripod plate and it comes pretty close
to this knob.  (You may not find this a pain if you use the Mamiya tripod
adapter or something else).

3) A different type of button arrangement on the exposure comp.  The 7 is a 2
button control (one to release the lock) where the 7II is a single button for
lock release and adjustment (push then turn).  Exposure comp only works on when
using the built in meter on the 7 or 7II.

4) A brighter viewfinder (though I don't really see much of a difference). 

5) The 7II has multiple exposure capability.

6) The 7II has a chrome plated battery cover, the 7's is black.

7) The 7II has the word MAMIYA embossed in raised letters on the left hand
grip.  The rubberized material for the grip is the same, though.

8) The 7II has an extra strap mount so the camera can be hung horizontally.
The strap lugs are chrome on the 7II, rather than black.

  All in all, they are very equivalent depending on what drives you nuts and
your use.   I don?t like removing the 7 from the tripod to change lenses).  The
7's viewfinder can be upgraded or under $100, but it's really not all that
different.  Since many people do multiple exposure in photoshop these days, I
can't understand paying much for this feature

It's unclear to me whether the viewfinder is supposed to be brighter, or if it's
the viewfinder framing lines.  Mamiya's Documentation on this is not really
clear on this.     In any event, the camera body is every bit as good if you
don't need the 7II features.

"Joshua L. Wein" wrote:

> I am having a blast with my vintage 6x9 rangefinder but I find it is just a
> tad unreliable when it comes to shutter speed. In looking into a replacement
> with a nice big piece of film the Mamiya 7 series comes to mind with the
> added bonus of having interchangeable lenses. I am considering getting the
> Mamiya 7II with the 80mm lens which would be about $1950 if I get it mail
> order from the UK. I have been looking into going the used route and I seem
> to find a lot of Mamiya 7's. What is the difference between the 7 and the
> 7II? is the II part worth it? (Also used 7II's seem to always be more
> expensive than new from England.). Thanks for any advice.
>
> -Josh 



From: [email protected] (Bill Hilton)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Date: 14 Dec 2002 
Subject: Re: Medium format rangefinders   

>From: "Jason" [email protected]

>I am thinking of buying a medium format rangefinder (I want to move up from
>35mm but don't think I would be willing to lug around a MF SLR system). I
>looked at the Mamiya 7II and the Bronica 645RF today. I really liked the
>feel of the Bronica - nice grip, just the right size to be comfortable....
>but liked the bigger negative/slide of the Mamiya 7II. I was wondering if
>people who have used these cameras can share their impressions.

I have the Mamiya 7 II with 5 lenses.  There are two things I like about it,
the large trannie (I also shoot 645 and 35 mm, and of course prefer 6x7 over
them) and the light weight.  I can go to Alaska with my 500 f/4, a 100-400 and
a 100 macro for 35 mm and still get the Mamiya 7 and 4 lenses in one LowePro
pack (with side pouches) which I can hike with or ride a mountain bike with (in
Denali).  So I can shoot big game animals with the 35 mm and landscapes with
the 6x7, the best of both worlds.  My 645 SLR is heavier and bulkier and I
cannot do it with that system (main reason I got the Mamiya).

However, there are numerous things that drive me nuts about the Mamiya.  Maybe
someday I'll categorize all of them into one post like "17 things I HATE about
the Mamiya 7 II" (grin).  To name a few, the lens hood on the 150 mm is a total
piece of crap, milled so loose it won't stay on the lens, while several of the
other hoods for smaller lenses are so tight it's a pain to get them on.  Nikon
or Canon can provide a well-fitted lens hood for every lens they make, even the
$80 ones, but Mamiya can't mill the plastic correctly for a $1,500 lens?  What
a joke.

The 210 f/8 lens has no method for coupling to any finder so you can only focus
it by guessing (or measuring) the distance and setting this on the scale.  The
required "finder" is actually just a loose framing aid, with no coupling at
all.

The 150 is very hard for me to focus, unless there are distinct vertical lines
in the center focus area.  I see that Michael Reichmann of Luminous Landscape
fame had the same problem, to the point that he sold his Mam 7 system and 
bought a Pentax 6x7 instead, so it's not just me.

A couple of the smaller lenses partially obscure the viewfinder, so you can't
see a significant chunk of the bottom-right corner of the frame.  Especially if
you get the stupid lens shade on :)

Changing film is very slow, compared to my other camera systems.  Changing
lenses is very slow, compared to my other systems.

Neither the 150 nor the 210 focus close enough to be useful for many of the
types of shots I do.  I think the 210 has a close-focus range of about 23 feet,
for example.

The longest shutter speed is 1 sec and for me, using asa 50 film in dim light
at small apertures (sometimes) that's not enough.  I think anything below EV 10
is out of range at f/22  (you can use Bulb, but what a pain ... or open the
aperture but sacrifice some depth of field).  

If you want to measure your exposure manually and set the lens/shutter speeds
you're very limited since everything is in full stop increments.  In other
words, there's f/5.6 and f/8 but no half-stop for f/6.3.  Ditto with the
shutter speeds, so you can be up to 1/2 stop off.  I like to use a hand-held
spot meter at times, and it's tough to get the correct settings.

Mamiya USA prices are a rip-off, with incredible mark-ups.  I'd buy the lenses
from England at great discount, but you probably want to get the body with a US
warranty.

I spent last week in Utah and Arizona hiking and photographing in rough canyon
country.  I would have liked to have shot just with the 6x7 but there were
several situations involving macro (or anything remotely resembling a close up)
and shots a bit further out there where I needed the 645 instead, which meant I
had to return the next day and shoot with the 645 and a 120 mm macro or the 300
f/4, lenses which aren't in the Mamiya 7 II's arsenal.  So when it works it 
works fine, but there are a lot of limitations with this system, I feel.

Bill


From: [email protected] (Bill Hilton)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Date: 14 Dec 2002 
Subject: Re: Medium format rangefinders  


>From: [email protected]  (Bill Hilton)

>I have the Mamiya 7 II with 5 lenses.  There are two things I like about it,
>the large trannie ... and the light weight.

Should have said THREE things I like about it, the third being the optical
quality of the lenses, which is superb.

As Martin said, the 43 mm is a truly exceptional lens (and since it comes with
its own viewfinder you can actually frame with it quite accurately, unlike some
of the other wide angles which cover part of the viewfinder with the lens
and/or hood).

>>From: "Jason" [email protected]
>>
>>I am thinking of buying a medium format rangefinder ...

What your decision should boil down to is "is the light weight and big trannie
worth the hassles and limitations of a rangefinder".  You should read all these
posts and compare to how YOU shoot and want to use the camera system and make
sure it fits your needs.  For me, shooting mostly landscape, it works great
with the *longer* lenses IF and only IF the subject matter is "out there" a
ways so I can use infinity focus (or at a minimum have plenty of depth of field
to work with).  It works less well with longer lenses if the subject is closer,
due to the lack of close-focus and the difficulty in focussing (and the total
lack of coupled focussing with the 210 mm).

The 43 mm is great for the near-far landscape shots, I feel.  Just depends on
how you'll use the system as to whether or not you'll be happy with it.

Here are two user reports you may find interesting.  One found even more to
bitch about than I did (grin) and he sold the system after a year, the other
reads like it was written by Mamiya marketing.

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/m7_hands-on.htm    
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/mamiya_7_ii.htm

Bill
    


From: Martin Jangowski [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Medium format rangefinders
Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002

Jason [email protected] wrote:
> I am thinking of buying a medium format rangefinder (I want to move up from
> 35mm but don't think I would be willing to lug around a MF SLR system). I
> looked at the Mamiya 7II and the Bronica 645RF today. I really liked the
> feel of the Bronica - nice grip, just the right size to be comfortable....
> but liked the bigger negative/slide of the Mamiya 7II. I was wondering if
> people who have used these cameras can share their impressions.

I looked long for a system that I could easily use for traveling and that
makes big, perfect negatives. After dabbeling with 6x9 rangefinders
I found the Mamiya 6/7 system. I own both (with all three lenses for the 6
and 43/65/80/150 for the 7) and found them both excellent for travelling,
having the best optics I've ever seen. There are people who buy the Mamiya 7
only to use the 43mm... the single best lens they make.

Yes, both systems have their limitations... forget about Macro, they 
are slow to use (don't forget to close the second shutter when changing
lenses), the range finder is at its limits for the 150mm lens, the
light meter of the 6 is nearly unuseable, but (and that's a real big BUT)
they have the best lenses money can buy (the 43mm for the 7 or the 50mm for
the 6 are a dream...) and the outfit is _very_ small for the large film size.
I usually travel with three lenses (50, 75 and 150 with the 6 or 43, 80 and 150
with the 7). The body, the three lenses, a couple of filters, a Gossen
"Sixtomat
digital" light meter and a few rolls of film all fit in a Loewepro Nova 1 bag,
making the smallest package with the biggest punch I've ever seen. The cameras
are well made, the longest exposure time is 4s, they make no sound to speak of,
the finder is bright and big and it's easy to focus... in fact, it's better
than the finder of a Leica M6.

If you can life with the limitations a range finder has (and a lot of these
limitations are shared by nearly all rangefinders.. even Leica has a lot of
lenses that protude into the finder and no macro capability to speak of),  
you will get a small, light system with excellent low light capabilities
(just add one of the old Minox miniature tripods) and the best optical
quality you can buy. Ok, for freehand low-light situations there are lots
of better cameras... no MF camera with f4 lenses is really good for low light,
that's why they build Leica M6 and Noctilux f1/50mm lenses. However,
a Mamiya 7 mounted on one of the ultra small Minox tripods (about 20cm
high, fits in every camera bag) standing on a table and using the self timer
with 4s exposure time is a formidable tool for night scenes, the finder
is excellent for low light.

> I was  also wondering what the differences are between the Mamiya 7II and
> the original Mamiya 7? I know the newer version allows multiple exposures
> but that is not a big deal to me. Are there other differences? Is the
> viewfinder in the newer camera better or brighter? Thanks!

Forget about that. You'll never miss the double exposure feature (except
when you realize that the last shot was taken without removing the lens cap...
something easily done, the light meter is non-TTL). The finder is more
or less the same, there are no differences to speak of (don't ask
someone from marketing...). If you want a used system, go for the older
Mamiya 7.

Martin 


From: Duncan Ross [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Medium format rangefinders (M7 -vs- M7II)
Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002

Here is a comparison based on my 7 and 7II.

The 7II has the following improvements over the 7:
1)      A relocated cable release socket (The 7's is by the button release, the
7II is on the lower side of the left hand grip.).
2)      An improved darkslide curtain winder.  The 7II has a flip down winder,
the 7 has a recessed knob.  I have to remove the 7 from the tripod to engage
the curtain and change a lens.  I use the RRS tripod plate and it comes pretty
close to this knob.  (You may not find this a pain if you use the Mamiya tripod
adapter or something else).
3)      A different type of button arrangement on the exposure comp.  The 7 is
a 2 button control (one to release the lock) where the 7II is a single button
for lock release and adjustment (push then turn)
4)      A brighter viewfinder (though I don�t really see much of a difference)
5)      The 7II has multiple exposure capability.
6)      The 7II has a chrome plated battery cover, the 7�s is black.
7)      The 7II has the word MAMIYA embossed in raised letters on the left hand
grip.  The rubberized material for the grip is the same, though.
8)      The 7II has an extra strap mount so the camera can be hung
horizontally.  The strap lugs are chrome on the 7II, rather than black.

  All in all, they are very equivalent depending on what drives you nuts and
your use.   I don�t like removing the 7 from the tripod to change lenses).  The
7's viewfinder can be upgraded or under $100, but it's really not all that
different.  Since many people do multiple exposure in photoshop these days, I
can't understand paying much for this feature.


For half stop exposures, you can use the aperture ring.   I REALLY with the
exposure comp worked for this camera in manual mode (it only works with the
camera's meter).  If the meter were TTL, I guess I could live with it.
Overall, I don't find it too limiting, but it's my biggest issue with the
camera. 

In contrast to the other poster's experience, I find changing lenses and film
very fast - especially compared to SLR systems with backs and complex film
paths. You need a RRS tripod adapter plate to be able to get at the darkslide
knob and film changing buttons.  I have not experienced the lens hood problem.
I've used 6 different lenses  (some rented) and they all worked fine.  Some
lenses do partially block the rangefider view, but this is something I have
gotten used to and don't really think of anymore.   Additionally, my camera's
maximum shutter speed is 4 seconds, not 1 (I checked my 7 and 7II).

I've never used the 210 - I would not want to have a non-rf coupled lens and it
would just be another finder to put on and take off. I don't do a lot of long
lens work (I "zoom in" with my feet whenever possible).  The lack of RF, 23'
minimum focus and f8 aperture just make this a really limited lens (probably
limited to infinity focus on a very sunny day). Too many lenses can be a
distraction.    I find the setup that works for me is 43, 80 and 150.   I've
just recently been working with the 65 and I like not having to use the finder
as with the 43.  Then again, the 43 is so wide and crisp.    I don't know if 
the 65 is a distraction too me yet or not as I've only been using it 6 months.
It certainly takes longer to decide on the lens now and I'm finding myself
wishing that I didn't have it, or just had the 65/150. Everything is such a
tradeoff - I can't wait for a digital 4x5 camera with an LCD viewer and razor
sharp 75-500mm zoom lens with a weight of 2 pounds.

Along that line of thought, I've been thinking that the Mamiya 7 would make a
great digital camera.  If a 6x7 sensor back were installed with a large lcd
viewfinder, you would essentially have SLR capabilities with TTL exposure  in a
rangefinder.  How cool (and light) would that be?

If you buy a camera, purchase from the UK or HK as prices are half the US and
Canadian pricing.

Duncan
         
> I am thinking of buying a medium format rangefinder (I want to move up from
> 35mm but don't think I would be willing to lug around a MF SLR system). I
> looked at the Mamiya 7II and the Bronica 645RF today. I really liked the
> feel of the Bronica - nice grip, just the right size to be comfortable....
> but liked the bigger negative/slide of the Mamiya 7II. I was wondering if
> people who have used these cameras can share their impressions.
>
> I was  also wondering what the differences are between the Mamiya 7II and
> the original Mamiya 7? I know the newer version allows multiple exposures
> but that is not a big deal to me. Are there other differences? Is the
> viewfinder in the newer camera better or brighter? Thanks!
>
> Jason 
--
Duncan Ross
http://DuncanRossPhoto.com 


From: [email protected] (Bill Hilton)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Date: 14 Dec 2002 
Subject: Re: Medium format rangefinders (M7 -vs- M7II) 

>From: Duncan Ross

>Here is a comparison based on my 7 and 7II.

(lots of good info snipped)

>For half stop exposures, you can use the aperture ring.

There are no click stops between full apertures.  I read somewhere  you could
leave the marker part way between aperture clicks and it would do half
apertures, but the time or two I tried this it didn't seem to work.  I shot
three frames, say f/4, then half-way, then f/5.6 and the half-way frame was
identical to one of the others.

Is everyone getting this to work right?  Maybe I need to run another test ...

>my camera's maximum shutter speed is 4 seconds, not 1 (I checked
>my 7 and 7II).  

I wrote 1 sec but re-read the manual and you're right.  What happens is that
when shutter speeds drop to between 1 and 4 seconds the viewfinder flashes LT
in red as a warning (I guess LT stands for "Long Time"?).  When I got this
flashing last week I assumed it was an error message, not a warning (didn't
have the manual 3 miles out in the woods), so I was wrong about the longest
shutter speed.  (Thanks for pointing that out :)

>In contrast to the other poster's experience, I find changing lenses and
>film very fast.

Compared to my 35 mm it's a lot slower.  Compared to my 645 it's also a lot
slower.  Changing lenses means you have to twist the bottom ratchet to close
the dark-slide, then change the lens like normal (except that on both my other
systems the rear lens caps are interchangeable while on the Mamiya they aren't
since the rear element sizes are so different), then clear the darkslide.  It's
a lot better now that I have the RRS plate but still slower than my other
systems.

Same with changing film, on 35 mm it's a snap.  With my 645 I have film inserts
which I pre-load so I just pop in a fresh 30 frames in about 3 seconds, quite a
bit faster than with the 7 II.  This is usually not a big deal, but it is a
concern when shooting landscapes and the light is rapidly changing :)

>Along that line of thought, I've been thinking that the Mamiya 7 would make a
>great digital camera.

How would you get a back on it since the current back isn't interchangeable?

Bill


From: "Tom Westbrook" [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Mamiya 7II/43mm question
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003


Minimum focus for that lens is 1 meter/3ft 3in. No barrel distortion
that I've noticed with landscape & architectural subjects. See
http://www.twestbrook.com/Photography/Gallery/pilsbury-elevator.html for
an example photo with the 43mm (I cropped some off the bottom of that
photo, but the top corners are intact.). I haven't heard of any
revision--the focusing distance is close to similar lenses for Leica M
(which are about .7 meters).
--

Tom Westbrook
http://www.twestbrook.com

"John D. Romano" [email protected] wrote 
> I had read somewhere that this combo only gives you a minimum focus distance
> of 6'.
> Is that correct and is there any way to get around it ?
> Any word on the street or from any Photo/Trade Shows of a revised version of
> this lens that will get past this limitation ?
> I like doing ultrawide/up close candid face portraits.
> Also, how bad is the barrel distortion on this lens ?
> As long as camera and subject are on the same horiz plane and a parallel
> vertical
> plane, will it give you an accurate non-distorted rendition of the subject
> matter ??
> Thanks for any and all.


From: [email protected] (Bill Hilton)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Date: 25 Jan 2003 
Subject: Re: Mamiya 7II/43mm question


One more thing ... you mentioned using the 43 mm for close-up portraits ... it
dawned on me later that if you're using this lens hand-held (something I've yet
to do) you won't be able to focus and frame with the same viewfinder.  There's
a separate finder that mounts on the hot-shoe and shows the framing accurately
(when set to the right distance), but to focus you need to look thru the normal
eyepiece, where you can focus using the part of the frame that's visible.

Maybe this isn't a problem for you, if you shoot on a tripod or if you use fast
enough film to take advantage of small apertures and depth of field, but
thought it worth mentioning.  It's definitely not a Leica M6 with a 21 mm lens
:)

Bill


From: "JK" [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Mamiya 7 # 7II
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003

The mk 1 has a cheesier color scheme; lacks multiple exposure; has a
slightly different viewfinder; is supposed to have a slightly less
sophisticated metering system


From: "Alan Rutlidge" [email protected]
Newsgroups: aus.photo
Subject: Re: medium format recommendations?
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 

"Op's" [email protected] wrote 
>
> Alan Rutlidge wrote:
> > " Miro" [email protected] wrote
> >
> >>"ahennell" [email protected] wrote 
> >>
> >>>Looking for some recommendations for a first-time Medium Format setup.
> >>>Most of the work will be in the field - rural settings, national parks,
> >>>& the like. looking at the wider end - 6x7 or thereabouts.
> >>>
> >>>Cheers,
> >>>Andrew.
> >>
> >>Have you looked at the Mamiya 7 II
> >>
> > If you were prepared to accept a smaller format, then maybe a Bronica ETRS
> > (6 x 4.5) might suit. It is smaller and lighter than most of the 6 x 7
> > cameras. I had an older Mamiya RB67 Pro and even though it was a great
> > camera the extra weight of the body, filmbacks, prism finder and lenses
> > eventually starts to take its toll.
> Have you seen the Mamiya 7 ????? How much does that weight ?????
> > Other than the size and weight factors, the Zenzanon II lenses are really
> > sharp.
>
> So are the Mamiya 7 series and are of better design being a range finder
> camera lenses.Just check out the distortion figures of there lenses much
> better than the ETRS.
>
> > You don't have to rotate the filmback (when using a the prism finder) to
> > change orientation from portrait to landscape, filmbacks change change
> > quickly (120, 220, 135 and polaroid), likewise the lenses.
> > The Speedgrip E allows for easy holding of the camera as well as for quick
> > manual advance of the film / cocking the shutter.
> > There are plenty of accessories available like the AEII automatic / manual
> > prism finder, interchangeable focusing screens, motor drive, bellows, and a
> > range of fixed focal lenses from 40mm to 500mm, a 2 x teleconvertor, two
> > zooms and a tilt and shift lens for perspective correction architectural
> > photography.
> >
> > Basically it's a pretty reasonable camera and if you were venturing into
> > medium format it's a pretty good workhorse too. On scales of economy you
> > get 15 shots on 120 compared to 10 on a 6 x 7 camera.
> You get so much more information on a 6x7 than a 6x4.5
> > It seems to have a
> > good following with wedding and studio photographers.
>
> What your saying here is that flash sync speeds of the ETRS are more
> suitable for weddings and studio. Well so has the MAmiya 7 - leaf
> shutter lenses.

Op and Andrew,

A rather mixed opinion review on the Mamiya 7 II. The reviewer concurs with
Op's comments on the Mamiya optics but slams the body on quality and the
problem with the rangefinder. Some problems even when the camera is new :(

http://www.kenrockwell.com/mamiya/7.htm

Cheers,
Alan



From: [email protected] (Bill Hilton)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Date: 28 Oct 2003 
Subject: Re: Mamiay 7 43mm- was Camera suggestions?

>From: [email protected] (Jytzel)

>Interesting. I was wondering if anybody has tried mamiya 7 43mm lens.
>I wonder if there is any light falloff at the corner.

I have this lens and it's an exceptionally good one. When you mount it you'll
notice that the rear element extends almost to the edge of the dark slide (ie,
very close to the film plane). Mamiya can do this with this lens because
there's no mirror in a rangefinder and the effect apparently is to greatly
reduce distortion and light fall off, compared to ultrawides for 35 mm or
medium format SLR's. 

Of course the lens sells for around $2,500 in the USA (or did a few years ago)
so it outta be good. I got mine from Robert White in England and saved a
grand, but it's still very expensive.

I believe famed photo-journalist David Hume Kennerly did an entire book using
just this lens.

Bill




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