Mamiya 645 Medium Format SLR Camera

Mamiya 645 Medium Format SLR Camera
by Robert Monaghan

Photo Courtesy of Don Slocum
Hawaiian Camera Supply Inc.
Hasselblad Specialists.. - Email

Related Links:
170-320mm f/4 Zoomar For Mamiya 645 (Stephen Gandy)
Mamiya 645 Chat (mamiya forum)
Mamiya 645 Home Pages (Chris Ozdoba) [12/2000]
Mamiya 645 Model Comparison Chart (Chris Ozdoba) [12/2000]
Mamiya 645 Related Posts in Medium Format Digest
Mamiya Japan Med Fmt Camera pages
Mamiya Lenses and Cameras Pages
Mamiya USA Forums

See MF camera reviews and mamiya related links at our MF cameras pages. Christoph Ozdoba's Mamiya site has some great resources for the interested visitor. Finally, Mamiya's website has some resources such as independent lens test reports and new model updates worth checking out too. Enjoy!

Mamiya 645 1000S with Brown Lizard Skin Covering
PHOTO COURTESY OF LEMAY PHOTOGRAPHY, FITCHBURG, MA.
John Lemay - [email protected]

Photo Notes:
FOR THE SERIOUS COLLECTOR ONLY, I HAVE A MAMIYA 645 100S BROWN LIZARD SKIN CAMERA. THIS RARE LIMITED EDITION CAMERA HAS ACTUAL LIZARD SKIN EVERYWHERE THE USUAL BLACK MATERIAL IS. NO FILM HAS EVER BEEN RUN THRU CAMERA..IT IS ABSOLUTLEY NEW!! THE CAMERA BODY IS COMPLIMENTED WITH A LIZARD SKIN AE PRISM FINDER.
[Ed. note: sold for $1300 on 4/14/98 at Ebay]

rec.photo.equipment.medium-format From: [email protected] (Mike G) [1] Kiev or Pentacon lenses on Mamiya 645 Date: Fri Mar 27 09:09:41 CST 1998 Kiev or Pentacon lenses on Mamiya 645 how to do it, where to get the gear. A little while ago I posteed a message to this group requesting information on this topic. A few of you emailed me to let you know what I found out, so here is the info ! It is possible to get an adaptor to fit these lenses on to Mamiya 645's, any model. It retains infinity focus, but not automatic diaphram control. Any Kiev 60, Pentacon 6 or Exacta 66 lens can be mounted, opening up the possibility of using some very nice Zeiss, Schneider or Rissian lenses on these cameras. The adaptors can be obtained in the States from: Brooklyn Camera Exchange - [email protected] for $159 or Kiev USA - [email protected] for $145 These adaptors are probably German in origin. In the UK and Europe you can get then from: SRB Film Service - [email protected] for #99.95. These are hand made to order. Lenses are pretty widley available, but some very cheap Soviet optics are available in the U.K. at present. For example the 30mm f3.5 fish eye is on sale for #145 ($240) Try these places if you are interested, all in the UK, sorry no email for them. Global Cameras Int +44 181-427-7492 SRS Trading +44 1923-226602 Chiswick Camera Centre +44 181-995-9114 The places are all selling the new production 'Ansnat' lenses at the above price. I hope this is useful to someone. Mike Ganley

From: john fleshin [email protected]
Subject: Response to Difference between Mamiya 645J and 1000S
Date: 1998-05-31
George, I have had both cameras, and in fact just sold my 645J with a prism for about the same price. You do not say which prism you are talking about, there are three, with the most expensive generally being the AE prism, and the lowest the plain prism.
The 1000s series has a top speed of 1/1000 second, but with big shutters, IMHO, the top speeds of 1000 rarely are accurate, also, IMO, I would have the shutter checked out. The 1000s also has two shutter releases, and slower shutter speeds up to multi seconds, I think , perhaps even up to 8 seconds. I also heard, but did not remember for sure, that the shutter speed selection on the 1000s has a lock to keep it where you left it, if you bump the thing off the auto ex setting with an AE prism, you will have trouble if you do not notice it.
I really like these cameras, but again, IMHO, the WLF is almost useless as when you turn it on its side, the mirror will make the image upside down.
Also, I have learned that some shutters need some repair, but the good news, it seems that repairs are reasonable (like under $100 for a complete rebuild), and evidentally parts are available. Bob Shell says they are tricky to work on, being electronically controlled, so you will want to have a real Mamiya guy work on it if necessary. You might want to have the shutter tested before you buy.
If the shutter speed selections are not important to you, as the body release, there is nothing really wrong with the 645j, it was brought out, if memory serves, as a lower cost option to the 1000s??
I have the 110-220 zoom, and it is a pleasure to have a MF with a zoom. I also adapt the Pentacon 6 lenses to it with an adapter I found so I can use the 30mm Russian Fisheye, so the system is very flexable for me.
Good luck with hopefully a new addiction??
John

From: [email protected] (Heavysteam)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Mamiya 645 as a 1st Med Format Camera?
Date: 22 Jun 1998
Looking for advice. I'm thinking about buying a used Mamiya 645 with an 80 f/1.9 lens and light meter prism...my 1st Med. Format camera.
It's hard to find a better starter camera for medium format. Very available, very repairable, reasonably priced and great lenses. Even better, you can start with an older 645 and keep your lenses when you graduate to a new 645 pro system. The system is also very modular, with 4 different prisms, different motor drives and grips and an excellent bellows system. The only shortcoming is the lack of interchangable backs, which isn't a big deal with a starter system.

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998
From: "R. J. Bender" [email protected]
Subject: [Rollei] OFF TOPIC Zoerkendoerfer adapters
On Sat, 27 Jun 1998 10:09:46 -0400 Bob Shell writes:
> When I still had the SL66, my friend Herwig Zoerkendoerfer adapted a 180 mm > f/2.8 CZJ Sonnar for me. It was one of the late MC ones and produced > really fine images. It also focused VERY close, since he left the focusing > helical functional, so I could rack the bellows all the way out and then > run the helical all the way out as well!

==============================
Since I've read about the Russian lenses for the Kiev several years ago I have been wondering why the Russians just don't make their lenses with a Mamiya 645 mount, particularly the more exotic lenses such as the fish eyes. Presently, the only way one can use a Kiev lens on a Mamiya645 is with a $300 Zoerkendoerfer adapter. Is it really worth it?
Another Zoerkendoerfer adapter which intrigues me is one that lets you use a 45mm Mamiya lens as a shift lens on a Nikon. If I understand correctly, it is around $450 from some of the New York dealers. Is the shift adapter a useful accessory?
R. Bender (a Nikon, Mamiya and Rollei user)

From: [email protected] (Steve Schlesinger)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: The Hasseblad Legend (FS Hasseblad System)
Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998
[email protected] (BLADHASS) wrote:
I have never liked Bronica's because of the sharpness of their lenses more than anything else. I know mechanically they aren't that great either. They hit the hand me down circut from the pro world fairly quickly. I mostly use Mamiya's, the old 645, good camera except for the plastic fly wheel in the crank, I go through two of them a year. Then again, I put through a couple of hundred rolls a year.
-Steve

From: [email protected] (Mr 645)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Difference between mamiya 645 pro & super?
Date: 8 Aug 1998
The 645 SUper and Pro are a lot alike. The Super is the older model and has most of the same features. The Super is the only 645 that will shoot without a battery. It has a special setting that gives you 1/60th mechanical shutter with no power. The pro does not have this feature, but adds a self timer instead. The Pro also works better then the current Leaf shutter lenses. The Pro will automatically set itself to 1/8th when the leaf shutter lens is activated. The pro is also now have a TTL version.
Backs, Lenses, motor drives, inserts, focusing screens, non metered prisms are all fully interchangable with the Pro and Super.. I think there is a low cost motor drive now that is not compatible with the Super and to use Pro metered prism on a Super the Super needs a slight modification.

Jon

Date: 09 Dec 1999
From: [email protected] (Eosman)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Mamiya model differences...

>Hi, > >I've recently become interested in starting in the medium format >world. It's been pretty easy to find basic information for all >of the major models, but one thing I haven't been able to find >is information on older Mamiya 645 models. What I'm wondering is >where might I find information on the differences between >the 645J, 645 Super, 645 Pro, etc., etc.?

I don't know what exactly is different between the 645 and 645j. The 645 1000s had the maximum shutter increased to 1/1000 sec. None of these earlier versions had interchangeable backs. Most accessories are interchangeable between the 645, 645j, and 1000s.
The 645 Super was the first step in the evolution to the current 645 models. It had a redesigned finder configuration and most importantly offered interchangeable backs. A couple of differences between the Super and the Pro are the Pro is supposedly more durable (according to Mamiya many of the internal components were "beefed" up). Can't say I can tell just by holding it. The Pro also has a self timer feature although you sacrifice the fully mechanical 1/60 second shutter (no battery required) of the Super. Many accessories are interchangeable between the Super and Pro.
The current models 645 Pro and Pro TL are the same except for the TL providing TTL flash control when paired with a compatible speedlight.
All of the 645s are good cameras but be aware that Mamiya has stopped producing many of the parts for the models before the Super. It may be hard to have them repaired. I recently was in the same boat and chose a used Super at about a third of the price of a new Pro. I am pleased so far.

Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999
From: "Chris Lee" [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Mamiya 645AF on Sale: Official Press Release (Japanese)
Some observations:
1. Body coverings are made of the same material as the Contax 645--industrial grade, carbon fiber strengthened plastics.
2. The Mamiya weighs (w/o lens and batteries) about 100g lighter than the Contax. However, the Mamiya uses 6 AA batteries, which are much heavier and more space-inefficient than the 2CR5s that the Contax uses.
3. The Mamiya has a LCD display on the body.
4. The Mamiya has the AF/MF switch up front, less accessible than as on the Contax (which has the switch where the right thumb would be). Also, the Mamiya lacks a Canon/Contax style dedicated AF lock button, which allows the photographer to shift back and forth between AF and MF seamlessly. (If desired, AF lock can be moved to the shutter release button on the Contax.) AF-MF integration is probably not as great on the Mamiya.
5. The Mamiya prints more data on film (date, frame ID etc).
6. The Mamiya has a matrix metering option. But I doubt most pros will use it.
7. The Mamiya doesn't have pre-flash TTL metering as on the Contax, which is very handy.
8. The Mamiya has IR to assist focusing, which is absent on the Contax.
9. Unlike the Zeiss lenses for the Contax, the Mamiya lenses have different sizes of filter thread. Darn.
10. The Mamiya lenses are far cheaper. Also much lighter.
11. No interchangeable viewfinders on the Mamiya.
12. The press release makes no mention of film advance speed and MLU.
----------
"Chris Lee" [email protected] wrote:

> http://www.mamiya.co.jp/news8.htm > > The std kit is about the same as the Contax 645 kit. But lenses are much > cheaper.

Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000
From: [email protected] (Fred)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: M645: 45mm lens history
A 45mm with a 77mm filter size is the original lens from the mid-'70s later models use 67mm I believe.
"C" means multi-coated to distinguish multi-coated elements. These lenses have more metal in their construction. Which makes them more desirable. The N lenses (depending on the lens) use some plastic in their construction like the 80mm, 55mm and other N lenses.
I just bought a "Like new minus" 145mm SF "C" lens From KEH for my 645 Pro TL, metal, big, and heavy, but I love it.
"N" means refined optics, new barrel design, these lenses are all multi-coated even though the "C" designation was dropped.
On 27 Feb 2000 19:11:23 -0600, [email protected] (JD) wrotf:

>I've noticed that there aree many variants of the 45mm lens: 45mm, 45mm C, >45mm S/C, and 45mm N, the latest. Whats the general consensus of which of >these lenses performs the best? The prices at KEH suggest the C variants >are the more desireable, but maybe not for image quality reasons. Anyone >have any input?? > >JD

Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2000
From: [email protected] (Anon)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Mamiya 645 Pro vs Super
The 645 Super, Pro and Pro-TL are very simalar in features. The differences between the Super and Pro are the Super has a mechanical override while the Pro has a self timer. The other differences were with the internal gearing and electronics. The only difference between the Pro and Pro-TL is the Pro-TL has a TTL/OTF sensor in the body.
[email protected] (SEADOOGSXX) wrotf:

>Hi, can anyone explain the main differences between these two bodies. Thanks in >advance.

Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000
From: John Halliwell [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Bronica or Mamiya
[email protected] writes

>I am on the verge of purchasing a new medium format outfit, and have >narrowed my choices down to the following two kits. I'd be very >interested in the group's opinions on which you'd prefer. > >Mamiya 645 Pro TL SV (Body, 80/2.8, AE Finder, 120, Power Drive) >150/3.5 >55/2.8 >Polaroid back >------------------ >�2,289.60p (Jessops [spit!] price) > >Bronica ETRSi (Body, 75/2.8, WL Finder, 120) >150/3.5 >50/2.8 >Polaroid back >------------------ >�2,308.60p (Jessops [spit!] price)

You've probably come to the conclusion that the price difference isn't relevant. If you don't need any more lenses there isn't really much difference, but Mamiya lenses new are considerably cheaper than Bronica (no shutters). If you plan more lenses, this is something to consider. I guess the Mamiya camera is more expensive than the Bronica, the difference is made up in the lenses (despite the AE finder & power drive).
Both kits offer good used availability.

>I know the Bronica has leaf-shutter lenses, with the benefit of all- >speed flash sync. This isn't particularly important to me, so are >there any other benefits of leaf-shutter lenses other than this?

Camera wise there's no real differences except:
Mamiya has a faster shutter (1/1000th instead of 1/500th) Mamiya has an instant return mirror (I don't think the Bronica does) The Mamiya is probably better suited to the power winder (See below)
The Mamiya kits come with two different types of prisms and power drives. The 645 Pro kit used to come with the expensive bits (finder FE401 & power winder WG401), the SV kits usually with the cheaper ones (finder FK402 & power winder WG402), you may like to know which you'll get (this info is a few years old, it may now be wrong).

Finder FE401 - offers AE average, spot and auto average/spot selection I think it uses a true pentaprism May offer better viewfinder info diopter correction? Finder FK402 - offers AE centre-weighted metering Uses a penta-mirror arrangement Very cryptic viewfinder info offers diopter correction (-5 to +5) Winder WG401 - Shoots at 2fps Can automatically re-cock leaf shutter lenses Power supply? Winder WG402 - Shoots at one frame every 0.8 sec Leaf shutter lenses have to be re-cocked manually Power Supply one 2CR5 lithium battery

Other than this it's pretty much a personal choice. I went for a Mamiya SV for the cheaper lenses and faster shutter and I think the whole kit hangs well together. The cheaper prism and finder on the SV aren't really an issue (shutter speed display is the biggest problem - 4 LEDs that illuminate and blink in various combinations). The higher flash sync wasn't really a problem (although the Mamiya is limited to 1/60th without leaf shutter lenses).
Other than suggest you have to really see how they both handle, it's your choice. Hope this helps.
--
John
Preston, Lancs, UK.

From: "M P Brennan" [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Med. Format info help please :-)
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000
If you want a reliable medium format camera, dirt cheap, and you want good quality, you might want to consider buying an M645 or M645-1000S from eBay and some Ukranian lenses from KievCamera.com
You can get the M645 with film insert and prism for about $275. The adapter that lets you use Pentacon and Kiev lenses is about $30. A 120mm or 150mm lens is about $200. An 80mm lens is about $60. You could even buy the Kiev 30mm fish-eye for $200.
I doubt you could find a better system for so little money that would have as much versatility. My primary system consists of two Hasselblads, but I wanted an inexpensive kit I could throw in my luggage or take to the beach and not worry about. This was the route I took.
Worth thinking about, anyway.
-Mike

Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000
From: David Grandy [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Mamiya 645 Lenses
I wouldn't buy a Mamiya if you have your heart set on Contax. Every little idiosyncrasy with the Mamiya has (and EVERY camera does a few things funny) will remind you that you should have bought the Contax.
Having said that I own and use Mamiya. The lenses are incredibly sharp and contrasty. How they would compare on an optical bench I don't know, but in the real world I see no difference between my Mamiya transparencies and my older Hasselblads trannies. Sometimes I like to point out that when you are looking for stereo gear you have to remind yourself that you can hear "7", you own "8" and they are trying to sell you "9"!
Another reason that I considered Mamiya is that there is a wealth of used stuff out there. And there isn't any for Contax.
I'm also concerned about the Contax AF - and Mamiya AF for that matter. These medium format AF systems are at least a generation behind 35 mm technology and I would expect that they will be improved very shortly. This will destroy the used value of the older AF body. Contax also has a track record with their little G1 rangefinder of introducing lenses that will only fit on the newer G2! And the G1 had only been out for a couple of years when this happened! I'm not anti-AF, but I think that I'd want to wait to see how this AF stuff shakes out.
Mamiya meanwhile has the track record of keeping in production - and continuing to improve upon - the RB67 that should have been dropped 20 years ago. When Mamiya introduced the RZ67 that should have heralded the demise of the RB, since they share each other's market segment. But Mamiya recognized that they are different and continued to sell RB's. So it was good to see that Mamiya has introduced their 645E AFTER the 645AF.
As for zoom lenses, I owned an older Mamiya 105-210 zoom and it was very sharp. It was also huge and I thought badly balanced, but it has been replaced by a smaller one. I like fixed focal length lenses. They are smaller, faster, cheaper and since I use a bellows lens shade as much as I can, more suitable to my kind of work

Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000
From: "M P Brennan" [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Buying a Yashica 124G: Mamiya
Patience is the key.
In the past few months I have purchased two M645 camera bodies on eBay. Each was under $200. One included a 120 insert, the other included a non-metered prism (although there was a very typical- for this particular prism- line of degraded silver across one of the mirror surfaces. It's slightly annoying but is still very usable.)
I purchased a Ukrainian 150mm/2.8 lens for $170 and a Ukrainian 30mm/3.5 Fisheye for $190 from KievCamera.com. Mike Fourman (KievCamera) supplied me with the proper adapters for $30 each.
Subsequently, I also purchased a near-mint prism for $130 and several 220 inserts for $68 each.
The kit takes wonderful pictures at a very low investment. Plus I can add more lenses for a low price.
The M645 came out first, followed by the M645-1000S and then by the M645J. The "J" supposedly stands for "Junior" and is their bare-bones camera body. The only shutter speed below 1s is "B" (vs. down to 8s for the other two). Only one shutter release button on the J (and you WILL miss the other one on occasion...) and no mirror lockup.
Check out this page for a table:
http://www.ozdoba.net/mamiya/645_ohne_mag_e.html
If you stay up for the late-night auctions you can get an M645/Prism/Insert for $250 and then get a portrait lens and adapter from KievCamera for another $200.
If/when you move up to the Mamiya M645 Super or Pro you can take your lenses and inserts with you. Only the prism won't fit. Keep that as your backup body.
-Mike
[email protected] wrote

> Where are these prices coming from? > I have yet to see a 645J go for close to $100 > They are noramlly much higher.. > > I would love to purchase one... but I have a limited budget

[Ed. note: thanks to David Grabowski for sharing these pointers...]
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001
From: [email protected] (David Grabowski)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: 645E what's the word?
Laren Miracle [email protected] wrote:

>I'm wanting an inexpensive medium format camera for wedding >photography. > >I know this camera does not have interchangeable backs. >Coming form 35mm I don't think that's going to bother me. > >I intend to buy another body later anyway and use this one for a back >up. > >Things I like about this camera; > >Price >mamiya lenses >645 formate >eye level prism >Lightness >auto exposure >Auto winder coming out soon > >Any coments? > >Larry

We looked at it and liked it quite a bit but didn't buy. We do like the Bronica SQ series a bit better, but that Mamiya is a draw non the less.
One thing I can say to you in moving to medium format for weddings, actually a couple of things:
Why move to medium format and not have a full range of leaf shutter lenses available to you? Since you are making the move anyway , you might just as well go with a system with a full ranges of leaf shutter lens options. Mamiya has a couple to offer for use with that camera but bronica is all leaf shutter for instance.
As to backs vs, inserts, the Mamiya inserts are very slight, you could put a few in your pocket and have an instant change of film throughout the day. Now granted it's not like a back where you could stop mid roll and shoot a few B+W and then switch back again but I still think one draw of that Mamiya is it's small inserts for reasoanable money. You will gain over 35 mm. in several ways as long as you adapt well to medium format shooting but certainly either backs or inserts will be a good one of the gains overall.
Another draw of the Mamiya is the interchangability of older components, like inserts and even lenses. Still, with the E the viewer is fixed , that's it you own it. However, with the Bronica SQ you gain for just a bit more money two things. You can shoot square or 645 with it by changing backs , not to mention that it has backs vs, inserts only. Secondly there are a few viewers you can use with the SQ cameras, including waist level if that's of interest to you.
I think the SQ is a more versatile rig than the E though it is a bit more dough up front. The Mamiya is probably the economical way to go.
But don't really listen to me, I ponder this stuff and go back to shooting my Mamiya TLRs and the RB !
David Grabowski

Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000
From: "M. P. Brennan" [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Pull your hair out, here comes another Kiev newbie.
Well, I always have to put in my two cents worth on these threads. I took care of my Kiev envy by buying a couple of cheap Mamiya M645 bodies and some Ukrainian glass (including the 30mm). A $30 adapter from kievcamera.com allows you to put the Kiev 60/Pentacon lenses on the M645. The Ukrainian 150mm/2.8 is wonderful, as is the 30mm fisheye.
My Hasselblads are for making money and my Mamiyas are for having fun in situations too risky for my Hassies.
The M645 is the body that the lenses have been searching for.
-Mike

From: [email protected] (Mr 645)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Date: 25 Dec 2000
Subject: Re: Questions on M645
The three positions on the 645 Super are:
1--off, locks shutter release
2--on, full functions
3--Puts camera in manual shutter release mode. It will fire at 1/60th only.
No meter, no other shutter speeds, will fire with darkslide in. Mainly used only in case of the battery going dead while in use. You can switch the dial to that mode and continue shooting with flash at 1/60th.
The 645 Super is the only Mamiya 645 that will work without a battery
http://www.jonlayephotography.com

Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000
From: "M. P. Brennan" [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: More mamiya m645 questions
If you are saying that you turn the crank once to advance the film and cock the shutter but then a small amount of effort causes it to continue around for another complete turn, that is normal- when there is no film loaded.
When I got my first M645 I fretted about this and called Mamiya. They said that this was normal behavior for a camera with insert loaded but no film spooled up. Once you load film it will take only one rotation and will not continue past that point until the shutter is fired.
-Mike
...

Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001
From: David Grandy [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Opinions on Mamiya 645 1000s
Two "gotchas". If you are getting it with a prism look for a visible line when you look through the viewfinder. These prisms often have separated from their housing and you might see this defect. It doesn't seem to affect anything but you might reduce the price.
The other defect is the flash synch speed. This camera should synch at 1/60 of a second. Shoot some film (if you can) with flash, in a dark room, so no ambient light affects the image, and with the shutter set at 1/60. You might want to try a few slower shutterspeeds speeds as well. Then look at the negs and check to see that you have four very crisp corners.
I had two older Mamiya's and in both of them (1000S and M645) the synch speed either had migrated from 1/60 to say 1/70; or there was some shutter bounce. In any event it looked like I was shooting a tiny bit "off synch". Now you may not notice this if you are just looking at proof prints since the crop for the proofs may be inside of the neg and won't show the edge of the frame.
You could have this problem fixed or just accept 1/30 as your synch speed, as I do. Heck the 1/30 is probably faster too! As for outside fill flash, go back to 1/60. The ambient light should fill in the missing edge. That by the way is why you should do this flash test in a dark room so the "fill" ambient light doesn't ruin your test.

From: "Phil Humphreys" [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001
Subject: Re: Opinions on Mamiya 645 1000s
Hi ,
I am a recent purchaser of the 645 1000S and can give the following comments :-
1) Check that the lens aperture opens and closes quickly - mine was sluggish and required a lens service - oil migrates to aperture leaves . This is a failrly cheap repair (�25 uk) .
2) Be prepared for a big weight increase over 35mm particularly if you have a 645 with prism ( mine is PD) . I have a left hand grip with mine but find it very difficult to use as it doesnt balance well (weight too far from hand!), mostly I use tripod or both hands under camera.
3) Bear in mind that without a prism , using a 645 in portrait position with a WLF is very very difficult as image is upside down !!
4) Lack of interchangable backs may be a niggle but it hasnt bothered me much yet.
5) The camera is very well built.
6) if you really dont fancy a WLF or interchangeable backs then you may want to look at 645E since it is probably lighter and has benifits of auto metering etc
Good Luck with whatever you buy !
Phil Humphreys

Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001
From: [email protected] (David Grabowski)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Opinions on Mamiya 645 1000s
"Phil Humphreys" [email protected] wrote:

>look at 645E since it is probably lighter and has benifits of auto >metering etc

One thing I liked about the 645E I tried was the bright viewer and the added grip Mamiya was offering at the time, is on the right side. The grip attaches to the bottom like most grips but the handle is on the right side. You are also correct in so much as it feels light to me, though I do shoot the RB and Mamiya TLRs.
I think the 645E is a good choice for a brand new starter camera in medium format if you don't need a large selection of leaf shutter lenses.
As to the 1000S and the original poster , I would be leary of parts stock, call Mamiya and see how the parts situation is holding out. I called them recently about stock for the TLRs and they said it was getting low, and the same for the 645 Super. Quite honestly, if I were looking to move into older systems right now, I'd seriously look at Hassy ( maybe 500cm) or just plain old Rolleiflex both of which seem always repairable. However in terms of useability, the 1000S should be a good camera, just a matter of for how long.
David Grabowski

From: [email protected] (Rafe B.)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000
Subject: Mamiya 645E -- Opinions?
Please forgive me if this is an old topic.
I recently bought a brand new Mamiya 645E. A disaster befell this camera., and Mamiya service says the body is totalled.
This makes me question the wisdom of the "integrated" design of the 645E.
My question, then... Mamiya offers to sell me a new 645E body for $700, more or less. Should I take them up on that offer, or go with one of the older models, used (on eBay, for example.) And if so, any recommendations on *which* older models to go for, or which to avoid?
On a related topic... would anyone care to suggest an honest, reliable
service center for Mamiya MF cameras?
Thanks in advance...
Rafe B.

From: [email protected] (BandHPhoto)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Date: 16 Feb 2001
Subject: Interesting Mamiya ideas
At PMA, Mamiya showed prototypes of their 645AF bodies with Poccket WIzard senders built in. Their idea is that many wedding shooters and many studio shooters would consider it a boon to have the complete sender inside the camera, operated from the same LCD screen as the rest of the camera is. There'd be far fewer wires and a less cumbersome set-up.
They're considering asking Mamiya/Japan if the set-up can be done from the factory, and tentatively plan to offer it as a retrofit to 645AF and ProTL bodies by Summer, 2001.
They're also marketing two new Sekonic meters -- the L608 & L358 with a slot in the back so an owner can buy a chip which adds a Pocket Wizard sender to the meter, letting you pop your strobes one at a time or all at once cordlessly from the meter. With that, they have a new attachment for the flash heads (or the off-camera flash in a 2-light wedding set-up) which sends positive confirmation that the flash tube has fired back to the Pocket Wizard sender. If any head fails to fire, you know that it failed, and you know which.
They also showed a very pretty very much over-engineered bracket for their 6x4.5 bodies which switched from horiz to vert as smoothly as any I have ever handled.
Finally, the Pocket Wizard Max is being outfitted as a transceiver -- any unit can send or receive. Not bad.
===============================
regards,
Henry Posner/B&H Photo-Video
http://www.bhphotovideo.com
[email protected]

Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001
From: Marv Soloff [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Mamiya 645 Prism Problem
The PD prism finder on my Mamiya 645 has developed a visible and annoying band (optically) a 1/4" wide about 1/3 of the way from the top of the screen when looking thru it. It is my understanding that this band, which does not affect the taken picture, is due to the disintegration of the balsam binder used by Mamiya to glue the prism halves together. I am told by a good camera repair person that this is rather common with old(er) Mamiya prism finders.
It is also my understanding that Mamiya factory service no longer repairs these prism finders nor supplies the raw prisms for replacement.
Question: Has anyone had a Mamiya prism finder with this "banding" problem repaired? If so, who did the work, and what was the cost.
Any information on resolving this annoying problem will be gratefully accepted.
Regards,
Marv

Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001
From: "M P Brennan" [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Mamiya 645J
"Ken Rowe" [email protected] wrote

> How is different between models and in price wise? > J645, M645, M645-1000S, M645 Super, or 645 Pro.

In 1975, Mamiya came out with the M645 which had removable inserts but not removable backs. It had a max shutter speed of 1/500. They then came out with the M645-1000S that went up to 1/1000 shutter speed and included a self timer. Then came the M645J (junior) which deleted a few features from the M645 (mirror lock-up, shutter speeds slower than 1 second) and sold for a lower price.
The above three cameras share inserts, prisms, crank handles, focussing screens and lenses.
Next came the Super, which incorporated a removable back. It also has a nice feature where it will work at synch speed (1/60) even with a dead battery. As far as I know, it's the only Mamiya 645 that will do that. Nice thing to have if your battery dies during a wedding shoot.
Then came the Pro and its various iterations.
The Super and Pro share lenses and inserts with the earliest 645 cameras but only share focussing screens, prisms and crank handles with each other.
There is also a 645E which, in my opinion, is a modern M645 (non-removable back). Still shares inserts and lenses with the others. Nice camera that I will probably buy one day.
The 645 Auto-Focus cameras can use the non-AF lenses, but you lose auto stop-down. They also use a different insert, so it's kind of an island as far as Mamiya cameras go- but a wonderful island it is...!
Hope this helps. I'm sure folks will clear up any inaccuracies in my descriptions, but I think I got them pretty close.
-Mike
P.S.- the Super and Pro can also interchange film backs.

Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001
From: David Grandy [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Mamiya 654 Pro TL Q's
I've had my Pro-TL for about three years now and the durability of the camera seems fine to me. I had a tripod collapse and it and the Pro fell onto some soft ground will ill effect.
That's not to say that the outcome would be as positive every time but so far so good. I do know what you mean about the feel of the camera. It feels kind of like a heavy model airplane! Yet that plastic (dare I say "space age" plastic"?) may well absorb impacts rather than denting like the old bodies. But no matter what camera you own, if you drop it expect it to break, and be VERY happy if it doesn't!
I use the Pro-TL professionally and put 300 plus rolls of film through it annually. The only problem that I've had with it was a failure of the mirror to rise, and that was when the camera was about three months old. After a brief trip to the distributor for repair, I got it back and it has worked fine ever since.
The lenses are very nice indeed. I own a 35, 55, two 80's, a 145 soft lens, a 150 and a 210. I'd like to get something longer in the 300 or even 500 range. For me the "shift only" 50 mm doesn't have much use. If it was a tilt and shift then that'd be another story but I'd just use a 6x7 back on my field camera if I needed medium format movements.
I have no experience with the new APO type lenses but the prices are extremely high and I see no advantage picking up say a 150 f2.8 for more than twice what the f3.5 would cost and weigh. I use that 3.5 all the time and its sharpness is superb.
I really like the 645 neg format. It gives me those three extra frames per roll of 120 and I know that my clients would request non square prints in most case anyway.
Although this would only apply to smaller urban centers it seems that the 6x6 neg files that used to be everywhere, are now harder to get while products for 645 now seem to be readily available.
The biggest advantage I think that you'll find over all but the most expensive Hasselblads is that this is new technology. TTL flash, coupled meters, gee even an instant return mirror! Welcome to the 21st Century!

From: BBFoto [email protected]> Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Feedback on Mamiya 645E Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 I've used a Mamiya 645 Pro for years, along with various other Mamiya products. I recently got a certificate from them for being a "valued customer." It entitled me to purchase a 645E, an 80mm lens and 120 insert for $699.00 from my local camera dealer. The price was good, so I did it. (My dealer sells that lens for $445 and the insert for $92.) I ran a roll of 220 thru it in the studio and stepped outside and shot a roll of 120 thru it to test the autoexposure. I have to admit, I thought it would lighter. Also, it's loud and clunky sounding, which surprised me, because I think of my Pro as fairly quiet. Most of the studio shots were verticals and about 10 of them were out of focus! The viewscreen has a split prism focusing area, and with verticals, I obviously need some practice. I knew I was having a problem, I couldn't tell if it was focused or not. No problem with the horizontals. I do like the eyepiece with the adjustable diopter. I immediately found a setting that was better for me that the viewer on my Pro. I like being able to use 120 and 220 inserts. Like you, I don't care about changing the backs. When I go to a wedding, I only use one type of film. So now I'll be able to load all my inserts and use them without switching backs. I picked some difficult shots (very bright and very dark areas in the same shot) to test the autoexposure, and it didn't do so well. (Lots of wash-out) But to be honest, I didn't use my regular lab, I used a quicky cheap lab to get them back fast. So, from my limited experience so far, I have decided that there is not enough difference between the E and my Pro to justify buying it, if I had not gotten such a good price. It's loud, and I have trouble focusing vertical shots. Maybe with practice it will get better. And if I had purchased it first, who knows? That's my take on the E. Hope it helps. BBFoto JProphotoman wrote: > I need to get a new medium format camera and was considering a Mamiya 645E due > to the reduced cost. I know that I won't be able to switch film backs, that's > ok with me. I got the pamphlet from Mamiya, but was wondering what actual > owners or users of the 645E thought of it. Should I buy it, or should I stay > away from it? > > Please e-mail responses > [email protected] > > Thanks
From: "Michael Shorts" [email protected]> Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Feedback on Mamiya 645E Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 I've been using the 645E for about 9 months now. I have not used any other medium format camera. I like the large viewfinder. It's much easier to compose images. The diopter settings are nice. I'm surprised that I actually use them. I think the ergonomics are poor. The shutter release is in an awkward position. Holding the camera for vertical portraits is cumbersome. I also bought an Olympus E-10 digital camera in the last year, and its ergonomics put the Mamiya to shame. You certainly get a lot more features for your money in the Olympus. I was surprised at the lack of self timer. Depth of field preview is awkward (need to set the lens to manual). I'd like to get the rapid wind which should improve the ergonomics. The pictures are superb. Even 8x10" prints are noticeably better than 35mm or digital from the E-10 (which I consider equal to 35mm). Michael "JProphotoman" [email protected]> wrote... > I need to get a new medium format camera and was considering a Mamiya 645E due > to the reduced cost. I know that I won't be able to switch film backs, that's > ok with me. I got the pamphlet from Mamiya, but was wondering what actual > owners or users of the 645E thought of it. Should I buy it, or should I stay > away from it? > > Please e-mail responses > [email protected] > > Thanks
From: [email protected] (GLMeador) Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Date: 10 Oct 2001 Subject: Re: Mamiya 645 models ? M.P.Brennand wrote: >>Yes, there is another. I think it's called a CDS. It is generally thought to be the least desirable metered prism for the M645. The CdS Prism uses a cadmium sulfide cell that has a memory when going from bright to dark scenes, or vice versa. It has to take a moment to settle in. The PD prisms use photodiodes that do not have this memory effect. The On/Off switch tends to have internal problems. At least the two CdS Prisms that I have seem to need adjustment from time to time. The CdS Prism is not coupled to the shutter speed controls. Once an exposure measurement has been taken, the shutter speed dial on the camera body must then be set to the speed indicated on the dial on the CdS Prism. This is not a fast way of doing things, and not much different from using a handheld light meter. The CdS Prism uses a mechanical needle movement to indicate when proper exposure is set. As with such devices, it is sensitive to shock. As far as accuracy goes, the CdS Prisms that I have seem to be on the mark. However, the single 1.5-volt silver battery tends to run down quickly. I would have to say that the CdS Prisms are suitable enough if they are purchased at no more cost than the standard unmetered prism. Otherwise, look for the PD models or the AE prism. Best regards, Gary L. Meador Odessa, TX
From: [email protected] (kevin_i) Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: mamiya mounts Date: 19 Oct 2001 Yes, Mamiya has continued to use the same lens mount all along, so the very first lenses will fit on the newest cameras. One caveat is that the new autofocus Mamiya 645, while using the same mount, is a little different in its diaphragm actuation... So you will not get aperture automation even though the lens will physically mount on the camera. Anyway... a Mamiya 645 with Ukrainian Kiev and East German Carl Zeiss Jena Pentacon Six lenses makes a very nice and CHEAP combination. (In this case the Kiev 60/Pentacon Six mount lenses and adapter are prefered to the Kiev 88 screw mount because with the screw mount, you can unseat the lens while focusing -- the adapters I've seen don't lock the Kiev 88 mount lenses in place) You don't get aperture automation... which may be a problem for some kinds of shooting, but otherwise it's pretty easy to use. Personally, I don't have any Mamiya lenses for my M645... I only use Kiev and Pentacon lenses on it, but have never found myself longing for 'real' Mamiya glass. -Kevin [email protected] (Thom) wrote > I've noticed that you can get KIEV lenses in various mounts now > including the 645 Mamiya's plus an adapter for the Type B or P mounts > to the Mamiya. > > My question is: Are all the Mamiya 645 camers the same mount wise??? > Reason I'm asking is that a used 645J (and the like) with the cheaper > Kiev lenses might be a good way to go. > > THOM
From: [email protected] (W. Paul Mills) Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Mamiya 645 AFD Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 "Loren" [email protected]> writes: > Can anyone tell me about the camera. Is it available in the USA? How does > it differ over the AF. > > Thanks in advance > > Loren According to a mailing from MAC it is availiable and in stock. Listed features infared autofocus assist, digital back-ready, 5-segment multi-pattern meetering Paul
From: [email protected] (Wong_Leland) Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Mamiya 645 AF Date: 22 Sep 2001 Karen: In addition to the inputs from this newsgroup, look at the archives section of the 645AF user's forum at mamiya.com. A few month back, users voiced concerns about reliability such as stuck shutters (it's supposed to open when you remove the film back so you don't stick a finger into the thin metal blades), error codes in the LCD that accompanied locked up cameras, and so forth. To me, there seemed to be an unusual quantity of threads about 645AF reliability compared to Mamiya's other users forums. The usual fixes were recommended such as cleaning the contacts, trying new batteries or sending it in. From what I've seen the best fix is to return it to Mamiya for repair. The turnaround time was about 3 weeks (just letting the repair process run it's normal route). Unconfirmed rumor says the repair/overhaul includes updating the firmware, changing one of the film back interlocks (the little finger at the bottom where the back "hinges" on to the body), and something to the lens mount. This is unofficial information, meaning Mamiya did not provide this information, it was gossip at the camera store. It looks like Mamiya uses gold plated contacts in the lens to body connector. But I've seen the plating rub off from the lens side (male) and "smear" between the flat contact points on the body side. The loss and accumulation of conductive plating material seems like a long term problem. Several responses from Mamiya in the users forum recommended contact cleaning to remove invisible traces of oil and dirt to improve reliability. For a "professional" grade camera, I would not expect to always have to "baby it". For example, I haven't seen many high end Nikon or Canon system users worried about always keeping the electrical contacts prissy clean. Sure battery contact cleaning is a maintenance item, but in other brands does invisible dirt/oil lead to sudden and total failure often enough to start complaints in a user forum? One other peeve. Even though NiMH can be used in the 645AF, the LCD battery indicator starts to show "low" or the half-battery icon after about 250 shots. But fire off a shot and the icon pops back to full. It's like the battery capacity threshold was designed for 1.5 volt disposable batteries and not for 1.25 V rechargables. It doesn't cause the camera to shutdown. It's just alarming if you're not ready to see it so soon. There doesn't appear to be a fix for this. Even the dealer said "Yeah, mine does that too." So aside from the plating and battery icon issue, everything seems to work fine after the repair and overhaul. Too bad there's no way to confirm if/what design changes were made, and which serial number began implementing them. That's what I've seen. I'd like to hear what others have to say. Good luck to all. Leland

From: "Subrata Chattopadhyay" [email protected] To: [email protected] Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 Subject: [Contax] Comparison of Mamiya / Contax 645 AF lenses Hello! I'd like to draw the attention of all the list members to the following link. http://www.mamiya.com/assets/pdfs/645AFD/645AFLensesChart.pdf May I request for opinion from any list member who has used both systems to share his/her experience with us? Thanks and regards. Subrata Chattopadhyay.

From Russian camera mailing list: Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 From: Bob Shell [email protected] Subject: Fisheye for Mamiya Did you folks know that our friends over at Arsenal Zavod in Ukraine are now making some of their lenses in Mamiya 645 mount? I just got in the 30mm fisheye. It is Mamiya 645 factory built with full auto diaphragm and the light metering fork on the aperture ring. I'm assuming that they will make other lenses in this mount in the future. Mine came from Mike Fourman. Bob

From Rollei Mailing List: Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 From: Bob Shell [email protected] Subject: Re: [Rollei] OT: Soviet cameras David Seifert at [email protected] wrote: > Note that when the 30mm Zodiak lens is mounted on a 35mm camera it is still > a 30mm lens which is no longer a fish-eye but just a very large and heavy, > moderate speed, mildly wideangle lens with lots of linear distortion. It > is only a superwide when covering the 6x6 frame and thus big deal, The > Zeiss Jena 180 and 300 lenses, on the other hand are quite useful (albeit > large and heavy) when mounted on a 35mm camera. The 30mm, now renamed Arsat, is being manufactured in dedicated Mamiya mount now. It has auto diaphragm, meter coupling fork, and works great! Mike Fourman sent me one to try and I am having fun with it. The fisheye effect is less pronounced on a 645 camera but still pretty neat. Bob

From: John Halliwell [email protected] Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Any opinions on the Mamiya 645 AF? Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 Les Holder [email protected] writes >As for the lens question the AF uses the same mount as 645's but as you know >not autofocus. Manual focus lenses will fit the mount, but there is no connection to the aperture mechanism (lever on MF, electronic on AF). So with manual focus lenses on the AF body (and vice versa) you are limited to stop down operation. I believe the shift lenses are limited to stop down operation on the manual focus body anyway, so in this case, they work the same. -- John Preston, Lancs, UK. Photos at http://www.photopia.demon.co.uk

[Ed. note: thanks to Anthony Skirlick for sharing this tip on diopter swapouts!] Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 From: Anthony Skirlick [email protected] To: [email protected] Subject: (no subject) this may be of help for you....I was searching all over the place to solve my diopter problem with my Mamiya 645 1000s CDS prism finder. There are no dipopters available it seems except the big screw in one for the waist level finder. Anyway this might help. I have several NIKON SLR's and I found that diopters that fit over the view finder for the F/401, 401x, F601/F501 etc fit exactly the CDS prism finder!!! It is a perfect fit. I use the 2+ diopter and the serial number for the Nikon product (skew) 18208 02943 3..and it has Nikon F-501 on the small gold box it came in.. This is available through B&H. There are of course other diopter formulations available with this mount. Secondly....the rubber eye piece that would normally hold the Mamiya CDS prism finder screw in diopters (which I cannot find to save my life) will NOT fit the outside of the Nikon diopters once mounted on the prism finder but it appears that with a bit of tweaking with needle nose pliers you might be able to spread the flanges on either side enough to fit over the Nikon diopter lens. But what I also found out is that the round NIKON diopters that are used on the FA, FE2, FM2 (which coincidentally is the the SAME round diopter that fits all the F2 finders) will insert perfectly into the Mamiya eyecup but will not thread since it is just barely not wide enough...however with just a spot or two of super glue...it will stay perfectly in place inside the eyecup. You then could not tell whether this was a Mamiya or some other brand of diopter once it is inside the eyecup with a nearly perfect...the skew number on my 2+ Nikon FA-FE2-FM2-FE-FM diopter is 18208 02933 4...and is available through B&H. If you have any questions about this, please let me know...but this certainly had become a problem for me since I do not like using eye glasses and would always rather use diopters. Tinkering around this morning with these Nikon diopters solved the problem. I tried so many stores and both new and used to obtain diopter correctors for the CDS prism and was told NOT AVAILABLE or we NEVER get them....etc..that I was wondering if Mamiya EVER produced them in the first place!!!!! This is a doable and cheap work around...and cosmetically nearly a perfect solution.

From rollei mailing list: Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 From: Bob Shell [email protected] Subject: Re: [Rollei] (OT) Mamiya 645 anyone? and a Capitol Hill Rollei adventure Craig Roberts at [email protected] wrote: > Does anyone have any experience with an older Mamiya 645? If so, howja like > it? > Which model? There are several. I wrote the Mamiya Medium Format Systems manual ten years ago and am revising it now for a new edition. I know these cameras reasonably well. ....

From rollei mailing list: Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 From: "John A. Lind" [email protected] Subject: Re: [Rollei] (OT) Mamiya 645 anyone? and a Capitol Hill Rollei adventure Craig Roberts asked: >Hey y'all, > >Does anyone have any experience with an older Mamiya 645? If so, howja like >it? I presume you're asking about the M645 SLR's . . . I have and use an M645j with PdS metered prism finder. There are three body models, the M645, the M645-1000S and the M645j. The latter two are variants of the M645 with slight feature differences. It's my impression Mamiya must have hired the guy who designed the Nikon F and/or the F2. They remind me of a 645 SLR version of a Nikon manual focus/exposure "F" mount body in a number of ways. M645: Electronic Focal Plane Shutter 120 (15 exp.) or 220 (30 exp.) Inserts B & 8 - 1/500th sec. Shutter Speeds Two shutter releases (located for WLF and prism use) Mirror Lock-Up (MLU) DoF Preview: A/M Switch on Lens Multiple-Exposure Switch X-Sync (1/60th) and FP-sync PC sockets 3/8" and 1/4" tripod socket PX28 silver cell M645-1000S: M645 with: 1000th Second Shutter Speed Shutter Speed Dial Lock 5 - 10 Sec Self-Timer DoF Preview Lever on Body M645j: M645 **without**: 8 sec. - 2 sec. Shutter Speeds [8 - 2 sec. available using shutter speed dial on PdS metered prism] Second Shutter Release for WLF Mirror Lock-Up FP-Sync PC Socket 3/8" tripod socket IMO, they're a workhorse built like a tank; rugged compared Mamiya's current M645's. I don't mind the extra weight. Mamiya has maintained lens mount compatibility throughout all its manual focus 645 SLR camera bodies. Current production manual focus 645 lenses with fit all three of these bodies. They have similarly maintained the same film inserts for 120 and 220 even though newer models have removeable backs . . . a drawback of the older M645's but not one that affects how I use it. As with any 645 SLR, a prism finder is much more useful than a WLF for vertical compositions. A "deluxe" hand grip is strongly recommended for hand-held use with a prism finder (the "deluxe" version is much better made than the non-deluxe one). The lenses have proven to be excellent (IMO they're one tier down from Carl Zeiss and Schneider-Kreuznach). Any of the older M645's is a good entry-level MF SLR. -- John

From From rollei mailing list: Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 From: Bob Shell [email protected] Subject: Re: [Rollei] (OT) Mamiya 645 anyone? and a Capitol Hill Rollei adventure John A. Lind at [email protected] wrote: > IMO, they're a workhorse built like a tank; rugged compared Mamiya's > current M645's. I don't mind the extra weight. Mamiya has maintained lens > mount compatibility throughout all its manual focus 645 SLR camera > bodies. Current production manual focus 645 lenses with fit all three of > these bodies. They have similarly maintained the same film inserts for 120 > and 220 even though newer models have removeable backs . . . a drawback of > the older M645's but not one that affects how I use it. As with any 645 > SLR, a prism finder is much more useful than a WLF for vertical > compositions. A "deluxe" hand grip is strongly recommended for hand-held > use with a prism finder (the "deluxe" version is much better made than the > non-deluxe one). The lenses have proven to be excellent (IMO they're one > tier down from Carl Zeiss and Schneider-Kreuznach). I have to disagree on the build. Starting with the 645 Super and through to the 645PRO and 645PRO TL they were considerably more rugged that the older ones. The old ones were designed as amateur cameras and built accordingly and will not hold up to heavy use. The new generation use more robust gears an stronger castings. I used a 645PRO in my studio for more than ten years and it held up perfectly without ever having a problem. I used to have friends who used the old ones, and they were always bringing them in to me for repairs. The original Mamiya 645 was designed to have interchangable film backs. At some point prior to its introduction the decision was made that amateurs would not buy interchangable backs, so the camera was made with solid sides. Pull off the side plates and you can see that the film back is a separate module and all of the necessary mechanical stuff for interchangable backs is there!!! I agree on prism. It is a necessity. It is nearly impossible to shoot verticals with the WLF. I would not buy one without a prism finder. Lens quality is variable in the old lenses, but most were acceptable. Starting at the time of the 645PRO introduction a serious program to improve lenses was started and the current lenses don't take a back seat to anyone. Medium format sales are depressed right now so prices of used medium format cameras are down considerably. If you want one, now's a good time to buy. And don't forget the 645E. You can buy it brand new with normal lens and prism viewfinder for around $ 1,000. Bob

From: "David J. Littleboy" [email protected] Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Mamiya 645 AFD vs Contax 645 Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 "Eric Stral" [email protected] wrote: > I am about to purchase a 645 autofocus system, ... > I shoot mainly nature portraits, that is close-ups of flora and fauna, as > well as, scenics. I will be using the camera chiefly as a field piece. Why autofocus? At least in Japan, that ups the price of the basic kit by over 50% (Mamiya 645 ProTL vs. Mamiya AFD), and lens prices are almost double for optically identical lenses. Other than having to focus, the 645 ProTL is pretty much an identical camera. (The standard screen is quite bright and the split image and microprism seem to work well, at least playing with it in the store. (I'm still thinking about buying one.)) David J. Littleboy Tokyo, Japan

From: "David J. Littleboy" [email protected] Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Mamiya 645 AFD vs Contax 645 Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 "Eric Stral" [email protected] wrote: > "David J. Littleboy" [email protected] wrote in message > > Why autofocus? At least in Japan, that ups the price of the basic kit by > > over 50% (Mamiya 645 ProTL vs. Mamiya AFD), and lens prices are almost > > double for optically identical lenses. > > > I am not particularly interested in athe autofocus aspects of the camera as > I am looking for the integration between the camera and any future digital > backs. Then you're probably less price conscious than I. FWIW, the Mamiya 645 ProTL can use the Megavision S2 and S3 backs, but from the ads in the Japanese camera mags, I take it that Mamiya is pushing the 645 AFD model as being their ready-for-digital model. So you are, I think, right that you should be looking at the AFD model. David J. Littleboy Tokyo, Japan

From kiev88 mailing list: Date: Sun, 09 Jun 2002 From: Stephen Castello [email protected] Subject: Re: P6 to Mamiya adapter All the Mamiya 645 cameras use the same mount, the only one that has some differences is the Auto focus model. The only thing you lose with the M645 to P6 adapter is auto-stopdown of the lens. I have two adapters for my M645 1000S, one for Kiev88 screw mount and another one for the P6 mount. Infinity focus is fine with either adapter. Stephen "parlin44" [email protected] wrote: >Hi group, > >I'm looking for an alternative body and thought of Mamiya 645E/Pro >series. >1- I've seen P6 lenses on older Mamiya M645 1000S models, I'm not >familiar with Mamiya system, is the new Mamiya using the same mount >as the 1000S? in which case I can use the same adapter, otherwise is >there adapter for the 'new' mamiya models? > >2- Is the auto feature retained? or am I shooting in step-down mode? > >3- Some feedback from users using Mamiya-P6 setup will be greatly >appreciated. > >TIA, >parlin

From: "David J. Littleboy" [email protected] Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Mamiya 645E for ~$700? Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 "Oscar" [email protected] wrote: > > It's just a discussion. Doesn't it seem odd to you that Mamiya has dropped > its price on the 645e by 50%? I've never known any business to drop its > price on a hot selling item, be it cars, cameras, etc. Yes. At US$1,400 or so, it's unlikely to be a hot selling item. Mamiya is somewhat overpriced in the states, so maybe they've figured that they're on a point in the supply/demand elasticity curve where lowering the price would increase profits. Or maybe they're positioning it as a loss leader to sell more lenses. Or maybe they've got the kinks out of their mfg. line in China and are producing them hand over fist and need to move them radically faster. I'd guess, all of the above. > Maybe the digital age isn't the cause of the price drop; perhaps, as I > mentioned, it wasn't marketed properly. Photographers going into medium > format are experienced [not necessarily good] and are looking for more > advanced equipment. This is quite likely as well. At US$700 it's an entry level camera competing with used Fujis and the Kiev 88. And I'd guess it would complete quite nicely against those... David J. Littleboy Tokyo, Japan

[Ed. note: with rise of digital, and 50% decline in USA medium format sales, we are seeing some great bargains such as this Mamiya 645E for $750 new in USA...] From: Drew Saunders [email protected] Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Mamiya 645E now fairly inexpensive. Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 I'm sure many of you know this already, but the prices on the 645E have dropped significantly recently. I was thinking about this camera a while back when the kit was $1300, but now they're under $800, and that's for the kit (w/ lens and insert) that includes the rapid winder. At that price, I decided to fill in the gap between my 35mm stuff and 4x5 and ordered one. Now I think I'll do a google search to see what folks say about the camera (a little out of sequence, I know...) Drew -- Drew W. Saunders

From: [email protected] (BBFoto) Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Mamiya 645E now fairly inexpensive. Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 As a "valued Mamiya customer" I received a certificate to buy the 645E kit from any dealer for $699.00 right after they first came out. I bought it to back up My 645 Pro TL at weddings. I ended up replacing the Pro with the E because I liked it better. It accepts both the 120 and 220 inserts I already had. It's lighter and the viewer has a built in diopter adjustment. I never used the meter on either camera so that's not a big deal to me. The only problem I've encountered is the winding crank sticking. It comes loose after you wiggle it a few times but it is irritating. I have noticed that it only happens when shooting verticals with the crank side down. At the same time I got this "special deal" Mamiya was offering rebates and free lenses if you bought the E, so I really don't think the price has come down, It's just no longer disguised. IMHO it is well worth the money. I've enjoyed it. BBFoto Drew Saunders [email protected] wrote: >I'm sure many of you know this already, but the prices on the 645E have >dropped significantly recently. I was thinking about this camera a while >back when the kit was $1300, but now they're under $800, and that's for >the kit (w/ lens and insert) that includes the rapid winder. At that >price, I decided to fill in the gap between my 35mm stuff and 4x5 and >ordered one. Now I think I'll do a google search to see what folks say >about the camera (a little out of sequence, I know...) > >Drew

From: "David J. Littleboy" [email protected] Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Mamiya 645E for ~$700? Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 "Richard F. Man" [email protected] wrote: > Looks like you can now a Mamiya 645E for ~$700 including 80mm lens. > Seems really good price. So what's wrong with it? :-) The back is not interchangeable, nor is the viewfinder. Metering is center weighted only. The optional right hand grip (which has a shutter release and film advance lever) has problems: the two I tried couldn't be persuaded to half-depress the shutter button making them unusable. The prism (actually mirrors, not a prism) is ugly. It's quite a bit lighter than the 645 ProTL, and the all up price is not a whole lot more than the price of the lens, which is supposed to be quite good. And, of course, it takes the whole Mamiya 645 manual focus lens line. As I understand it, it's made in China, whereas the ProTL is made in Japan. I thought the one I tried felt well made, and the viewfinder is quite bright and easy to focus and can be used with glasses. > Is this a good system to get into MF? Looks that way to me. (FWIW, I'm finding that I don't need a grip with the ProTL, so the mechanical winder problem is less of an issue than I thought.) David J. Littleboy Tokyo, Japan

From: [email protected] (kevin_i) Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: About the maiya 645 1000s Date: 1 Sep 2002 > 1) Is the film inserts used in this model the same as the inserts used > for Mamiya's current models? (I know it doesn't have a modular back). > In the manual, the spool clip of the film insert looks like it can > really wear out after some use. Yes, the inserts are the same and can be used interchangeably. > 2) Can any other waistlevel finders fit this series? The older M645 and 1000S cameras cannot use finders from current Mamiya cameras. For the older cameras, there appear to be two waist level finders. One has a pop up wire frame sports finder (my friend has one of these), the other model does not (mine doesn't have the sports finder). > 3) This model looks really well built. Are there any issues I should > be aware of when buying used? Check the light seals. Check the battery compartment for corrosion. Check the shutter speed dial for looseness. If you're checking the camera in a store, just remember that without film in the camera, you will be able to 'crank the camera twice' (the film advance will go around two complete turns), every other frame. This is normal if the camera is unloaded, but is not normal if there is film in the camera. I've also handled an old 1000S (in a store) that would not let me fire the shutter unless I actually rotated the film advance crank *backwards* a bit after cocking the shutter. My own 1000S is not this way, and I think the camera in the store had a problem even though the clerk said "it's supposed to be like that." Point is to not assume the clerk knows what he's talking about. > 4) Any tips on how to check on the condition of used lenses for this > model? Look through it very carefully and against a lamp or other such light source (but not the sun!). Look for little spider web-like or hair-like things in the lens (fungus... bad). Play with the focusing mechanism to see if it's smooth (if it's rough or gritty, you probably don't want that lens). Check the aperture for oil or sluggish movement (which you don't want). Good luck. -Kevin

From: "Heritage Cameras" [email protected] Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Mamiya M645 Manual Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 "Martin" [email protected] wrote > > have just purchased a used M645 and would like to get a > manual for the camera. The closest I've been able to find to > date is for the 1000s, is this good enough, or are there > significant differences between the models? There's very little difference between the two cameras. The 1000S has a 1/1000th shutter speed and a self timer, but I think that's it! Hope this helps. Dave Pearman Director, Heritage Cameras Limited http://www.heritagecameras.com

From: [email protected] (kevin_i) Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: About the maiya 645 1000s Date: 1 Sep 2002 Hi. > One thing to be careful with is that there are two types of prism finders: > CdS and PD. The manual clearly describes the difference between the two. Actually, there is also an AE finder (easily identified because it has no shutter speed selection dial... only an ISO dial and an on/off switch). About the prisms, the old Mamiya prisms are known to have a problem where many have a horizontal line that runs through the finder's view. Some say this is desilvering, some say it is separation of the glue that holds the glass prisms together. Whichever is correct, it is not fixable. The good news is that it doesn't affect the images on film at all. It is just a distraction when you are trying to focus and compose. -Kevin

From: John Halliwell [email protected] Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Mamiya 645e vs Kiev 88 Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 Ron Sussman [email protected] writes >As I started to garner more paid work I ultimately felt that the Kiev was >not 100% reliable and didn't want to risk my growing reputation and >prospects for further work on the occasional missed frames and other >idiosincricities. I recently sold the camera and all the lenses on ebay and >jumped on the Mamiya 645E. This is a deal you should not pass up. Since most >of the wedding and portrait work comes via word of mouth, its not worth >risking on the Kiev when the Mamiya is so attractively priced. Also consider >that it comes with a warranty and is easily repaired all over the world were >as the Kiev becomes a nice door stop or paper weight if it dies on you. I decided that although cheap, the Kiev was a big lottery, apparently some are good, some are bad. The 645E is a bit limited (fixed back and finder) but does offer AE metering and a good entry to the Mamiya system (so an upgrade to a 645 Pro leaving the 645E as a backup is a future option). In the UK the Bronica ETRSi basic kit (body, lens, back & WLF) sells for roughly the same as the 645E, although lacking AE metering in this basic kit, it does give removable finders and backs (and leaf shutters if important). Might be an idea to check the price of the Bronica locally, it may be a better option. -- John Preston, Lancs, UK. Photos at http://www.photopia.demon.co.uk

From: "David J. Littleboy" [email protected] Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Mamiya 645 210 f/4 'C' lens similar to 'N' lens? Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 "John Halliwell" [email protected] wrote: > > Although the lens is at a good price, the new price is still within my > budget, are there any reasons why the newer lens might be worth the > extra? FWIW, the N version is available used from KEH for about US$100 more than the non-N version. A quick call to Mamiya (Japan) elicited the claim that although the coating may have changed, the optical structure/design of the 210 did _not_ change from the non-N to the N version. In my one other inquiry (35/3.5, AF vs. MF optical designs), Japan claimed identical optics, and Mamiya USA claimed different optics. (I was curious if MF users were getting left out in the cold wrt. new lens designs.) As I understand it, the "N" stands for "New barrel", i.e. they upgraded the mechanical structure, so the older lens may not focus as close. (Just guessing here.) The new 210 focuses down to 2.5 meters, for a 0.10x mag, whereas the 150 lenses get a 0.12x mag. (Which means the 150 gets a somewhat tighter head shot than the 210, although at 1.5 meters instead of 2.5 meters.) David J. Littleboy Tokyo, Japan

From: "Dan Beaty" [email protected] Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Mamiya 645 Lenses vs Hasselblad Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 Has anyone seen any side-by-side comparisons of enlargements at the same magnification of film taken with M645 and Hasselblad lenses? The reputation of the Hassie lenses is well known. But for rectangular enlargements where the 6x6 is cropped effectively to 645, I am curious off how particularly the manual focus Mamiya lenses compare with them. My tests of shots with normal lenses on my RZ 67 and M645 reveal what the math would suggest: that the 67 can be enlarged 25% more than the 645 without loss of sharpness. But at smaller magnifications the differences would be less noticable. -- Dan Beaty Columbus, Ohio USA http://www.livingtruth.com

From: "David Grandy" [email protected] Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Mamiya 645 Lenses vs Hasselblad Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 I had a Hassleblad 500CM with an 80 mm Zeiss Planar (non T*). A couple of years ago I dragged out some transparencies from the 'blad to compare them with trannies from my Mamiya Pro-tl and the 80 f1.9. Both sets of transparencies were shot from a tripod and at middle apertures. Looking through a loupe I couldn't see ANY difference between the two lenses. None at all. Now I'm willing to bet that the Zeiss would do better on a optical bench than the Mamiya but it would be only of interest to the bench. I mean if you can't see it how important is it? Although this certainly wasn't a scientific test I came way with the feeling that the Mamiya lenses were as good as I needed them to be.

Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 From: "McLeod" [email protected] Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Mamiya 645 Lenses vs Hasselblad I would agree with that and add that I have never used a 50mm Hasselblad wide angle that I found sharp. I have probaly used a total of 20 different 50 mm lenses, from the old style funnel shaped one to the newer CF version. They perform horribly in real life. I go out of my way to avoid using them.

From: "UrbanVoyeur" [email protected] Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Mamiya 645 Lenses vs Hasselblad Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 I think it is a question of vintage. In general older Hassy lens outperform older Mamiya lens, as very recent Hassy lenses have in my limited experience outperformed very recent Mamiya lenses. In the middle it gets fuzzy, and depends a lot on the lens and the vintage. In many cases Mamiya lenses from the late 80's, 90's and 00's will outperform Hassy lenses from 50's, 60's and 70's -- J www.urbanvoyeur.com

From: "Poul B-H" [email protected] Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Q:mamiya 645 polaroid back differencies Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 I found this on the Mamiya bbs: Danny Cirillo - 09:39am Jul 3, 2002 EST (2.) Mamiya America Corporation John: There is no difference in the function of the original Super Polaroid back and the one currently sold for the PRO. The older one usually had a black dark slide, the current one's is orange, and you will find an arrow that indicates how to release the lock. The current one also has a dark slide holder. If you buy used, age is not important. Check the rollers and flaps for dry encrusted developer, which could affect the film as it is pulled out. The original Mamiya Polaroid backs were made for the now-discontinued Universal Press camera. When the RB came along in 1970, the best way for the camera's designers to give it Polaroid capability was to simulate the back of the Press camera. This gave birth to the "P" (Press) Adapter, which attached to the back of the RB. The current RB Polaroid back already has the "P" adapter attached, so it is no longer sold as a separate accessory. The Super/PRO cameras do not need any extra accessories to use Polaroid. Poul B-H "Poul B-H" [email protected] wrote... > I'm looking for a Polaroid back for my M645 Super, and think that both backs > made for Super and Pro can be used, but in ads I see a much higher price for > the ones called Pro, what is the difference and are there any way of seeing > this in a photo ? > > Poul B-H

From: John Halliwell [email protected] Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Author's Update: Best Option for Entry-level Medium Format Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 Brian Haren [email protected] writes >Now for the observation. There were plenty of responses either warning >against or outright damning the Kievs. To be honest, I pretty much expected >these types of responses. However, I've also reveived no direct comment on >the Mamiya 645E package. Could this be a case of 'damned by faint praise'? I haven't been able to get my hands on a 645E, but I have been shooting a Mamiya 645 Pro for a few years. I can't comment on the build quality of the 645E body, but the rest is good stuff. The lens is going to be the standard 80mm f/2.8 N lens, the film inserts probably the same as the 645 Pro series. The finder looks similar to the one from my SV kit, in which case it uses mirrors instead of a prism (my finder suffers from very slight barrel distortion). Other than that, the big questions are do you need/want interchangeable finders or backs? You can pre-load extra inserts for fast film changes, but can't swap them out mid-roll. If you're happy with the features of the 645E, it is an excellent introduction to medium format, much cheaper than any other SLR with the same features. -- John Preston, Lancs, UK. Photos at http://www.photopia.demon.co.uk

From: "David J. Littleboy" [email protected] Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Author's Update: Best Option for Entry-level Medium Format Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 "Brian Haren" [email protected] wrote: > > However, I've also reveived no direct comment on > the Mamiya 645E package. Could this be a case of 'damned by faint praise'? It's probably just that there isn't anyone here using it. As I said, I found it a pleasure to handle in the store. The viewfinder is bright, clear, easy to use with glasses. The lighter weight makes it a reasonable alternative to the 645ProTL and 645AFD, regardless of price. It has two problems: the backs aren't interchangeable, and the metering is center-weighted only. It also doesn't have a motor drive, and the screen isn't interchangeable. But the lenses, extension tubes, bellows all work on every manual focus 645 Mamiya ever made. The lenses are quite good, are widely available used (keh.com always has a good selection), and there are lots of them (including macros, shifts, fisheyes, zooms, long/fast telephotos). The straightforward lenses are reasonably priced, although the fun lenses are a bit steep in the states. The lenses are faster and lighter than similar 6x6 lenses, and the wide angle lenses are wider. The 35mm/3.5 is supposed to be just about the worst lens they make, but I find it more than adequate (at f/8) for up to 13x19" prints (about the limit for 645, whatever the lens, IMHO). (If you want me to email you some jpegs of crops from scans, I'd be glad to.) Looks to me as though the 645e is a hands-down slam-dunk winner in the under US$1000 camera market, regardless of format. David J. Littleboy Tokyo, Japan

From: [email protected] (Mr 645) Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Date: 30 Oct 2002 Subject: Re: Mamiya 645 using Pentacon Six lenses The Image quality is generally good, but remember, you need to use the adapted lenses in manual stop down mode. You turn the aperture ring to the F-stop you want to shoot at and the viewfinder gets dark as the blades top down. The camera works as if there is no lens attached but it does work, take pictures fine. Also, some lenses will not focus to infinity with the adapter and most likely the distance scale will be off. Jon http://www.jonlayephotography.com

From: "Poul B-H" [email protected] Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Mamiya 645 C or N lens ? Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 Its been discussed here before I think: http://205.197.82.147/[email protected]^[email protected] Poul B-H "Don" [email protected] wrote... > What is the difference between the Mamiya 645 C and N lenses?

From: Stephen [email protected] Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Mamiya 645 1000s PD prism finder, fine line. Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 "Kevin R" [email protected] >Hi can anyone tell me what is causing a fine line to appear horizontaly in >my finder. Is it possible to fix and how...... >thanks >Kevin R The prism is separating where the two pieces are glued together. The only fix is to replace the prism and Mamiya no longer has them. Stephen

From: "David J. Littleboy" [email protected] Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Mamiya 645 C or N lens ? Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 "Don" [email protected] wrote: > What is the difference between the Mamiya 645 C and N lenses? Probably not a whole lot. Both of the lenses I've called Mamiya Japan and asked about (the 55/2.8 and 210/3) have identical designs. The N lenses are newer and have a slightly different barrel design. Being a wimp, I only buy N lenses, on the grounds that things like coatings and manufacturing techniques get better over time. Of course, quality control goes up and down over time, and is probably far more important than even lens design... David J. Littleboy Tokyo, Japan

From: John Halliwell [email protected] Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Mamiya 645 C or N lens ? Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 David J. Littleboy [email protected] writes >Probably not a whole lot. Both of the lenses I've called Mamiya Japan and >asked about (the 55/2.8 and 210/3) have identical designs. I guess it varies with individual lenses. The 45/2.8 C and N versions are probably different, the filter threads are 77mm and 6?mm respectively. The focus ring on my 45/2.8 C is much stiffer than those on my N lenses, not sure if a common trait throughout the line-up though. My fairly old 645 Pro TL brochure seems to suggest the 500/8 (not the APO version) is still current as a 'C' lens. >The N lenses are newer and have a slightly different barrel design. > >Being a wimp, I only buy N lenses, on the grounds that things like coatings >and manufacturing techniques get better over time. Of course, quality >control goes up and down over time, and is probably far more important than >even lens design... Some of the 'C' lenses can sometimes be had for bargain prices, but generally used 'N' lenses don't cost that much more in my experience. -- John Preston, Lancs, UK. Photos at http://www.photopia.demon.co.uk

From: "Dan Beaty" [email protected] Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Mamiya 645 C or N lens ? Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 John, There is a second 45mm C lens that has the same filter thread size and dimensions as the N lens. I compared then side by side in the store, and could only see a difference in the markings. My C lenses seem to focus more stiffly than my N lenses as well. Dan

From: "Dan Beaty" [email protected] Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Medium Format Camera Recommendations; ideas; flames ; whatever Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 Geoff Bryant [email protected] wrote > FWIW I pretty soon moved from the Mamiya 645 to a Pentax 67II. Not because > there was anything wrong with the Mamiya, but it just didn't seem that big a > move up from 35mm. 6 x 7, however, is a different story, offering far more > room for cropping while being less demanding in scanning requirements. The > Pentax 67 (preferably a II) may suit you too because in design it is far > more 35mm-like than the Mamiya. That is interesting, because I moved up to 6x7 first with Mamiya RZ67. I felt that the 645 move was not enough. But later I decided to try a used Mamiya 645, the original one. I was very pleased to find that the difference between 645 and 6x7 was not as much as between 35mm and 645 in most enlargements. Now, when traveling and in situations where the 67 is to cumbersome, I use it instead of my 35mm system. At first I thought that Mamiya 645 would be awkward for verticals, because I tried it with the L grip. But without the L grip I find it very simple to hold the square box by the side for verticals, even more so than with 35mm. The 6x7 transparency is still more pleasurable to view and handle, and worth the extra effort when practical. But I feel that many will find 645 ideal for their use. Dan Beaty www.livingtruth.com

From: "David J. Littleboy" [email protected] Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: What do you think about Mamiya 645E? Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 "mikesk8" [email protected] wrote (as above): I really like the feel of it. It's much lighter than the ProTL, yet feels solidly built. (This is my reaction/opinion: there are people who think it feels less rugged. And it is made in China...) The two problems with the 645E are the lack of a spot meter and non-interchangeable backs. One major advantage of Mamiya over certain other brands is that used lenses are available at reasonable (although way higher than Kiev level) prices. (KEH has a superb selection of used M645 lenses listed all the time.) As bobm often points out, only a few Hassy owners get around to a second lens, let alone a third or fourth. David J. Littleboy Tokyo, Japan

From: [email protected] (Mr 645) Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Date: 15 Feb 2003 Subject: Re: Mamiya 645 Super Advice? The 645 Super is also the only Mamiya 645 that will work without a battery. Granted it then becomes limited to 1/60th shutter, no meter and will fire with a darkslide in but it will still take pictures. http://www.jonlayephotography.com

From: "David J. Littleboy" [email protected] Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: H1 overpriced? Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 "Neil Gould" [email protected] wrote: > I see. How much "wider" are the Mamiya lenses? 35/3.5 vs. 40/4.0, 45/2.8 vs. 50/4, and 55/2.8 vs. 60/3.5. It's not much, but the extra speed is also appreciated for focusing. The photodo results for the Hassy 40/4 and Rollei 50/4 are uninspired enough that I'd be frightened. I suspect the photodo 50/4 is an anomaly, but the Zeiss MTFs for the 40/4 are similar to photodo's. The 60/3.5 is a very nice lens, but not enough nicer than the 55/2.8 for it to be worth not having the format I wanted. For the 35mm length, I'd rather spend US$600 and accept that it's an f/11 lens than several times that for not necessarily less funkiness. My problem with square is that I end up shooting to the square format with a square. Seems silly not to. But printing square wastes 1/3 of the paper, and always ends up being a smaller print. David J. Littleboy Tokyo, Japan

From: John Halliwell [email protected] Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Mamiya 645e-- Good intro to medium format? Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 David J. Littleboy [email protected] writes >My impression was quite the opposite: seemed very solid and well made. I >ended up with the ProTL, but only for the spot meter. The additional weight >of the ProTL is not appreciated, by me anyway. Right in the middle is the 'SV' or 'SV2' kit (whatever they call it if they still do it). Basically a Pro TL body/back/lens with a cheaper power winder (no connections to the L/S lenses and slower), and a cheaper AE finder (similar to the one on the 645E in appearance but removable (penta-mirror thingy, offering centre-weighted metering but a crude display of shutter speed). It depends how important the metering/'prism'finder (I think the 645E is also a 'penta-mirror'?) is really. The UK price for the ETRSi is very similar to the 645E and offers removable backs and finders but only comes with a WLF (no meter) and manual wind crank. -- John Preston, Lancs, UK. Photos at http://www.photopia.demon.co.uk

From: "Dennis O'Connor" [email protected] Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Mamiya 645e-- Good intro to medium format? Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 The 645E is Mamiya's recognition that the international economy is not what it used to be and that there is a shrinking market for ever more expensive bodies... My view is that Mamiya has it's thinking cap on straight and is responding with a new body that will sell in todays market by removing the two most expensive production features, replaceable backs and viewing/metering systems, with fixed units but keeping the rest of the desireable features... As I said in another post, I hope they sell a boat load of them... Denny ...

From: [email protected] (Mr 645) Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Date: 23 Mar 2003 Subject: Re: Mamiya 645 Super? doesn't have ttl or auto focus or leaf shutter lenses. you can use super or pro backs, and lenses (except for the leaf shutter ones.) Actually you can use the LS lenses on the Super. In fact, if you use the 55, 80 or 150 LS lens and the motor drive for the 645 Pro, all you have to do is set the shutter in the 645 super to 1/8th or 1/15th or slower. Without the Pro motordrive you have to cock the leaf shutter manually and also crank the film advance on the body bewteen each shot. Actually the LS lenses will work on every 645 manual focus body back to the first 645 and 1000s models http://www.jonlayephotography.com

From: "David J. Littleboy" [email protected] Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Mamiya 645E--talk me out of it? Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 "Sean Elkins" [email protected] wrote: > Hi: > > I'm (hopefully) on the verge of finding a job. As soon as I sign a > contract I plan to buy myself a celebratory present of a medium-format > camera. > > The $250 for a 55mm when you buy the $799 645E Rapid Pro kit from > Mamiya looks awfully appealing. I'm just an amatur who will use it to > shoot black & white vacation scenics to make 11 X 14 or 16 X 20 prints. The 55mm lens is an excellent lens, and you'll have no trouble with 11x14s, but you'll want to use Provia 100F for the 16x20s. That's over a 10x enlargement, and most other films will show grain. The new Velvia 100F and Astia 100F (available late summer or fall this year) should be fun, too. Another gem in the Mamiya line is the 110/2.8. Unfortunately discontinued, but still available cheaply used from www.keh.com. Although only slightly longer than the 80/2.8, I find that it's long enough to clearly act like a telephoto but still short enough to be handheld easily. And it's compact, light, and fast. > Is there anyone who reads this group that feels the strong urge to say > STOP- YOU'RE MAKING A MISTAKE? Not me. I like the 645E. Try getting used to it _without_ the winder. I find that if I hold my Pro TL in my left hand and manipulate everything with my right, it's a surprisingly ergonomic camera. Accent on surprisingly. David J. Littleboy Tokyo, Japan

From: [email protected] (Dan Quinn) Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Mamiya 645J. Any thoughts- opinions? Date: 23 Jul 2003 RE: Some Dude [email protected] You'll find the 645j in quantity any day of the week on ebay. eBay listings often provide usefull information. I purchased an ETRSi outfit with AEIII prism finder from B&H three years ago. I favor 2 1/4 sq. for ease of use but purchased the ETRSi for it's 75mm normal, faster lenses at the wide end and the promotion in effect at the time. I bought the body, back, and lens, they threw in the AEIII. I've added the 60mm f2.8, a back, Beattie Intenscreen, rotary finder, speed grip, $25 cable release, and misc. A 6x4.5 MUST have a prism. To use in portrait mode it must be turned on it's side. Which-ever prism, there is added weight and bulk. The rotary prism allows waist level and low level work to be done. If you'r less exact in your focal length and speed requirements I would recommend 21/4 sq. The camera is always upright, requires no prism and in the darkroom the negative is always upright. I picked up a RB67 Pro S with 127mm plus a 90mm off eBay for the above reasons; always upright. The RBs and RZs have revolving backs. They also have the 1.414 ratio twixt focal lengths; 65mm, 90mm, 127mm and on up. I'm moving up from B to Z. I've a 127 f3.5 Z lens purchased and will add to that. Bronica has interchangeable backs, not just inserts, screens, finders, etc, etc. I'll see if Mamiya's extra 24mm of negative (over 21/4 sq.) makes any difference. Save for above mentioned reasons I'd go 21/4 square. Probably the last word in ease of use and the quickest to shoot. Dan

From: "David J. Littleboy" [email protected] Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Mamiya 645e Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 "Ivan" [email protected] wrote > I am seriously considering purchasing the Mamiya 645e with the grip. Any > advice? I like it because of its low price (entry level), built in metering > system and the mirror lock up. > I have a Kiev 88 It seems to me that the 645E makes a lot more sense than the Kievs, at least for someone's first or only MF camera. Once you have a camera that actually works, playing with something as dense of horror stories as the Kievs might be fun. But when I go out to take photographs, I'm really not interested in the camera not working. > and have lost some shots because after cocking the > shutter I have to manually (again) wind the film then before taking the shot > I have to remember to stop down the lens. As a result I have sometimes shot > twice on the same frame, forgotten if I have wound the film, or forgotten to > stop down the lens... well I am only human. I know that practice makes > perfect but sometimes .... (I think I don't have to explain). That sounds odd: I didn't think the Kiev 88 was quite that primitive... The only problem with the Mamiya 645E is that since the mirror is instant return, you may forget to advance the film and find the camera unwilling to fire at the point you've set up the shot. > So as you can se with the Mamiya I will be able to cock once!, have > built in metering for quicker shooting, set aperture/shutter and click! or > ...? Any advice would be useful. The 645E has several problems. (1) The back is not interchangeable. (2) the meter is center weighted only, (3) the prism isn't interchangeable so you are stuck with center weighted metering. The good news is (1) the prism is quite glasses friendly (more so than the 645 Pro), (2) it's lighter than the 645 Pro. Advice 1: don't get the grip. I find that the 645 Pro works fine without a grip. Support with your left hand, operate with your right hand. (Note that this is a minority opinion: the vast majority of people prefer using it with the grip {g}.) Advice 2: get the 110/2.8 lens. Only available used, it's a lovely sharp lens with quite nice bokeh. David J. Littleboy Tokyo, Japan

From: John Halliwell [email protected] Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Mamiya 645E Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 Jeff Worsnop [email protected] writes >I got a Mamiya TLR early this year and I am now hooked on MF. The 12x16s are >much better than from 35mm. >However I would like the convenience of interchangeable lenses ( when I can >afford them ), a built in exposure meter and an SLR viewfinder to avoid >parallax(? spelling) . The specifications of the Mamiya 645E seem to fit my >wants. Can anyone advise whether this would be a good buy particularly as >regards reliability and lens performance of the standard 80mm optic? >Any info. gratefully received. >Thanks >Jeff Hi Jeff, I haven't any experience with the 645E, but shoot with a 645 Pro SV kit which has a very similar finder. The finder itself is probably going to be a penta-mirror instead of a pentaprism. My penta-mirror finder suffers from barrel distortion, which isn't really a problem but you might like to know about it for when you look through it. Mamiya lenses are comparatively cheap to buy even new (no shutters to worry about in each lens), although if you want fast flash sync you can go for one of the three leaf shutter lenses. Used lenses are very common, older used lenses can be found cheap, particularly those looking a bit worse for wear. I don't spend much time testing lenses, but I have no complaints with the 80mm f/2.8 N lens. The only other 'new' option at a similar price would be the Bronica ETRSi (but that doesn't come with a 'prism' or AE finder). A used Mamiya 645 Super or Pro might be another option, but AE prism finders are usually quite pricey on their own. You could also consider a used Pentax 645, which probably go for similar money as the 645E. -- John Preston, Lancs, UK. Photos at http://www.photopia.demon.co.uk

From: Drew Saunders [email protected] Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Mamiya 645E Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 "Jeff Worsnop" [email protected] wrote: > I got a Mamiya TLR early this year and I am now hooked on MF. The 12x16s are > much better than from 35mm. > However I would like the convenience of interchangeable lenses ( when I can > afford them ), a built in exposure meter and an SLR viewfinder to avoid > parallax(? spelling) . The specifications of the Mamiya 645E seem to fit my > wants. Can anyone advise whether this would be a good buy particularly as > regards reliability and lens performance of the standard 80mm optic? > Any info. gratefully received. > Thanks > Jeff > > I've had one for nearly a year and am really enjoying it. I'd definitely recommend looking at the rapid winder too, I find it quite a bit easier to handle with the rapid winder attached, even when using the camera on a tripod, the grip makes positioning the camera (with a ball head) much easier. The only negative is that the price seems to have gone up recently. Relative to your TLR, the only other negative is that the 645-series cameras use focal plane shutters so if you want higher speed flash sync, you'll have to buy one of the special leaf-shuttered lenses, but that may not be all that important to you. There's plenty of used lenses for the Mamiya 645 series of cameras, I've added a 55/2.8 and 120/4 macro to fill out my setup (or "kit" as y'all like to say over there) and I'm pretty well set for all I'd want. I might add another 120 or even a 220 insert eventually. Drew -- Drew W. Saunders dru (at) stanford (dot) eee dee you

From: Jeff Sumner [email protected] Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Mamiya 645AF Focus Adjustment Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 "Poul B-H" [email protected] wrote: > Does the camera have an installed or build in diopter correction lens ? > I once tested a camera that was for sale, and couldn't focus on a thing! the > owner had a 2+ diopter lens installed in the viewer. Nah- it's a clear one- I've used the built in diopter adjustment to get the black lines in the center of the viewfinder to be clear, and they are. It's just so strange- The two pictures I have at f2.8 that are out of focus, I can clearly see the line of focus *behind* where I thought it was focusing, yet when I focus to infinity, the camera needs to go just a touch more... I DO have pictures taken at full aperture that are in clear focus where I thought clear focus should be. I still note, though, that I can tweak where the lens is for better ground-glass focusing. Grrr. The repair estamate from Mamiya is almost $300 for shipping and a service job that would include the focus adjustment. I'm going to call MPEX tomorrow and see if they have another body, or are willing to trade up the AF(d). Rats. Unless there's a simpler way. -- JD

From: John Halliwell [email protected] Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Mamiya 645E Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 George [email protected] writes >I have an ETRSi with a standard prism finder and find your reference to AE >finders interesting. I would assume that most medium format users would be >using their cameras under conditions where the user would be controlling the >lighting such as in a studio and not using it for casual, candid, or >location photography. So, what is the need for an AE finder??? Or, are you >folks using your medium format cameras differently than I do??? The right MF 'kit' can shoot virtually any subject you wish under virtually any circumstances. AE finders help, but you can just as easily work with a handheld meter in most situations. Most of my 35mm work shooting aircraft is shot with an AF camera but manual exposure (often using a reading from a handheld incident meter in preference to the in- camera metering). Shooting fast moving stuff in MF really needs a prism finder, and that is probably more important once you've got your metering/camera control up to speed. The most useful aspect of an AE finder is being able to set the camera to the 'right' exposure automatically and quickly (not necessarily the exposure as metered when the shutter fires). I find using exposure lock on a predictable area that relates to the exposure you want to take a real help and most of my MF 'metered' shots are taken this way. Unless the light is changing very quickly, this technique works very well. The AE finder that came with my 645 SV kit is very basic, in 'Auto' the shutter speed is shown by various combinations of 3 LEDs and how fast they flash (helpfully specified in the manual as - steady, 2Hz, 4Hz & 8Hz), in manual you just get over/correct/under. -- John Preston, Lancs, UK. Photos at http://www.photopia.demon.co.uk

From: "David J. Littleboy" [email protected] Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Mamiya 645AFD digital back Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 "George" [email protected] wrote > Anyone know anything about the digital backs that Mamiya advertises for the > 645AFD...specs?...price?...anything??? If you have to ask, you can't afford it. More usefully, Luminous Landscape is running a series of reviews of digital backs for MF. Although he's using Contax 645, there's some discussion of Mamiya in there. (The first sample pic on the following page is with a Mamiya!) http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/mf-backs.shtml David J. Littleboy Tokyo, Japan

From: "David J. Littleboy" [email protected] Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Mamiya 645AFD digital back Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 "George" [email protected] wrote > Not a very useful reply on the pricing... I know that there are third-party > $12k digital backs that will fit a Mamiya 645 and third-party $16k digital > backs that will fit a Mamiya 645...I'm wondering where Mamiya's digital back > falls. Does anyone know? Mamiya doesn't make a digital back. The "Mamiya digital back" is the Megavision back. The 645 ProTL catalog lists the Megavision S2/S3. The S3 Pro (6MP) is $13k. Presumably the 11MP and 16MP Megavision backs are proportionally more money. http://www.mega-vision.com/products/1shot/s427over.htm (The Megavision backs appear to be tethered-only backs for non-AF cameras.) > Also, does anyone know how this compares to the Hasselblad H1 w/digital > back? (Yes, I know the combo is $18k for you bean-counters.) If you don't have to count beans, (as a Mamiya owner and IMHO) the H1 (or GX645AF) is a nicer camera than the Mamiya, and I'd guess the lenses are quite a bit better (for example, my theory is the Zeiss came out with the new IF 40mm Distagon (which is better wide open than the previous 40mm Distagon was at f/8) because they were embarrassed that the 35/3.5 for the H1 is better than the previous Distagon). Also, I'd guess the new 20MP Fuji back will be available sooner for the H1. If you do have to count beans, Hassy Japan is have a 10% rebate program: the rebates are more than I paid for the corresponding Mamiya lenses, even new. David J. Littleboy Tokyo, Japan
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