Related Links:
Kiev 60 Lenses (Ralf Radermacher) [3/2001] (table lenses, filter sizes, weight..)

[Ed. note: Mr. Small is a noted expert/author on Zeiss and related optics]
From Rollei Mailing List:
Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999
From: Marc James Small [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Rollei] CZ Jena and Ukranian Lenses -- How Good for MF

John Coan wrote:

>There are plenty of East German Carl Zeiss Jena medium format lenses on the
>market that sell for about a tenth of what an equivalent new Rollei or Hassy lens
>would sell for.  Adaptors for these lenses (the mount is a Pentacon Six style)
>are available for mounting on modern MF SLR cameras.

Hell, I regularly SHOOT with these guys. I have a bunch of Postwar CZJ lenses -- some in LTM, some in Contax RF BM, one on an Automat, Type 3, and a 2.8/18cm Olympia Sonnar converted to Hasselblad mount for my 2000 FC/M. Others on Pentacons and Prakticas. A set (4.5/4cm Tessar, 2/5.8 Biotar, 2.8/8cm Tessar) for my Contax D. Lovely lenses.

My spin (others dispute this) was that the rapid seizure by the US Army of the top Zeiss brass left some really good designers behind. That is, the Army told Zeiss' management, "bring your best and come west". The guys who were left behind felt left out of things and had a chip on their shoulder. Hence, they busted their guts for thirty years to outdo Oberkochen, and they certainly did some remarkable things -- for instance, they beat Oberkochen to the marketplace with both the Biometar and Flektogon designs (same as the Zeiss West Planar and Distagon). Where they hurt was with materials: they had to use aluminium where Oberkochen used brass or steel, glue instead of lubricants, and so forth.

Kiev lenses are just fine. I've HEARD horror stories, but I've owned a slew of this stuff over the past decade, all used Soviet gear, nothing "export", and never had a serious problem. Good cameras, good lenses. Still have a Kiev-88 I like a lot.

Marc

[email protected]

Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999
From: "Michael Liczbanski" [email protected]
Newsgroups: de.rec.fotografie,rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Experience using Kiev 60 MF lenses on M42 threadmount 35mm?

I did use many East German lenses for Pentacon Six on a Practica with the M42x1 mount. The quality varied from so-so to OK for the Sonnar (CZ Jena) 2.8/180 and Oerstegor (sp?) 4/300. I really liked the Biometar 2.8/120. It was sharp and contrasty even on a Practica, although the quality of these lenses varied considerably from sample to sample. The 180 Sonnar wide open made a great "dreamy" portrait lens - very likeable if you are into photographic kitsch.

All TTL function on a Practica PLC worked with these lenses, but I have no idea about the TTL system of Mamiya 1000.

And yes, the 30mm lens will stay 30mm regardless of format.

Michael

>Hi,
>I am enquiring to see if anyone on this newsgroup has experience using Zeiss
>Jena or Ukrainian (Russian) lenses from the Pentacon 6/Kiev 60 medium format
>cameras on a threadmount Praktica/Pentax Universal M42 mount 35mm camera
>(with the adaptor that can be purchased).
>
>What is the quality like?  Does a 30mm Arsat fisheye lens become a 17mm
>fisheye when adapted?  Will I still have the use of my CDS meter (TTL) on my
>Mamiya 1000 DTL?
>
>If you have any comments or experiences to share, please let me know what
>type of 35mm SLR and what type of lens was used.
>
>Thanks,
>Omar

From Rollei Mailing List:
Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999
From: Bob Shell [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Rollei] CZ Jena and Ukranian Lenses -- How Good for MF

Hi John,

Read "The Kiev Kronicles" which is a multi-part series beginning in the January issue of Shutterbug. We tried to cover all of this in some depth.

> There are plenty of East German Carl Zeiss Jena medium format lenses on the
> market that sell for about a tenth of what an equivalent new Rollei or Hassy lens
> would sell for.  Adaptors for these lenses (the mount is a Pentacon Six style)
> are available for mounting on modern MF SLR cameras.      

All of these are late model all-black versions with multicoating.

> Along the same lines, the Ukranian lenses for the Kiev 60 share the same mount.
> Reading past Internet postings, these seem to be decent performers, for the
> price.  Again, dirt cheap in medium format terms.
> Have any of the RUGgers tried these out?  How well do they work?  Is it a
> reasonable way for a non-pro to go.  I'm talking about $250 or so for a nice used
> CZJ 180/2.8.  About the same price for a brand new Ukranian 30mm fish eye.

Kiev lenses can be great and the can be crap. No quality control. So if you get a good one you have a really good lens, if you get a bad one you have a pretty paperweight. If you buy from someone who gives a warranty and will let you return bad ones, they can be great buys. The 150mm f/2.8 is really great as a portrait lens. Avoid the 250 since it has a fragile diaphragm mechanism and if it breaks I know of no one who can fix one.

There is a fellow named Hartblei in the Czech Republic who takes the Kiev cameras and strips them down and rebuilds them from the ground up. I have one of his rebuilt Kiev 88 cameras sitting here on my desk at the moment. After some brief testing it looks like he really does make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. The one I have has been recovered with the most godawful fake snakeskin you could ever see, but it works smoothly, and has a permanently attached film advance crank which is a work of art. He also redbuilds all the lenses and converts two of the wide angles into shift lenses. His stuff is sold by Kalimex in Prague. They seem reliable but slow to fill orders.

The fisheye is an exceptional lens, particularly when you can pick them up brand new for under $ 200. I've toyed with the idea of having one reworked around a Rollei 6000 series shutter.

BTW, word we get out of Kiev is that the last production of the Kiev 60 was in 1996 and they are just selling warehouse inventory, so the supply may dry up. Same goes for some of the lenses. My advice is buy now if you want them.

Bob

Date: Sat, 04 Dec 1999
From: tintype_NO_@_SPAM_megsinet.com (Peter Mikalajunas)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Kiev 88 lenses for Minolta?

[email protected] (Raul Franco) wrote:

>tintype_NO_@_SPAM_megsinet.com (Peter Mikalajunas) wrote:
>
>> The native Russian glass is not bad either.  I especially like the
>> Jupiter 250mm f/3.5.   The 30mm Arsat fisheye is a great buy for under
>> $200 on eBay.
>>
>> In addition you can get adapters to use these same lenses on the
>> Mamiya 645 and Nikon 35mm.
>
>Just wondering if you could comment on the of optics of the 30mm?  Are
>there two versions of this (I thought I saw two names)?  Is it sharp?
>Good color?                                  

There is/was the Arsat and the Zodiak. I believe the difference is in the coating or lack there of. However, I could be wrong.

The stated resolution is 60 lpm center, 14 lpm edge. I have no idea what aperture that is for, as I have never seen one stated. The edge softness is a result of spherical aberration, which is to be expected with this type of lens.

Looked at another way, enlarge the 645 to 11x14. IF the center on the original is actually 60 lpm, then you will be getting 10 lpm on the enlargement. Which would be considered sharp by just about anyone's standards. Beyond that, and it will become very subjective.

As with any lens, there will be variances. The best advice is to find a dealer who will give you a 30 day return policy. Test the lens yourself to see if it meets your needs.

I have used mine with both Velvia and Tmax 100. I found the results acceptable when enlarged to 11x14. I used it on a Mamiya 645.

This is not a lens you want to walk around with on your camera all day. It weighs over 2 lbs. and the front glass is very exposed because of the curvature. Having said that, with a little care, it is a lot of fun to use.

I used it for a shot of the Picasso sculpture at the Civic Center in downtown Chicago. I was standing about 10 feet in front of this 50 foot sculpture composing the shot. A well meaning on-looker stopped to let me know that I would have to take my picture from across the street if I want to capture the entire work. In reality, I got the sculpture and the 20 story building behind it all in the frame. To get some idea of the size:

http://www.bluffton.edu/homepages/facstaff/sullivanm/picasso/picasso.html

>Also, do you know anything about the adapter for Mamiya 645?  Does it
add
>extension or have glass elements?

Yep, I use it all the time :-)

You lose auto aperture with it ( always working stopped down ). It is a simple metal ring, that is milled to fit on the 645 and accepts the Kiev, Pentacon, Zeiss, Exakta lenses. You gain the reliability of the Mamiya 645 system by using it. With an M645, M645J or M645-1000 the Kiev lenses make for a great combination.

Peter Mikalajunas

Photo links
http://www.megsinet.com/tintype

Date: Sat, 4 DEC 99
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Kiev 88 lenses for Minolta?

Peter Mikalajunas tintype_NO_@_SPAM_megsinet.com writes:

>The stated resolution is 60 lpm center, 14 lpm edge.  I have no idea
>what aperture that is for, as I have never seen one stated.   The edge

My sources also give the same lpm resolution figures for this lens without quoting the aperture used.

Same source shows the 45mm to be 45/16lpmm (equiv to 24mm on a 35mm camera), 65mm lens to be 42/18 and the Kiev 150mm lens to resolve 45/18lpm. Bearing this in mind, the 30mm edge resolution doesn't look bad.

However, another source gave the "on print" needed resolution for "exhibition" quality prints to be 8 lpm will "professionally exceptable" is 6 lpmm on print.

This would seem to limit the above lenses to 3-1/2 by 5 inch prints. *However* I peersonally have used the Mir 45mm lens for large band shots enlarged to 20x24 and received no complaints from the customers. BTW, tese were shot at F11.0 and shot side by side with an old model F8.0 Schneider SuperAngulon at f11. The on neg results showed that the Mir had only slightly less edge resolution, slightly less contrast than the S.A. ---- but here's the kicked --- I used the Kiev negs for the final 20x24's because using the same film, the color rendition of both sky and grass was better with the unfiltered Kiev lens than the polarized 47mm Schneider lens.

Back to the original question: lines per millimeter ----- I have no idea what it means in the "real" world.

Wayne Catalano 504-271-1507 (voice and fax)

From Rollei Mailing List;
Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999
From: Jan B�ttcher [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Rollei] CZ Jena and Ukranian Lenses -- How Good for MF

John, here' s my experience: The Fisheye is ok (spent 240,- DM on mine), but not stunning. I got a 4/50mm Felctogon MC, that other people praise a whole lot, used it on my Pentacon Six and sold it again. (around 300,- DM) since I was not amused. The Biometar 2.8/80 passes on the Pentacon Six, but is no match to a TLR's Planar or Xenotar (available for Pentacon Six / Exacta 66 mount too).

The 2.8/120MC is a nice lens on the Pentacon Six, but gets outclassed by the 2.8/135 Sonnar, when used with an (well actaully three) adapter on my SL35E (in the above line you can find the Rollei-connection!) (or by the Apo Macro Elmarit 2.8/100 on the Leica R). Think I paid 280,- DM. The 2.8/180 MC (250,- DM) is really nice! (though it gets outclassed by the 2/180 Summcron on the Leica R) And I like the 4/300 MC (380,-DM). (Zeiss Jena all, not to be confused with the Meyer G�rlitz lenses).

The Pentacon 5.6/500 I'm trying to sell, since it's not really that great, and a bit heavy.

I still have to compare the 2.8/180 to the Rolleinart 2.8/80-200, but I think the 2.8/180 Carl Zeiss Jena will be wel lworth it's money (don't spend more than $200 on a nice "MC" one with caps)

Jan B�ttcher ([email protected])

....

Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999
From: "e M e L" [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Pentacon 500 f5.6 multiple versions?

Some East German lenses longer than 120 mm, for instance the 180 Sonnar, were made in 2 versions (different "look" for Practica and for Pentaxon Six), but most Pentacon (earlier marked as East German Carl Zeiss Jena) lenses were made with interchangeable mount to fit Pentacon Six, Practica (M42-1 screw mount) and sometimes Exakta (Exakta bayonet with an external aperture coupling.)

The interchangeable mount would preserve in many cases the auto aperture operation.

Examples of such lenses are (some were sold as "Pentacon" ):

Biometar 2.8.120 (auto)
Sonnar 2.8-3.5/180 (auto)
Sonnar 4/300 (?)
Orestegor 4/300 (manual pre-set lens)
Pentacon 5.6/500 (?)

Michael

Date: 26 Oct 1999
From: [email protected] (FLEXARET2)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Pentacon 500 f5.6 multiple versions?

from : [email protected] (Sam Sherman) 10-25-99

The 500M Lens is actually an Orestegor made by Meyer Optik (later absorbed into Pentacon) good but not as good as Zeiss. It is a $500 lens though.

It is intended for 2 1/4 - Pentacon 6. But other mounts including 35MM - Praktica 42mm screw were made. If the 42mm mount is the only one and not an adapter over the Pentacon 6 mount - you cannot remove it and find the Pentacon 6 mount underneath. While the 42mm mount may remove, finding the Pentacon 6 mount somewhere will be difficult to near impossible - I have tried.

However, some machinist may adapt a Pentacon 6 Extension tube to it for you as a mount.

FYI - these lenses have been adapted for Pentax 67 for use by commercial fashion photogs shooting models in bathing suits on the beach. The lens would cover 6x7cm and the results were good enough for reproduction in ads and expensive slick magazines.

- Sam Sherman

[Ed.note: Horizon/t panoramic cameras are also made in USSR/Russia, Ukraine..]
From Panoramic Mailing List:
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999
From: Marco Pauck [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: New inferior lens for Horizon 202?

Today I got a new Horizon 202. (My third one, the first two had problems with light leaks and film transport.)

Beside some other minor differences, I noticed that the lens is very reflective, i.e. it has a bad coating. The diaphragm is hardly visibly behind the reflections!

I know that the coating quality of e.g. the Kiev/Arsat lenses varies considerably from production run to production run, so maybe this is also just a 'monday morning problem'. However, what make me suspicious is that the designation "MC" has been dropped from the lens' label.

Does anyone know more about this or other changes for the recent production? (hi WJ ;-)

The serial number is 990790. My earlier models were from 1996 and 1998.

Marco

--
Marco Pauck - WMD GmbH Hamburg, Germany - http://www.pauck.de/marco/

Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000
From: Gary Sanford [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Kiev 88 - experience ? opinions ?

tintype_NO_@_SPAM_megsinet.com (Peter Mikalajunas) wrote:

snip.....

>As for the choice of lenses, I have compiled the following for the
>Kiev cameras.  (Really do need to get this up on my site.)

The Schneider and Zeiss Jena lenses are commonly only in the Kiev 60/Pentacon/P6 mount Some comments on the ones I have.

>Prime
>FL           Stop
>30mm     F3.5   Zodiak Fisheye Lens

Stunning lens, the only lowbuck way to fisheye in MF. I f you want panoramas, just crop the top and bottom.

>40mm     F4      Schneider Curtagon
>45mm     F3.5   Mir-26
>50mm     F4      Zeiss Flektagon

I have the late MC version and it may be the best P6 lens of the bunch. Possibly better than an equivalent western Zeiss.

>60mm     F3.5   Schneider Curtagon
>65mm     F3.5   Mir-38
>80mm     F2.8   Volgna

I have the later MC Arsat. It's a nice sharp normal lens that can have some light leaks into the stopdown lever at close focus. Not machined as well as the Zeiss but optically it's equal or better.

>80mm     F2.8   Exakta
>80mm     F2.8   Zeiss Biometar
>80mm     F2.8   Scneider Xenotar
>120mm   F2.8   Vega
>120mm   F2.8    Zeiss Biometar

I haven't used this lens that much but as many have said it should make for a nice portrait lens

>150mm   F2.8   Vega
>150mm   F4      Schneider Tele-Xenar
>180mm   F2.8   Zeiss Sonar
>250mm   F5.6   Schneider Tele-Xenar
>250mm   F5.6   Telear
>250mm   F3.5   Jupiter
>300mm   F4      Zeiss Sonnar

A big honking beautiful fast telephoto lens. Very sharp, even wide open. I use it a lot.

>300mm   F4.5   Telear
>500mm   F8      Exakta
>500mm   F5.6   Arsat Macro
>500mm   F5.6   Meyer
>500mm   F8      Cambron
>600mm   F8      Telephoto (Telear?)
>1000mm F11    Zeiss Mirror Lens
>
>Tilt / Shift
>45mm     F3.5  Hartblei Shift
>55mm     F4.5  Arsat Shift
>55mm     F4.5  Schneider Super Angulon Shift Lens
>65mm     F3.5  Hartblei Shift
>
>Zooms
>
>75-150mm    F4.5 Schneider Variogon
>140-280mm  F5.6 Schneider Variogon
>
>Extras
>1.4X Arsat Teleconverter
>2X Schneider Teleconverter
>2X Arsat Teleconverter
>Pentacon Bellows
>Arsat 20mm extention tube
>Arsat 40mm extention tube
>Arsat 19+48mm extention tube
>Pentacon made a series of tubes from 20mm to 60mm I believe.
>
>Adapter rings
>K60 -> M42
>K60 -> Nikon bayonet
>K60 -> Mamiya 645
>K60 -> Minolta AF
>K60 -> Reverse mount - for macro use
>
>K88 -> M42
>K88 -> Nikon
>K88 -> K60
>K88 -> Mamiya 645
>
>
>Peter Mikalajunas
>
>Photo links
>http://www.megsinet.com/tintype

Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000
From: tintype_NO_@_SPAM_megsinet.com (Peter Mikalajunas)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Kiev 88 - experience ? opinions ?

Gary Sanford [email protected] wrote:

>>On Wed, 22 Mar 2000 01:39:35 GMT, tintype_NO_@_SPAM_megsinet.com
>>(Peter Mikalajunas) wrote:
>
>>As for the choice of lenses, I have compiled the following for the
>>Kiev cameras.  (Really do need to get this up on my site.)
>
>The Schneider and Zeiss Jena lenses are commonly only in the
>Kiev 60/Pentacon/P6 mount Some comments on the ones I have.

This is true. It is also possible to get a K88 to K60 adapter, so that the P6 mount can be used on a K88.

Peter Mikalajunas

Photo links
http://www.megsinet.com/tintype

Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000
From: tintype_NO_@_SPAM_megsinet.com (Peter Mikalajunas)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Kiev 88 - experience ? opinions ?

.....

A totally other option. Pick-up a used Mamiya M645 and put a Kiev 60 adapter on it. The M645 sells used for about $250-$300. This opens the door to a whole range of lenses, including those only available in the Kiev / Pentacon / Exakta mount.

As for the choice of lenses, I have compiled the following for the Kiev cameras. (Really do need to get this up on my site.)

Prime
FL           Stop
30mm     F3.5   Zodiak Fisheye Lens
40mm     F4      Schneider Curtagon
45mm     F3.5   Mir-26
50mm     F4      Zeiss Flektagon
60mm     F3.5   Schneider Curtagon
65mm     F3.5   Mir-38
80mm     F2.8   Volgna
80mm     F2.8   Exakta
80mm     F2.8   Zeiss Biometar
80mm     F2.8   Scneider Xenotar
120mm   F2.8   Vega
120mm   F2.8    Zeiss Biometar
150mm   F2.8   Vega
150mm   F4      Schneider Tele-Xenar
180mm   F2.8   Zeiss Sonar
250mm   F5.6   Schneider Tele-Xenar
250mm   F5.6   Telear
250mm   F3.5   Jupiter
300mm   F4      Zeiss Sonnar
300mm   F4.5   Telear
500mm   F8      Exakta
500mm   F5.6   Arsat Macro
500mm   F5.6   Meyer
500mm   F8      Cambron
600mm   F8      Telephoto (Telear?)
1000mm F11    Zeiss Mirror Lens

Tilt / Shift
45mm     F3.5  Hartblei Shift
55mm     F4.5  Arsat Shift
55mm     F4.5  Schneider Super Angulon Shift Lens
65mm     F3.5  Hartblei Shift

Zooms
75-150mm    F4.5 Schneider Variogon
140-280mm  F5.6 Schneider Variogon

Extras
1.4X Arsat Teleconverter
2X Schneider Teleconverter
2X Arsat Teleconverter
Pentacon Bellows
Arsat 20mm extention tube
Arsat 40mm extention tube
Arsat 19+48mm extention tube
Pentacon made a series of tubes from 20mm to 60mm I believe.

Adapter rings
K60 -> M42
K60 -> Nikon bayonet
K60 -> Mamiya 645
K60 -> Minolta AF
K60 -> Reverse mount - for macro use

K88 -> M42
K88 -> Nikon
K88 -> K60
K88 -> Mamiya 645

Peter Mikalajunas

Photo links
http://www.megsinet.com/tintype

Date: 08 Aug 1999
From: [email protected] (FLEXARET2)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Few Kiev88 related Qs

from: [email protected] (Sam Sherman) 8-8-99

I own an earlier version of the 250MM f3.5 lens in mount for Kiev 60. It is a sharp and excellently made lens.

I had the opportunity to use and test several of the 250MM f5.6 lenses and they are extremely compact and take sharp photos, but in my opinion no better than the 250MM f3.5 at the same apertures.

However, I must say that the 250MM f5.6 is a piece of sheer junk mechanically. It will not hold up and its mechanical design is atrocious. It has a long internal rod linkage between the stopdown pin and the diaphragm mechanism. This rod gives if the aperture blades stick slightly and there is give in the system which will eventually break.

I would not want to own one if I was given one for free if I promised to use it!.

While the optics are good the barrels and mounts are also sloppily made on the samples I have seen. While the 250MM f3.5 I own is a precision lens with well made barrel and mechanics in addition to optics.

I think the 250MM f5.6 lens should be converted to a preset lens without any internal stop down mechanisms, which would allow it to get even smaller- then it would be a good, compact design.

- Sam Sherman

Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Few Kiev88 related Qs

....

Hi Sam,

My 250 Telear is no poorly made than my 250 Jupiter, and is definitely sharper. As far as the linkage on the Telear being longer, it's not enough longer than the jupiter's to worry about. You must have had extremely bad versions of the Telear. Both of my lenses work just fine.

Regards,

Kevin Kalsbeek

Date: 09 Aug 1999
From: [email protected] (FLEXARET2)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Few Kiev88 related Qs

from: [email protected] (Sam Sherman) 8-9-99

Dear Kevin,

Re the Ukranian 250MM lenses-

The quality control is all over the place. If you have good samples so much the better.

Be aware that all auto lenses can have the diaphragm blades bind due to the vaporizing of the helix lubricant. Then the blades have to be cleaned by a pro who can open the lens. If the blades bind this will transmit a problem to the stop down linkage.

Of course, this may never happen.

At the price these lenses can be good bargains that can take sharp pictures if you have good samples.

I will stand by my opinion that the 250MM f5.6 has a terrible mechanical design, as does the 45MM wideangle. In contrast, the 150MM and 30MM are well made lenses optically and mechanically.

In the former soviet photographic world, taking an overview of all of the cameras and lenses we are able to see in the West, there is a crazy mix of what is good and what is poor. Most of this makes little sense to us, but in the former world of communism and how things were produced, it certainly makes sense to someone.

- Sam Sherman

Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Pentacon 6 Lenses on a Kiev 88 ?

....

> Unless I read it incorrectly, KievUsa shows ( in their web price list )
> a kiev 60 to kiev 88 lens mount adapter. I think they price it at $175.
> If I'm correct, and at that high a price, they must have to do some
> optical tricks ( negative lenses and such ) to make it work. Wonder how
> that would affect the picture quality?
>
>                             Bill Martin

Hi (again) Bill!

Due to the longer registration distance of the K88 lenses, NO optical element is required, but you DO wind up with a COMPLETELY manual lens. The Identical adapters sell in Europe for $30-50, which is a good clue how K/USA rips you off. While the K88 lenses will adapt to the K60, they do NOT lock to the adapter in the way they are supposed to to (but don't always do!)on the camera body. Kalimex says this adapter is sort of for emergency use only. This doesn't really detract from it's usefulness.

Regards,

Kevin Kalsbeek

Date: 11 Aug 1999
From: [email protected] (FLEXARET2)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Pentacon 6 Lenses on a Kiev 88 ?

Dear Bob,

While I am always trying to get sharp single focal length lenses for certain purposes, I am not beyond experimenting with making lens converters or chaining together as many as will still cast an image.

I remember getting up to 3000MM plus and 4000MM plus.

I once shot a great photo of the setting sun with a plane horizontally disecting the large orange orb. It was so stopped down that eye damage was avoided.

I have also converted a Minolta 2x converter to 39MM screw front mount that would take Kilar lenses and magnify their images.

One of the best 2x converters I have used is the Vivitar Matched multiplier for some special lens or other, which I don't have. It works just fine with many other lenses.

One interesting converter was made by Tamron (Tasei?) as part of the lens formula. This is the Spectra Duo-focus which is 140MM f4.5 or 230MM f7.9. It is a very tiny lens for its focal length and I have taken extremely sharp photos of the buttes at California's Red Rock Canyon with it. I just added a Minota converter to its Exakta mount and used stop down metering and off I went. This is my favorite small traveling lens.

- Sam Sherman

Date: Sat, 22 May 1999
From: tintype_NO_@_SPAM_megsinet.com (Peter Mikalajunas)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Pentacon/Exacta/Kiev 60 to Pentax 6x7 adaptors

KLIN [email protected] wrote:

>Does such an item exist? Are there any cameras that will accept my
>pentacon six lenses?

Oh yes! The lenses are directly interchangable with the Kiev 60 and the Exacta.

There is also an adapter made that will allow you to use your existing lenses on a Mamiya 645. Brooklyn Camera usually has the adapters in stock. They also occasionally appear on eBay.

I picked up a Zeiss 180mm Sonnar for a song (compared to the same lens in a Hasselblad mount) and use it with an adapter on a Mamiya 645.

Peter Mikalajunas

[Ed.note: from our Lens adapter FAQ]
rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
From: [email protected] (Mike G)
[1] Kiev or Pentacon lenses on Mamiya 645
Date: Fri Mar 27 09:09:41 CST 1998

Kiev or Pentacon lenses on Mamiya 645 how to do it, where to get the gear.

A little while ago I posteed a message to this group requesting information on this topic. A few of you emailed me to let you know what I found out, so here is the info !

It is possible to get an adaptor to fit these lenses on to Mamiya 645's, any model. It retains infinity focus, but not automatic diaphram control. Any Kiev 60, Pentacon 6 or Exacta 66 lens can be mounted, opening up the possibility of using some very nice Zeiss, Schneider or Rissian lenses on these cameras.

The adaptors can be obtained in the States from:

Brooklyn Camera Exchange - [email protected] for $159 or Kiev USA - [email protected] for $145 These adaptors are probably German in origin.

In the UK and Europe you can get then from:

SRB Film Service - [email protected] for #99.95. These are hand made to order.

Lenses are pretty widley available, but some very cheap Soviet optics are available in the U.K. at present. For example the 30mm f3.5 fish eye is on sale for #145 ($240)

Try these places if you are interested, all in the UK, sorry no email for them.

Global Cameras Int +44 181-427-7492 SRS Trading +44 1923-226602 Chiswick Camera Centre +44 181-995-9114

The places are all selling the new production 'Ansnat' lenses at the above price. I hope this is useful to someone.

Mike Ganley

From Contax Mailing List;
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000
From: "Bob Shell" [email protected]
Subject: Re: Hassy/Pentacon fish eyes WAS:Re: [CONTAX] 350mm/f4 for 645

Glad to hear that Herwig has gotten his adapter ready. I'm sure he will find it a very popular item. If I get a Contax 645 this would be first on my list so I could use my collection of CZJ lenses.

You may just be surprised if you compare the 30mm Zodiak (now sold as Arsat) to the Hasselblad lens. We've compared them at Shutterbug and there is damned little difference other than that the Arsats show typically lax Ukrainian quality control. Get a good one and no one could distinguish the photos from ones taken with the Zeiss.

One point, though. These lenses were both designed for 6 X 6 format, so won't be 180 degree fisheyes on 645 format.

Bob

From Contax Mailing List;
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000
From: "Bob Shell" [email protected]
Subject: Re: Hassy/Pentacon fish eyes WAS:Re: [CONTAX] 350mm/f4 for 645

- ----------

>From: John Coan [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: Hassy/Pentacon fish eyes WAS:Re: [CONTAX] 350mm/f4 for 645
>Date: Thu, Apr 13, 2000, 11:48 AM
>
> Not only that, but you only need one adaptor for multiple Pentacon lenses.
> So, I'l be able to use the $350 CZJ Sonnar 180/2.8 I have vs buying the
> Contax 140/2.8 for $2000.  I intend to get a Flektogon 50 as well.

You will like the 50 Flektagon. I've shot magazine covers with mine. It is super sharp. Better than the original 50 Distagon for Hasselblad.

> And one other thing that occured to me a few weeks ago.... See if this is
> workable.  How about using the cheap Pentacon extension tubes and bellows
> once you have the adaptor?  You are still using the Contax body's TTL
> metering system so you won't have to fool around with compensation factors.
> Seems like it would work just fine in theory.

I'm using my CZJ lenses on Mamiya 646 Pro and did exactly that. I got the Kiev extension tube set (something like forty bucks) and put the tube between the lens and the adapter. Works just fine. I have not seen a bellows from Kiev, though, and have not seen a Pentacon one for years. I had one ages ago and don't recall just what became of it. Wish I still had it.

The short extension tube is great with the CZJ 180 and 300 which don't focus as close as I would like.

Bob

Date: 23 May 1999
From: [email protected] (FLEXARET2)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Kiev 60/88 side by side lens tests.....

I saved your comparison chart, it was very interesting. I have been using/experimenting with former-Soviet/Ukranian/Russian cameras for many years now.

My results - the optics are very good to excellent. The K-60 and K-88 Lenses are the same with different mounts. All of these products suffer from poor quality control and it is possible to get a poor one or an excellent one, everything must be thoroughly tested. The 45MM wideangle suffers from a poor auto stop down mechanism, capable of failure at any time and hard to improve even though the optics are good. The 250MM f5.6 compact tele is okay optically but the entire barrel system is sloppy on many I have seen/used. The auto stop down mechanism is a nightmare! The heavy 250MM f3.5 tele is excellent optically and mechanically far better than the f5.6 style, which is small and compact, while the other is heavy but better built.

The 30MM wideangle is a Superb lens optically and well built mechanically. The 120MM and the 150MM lenses are optically and mechanically tops.

I would say that these lenses in excellent samples can equal or surpass other similar lenses of any manufacture, but good samples are the key words.

I have found the K88 cameras to suffer from too much wind stress with the metal shutter curtains.

I have seen that an old idea of mine- cloth curtains have now become a reality. The K88 as the models evolved went from steel to brass gears in the slow speed mechanism, which had far less chance of jamming up the camera. The earlier models had a hill and dale wind knob the later model have a notched wind knob, which indicates the improved brass gear models.

I have had much success with the K60 cameras, which are sturdy have a solid wind mechanism and should work well for many years. The mount is not exactly the same as the Pentacon 6/ Praktisix mount and not all lenses and accessories will work on K60 and Pentacon cameras.

I did a lens comparision between good to better samples of the 80MM Mulitcoated Carl Zeiss Jena f2.8 Biometar and the 80MM Volna. While the Volna was a good lens and I have done excellent work with it, the Biometer had the edge on sharpness by 15% to 20% at least. Again, remember that is the samples I tested. There can be better or worse samples.

Something else little known - The Soviet lenses with copper diaphragm blades, the K88 with brass colored shutter curtains, have these items coated with an anti-reflection coating - they do not caused glare or are supposed to not cause it. The 90MM normal lens for the K6C (earlier version of K60) is a superb sharp optic that focuses close, looks uncoated, but is in reality sharp and almost flare free.

In the 1980s there was an importer in KC of the K88 cameras, Anthony's Cameras, who claimed the Russian lenses to be of superb high contract and sharper than similar Zeiss and Japanese designs. He did all kinds of tests and sold huge blowup photos made with the K88 and those lenses.

- Sam Sherman

Date: Sun, 23 May 99
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: addendum to: Kiev 60/88 (add Zorki) side-by-side lens tests....

Spencer Childs has been gracious enough to grant his permision to post the following letter that he sent to me via e-mail.

He has helped to fill in some of many blanks regarding Zorki lenses compared to Western equivalent optics.

I also was surprised on the observations about the 50mm F4.0 Zeiss Jena for the Pentacon/Kiev 60....If this is the Flektagon, I had always heard good things about this lens, but wide-open performance was not mentioned (as I recall) and again, this could have been third-(or more)hand info.

I hope more folks come forward who have actually done this type of 1st hand comparisons on Kiev's and Zorki's.

Quite interesting:

"Hi I thought your article very interesting but have never had the money to get any lenses other than the Zeiss Jena lenses for the Pentacon 6. I have the 50mm f4, the 80mm f2.8, the 120mm f2.8 and the 180mm f2.8. They are all in the late (1985 ish) multicoated versions. I think that they are all quite exceptional lenses but can't comment on them with reference to more expensive models. The only one that is slightly imperfect is the 50mm wide angle whic is very soft in the corners at full aperture (I've had two samples and they both were). But, a couple of stops down and it is amazing!

I have also been playing with the range of lenses on a Zorki 35mm camera. They are QUITE EXCEPTIONAL too.Compared to my contax G lenses, they have a very similar resolution but the contrast is much less. Using the old fashioned "back to the sun" rule though and it is very hard to see the difference!! Sure knocks the hell out of any Nikon wide angle lenses assuming favourable lighting for the Zorki of course. The 85mm f2 is quite brilliant and the 50mm f2 likewise. I get most of my trouble with flair when I use the 35mm f2,8 but the underlying optics of that one is fantastic. I imagine with a flash indoors it would equal anything. Quite amazing since the one I have was made in 1951 to a Zeiss design.

I'm familiar with the prejudice you are experiencing but (in the case of the Zorki) I guess flare and lower contrast is an issue which can't be ignored. I wish I could have all these old lenses multi-coated - then we would see :)

I have a Nikon 20mm f2.8 AF lens. It is very good but the aberrations near the corners and even the edges lead me to compare it with the Zorki. The Nikkor has beautiful contrast though.

The Contax G seems to top them all Zeiss designed lenses (like the Zorki) but with fantastic coating.

Anyway, my Pentacon 6 crop of lenses are all multicoated and are great but I don't know how they would compare with a Blad so I guess that is why I found your article very interesting though not completely relevant to my kit."

all best

Spencer

Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000
From: John Coan [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.marketplace.medium-format
Subject: Re: WTB Lens for Kiev 60 Penatcon 6

I'm not selling mine, but..... I recommend the Carl Zeiss Jena Sonnar 180/2.8. You can get a nice multicoated version for $350 or so. Hint, if it has chrome/silver focus and aperture rings it isn't MC. The single coated version isn't bad, but the MC version is an outstanding optic. It should say either "Carl Zeiss Jena DDR" or "aus Jena" with an "MC" on the filter ring. It comes with a tripod ring, and was sold with a round leather case, shade, and caps. Rumor has it that those with 4 or 5 digit serial numbers were the last production models made. But I don't know why they are any better than the MC versions with a 7 or 8 digit number. Hint: this lens doesn't focus quite close enough for a frame filling head shot. Extension rings are plentiful and cheap.

The Flektogon 50/4 is also outstanding in its MC version. It was not sold originally with a shade, but did come with case and caps. Same deal with the serial numbers and legend on the lens. MC models generally sell for a little less than the Sonnar.

Try ebay, or http://home.earthlink.net/~rreinke/card.htm

Mark Blackwell wrote:

> Looking for a longer lens (only have the 80mm) for the Kiev 60 I just
> bought.   Also might consider a wide angle but don't need a fisheye. Would
> prefer Zeiss but would consider other brands.  Email with what you have an
> how much.   Thanks Mark

Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000
From: John Coan [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Kiev quality...

Darin,

I'm not a professional but I'll tell you what I did in this regard. I have the Contax 645 system. I bought an adaptor from Zoerkendoerfer in Munich for $200 that allows mounting of the Pentacon Six lenses on the 645. The only new lens I use with the 645 is the 80/2.0 it came with. I use three other lenses (Carl Zeiss Jena 180/2.8, CZJ 50/4.0, and Kiev 30/3.5) with the adaptor. In the case of the fisheye, the price is $180 brand new vs $6000 for the CZ fisheye. If I were a pro perhaps I could justify the difference in cost. But for me, all these other lenses work just fine with excellent results. On my particular camera, the focus confirmation indicator still works, as does average and spot metering, and aperture priority automation. I focus wide open then stop down for the exposure, so the viewfinder image is a little dimmer. Other than that, not much of an inconvenience at all.

John

Darin wrote:

> I'm a wedding photographer and two weeks ago I used a borowed 30mm fish
> eye lense (Hasellblad) to shoot  some of the  wedding highlights. The
> result was very good, so I decided to do  some research regarding these
> lenses. To spend $6000 for  a lense, is out of the question, so I wonder
> if a Kiev setting, (88 or 60) with a fish eye lense will  do the
> trick...I'm planning to still use my Hass. for the  shooting, I think to
> use the Kiev  just for few   shots. Ex:  back of the church, available
> light,  bride and groom exiting the church,  candids  on the dancing
> floor. Can somebody help me  put more light into this picture?  Thanks!

From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000
Subject: Re: Kiev Cameras

My Arsat 30mm fisheye lens was just delivered yesterday. =)

The finish is quite nice and the focusing is smooth. Again, there's some dust between the elements, but I figure that it shouldn't compromise the image quality much, if at all. (I still remember how nice and sharp my old 4x5 Kodak Ektar lens was despite having two air bubbles within the glass itself)

It does make the camera pretty front heavy -- that is one MAJOR front lens element! But I'm looking forward to having some fun with it this weekend. I haven't felt this excited about going out and taking pictures in years!

From: "John Doe" [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000
Subject: Re: Kiev Cameras

Get a good used Mamiya 645 and a Pentacon adapter $45. You get the modern reliable Japanese mechanics with the option to use good cheap inexpensive Russian and German Optics.

Went that route after giving up on the K88, the Pentacon Six (winder problems and others), Kiev 60 very cheap inexpensive but requires some significant fine tuning to get spacing, shutter speeds, metering but 200-250 for new, or 110 used. Russ Hippert's manual or service to fine tune is probably recommended.

....

Date: Thu, 26 May 1994
From: Robert Svensson [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: MF systems

Hi there!

At first I want to tell you how I found your page: I used YAHOO! and just typed in KOWA since I was curious about the system. Not far down the list of hits I found you.

Your "lens envy" homepage is large, why I have not totally made it yet. I find it very intreresting and there are a lot of sense in there.

However, I saw some discussions about MF systems. First: I agree that 80% or more I use the 80 mm "normal" lens. I use two systems. An old Hassy system, one 500C and one 500 ELM. I also use KIEV and here I have one ZODIAK 30 mm fisheye. This lens I purchased for USD400. The Hassy 30 mm ZEISS costs approx. USD 8,000. Probably the Hassy have outstanding properties, especially on full opening. Stepped down the ZODIAK is excellent.

I have used it for some commercial works where the customers "discovered" that they got a somewhat different results with me and my ZODIAK compared to most other pics they have seen in catalogs, brochures etc. I also use it for crazy dog photography. Still, most pics are shot with the 80 mm.

My point is that in a MF discussion the KIEV systems should be mentioned since it is impossible to get so much pic quality for so little bucks. The optical quality is very good, but the mechanical quality of the K88 is somewhat unreliable. The K60 is better.

I have a lot of pics on my domain:

http://www.photography-art.nu

Technical data are given. There is also a link to my official univ. page. I appreciate comments and critics on my site.

All the best,
Robert

---------------------------------------
Dr. Robert Svensson
Assoc. Prof.
Chalmers Lindholmen
Univ. College, Goteborg,
Sweden
http://www.chl.chalmers.se/~term
---------------------------------------

From Kiev 88 Mailing List:
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000
From: "jan de Monchy" [email protected]
Subject: Re: Kiev Lenses or Pentacon Lenses? This is the question!

This subject is discussed intensively in the 'Kiev Report' the delpi forum on Russian/Ukrainian camera's $ lenses!!

http://forums.delphi.com/kievreport/messages/

>From: "Titus" [email protected] >Reply-To: [email protected] >To: [email protected] >Subject: [Kiev88] Kiev Lenses or Pentacon Lenses? This is the question! >Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 22:11:03 -0400

...

From Kiev88 Mailing List;
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000
From: "bdmphoto" [email protected]
Subject: Re: Old CCCP vs Ukrainian lenses

Hello Guy
this is Mike Fourman
from Kiev Camera.

During 80tees all lenses were made:

Arsenal: 80mm, 250mm, 30mm

Uman 45mm, 150mm, 120mm

300mm tair was made somewhere in Russia.

Right now ( late 1999 and up)

Arsenal makes:
30mm, 80mm, 250mm,shift and tilt :55mm, 65mm

They will make:

600mm mirror late January

new design 45mm late June ????

150mm late March ????

Everything else right now is made by " independed contractors" who is stealing part from bankrupt Uman factory.

Please be very careful when you buying "brand new" 45mm lens and 150mm lens .

I will recommend to buy them from:

Kalimex

Russian Plaza

Kiev USA

and .. Kiev Camera.

at least they have been tested and checked and tested

I hope it will clear the issue

Regards
Mike

...

[Ed. note: some compliments to Kevin for his tips...]
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000
From: Sergio Ramirez [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: Kiev cameras, Kiev lenses and Mamiya 645 lenses

Hi Robert:

First, I wanted to thank you for maintaining your excellent medium format pages. I have used many times to find information about my hobby (medium format).

Until now, I had nothing to contribute, but now I believe I should share the following two experiences with your readers.

The first, is related to the kiev 88 film magazine loading. I have always complained about the uneven spacing in the magazines. Some of the magazines I owned separated the frames too much which led getting only eleven photos on a 120 roll of film. Other magazines had the opposite problem (two little spacing) which led to loosing shoots because of frame overlap. That situation stayed until one day I read the article by Kevin Kalsbeek at your site on how to properly load the kiev 88 magazines.

http://www.smu.edu/~rmonagha/mf/kiev88back.html

Since then, I haven't had a problem at all with any of the magazines I own. In fact the magazine is so precise that I consistently get thirteen exposures per 120 film. Later I read more carefully the manual provided by the Arsenal Factory and I found out that the instructions there are also clear, I guess many people which complain about the Kiev 88 magazine have the same problem that I had, essentially that we do not follow instructions.

On the dissapointing side, I did send two of my magazines (I own four) to Kiev USA for "fixing" and they charged me $100.00 for probably doing nothing to the magazines since I believe they were in working order. Given that experience,and a couple of other bad experiences with them, I wouldn't recomend dealing with Kiev USA to your readers.

The second experience is with the Kiev 88 lenses, I recently did a series of photos with my Kiev 88 camera with a 80mm Arsat lens, and I also shot the same scenes with a Mamiya 645 camera with a 80mm f2.8N lens, the same day, the same film, under the same lighting and exposure conditions. To my surprise, the corner resolution of the Kiev lens is far better than the Mamiya lens and the center resolution is the same or the difference is unnoticeable under a 10x magnification loupe. In one scene, there is a structure which has very fine lines which you can really distinguish in the photo taken by the Kiev lens but not in the photo taken with the Mamiya lens (it seems like the Mamiya lens has some astigmatism).

I went and checked the results that Popular photography had published about both lenses, and in their tests Pop Photo reports better center resolution of the Mamiya lens but comparable edge resolution for the Arsat lens. What struck me is the interpretation of the results, at some apertures the corner resolution for the Kiev lens is better than the Mamiya lens however the Kiev lens result is reported as good while the Mamiya is reported as excellent. This made me conclude that Pop Photo and probably other magazines tend to report more optimistically and be more enthusiastic about products which have high advertising budgets (such as Mamiya) while other companies, which might provide good products but have not big pockets are judged very harshly. I guess from now on, I will read these test reports very carefully and, most important, arrive to my own conclusions.

I wish there was a web site where the modulation transfer functions for each available lens were available in graphic form as well as raw data so that one could make a comparative plot between various lenses. I wish I could do it with the lenses I own or I have access to but unfortunately I neither know how to perform these tests (I know how to interpret results but that is different) or have the necessary equipment if I knew how to.

Ok, that is all for now. Please keep with the good work. Thanks again and regards

Sergio Ramirez

Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000
From: "M P Brennan" [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: where to upgrade from my broken hasselblad copy?

"David Grabowski" [email protected] wrote

: I don't see the sense in all this when older Mamiya glass is already
: priced fairly reasonably,  just go with all used Mamiya 645 or 1000S
: and save the hastle of the adapter.

David:

I think the Ukrainian glass is quite a bit less expensive. eBay and KEH seem to have the Mamiya 150/3.5 going for about $325 to $395. You can buy a 150/2.8 for $170 from KievCamera.com

I, personally, don't mind having to manually stop down the lens, especially to get such a fast piece of glass for so little money. A Kiev 80mm/2.8 is only $50.

Plus, my 30mm fisheye lens was only $190. Incredible by any standard.

And Mikail Fourman (KievCamera.com) told me that he is fairly sure that lenses will be forthcoming, from Kiev, that will mount directly to the 645 and automatically stop down. He's hoping they'll be available in about 4 months.

My primary kit consists of two Hasselblads. My Mamiyas are for carrying to the beach or throwing in my luggage for a trip. I wanted minimal investment and worry while getting maximum performance. This route really seemed to work for me.

-Mike

From Kiev88 Mailing LIst:
Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000
From: "Franka T LIEU" [email protected]
Subject: Re: removing and mounting the lens on Kiev88CM

I've seen 2 kind of P-6 Mount Kiev-88 Body. The procedure are follow

A. the type with a rotating collar Breech Lock. You would see a small handle sticking out on the front of the lens mount flange around the 12 O' Clock to 2 O'Clock position. The lens is locked by this collar. To remove, firmly rotate the handle to 12'o Clock position, and lift the lens out straight. To put in a lens. Align the P-6 Index Pin with the small notch on the mount at the 12'o Clock position. Place lens , and rotate the collar to the close position ( around 1 or 2'o clock )

B. the type with a fixed flange, and a lens release button on the front of the camera. This one easy. like 35mm, push button and rotate lens counter clockwise to release. to put lens on, Align index dot with red index mark or index notch on flange, rotate to lock

> Really a dumb question but here it is: I have just acquired a Kiev 88CM. My
> first step to medium format (it came with a spot TTL prism btw). My question
> is how do I remove and mount the lens? It is the pentacon mount and I don't
> want to force it fearing I might cause harm. The manual is Russian so it was
> not much help. I appreciate any help.
>
> best regards,
> Erdem

[Ed. note: the DOF lever on the older pentacon lenses may block the mounting on newer Kiev bodies (-88..); a fix is..]
From Kiev 88 Mailing LIst:
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001
From: Eef sluiter [email protected]
Subject: Re: Kiev88CM

Hi Gary,

What you can do is removing the depth of field switch on the site of the lens. Remove the mount of the lens and remove that little thingy. complete with the little spring. and it works fine.

I have the same supplier as you and mine was delivered last monday.

Greetings from Amsterdam

Eef Sluiter

--- Gary Kieffer [email protected] wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> Just received my Kiev88CM from Paval (Usatas). Seems
> to be okay. Looks far
> better than my old one. However I too am having
> problems mounting a good
> number of my Pentacon lenses. Can anyone tell me how
> I can remove the step
> down levers on my lenses, or modify the mount to
> make these things work
> easier?
>
> Also, there is no way that my 500 f/5.6 Meyer will
> work. The handle on the
> mount hits the back ot the lens. Any help there
> would be greatly appreciated.
> Looks like I will have to continue using my Kiev 60
> for the longer glass.
> Gary

From Kiev88 Mailing List;
Date: 19 Jan 01
From: Gary Kieffer [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Re: [Re: Kiev88CM]]

Kelvin,

The MLU had a problem with the mirror as it hit older Biometer 80mm lens, also the stop down levers on some of the Pentacon lenses rubbed against the mount. Roskam Optics cut a small notch in the body to accomodate the lever.

However, now with the 88CM I have just started to remove the levers from the lenses. Did so on my Flektagon 50mm. Works just fine thak you. It seems aas though I'm not the only one having problems with some lenses though.

I have read other notes from folks in Kiev groups with similar problems. Major ones seem to be the large bodied 150, 180, 300, and 500mm lenses. I have the 150 and 500 and there is no way they will mount on either of my 88s.

The 65 I have doesnt work either. But actually I'm going to be selling that lens soon anyway, as I hardly ever use it. Also my older Biometer will go on the auction block as well, as I am expecting a newer Exakta 80mm soon.

Thanks for your interest. Anyone else have an idea of what to do to make the lenses fit?

Gary

From: [email protected] (FLEXARET2)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Date: 14 Feb 2001
Subject: Re: Pentacon 6 vs Pentax 67

While I have stated in this thread that the Pentax 67 System is better than the Pentacon 6 System, I generally meant the camera is better.

I have used Carl Zeiss Jena lenses for years and for their era, they are generally excellent.

That is both in lenses for 35MM cameras and 6x6 reflexes. I have not heard of bad quality control on these lenses as exists with former Soviet cameras.

A adapted a preset 180MM Carl Zeiss Jena f2.8 Sonnar to Bronica S2A and the quality from that lens is excellent. In 35MM lenses I have found the 135MM Sonnar and 35MM Flektagon and 50MM Pancolar to also be top lenses. Many pro photographers have used Zeiss Jena lenses for years with top results, including Life Magazine.

As for Pentacon 6, with careful handling I have gotten excellent results and particularly like the 80MM f2.8 Biometar (Multi-coated) and 120MM Biometar for portraits.

From: [email protected] (FLEXARET2)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Date: 15 Feb 2001
Subject: Re: CZJ - good, bad, or that's Life? ;-) Re: Pentacon 6 vs Pentax67

It is not to say that their aluminum mounts and focusing lubrication did not leave something to be desired. Or that they did not grade lenses as to prime quality and lesser quality. The poorer quality products being sold or traded off more cheaply, where they were less liable to be evaluated. In the early 1950s certain East German cameras with Carl Zeiss Jena first quality lenses were sold by their official importer (Ercona) for list prices of $250 to $475. The same cameras of lesser quality with Carl Zeiss Jena lenses of lesser quality were sold in the US by Sterling Howard, brand-new, for half of their official prices. The Primar-Reflex II became the Astraflex II, the Contax S became the Astra 35, or Hexacon as sold by Peerless Camera Stores - not first quality goods.

However, in the late 1940s and through the late 1950s, these were lenses of choice for many cameras. The post war Contax IIA and IIIA cameras while made in the Western Zone of Germany, were sold in many cases originally with some Carl Zeiss Jena lenses - especially focal lengths not made for the new Contaxes.

Really inferior lenses from Germany of the same period include - Ludwig Victar, Schneider Radionar, Ludwig Meritar and others from Meyer Optik.

The Zeiss Jena optics were the quality optics of that time and many are still excellent. Both British and US photo magazines ran tests on Carl Zeiss Jena lenses and gave many of them high ratings.

However, form follows function and the product fits the use. Even an awful Ludwig Victar lens in Exakta mount can be adapted to Minolta XE-7 and be used for the quality of its soft images and not the razor sharp images of better lenses.

Further - nobody is under any obligation to use these lenses as the great bargains they can be or otherwise. One can buy what he wants and use what he wants and not disparage another person's choices.

From: [email protected] (FLEXARET2)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Date: 15 Feb 2001
Subject: Re: Pentacon 6 vs Pentax 67

A fair question as to where I learned about Zeiss Jena lenses being used by Life Magazine.

Answer-

1) Popular Photography had an article on the camera department of Life Magazine and it showed them using Praktina cameras with Carl Zeiss Jena lenses.

2) Ralph Fuerbringer who is famous for adapting wide vision large format cameras. He worked in the camera department of Life Magazine and told me they were one of the first to adapt the 180MM Carl Zeiss Jena f2.8 Sonnar to the Hasselblad 1000F

3) Ylla a famous wild animal photographer whose work was published in Life and other national magazines was covered in Popular Photography and showed her kit of Primarflex II cameras with Carl Zeiss Jena lenses being taken to Africa.

4) Life Magazine photographers and others used Contax II cameras with Carl Zeiss Jena lenses.

5) SHOOTING STARS - interesting 1998 book showing celebrities taking photos - showed Tony Curtis taking some excellent photos with Contax II with Carl Zeiss Jena lenses.

6) The first post World War II (as well as most of the prewar) Rolleiflex cameras - which developed the great following for Medium Format photography (pre great Japanese optics and pre Hasselblad) all had Carl Zeiss Jena lenses.

this goes on and on........

rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
From: [email protected] (FLEXARET2)
Date: Mon Mar 12 23:36:15 CST 2001
[1] Re: KIEV 88 Lens

The Ukranian derivative of the 120MM f2.8 Zeiss Jena Biometer is a fine portrait lens.

Want a cheaper bargain-

Look up the 90MM f2.8 normal lens for the Kiev 88 Predecessor known as Salyut. This is close focusing and at wider apertures is excellent for portraits and nobody wants these lenses - many of the earlier cameras were upgraded with the later 80MM lens.

From Kiev88 Mailing List:
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001
From: [email protected]
Subject: Kiev 88CM users- Good News

There have been problems using the Zeiss Jena lenses in Pentacon 6 mount on Kiev 88CM cameras. At least I have had these problems, and some others have also had them.

There are various lenses and extension tubes in Pentacon 6/Kiev 60 mount which will not fit into or lock onto the Kiev 88CM. My 80MM f2.8 Biometar (later MC model) has a stopdown lever which intrudes into the camera mount and will not allow it to close. Longer focus lenses have these stopdown levers far in front of the camera mount.

My 120MM f2.8 Biometar (late 60s type) and 180MM f2.8 Sonnar (early 70s type) have stopdown pins which are havily spring loaded and push into the camera stopdown button and from this push the mirror out of proper alignment.

Both lenses have adjustments inside to shorten the length of this stopdown pin. Doing that has apparently worked to make these lenses compatible with the Kiev 88CM and the lenses will still work on Pentacon 6 and Kiev 60.

All of this means that most Kiev 88CM users might want a good camera technician to align their Zeiss Jena (P6) lenses to their Kiev 88CM cameras. It is best not to touch the camera stopdown pin and extend it with washers. It might also be worthwhile to have him double check his new lens adjustment to see if the lenses will still work properly on Pentacon 6 and Kiev 60 if the user also owns those cameras. I advise not changing the stopdown adjustments in the Pentacon 6 and Kiev 60, if those cameras have been working fine all along up to now. If one does not own those cameras, just have the lenses adjusted to work on the Kiev 88CM - that is all.

- Sam Sherman

From: [email protected] (Hartmut Krafft)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Date: 8 May 2001
Subject: Re: experience on The Arsat 3,5/30 fishey

"Klaus" [email protected] wrote:

> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

You'd better turn this (and the below HTML stuff) off...

> I wonder, if I should buy the russian Arsat 3.5/30mm fishey lens for my Mamiya 645. Does
> someone have experiences with this lens?

I've got one for some years no (in Kiev 88 mount, can't tell about Mamiya adaptation). The optics are _very_ good in my lens, but as always with Ukrainian products, this may vary a lot, so I'd recommend to either buy at a source where you may test for one or two weeks or (like I did) buy that cheap that it won't matter much (got mine for about 75USD on a flea market). It's sharp, contrasty, and shows little flare even with the sun in the picture.

If you get yourself some Widelux panorama 7x7 frames, you can cut appropriate chromes made with this lens and have panorama photos without panorama hardware, too.

Disadvantage is the weight and size of this lens: as you tend to carry it around rarely, and the motives matching that kind of lens are not that common either, you'll probably end up taking not very many photos with it. But if you happen to have it with you at the right time and place, great photos can be made with it.

[cut a lot of HTML garbledygook :-( ]

Regards

Hartmut

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