Varioflex II Shift Lens Adapter Illustrates Our Approach
Special thanks to PCE for this photo!
Pittsburgh Camera Exchange

Related Postings:
Zoerk Adapter - Mamiya 50mm to Hasselblad Shift Lens Adapter
Shift Lens Related Postings
Zoerkendorfer Medium Format Mount Converters Pages
Zoerkendorfer Pro Shift Lens Brochure (pdf file) [2/2002]
Arsenal 35mm f2.8 Tilt/shift Lens 11mm decentering, +/- 8 degree tilts! ($450 US ppd. Nikon...)
Horseman superwide 6x12 with 15mm horiz and 20mm vert shifts
Hasselblad and Mamiya RB/RZ67 View Camera Converter (mfg by Horseman)
Horseman SW612
Dr. Gilde's Multiformat panoramic tilt/shift Cameras
WJM's Tilt/Shift Lens List
WJM's notes on shifting and tilting lenses, math...
Arsenal 35mm f/2.8 Tilt/Shift Lenses
(+/- 8 deg; 11mm - $399 US, Nik/Can/M42/Pen-K/Min/Contax/Leica)
Homebrew Nikon 28mm PC shift lens How-to
Shift Camera Pro ST...
Nikkor 85mm PC shift/tilt lens (Bjorn Rorslett)
Panfield 4x5" Camera (radical shifts, long lenses) [9/2000]
Perspective Correction Using Photoshop [10/2000]
Using Perspective Control Lens by Matthew Cole [1/2001]
Minolta 35mm f/2.8 Shift Lens Manual [4/2001]
B"orn Rorslett's Nikon 28mm PC to Tilt/Shift Lens Conversion (thanks to Lars Hansen for URL!) [7/2001]
Correcting Distortion and Color Fringing by Brian Caldwell [8/2002]

Here is the simplest and cheapest ($5 US) way to achieve a wide angle shift lens capability with infinity focusing in medium format photography using - you guessed it - our classic Bronicas.

Why a Shift Lens?

A shift lens is very simple in concept. You simply raise (or lower) the shift lens relative to the center of your camera's lens mount to achieve desired perspective controls.

On a view camera, you can just raise or shift the lens upward or downward on its lens board to achieve these effects. But in medium format and 35mm, we need a shift lens or shift adapter for our lenses. If you could just shift a medium format wide angle lens up or down, you could also enjoy perspective control over converging verticals and other tricks.

These vertical shifts are great for controlling converging lines in architectural photography. While we rarely adjust for horizontal convergence, horizontal shifts are also useful for panoramic photography. You take two photos at either end of the horizontal shift range and cut and merge the prints together to get a panoramic print. Take a look at a view camera handbook showing the perspective control effects. You will quickly appreciate the benefits of such a seemingly minor capability!

How to Make a PC Shift Lens for Under Five Bucks..

First, this is a great idea, but it isn't my idea. Credit belongs to R.I.T.'s Andrew Davidhazy, who described his concept in a Modern Photography article entitled How to do the Impossible - How to Make a Perspective Correction (PC) Lens for Under Five Bucks (Lens Not Included) (p. 89, April 1982).

Second, Bronica wide angle lenses are ideal candidates for shift lenses. These lenses were designed to be used on the Bronica Bellows Unit(s) with a variety of tilts and shifts for closeup or macrophotography use. So extra coverage is there for an infinity-setting shift lens user too. And don't forget that Bronica did experiment with a 6x8cm prototype Bronica too. So you can be pretty sure that your standard Bronica wide angle lenses will have considerable reserve coverage needed in a shift lens. But you don't need much extra coverage. On 35mm cameras, only 7mm of shift is typically needed for most architectural corrections, and the Nikkor PC 35mm lens only offers 11mm of shift range.

Moreover, coverage of lenses increases considerably (e.g., 30%) as you stop down from wide open settings. So a lens that looks like it has poor coverage in the viewfinder when you are focusing wide open may do just fine when stopped down to a more typical f/8, f/11, or f/16 taking aperture.

Third, Bronicas are unique among medium format cameras because they have a removable helical lens mount. Now this removable helical mount was designed to enable mounting huge and long Nikkor telephoto lenses and the Bronica tilt/shift bellows while maintaining infinity focus capability. Thanks to this unique Bronica removable helical mounting, nearly every Bronica lens can be mounted in the tilt/shift bellows and used as a closeup or macro-lens, as well as in regular use with infinity focus.

So why not just use the Bronica tilt/shift bellows with the usual lenses at infinity? Unfortunately, at the infinity setting closest to the camera body, the amount of tilt/shift available is very small and less useful than we usually need. We need a shift setup that is more compact than the tilt/shift bellows, with its folds and controls limiting our shifting range.

But this removable focusing mount design makes it ridiculously simple to build a simple and cheap shift adapter for your Bronica lenses that preserves infinity focus! When you remove the lens helical focusing mount, you gain about 8mm of working space in which to build a shift lens adapter. So you can retain infinity focus with your native Bronica lenses.

All you need is a shift adapter that lets you shift your Bronica lenses up and down within the large body throat after removing the lens helical focusing mount. If your shift adapter is less than circa 8mm deep - the depth the helical lens focusing mount normally occupies - you will retain infinity focusing too!

Usually we raise the shift lens vertically to enable control of converging vertical lines in tall buildings. Fortunately, our $5 Bronica shift lens adapter provides us with maximum shift capabilities in just the desired vertical direction to maximize this shift control range. Range of movement varies with each lens and your adapter but runs 12mm vertical upward shift, and circa 7mm downward with the 50mm wide angle lens. Downward motion is less due to the mirror getting in the way.

Test out the basic idea for yourself. Remove your Bronica wide angle lens (or normal lens) from the helical lens mount. Now depress the release button and remove the helical focusing mount itself. Carefully hold the wide angle lens roughly centered in the body opening. Be careful not to push against the mirror, but hold the lens 5 to 8 millimeters from the body. The lens will be back at its infinity focusing point, just as if it were mounted on the 8mm or so thick lens helical focusing mount. You will notice that you can now move your lens up and down in the larger helical mount opening (circa 12 mm vertically upward, less downward due to falling mirror).

Congratulations! You have just tested your own Bronica wide angle lens for use in a lens shift adapter with infinity focusing capabilities. Simple, huh?

All you need to do now is build a permanent and light-proof holder and enjoy your new shift lens.

Thanks to the removed helical mount, you have circa 8mm working space to fabricate your shift mount adapter while still preserving infinity focus.

Let's look at Mr. Davidhazy's 35mm approach first, then adapt it for Bronicas:

35mm Version Design Ideas

Mr. Davidhazy's adapter uses a 35mm camera, 35mm lens, and body cap design. A vertical (or horizontal) groove big enough to hold and shift around the rear of the lens is cut in the 35mm body cap.

The 35mm lens is mounted on a lens board with a hole in it. You simply slide the lens and lens board up and down in a spacer board epoxied to the 35mm body cap. That's all it takes to build a 35mm shift lens.

The spacer board has two U-shaped channels on either side of it. These channels are made from long and thin spacers on either side of the spacer board. The spacer board is glued onto the grooved body cap. The spacers are chosen to provide enough slack so the lens mount board can slide up and down freely.

The top spacer is extra wide on each side, so as to create an overhang or U-shaped channel. The lens board fits in this channel, and can't fall out. You can only slide the lens board in or out of the spacer board channel from either end of the adapter.

The 35mm body cap and mounting materials is the cost of your total outlay - circa $5 US.

One concept not in Mr. Davidhazy's article is which lenses you can use on 35mm cameras. Examination of W.J. Markerink's Lens Mount Registration Distance Tables will show which lens will work on your 35mm camera. Mr. Davidhazy's original article used a simple thin paper based adapter so as to minimize thickness of his adapter and cost.

For example, any T-mount wide angle lens (usually preset lenses) can be used in a simple shift adapter, if it has the coverage, thanks to their long 55mm lens registration distance. On a Nikon camera (46.5mm lens registration distance), you would have (55-46.5=8.5mm) circa 8 mm of space to build your shift adapter and still preserve infinity focusing too! My Topcon UNI lenses (also 55mm) can be used too.

Unlike commercial 35mm shift lenses, you aren't limited to just 35mm and 28mm focal lengths (or a 24mm Olympus shift lens). Instead, you can use a wide range of focal lengths if they have sufficient extra coverage (and many older lenses do have extra coverage, especially stopped down). You can get T-mount lenses from 18mm ultrawides on up through telephoto focal lengths. You can also use Y-S mount and other interchangeable mount lenses with the mounts removed for extra working room in mounting them.

Incidentally, shift lenses are typically not automatic diaphragm, but rather preset or manually controlled lenses. This feature is usually due to the complexity of coupling a moving element lens design. Our Bronica shift lens adapter also features this non-auto or manual approach. You simply have to stop down before making your exposure manually, using the lens aperture ring. Simple. Yes, it is slower, but shift lenses are used on tripods and slow moving subjects (buildings) so this isn't a big limitation!

                      --------------------
                      | x     camera      |
Spacer Board:         -----| +mount  |-----
Looking Down         
                            |       | <--- body cap
           -----------------|       |-------------------  spacer board
           |                                            |  spacers
           |                                            |
           ----                                      ----  retaining spacers

Lens Board:
Looking Down                  rear
                              ______
                             |      |
             ----------------- lens --------------------
                             |______|                      lens board
                              front


Assembled Shift Adapter:     -camera-

                             |       | <--- body cap
           ------------------|       |-------------------  spacer board
           |                   ______                    |
           |                  |      |                   |
           |  ----------------- lens ------------------  |
           |-----             |______|               ----|  lens board

Spacer Board:
Front view

           |=====-------------------------------------====|
           |    |                                     |   |
           |    |          |---------|                |   |
           |    |          |   hole  |                |   |
           |    |          |   thru  |                |   |
           |    |          |   body  |                |   |
           |    |          |   cap   |                |   |
           |    |          |---------|                |   |
           |    |                                     |   |
           |=====-------------------------------------====|
                         front view of spacer board
                    (showing grooves - body cap behind)

Bronica Medium Format Modifications

Obviously, this same concept will work with a medium format Bronica camera too.

The main reason for building a Bronica lens mount adapter is to be able to use the wide angle and normal lenses in a shift lens mount adapter. You can get closer to your subject and still enjoy the benefits of shift lens capabilities. The most popular 35mm camera PC shift lens is a 35mm design, corresponding to a 50mm Bronica lens on 6x6cm format.

But can you live with the circa 100mm long-normal focal length of the folder shift lens designs? If so, then just make a more permanent deluxe version, using some of the tricks described below for inspiration.

You will need a press-fit circular plastic body cap to match the Bronica body mount. A trip to the supermarket or other stores may turn up some likely plastic lids. Remember that many plastics can be deformed after heating (e.g., in very hot water), while retaining their shape once cool again. This approach is best for a press-fit design.

Alternatively, you can also custom grind a PVC end cap in place of the hard to find Bronica helical body cap. Use the helical mount as a size guide. Note the three projecting helical mount lugs. Use a dremel drill to grind your helical body mount adapter to match. Be sure to put an alignment dot (red) in the right spot for alignment when mounting.

A press fit adapter is simpler, since you just slide or press it into place. You can make a press fit adapter by starting with a slightly undersize plastic cap or PVC adapter and add tape around it so it fits snugly. This press fit adapter approach isn't good enough for really heavy lenses. But you are probably not going to be using long or heavy telephotos on a PC shift adapter anyway, right? This approach has the advantage of letting you switch easily between vertical and horizontal shifting modes too. Just carefully twist the press-fit adapter so the lens shifting groove is oriented vertically or horizontally as needed.

Cut a vertical groove in the center of your helical body cap adapter. The lens will go up and down in this groove channel in the finished shift adapter. The groove needs to be wide enough so the lens rear elements can fit into the body and move up and down the groove without binding. The upper and lower heights of the groove will depend on how far your lens can move up and down without hitting the mirror (downward) or body (upwards).

Spray paint the insides of your shift adapter parts flat black (or use flat black enamel paint) to reduce flare.

Using metal, wood, or plastic (e.g., from hobbyist shop supplies), build a spacer board with groove matching the shift lens groove cut in your helical body cap adapter. Epoxy the spacer board to the helical body cap adapter you have made, matching up the two grooves. Let the epoxy harden (or use recessed metal screws and nuts if you build an all-metal spacer board design).

Epoxy some spacers on either end of the spacer board. A retaining channel can be easily built with a slightly wider piece of metal, plastic or wood spacer epoxied on the top of each side of the spacer board. The resulting U-shaped channel needs to be high enough to let the lens board slide freely without being loose.

The lens board is relatively easy too. It is really just a board of the right thickness so that when the lens on the lens board is mounted on the body cap and spacer board, the lens in the shift adapter will be at the infinity focusing point.

The lens board has a centered round hole for the lens elements and light to pass through when mounted on the body cap shift adapter. Stray light can't get past the rest of the lens board into the camera, regardless of position or shift settings. The rear of the lens fills the circular hole in your lens board completely. A circle of black felt around the hole may help reduce any (unlikely) flare off the rear of the lens mount elements.

I am assuming here that you want a vertical perspective control setup to cure convergence of verticals in architectural photography. But you could make an equally effective horizontal perspective control setup with a horizontal groove setup. Such a setup would be most useful for panoramic photographic efforts, merging two images into one final print with minimal distortion. All you need is another $5 homebrew shift adapter, this time with a horizontal groove. Or if your helical body press-fit mount adapter is sufficiently loose, you can just rotate it around horizontally ninety degrees. With luck, you will get both effects for the price of one adapter ($5 US).

How can you improve this lens board setup? Ideally, it would be nice if your Bronica lenses could simply mount normally. Consider using a version of Mike Bond's body-cap mount approach. A Bronica rear lens cap can be used to provide a matching lens mount for your lens. You only need the top section that mates to your lens for mounting. Cut and grind away the excess, leaving just enough to bring your lenses to infinity focus when mounted on your adapter mounting ring.

Another approach uses a surplus Bronica extension tube with lens mount hardware (e.g., C-B tube). A machinist can remove and remount these metal lens parts onto a threaded ring. The ring is wide enough to let the rear of your desired lenses (e.g., 50mm, 75mm) project through the body mounted spacer board groove and into the camera. A matching threaded nut epoxied on your lens board will mate to the threaded lens mount ring. This threaded mount design makes it easy to adjust infinity focusing by simply screwing the lens into and out of the mounting threaded nut.

This deluxe threaded lens mount also provides a range of focusing adjustments closer than infinity. But you can also use shims under your lens in its lens board mount to duplicate this closer-focusing effect on simpler designs. For really close-focusing shifts and tilts, you would obviously be able to use Bronica's tilt/shift bellows units.

Incidentally, you may wonder why we don't just use a Bronica tilt/shift bellows. We can, for closeup and macro-subjects, where the bellows can be adjusted to put the plane of focus where you need it. This capability is one reason there are no Bronica macro-lenses, since you can get even better control and results using the regular lenses on the tilt/shift bellows.

If you have the deluxe Bronica tilt/shift bellows, you can also use a variety of short telephoto lenses borrowed from old folders or view cameras for tilt/shift work too. These longer lens registration distance lenses can easily be setup and used for infinity focus with full tilts and shifts. But we really want tilts and shifts with wide angle lenses for architectural photography and other needs. View camera and folder lenses are almost all telephoto lenses when used on the Bronica, or much more costly than Bronica's own wide angle lenses. There are very few retro-focus wide angle designs for view cameras that might work with Bronica's 101.70mm lens registration distance. So we would really like to use Bronica's own low cost wide angle lenses on the tilt/shift bellows at infinity.

But unfortunately, there just isn't enough space when the Bronica tilt/shift bellows is mounted in the helical body mount to provide much if any tilt or shift range. The same problem affects the Kowa 6/66 tilt/shift bellows and the Rollei SL66 design, I'm told. But if you build your own Bronica shift adapter, you can keep it thin enough (that magic 8 mm) so you can retain infinity focus while still being able to shift the Bronica wide angle lenses.

In practice, you will probably rarely use your shift lens adapter on subjects much closer than infinity. Use the Bronica tilt/shift bellows for closeup and macro-work, gaining both tilts and shifts at low cost.

Stopping down will probably provide enough depth of field for most subjects using the wide angle lenses. Stopping down also greatly increases the coverage of any lens (e.g., up to 50% or more coverage). So be sure to stop down your lens whenever you need to get maximum depth-of-field and shifting range.

But a few spacers are cheap and easy to make if needed. They are simply large circular washers that fit under the lens with a hole that matches the one in the lens board (e.g., an overgrown washer). They act like mini-extension tubes, improving closeup performance. I should probably also mention that coverage of a lens dramatically improves when you use it with extension tubes for closeup work too.

In use, you just slide the lens board into the U-shaped grooves of the spacer board (epoxied to the body cap mount). Now mount the lens carefully through the hole in the helical body cap shift lens adapter and spacer board. You can hold the lens in place in the simplest design. You can also mount the lens in a body-cap lens rear mount or remounted extension tube model mounts (or one of your own design). Remove the regular helical body mount from your Bronica and replace with your homemade helical body cap shift lens adapter.

Thanks to the lens board, light can't get into the excess shift channel groove openings as the lens board blocks the way.

You can obviously mark your lens board with marks to indicate normal or centered setting, and millimeters of shift up or down. Simply measure the central point of the lens or lens mount and mark the corresponding distance on your adapter.

An obvious improvement is to drill and mount several simple and cheap thumbscrews in holes on each side of the retaining bars on the spacer board mount. Now you can carefully adjust the lens shift settings, then tighten the thumbscrews to hold everything in place. This approach will also help lock the lens board at a tight and repeatable infinity focusing point.

I suggest that if you use a wood or plastic material for your lens board, that you consider adding a thin strip of hobbyshop brass or steel epoxied on either side of the lens board, right under the thumbscrews in your setup. This trick will help to minimize the wear on your lens board edges. Similarly, you can counter-sink and epoxy in place nuts to match the thumbscrews you use in holes in the spacer board. Again, this trick will reduce wear and slippage with use.

Yes, this Bronica infinity shift adapter setup is somewhat crude. But it does cost from a hundred to a thousand times less than the nearest commercial medium format equivalent. Besides, what do you expect for a measly five bucks? ;-)

Varioflex II Short-Tele Lens Mount
Special thanks to PCE for this photo!
Pittsburgh Camera Exchange

The above photo shows a commercial shift lens mount from 1971 made by Vytron for 35mm camera use. Vytron Corp. produced a unique series of four short telephoto shift lenses in the 65mm (f6.8), 90mm (f6.8), 100mm (f5.6) and 110mm (f6.8) focal lengths. Mounted on one of their later adapters, the Schneider 65mm f6.8 Angulon lens could be shifted up to 23mm (!) in its Nikon mount.

This varioflex II lens mount adapter used a 35mm body mount (e.g., Nikon lens rear) attached to one of two plastic plates. A second plate slid over the top of the first. The lens was mounted in the second outer plate. The adapter could be shifted up and down, as you can see from the photo. A control could be turned to move the plates up and down. A lock held them in place when taking the photo.

This shift lens mount design is basically what we are replicating here for our Bronicas. You may want to get fancy too. Use a turning screw design to achieve more precise and repeatable control over your lens position in your shift adapter.

Our approach is actually superior to this commercial shift adapter in one way. We can use wide angle lenses in our design. The Vytron design was limited to longer lenses (i.e., short telephotos) which did not project into the camera body.

(see Wierd Third Party Lenses for more details)

Conclusions

Unfortunately, these tricks for making a medium format shift lens work best on a classic Bronica camera, and not on most other medium format cameras. You can't remove the lens mount in other camera designs, so you can't build an infinity focusing shift adapter.

Many other camera lenses aren't designed with extra coverage (cf. Hasselblad shift to Rodenstock lenses for coverage needs on the Arc body cameras).

Only Bronicas have a falling mirror design, making it possible to shift the rear-projecting wide angle lens elements upward without hitting the flipping mirror.

What? You want more??? You want a tilt/shift adapter too?

Well, sure, you could build a lizard-eye rotating ball-joint tilt/shift infinity-focusing lens mount adapter. Maybe something like a 360 degree rotating air conditioning ball-joint as used in first class planes and buses? But hey, that's gotta cost at least twenty bucks! Grins ;-)

P.S. - Hint: Don't forget that 101mm 6x9cm Kodak folder lens prototype in the table above! You remember it was cheap. Yet old 6x9cm folder lenses have lots and lots of coverage for 6x6cm, right? Well, those folder lenses are also quite small too. Small enough that you can fit it into one of those air-conditioning rotating eye-ball joints. You can epoxy the plastic eye-ball joint to a tube stub and slide it in and out of the body cap mount for focusing. Now you can shift up and down and tilt all around. But P L E A S E!! don't tell those other guys how little you paid for your tilt/shift lens, okay? Don't make them cry!

Some Tips for Non-Bronica S2/EC Users of Leaf Shutter and Other Focal Plane Cameras (Mamiya/Hassy..) [added 8/2/99]

Most of the ideas described above can be adapted for use on other brands and models of cameras with a bit of thought and experimentation. See the homebrew lenses pages for more ideas and tips.

Getting a shift lens effect at infinity requires:

• a lens that has adequate coverage for your format when shifted,
• a leaf shutter in the lens if your camera uses leaf shutter lenses (Hasselblad 500cm...), and
• a lens mounting distance that makes mounting at infinity possible.

These requirements are actually pretty easy to meet in most medium format setups, thanks to the many view camera and low cost folder lenses that can cover 6x9cm or better. Many of these same lenses are already mounted in integral leaf shutters too. Because of the intended 6x9cm format, most of these folder and view camera lenses are in the 105mm or longer focal length, making it possible to mount them for use at infinity on most medium format 6x6 or 6x7cm cameras.

By contrast, most 6x6cm cameras have normal lens focal lengths of circa 75mm to 80mm and a roughly comparable lens mounting distance. You can check your camera's Lens Registration Distance. For example, the Hasselblad 500c/cm is 74.90mm, while the Kowa 6 is 79.0mm. In other words, you will typically have an inch or so leeway for building a shift lens mounting (e.g., for Kowa 6 using 105mm folder lens: 105mm - 79.0mm = 26mm = 1+ inch). That's plenty of space for a body cap, extension tube, or bellows shift lens design in most cameras.

Most 6x9cm folder or view camera lenses (let alone 4x5 inch lenses) have plenty of coverage for use on 6x6cm or 6x7cm medium format cameras with shifts (and obviously 6x4.5cm is even easier). They are also easy to physically mount at the desired infinity focusing point. They are very cheap compared to most medium format optics, especially shift lenses. We will look into using these low cost lenses as shift lenses on both focal plane shutter and leaf shutter medium format camera models below.

If you are using a focal plane camera without an integral body mounted focusing mount (as in the Bronica S2/EC), then you need to provide a focusing mechanism. Lots of folks will only want a shift lens for architectural uses set at infinity, so a focusing mount may not be needed in such cases. If you do want a focusing mount, the easiest and most flexible approach is to use a medium format bellows. In fact, there are some medium format bellows (and 35mm equivalents) which featured front standard tilt and shifts. Besides the Bronica S2/EC and Kowa models, firms such as Spiratone and Novoflex made medium format bellows with tilt/shift front standards. Other medium format bellows (which have a wider opening than 35mm models) lacked the tilt or tilt/shift features, but are still useful for macro and focusing uses.

Using a bellows, you can easily vary the focus from infinity to closeup, limited only by the bellows length, for magnification factors (and the available light!). Modifying a medium format bellows to mount on your medium format camera may take just an extension tube or hollowed out body cap adapter, some epoxy, and a bellows adapter ring or mounting hardware. Some 35mm bellows may also work without vignetting, depending on the optics and spacing requirements. Obviously, test out and prototype your setup before cutting, epoxying, or taking any irreversible steps! ;-)

To use the lens, you need to "trick" the medium format camera into working with the mounted lens. If you have a focal plane camera (again, as with Bronica S2a, Rollei SL66..), then you just use preset or manual stop-down operation after focusing through the lens wide-open. Use the focal plane shutter to time the exposure, and ignore any leaf shutter in the lens. Naturally, you can also use barrel lenses (which lack any shutter, but usually have an Iris mechanism for presetting f/stops).

If you have a leaf shutter camera, you will probably have to use the leaf shutter in the lens to control the exposure. If the lens is a barrel lens or doesn't have a leaf shutter, you will have to mount it in a leaf shutter (or arrange for such a mounting) before using it on a leaf shutter camera (e.g., Hasselblad 500cm).

On many folder and mini-view camera lenses, you generally press a lever to open the leaf shutter lens for focusing and composing (or push a cable release screwed into the shutter in older view camera lens/shutter setups). Before shooting, the leaf shutter has to be cocked and closed. The SLR camera body is setup and triggered for a mirror-up exposure as in a time delay or similar shot (e.g., press regular shutter release). Now that the mirror is out of the way, you trip the release on the leaf shutter to make the desired timed exposure, using the leaf shutter's mechanical mechanism for timing.

All this sounds more complicated than it really is. You push a lever to focus and compose. Press it again (or release pressure on some models) to close the leaf shutter. Stop down manually to desired aperture. Now cock the leaf shutter. You are ready to shoot. Using a dual cable release, the body shutter release is triggered first and then the leaf shutter lens is triggered shortly thereafter as part of one smooth pressing motion. The leaf shutter exposes the film for the desired time and closes. Advance the film, resetting the body and mirror to viewing position. Open the leaf shutter lens by pushing that lever again to open it for focusing and composition and twist the iris or aperture control to open it to maximum aperture. Since shift lenses are usually used on a tripod with precise horizon leveling, and to take photos of non-moving buildings and the like, the one or two seconds needed to take the actual exposure is not a problem for most of us.

[Aside: For moving subjects, I find a sport-finder cheap and handy for composing shots when just using the leaf shutter lens for flash-synch or synchro-sunlight portraits (e.g., on a focal plane shutter Bronica S2a). You can prefocus or zone focus and set aperture and leaf shutter exposure time for the prevailing light, and be able to shoot almost as fast as with a regular lens thanks to the dual plunger cable release. The sport finder or a simple wire frame setup is fast and easy to use, and I think lets you interact better with the subjects too.]

In many leaf shutter SLR cameras such as my Hasselblad 500c/cm and Kowa 6, the mirror will stay out of position until you advance the film again and return the mirror to its position for focusing and viewing. Since the odd-ball lens' leaf shutter isn't coupled to the camera film/shutter advance, you have to mechanically cock the leaf shutter in the lens by hand (e.g., push down on a lever usually to "cock it"). Now you can press the open-for-focusing lever (or use a cable release) to open up the leaf shutter for through the lens composition and focusing. Simply stop-down, close the leaf shutter, trip the shutter, and repeat the cycle for each exposure.

A few folder leaf shutter lenses won't have a lever or mechanism to keep them open (as no ground glass focusing and film holder was made for that camera and so on). You should be able to fake it by using the "T" or time exposure settings (or "B" or bulb setting, with a locking cable release). Open up the aperture ring or iris, cock the shutter after setting it to "T" for time exposure, and trip the shutter to open up the leaf shutter for focusing and composing. The leaf shutter will remain open on the "T" or time exposure setting for hours, or until you trip the shutter again to let it close. So just trip the shutter a second time on the "T" setting to close the shutter (or release the cable release clamp on "B" settings) when ready to shoot the picture. Now stop down manually and cock the leaf shutter again for taking the actual (brief) exposure, and continue with the exposure cycle as above.

The only difference with a shift lens is that you have an extra capability to control and fiddle with the position of the lens. With a tilt/shift bellows, this is done by simply raising or lowering the lens in the front tilt/shift bellows standard. With a body cap style mount as described above, you simply shift the lens up and down as needed. A limited amount of focusing may be possible simply by putting shims under the lens (or screwing out the mount in a deluxe setup) if you aren't using a bellows.

You can also combine approaches. In other words, you can "steal" a shift or tilt/shift front standard and bellows from a low cost 6x9cm view camera. Mount it on the camera using a hollowed out body cap or other setup. Now you have to support the lens and bellows and make it movable for focusing. A bent L-shaped metal bar attached to the camera's tripod socket with a 1/4x20 screw may be all it takes to support this setup. Cut a 1/4 inch channel down the middle of the metal bar from the tripod mounting hole, and you can slide it backwards and forwards for focusing easily too.

If your folder lens doesn't have a tilt/shift front standard, you can add shifts by using a large screw and wing nut combo to push the fixed lens standard up and down from the support bar. Tilts may also be possible with a bit of ingenuity (or a loose setup!).

Again, if you have a focal plane shutter camera, you simply ignore the leaf shutter and use the camera's focal plane shutter. However, if the lens and leaf shutter have flash synch (X-synch) terminals, you now have a "synchro-flash" or leaf shutter lens for your use on your focal plane camera too. You can use the leaf shutter lens and X-synch terminal for flash synch at any available leaf shutter speed (e.g., 1/125th, 1/250th, 1/500th..). Even if you don't really need a shift or tilt/shift lens, the option of adding a low cost leaf shutter lens to your available lens optics may be worth it just for the extended flash synchronization option!

Unfortunately, due to the size of the body cap adapter and needed mountings or bellows, you probably can't use any of the standard lenses for your camera - at least, not at infinity. They might not have enough coverage for shifting anyway. [Exceptions might include a few lenses and lens heads using Novoflex or similar focusing mounts.] But the cost of 6x9cm folder lenses and similar view camera lenses (and lenses in barrels for focal plane shutter camera owners) is so low that you can afford to experiment.

You may also be able to use Polaroid camera lenses (integral shutters, often limited speeds except for the (Rodenstock) view camera lens series such as Polaroid 110a cameras). These polaroid camera lenses are also very cheap used (e.g., Polaroid Swinger, SX-70..), often have flash X-synch terminals, are designed for a large format (well beyond 6x7cm, more like 3x4 inches), and are typically 103mm, 105mm, or 107mm focal lengths. Cheaper zone focusing ones may be cheaper and easier to adapt than the sonar and electronic ones. Anyway, keep your eyes open at the next garage sale, as that $10 polaroid clunker may be just what you need!

Hopefully, you have gotten some ideas now of just how easy it may be to adapt existing low cost folder and view camera (even polaroid) lenses for use as shift and tilt/shift lenses on your medium format camera. I should point out that most of these designs involve slightly longer than normal or short telephoto focal length lenses rather than wide angle design lenses. There are some wide angle retrofocus lenses with long lens registration distances (e.g., Bronica S2/EC 101.70mm lens registration optics) that might be used for a wide angle shift lens on some other medium format cameras (with shorter lens registration distances). But most of these tricks using lenses with more coverage from larger formats mean use of slightly tele-lenses on medium format for obvious reasons.

If you still want medium format shift lenses, especially in a wide angle design, but don't or can't go homebrew, consider the Kiev-88 cameras. You can buy any of the 3 available wide angle shift lenses for these focal plane cameras, plus the camera, for less than most used Hasselblad optics or similar lenses for another camera. Or look into the benefits of owning a Bronica S2/EC camera and its low cost optics too! At the other end of the price scale, the Hasselblad Flexbody or Arcbody cameras and associated lenses offer mini-view camera style movements (albeit limited ranges, and at a high price).

Finally, perhaps you can simply use a Horseman or similar mini 6x9cm view camera or 4x5 inch view camera with rollfilm back? The 6x9cm cameras are surprisingly small and portable when folded up, the lenses are excellent, and range of movements more than adequate. Cost is surprisingly low given the quality of the optics and flexibility of the basic camera system too. Besides, it is great fun to experiment with a view camera too!

Notes:

Source: Modern Photography of April 1982, p. 90-2, How to Use Your SLR as a View Camera by Lester Lefkowitz.

Minolta and Contax/Yashica have bellows whose fronts shift horizontally or rotate (swing) about their vertical axis. Spiratone's Bellowsmaster has front AND rear standards that swing about the horizontal and vertical axes. Using a lens board and these bellows, you can achieve camera body shifts up and down and sideways. The Spiratone bellowsmaster has a 42mm T-mount lens board, so with a reverse T-mount, you can use a variety of lenses on it in shift mode too. Spiratone sells these and related adapter rings. Schneider can also mount many lenses to this bellows with similar adapters and their short mount lenses (cf. lens heads). [Ed. note - this is the old Spiratone, from used stock or EBAY, not the current user of the Spiratone name]

rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
From: "Bob Salomon" [email protected]
[1] Re: Zork P67/645 Shift/Tilt adapter
Date: Sat Jan 16 1999

Zork is imported and distributed by Ken Hansen Photo in New York

212 317 0923

They are only open M -F no evenings
Bob

                
>I have also heard rumors that an American distributor has done a deal to
>sell these in America. Otherwise, they must be bought from the original
>German source. I am interested in hearing any experience, gossip, or
>facts about their products. They seem to be an almost ideal solution for
>MF architectural shoots.
>
>The web pages are:
>
>http://www.smu.edu/~rmonagha/mf/links.html    (for Monaghan's MF page)
>
>and
>
>http://www.zoerk.com/    (for Zork adapters)
>
>Thanks for any help.
>
>Rick Dawson            

Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999
From: Peter Klosky [email protected]
Subject: Re: Shift problem

Just for fun, I researched this a little. Here are some details, from literature (Adorama Catalog, NYC, USA):

The Super Angulon (SA) comes in two versions, the standard and the XL.

SA - 105 degrees, image circle 123mm. $1042 usd
SA XL - 120 degrees, image circle 166mm. $1409 usd

There are several Toyos, as well as other cameras.

Toyo 45CX - $549 usd.
Calument Cadet Wide - $399 usd.

Rollfilm backs:

Toyo 6x9 - $599
Toyo 6x7 - $599

By my calculations, which are crude, the 6x9 needs an image circle of 108mm, so the XL would allow for more movement.

Peter

>>> Briefly stated: I can't understand if it's possible to shift a 40 mm
>>> lens and how people work around that problem.
>
>Rent a 2x3 view camera with a 6x7 roll film back and a 47mm Super
>Angulon.  It should do the trick.

You might consider something like a Schneider Super Angulon 47/5.6 coupled with a 6x9 rollfilm back on a Toyo-View. One of the top architecture guys in my area uses this, and his results are excellent. You might be able to shop for a cheaper view camera and back, but the Angulon has a >>fine reputation for having a large image circle, to be able to withstand the use of movements. The 40mm Hassy lens is four times the cost of the Angulon. ($4K vs. $1K).

rec.photo.equipment.misc
From: "jeffrey wong" [email protected]
[1] Re: Tilt-Shift lenses..
Date: Thu Feb 11 1999

Jimmie,

I have used a 24 mm TS lens and love it. First, tilts: this feature allows an actual rotation of the lens in one axis depending on how you adjust the lens. If you rotate or tilt the lens in the horizontal axis, you can shoot along a wall at f/5.6 or f/8 and get the entire wall in focus from close to the camera all the way out to the end as far away as infinity. If you rotate or tilt the lens in the vertical axis, you can shoot a flat landscape at f/5.6 and get the depth of field from close to the camera all the way out to the end as far away as infinity. A non-tilting lens might require a small aperture like f/16 or f/22 to get that same depth of field, and a correspondingly slower shutter speed. In addition, with a larger aperture possible with the TS lens, you would lessen the possibility that diffraction might affect sharpness in your final image. The Scheimpflug rule states that if you can get the the filmplane, the lensplane and the subject plane to all converge in a line (3 dimensionally) or a point (if you think of seeing the camera and subject plane from the side), the subject plane will fall into sharp focus. B&H's website http://www.bhphotovideo.com/photo/large/intro/introduction.html has an excellent explanation.

Shifts of the lens allow one to lessen the effect of converging lines in subjects such as buildings, or a stand of trees. When shooting a tall building, you normally tilt your camera back to get the whole thing into the viewfinder. If you have a TS lens, you may be able to keep your camera's film plane vertical and by shifting the lens higher get the building on the film with little or no converging of the lines.

To really learn about how these lenses work, you should go to your public library and/or bookstore and look for any book about Large Format Cameras or View Cameras. You can read a chapter or two for free.

[email protected]
www.angelfire.com/nv/wongnumber

>Does anyone out there use a tilt-shift lense, and if they do could they give
>a small discusion on how they work, what advantages they find in using them,
>and how easy they are to use    

rec.photo.equipment.misc
From: [email protected] (John J Stafford)
[1] Re: Tilt-Shift lenses..
Date: Thu Feb 11 1999

[email protected] wrote:

I am not aware of any 35mm specialist lens which "tilts".

Actually, there is one. See the link below. It's a bit of a mind-blow.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/photo/large/horseman/hvcc.html

Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999
From: "M. Denis Hill" [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: widest lens on roundshot

18mm will not ... only covers about 45mm. That makes me guess that the 20mm also will not, so it's either the 24mm or 28mm. 35mm is no sweat. 35mm PC can shift 5 or 6 mm and still cover the film.

Denis

Jesse Goff wrote:

> Anyone know what the widest nikon lens is that will cover on a Roundshot 220VR?
>
> Jesse    

Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999
From: Gene Woolridge [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: widest lens on roundshot

Jesse,

Had the same problem & took care of it by having Hulcher make a Mamiya 645 lense adapter w/shift for the camera. Long before Sietz even made the one for Hassbld. Had the 645 lenses & NOW have now concernson film coverage. As for Nikons lenes, when I was in Cherokee,NC @ the pan convention, I used Dennis Trembly's 28 shift & I believe it covered.

PS. Take my advice and CONVERT!!!

Any questions, E-mail direct!

Gene Woolridge

Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999
From: Glenn Barry [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: 4x5 Fisheye - was Simonturnpike ford

Hi Steve,

I didn't remove the mount from the front panel of an RB, I removed the entire front panel, shutter cocking mechanism and all, then modified it so that I could cock the shutter from outside of the panel. I would have bypassed the arsat route altogether had I been able to find an RB 37mm, but as luck would have it, just when I finished the Arsat adaption one turned up, but the cash was gone by that stage. C'est la vie.

Glenn

Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999
From: "M. Denis Hill" [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: 645 lens on roundshot

And for those who want to use Mamiya (or other MF lenses) on a Nikon mount camera sans modification to the camera, try a Zork adapter. I used one with Mamiya 645 lenses on a Super 220 with great success (with respect to coverage and shift, that is).

Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Rollei] 30mm on an sl66

I tried to get my 30mm KIEV changed, but Mr. Zvrkendvrfer Munich told me, that only the 180mm Zeiss and the 300mm are suitable doing the adaption. The lens construction for the 30mm doesnot allow such an adaptation.

Werner

From: [email protected] (Michael Gudzinowicz)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.large-format
Subject: Re: Image circle vs focal length
Date: 23 Jan 1999

Gary [email protected] wrote:

>I think that what I was trying to say is that if you take two lenses
>such as a 210mm and a 135mm lens with the same image circle (to me
>focal length and angle of coverage OR image circle give me the same
>information); the 135 will withstand more extreme tilts and swings of
>the front lens board because of the closer distance to the film plane.
>
>In other words the image circle will shift less for the same degree of
>tilt in a 135mm lens than for a 210mm lens.
>
>Is this correct thinking?

Work through the problem...

First, consider rise/fall/shift comparing two lenses with the same image circle diameter. Suppose the image circle is 8 inches, and in the center one draws a 4x5 inch rectangle to represent the film. The formula for a circle is r^2 = x^2 + y^2, where r is the radius, and x and y are the x,y coordinates of points on the circle. In the example, r = 4", and if the long dimension of the film is horizontal, one can set x=2.5", and calculate y on the circle: y = (r^2 - x^2)^0.5 = (4^2 - 2.5^2)^0.5 = 3.12". The image circle lies 3.12" above (below) the corner of the film. The amount of rise/fall available is 3.12" - 2" = 1.12". If the film is in the vertical position, the rise/fall is (4^2 - 2^2)^0.5 - 2.5 = 0.96".

If the lens is shifted up in the first case by 1.12", then at infinity focus the tangent of angle to the lens is 1.12 / focal length, or the angle is atan(1.12/focal length). Therefore, shorter lenses with the same image circle as long lenses, can have a greater range of rise/fall/shift than longer lenses. Nothing surprising.

If you consider the case where lenses of different focal lengths which have the same coverage angle (different circles) are compared, then you should find that the longer lenses will permit larger rise/fall/shifts, and when the angle is determined, the longer lenses permit a larger rise/fall/shift angle form the "neutral" position.

For tilts, the situation is a bit more complex, but can be simplified. Suppose you want to compare the degree of tilt required to set the plane of focus to the same angle for a short and long lens. The planes of the camera back, lens plane and plane of focus all will intersect at the same point. If one lens is twice the focal length of another, its total extension is approximately twice that of the short lens, and the angle is approximately twice as large (for small angles, which are usually encountered). The approximation is close for typical landscape situations where lens tilt is only a few degrees. In most 4x5 situations where a lens has an _adequate_ circle, tilts are not a problem.

Bob Wheeler has the exact formulas in the view camera pdf file at his ftp site:

His presentation is exceptional, and provides the formulas and derivations to do accurate calculations. For _small_ tilt angles, the rise/fall/shift angle determined above will be slightly larger than the tilt angle covered by the circle. For larger angles, the view axis through the lens remains perpendicular to the film plane, and at the planee of the view angle cone if it is to remain in focus. The effect is that the film plane is tilted with respect to the base of the cone, and doesn't "hit" the cone in the same spot as the rise/fall/shift case. The angle is less in most cases (the exception is when the frame edge at the limit of the circle is in focus).

I don't know if that helps to clarify the problem. If not, I'd suggest drawing the geometric models and pushing things around on graph paper, or deriving an exact solution for specific cases.

From: Bruce William Johnson [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: medium format w/movements
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999

Steve

Several companies make medium format cameras that have tilt/shift available. Here are some that I know about. If the main feature that you are looking for is the Tilt / Shift feature you may want to check out the Fuji GX-680 II since it is designed mainly for this purpose. I personally own an Mamiya RZ67 Pro II and love it but I do not have any of the Tilt / Shift lenses so I can't comment on using it like that.

Mamiya RB67
    75mm / f4.5 Tilt / Shift lens    

Mamiya RZ67
    75mm / f4.5 Tilt / Shift lens
    Tilt / Shift adapter.
Note: The Tilt / Shift adapter can be used on any of the RZ lenses but will
not focus at infinity.  They have several lenses designed to use with this
adapter and can focus to infinity.

Fuji GX-680 II
    Camera body designed for Tilt / Shift and has lenses from 50mm to 300mm.

Pentax 67
    75mm / f4.5 Tilt / Shift lens

Hasselblad
    Has adapters that will allow Tilt / Shift with there lenses. 

I hope this will help.
Bruce W. Johnson

From: "Michael K. Davis" [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.misc
Subject: Re: Tilt-Shift lenses..
Date: 22 Feb 1999

GaryB [email protected] wrote:

: >Does anyone out there use a tilt-shift lense, and if they do could  they give
: >a small discusion on how they work, what advantages they find in using  them,
: >and how easy they are to use.  I am currently using a Canon EOS, but a
: >discussion of any brand would be fine.

Are you aware of the 24, 45 and 90mm Tilt-Shift lenses made by Canon?

http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/speciallenses/canonts.htm

Rollei offers a similar lens for the 6000 series:

http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/speciallenses/canonts.htm

Mike
--

From: jchow [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.large-format
Subject: Re: Hasselblad ARC BODY
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999

Jonathan Dewdney wrote:
[clip]

> Why can't  anyone seem to design a relatively inexpensive medium format
> camera (6x7, if you're listening..!) that can shift, at least in one
> axis positively or negatively, and that's not TOO cumbersome?? It must
> SURELY be possible!

The only camera I've seen that doesn't require one to be a weightlifter is the Horseman SW612 pro with the interchangeable 6x7, 6x9, and 6x12 filmbacks. There's +/-15mm of rise/fall and +/-20mm of left/right shift, but no tilt/swing. The good news is that it only weighs 3 lbs. Lenses range from 35mm to 90mm. There's no coupled rangefinder and no meter, so it's strictly a mechanical camera. It's a tad smaller than a Mamiya 7. You can see photos of it on Horseman's webpage.

--Jim

From: Struan Gray [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.large-format
Subject: Re: Hasselblad ARC BODY
Date: 24 Feb 1999

Jonathan Dewdney, [email protected] writes:

> Why can't  anyone seem to design a relatively
> inexpensive medium format camera (6x7, if you're
> listening..!) that can shift, at least in one
> axis positively or negatively, and that's not
> TOO cumbersome??

'Inexpensive' is a moveable feast, but for a direct Arcbody competitor that takes Hasselblad backs (and others) but with real view camera movements, take a look at the Linhof M679:

http://www.ambiente.com.br/linhof/M679_1.htm

Struan

From Nikon Mailing List:
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999
From: Roger Eritja [email protected]
Subject: [NIKON] Re: tilt/shift for macrophotography

Hi all,

In regards to tilted and shifted macrophotography, it could perhaps be useful to take a look to Herr Zoerkendorfer's site (www.zoerk.com if I recall, his Email is [email protected] anyway). He produces a macro tilt/shift system that works with enlarger lenses. It's modular too - can fit several types of extension tubes in between the camera and the shifting unit, and it's not much expensive. I know he manufactures adapters for major brands so I hope there is Nikon content in this post :-)

I'd probably had bought one of his units if I had visited his website before buying my 645 macro lens!

Roger

Date: Tue, 11 May 1999
From: Grant Stewart Goodes [email protected]
Subject: Re: [NIKON] Re: #50 Tilt/Shift for photomacrography

[email protected] said:

> My old Nikon PB-4 bellows has front sideways shift and tilt plus
> camera body rotation so the adjustments can also be vertical.
> Presumably the new bellows PB-6 do the same.

The PB-4 is the only Nikon bellows with shift and tilt. The PB-6, though a better design in many ways, lacks this feature. The German company, Hama, makes a tilt/shift bellows in Nikon mount. Probably others exist.

> Would that make life easier and enable you to use a current Nikon
> lens?

Yes, this is possible, but you have to take into account the limited image circle of a lens designed to cover 35mm film. Although that image circle does increase as you focus into the macro-realm, any significant tilt/shift will probably put you into the edge of the image circle (aberations and light fall-off galore) or beyond (partially vignetted image). These lenses were just not meant to be used in this way (exceptions are the PC-Nikkors, which are more like medium formt lenses in their coverage power). This is the reason that "Moose" Pedersen judges the tilt/shift features PB-4 as more-or-less useless in his Nikon System Handbook.

In fact, I _do_ use a PB-4 for tilt/shift macro photography, but quickly gave up on using my Macro-Nikkor 105/2.8 for this purpose: The images I got, even with modest tilt, were unacceptable. I was lucky enough to find an old Wollensak 138/4.5 Graphic Raptar, converted to Nikon F mount, used on rec.photo.marketplace for a very reasonable price. This lens was designed to cover 4"x5", and has more than enough image circle to permit the full range of shifts and tilts that the PB-4 can offer, and as a rather serious bonus, permits focussing to infinity even on the bellows. The lens itself is so compact that putting on the rear lens-cap doubles its size! This small size is probably one of the reasons that it performs well when tilted, since a physically longer lens would suffer serious vignetting in that position.

Anyways, a Nikon adpated Canon TS lens would be far more compact and convenient than my PB-4/Raptar setup, but would doubtless cost four or five times as much (the conversion alone is more than a PB-4). The main problem I have with the PB-4 setup is that you need a massive tripod and tripod-head to allow downward tilts (the most commonly needed for macro photography) since the PB-4 is designed to do left/right swings as its default. To get tilt, you have to put the bellows out to the left or right side (ie., swing it through 90 degrees from the normal upright position), and the combination of body/bellows/lens/flash hanging way out to one side over-ballances normal 35mm-capable tripods.

If you want to try this on the cheap, and already have a PB-4, just buy an old in-barrel (no shutter) large format lens from the junk bin of your local camera store (anything over say 5" focal length will do) and then drill out a Nikon F mount body cap (not the cheap snap on kind provided by default) with the right size hole, and mount the lens in the body cap. Voila! You have now converted a 40 year-old large format lens to Nikon F mount, and can use it on your PB-4 to experiment with tilt/shift photography. Such a set up should cost well under $500, including the PB-4.

grant..

Date: Tue, 11 May 1999
From: "James MacDonald" [email protected]
Subject: [NIKON] Re: #50 Tilt/Shift for photomacrography

PB-4 is the only Nikon bellows having swing/shift adjustments. PB-6, unfortunately, does not. "Unfortunately", because PB-4 does not easily accommodate camera bodies after F3. For example, to get an F4 on the PB-4, one must use an extension tube of some sort between the bellows and camera body. I keep a Nikon PK-11A on my PB-4 just for this reason. Even so, the PB-4's integral focussing rail cannot be used due to lack of clearance. That's why the PB -6 needs its purpose-made extension blocks. Doubly unfortunate.

Use of the PB-4 as a makeshift (no pun intended) tilt/shift lens is problematic. It was intended for use on a specialized Nikon copy stand, with the lensboard employing 'swing' movements for focus-plane control. To use PB-4 as a 'tilt' device from a conventional tripod requires that it be turned 90 degrees. The combined weight of camera/bellows/lens is considerable. When 'flopped' 90 degrees, this weight is well off to the side. This requires a massive tripod head that can be locked down solidly. And even then, it's an awkward bundle to manage. Real tilt fanatics have made custom "L" brackets to both hold the bellows permanently in a sideways position and move its center of gravity more directly over the tripod.

Further, even with no extension tube, about 105mm is shortest focal length lens that will focus to a useable distance. And any lens used for this purpose must be of the so-called 'short mount' configuration; i.e., no focussing helix. This eliminates all conventional 35mm camera lenses from consideration. Nikon once sold special purpose-made 'bellows' lenses in 105mm and 135mm focal lengths. Both have been long discontinued. Collectors have bid up the market prices for these lenses to unreasonable levels. Enlarging lenses in the 105 - 150mm f/l range can be used to good effect. Older Schneider Componon-S 135mm and 150mm will fit a common Nikon "T" mount, which then just bayonets into the bellows. (Current Schneider production has different threads.) Use of Nikon or Rodenstock lenses requires a Nikon F to Leica M39 adapter. Nikon once made such an adapter called "EL-F". At one time, these were available from Nikon dealers and Nikon Instruments distributors. Schneider has a new line of enlarging lens adapters, but I have not seen them and know little about them. http://www.schneideroptics.com/pressreleases/Macro_System.html

This is all a lot more trouble and cost than it's worth for a heavy, bulky and generally cumbersome piece of equipment that will probably go no farther than the car can travel. Better to go lay down until the 'tilt & shift' feeling goes away. Or,alternatively, until Nikon condescends to give us a couple of useable tilt/shift lenses.

Jim
[email protected]

>Kenneth Petersen was asking about converting a Canon lens to fit
>Nikon because he needed tilt/shift for macrophotgraphy.
>My old Nikon PB-4 bellows has front sideways shift and tilt plus
>camera body rotation so the adjustments can also be vertical.
>Presumably the new bellows PB-6 do the same.

>Would that make life easier and enable you to use a current Nikon
>lens?

>Regards...........  Guy Parsons

[Ed. Note: noted Lens Hacker Greg Erker suggests a new use for the Bronica bellows here - stereo macrophotography! Wow! Neato!]
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999
From: Greg Erker [email protected]
Subject: [BRONICA] New Member: Greg Erker

Hi all,

I'll introduce myself by saying my primary interest is medium format stereo photography. For normal shooting I have a 60's vintage Sputnik stereo camera and have almost completed building a better camera from two Ricohmatic 225 TLRs.

For closeup stereos I got myself a Bronica S2A with Nikkor-P 75mm f2.8 lens. Then later got the Model II bellows. (Take one photo, shift the camera to the right by 5 or 10 or 50mm and take another photo to get a stereo pair).

I recently got a Bronica 80mm f2.4 lens from ebay. I was hoping that the 6 elements vs 5 would make it better for closeups. Also the 80 is multicoated. And the 1/2 stop faster lens should make focusing easier for normal (non-macro) shooting.

I'll post a report on my test results comparing the 75/2.8 vs the 80/2.4 in a separate email.

Lastly, some of you might know me from the Bronica 57x1mm threaded caps and reversing rings my brother-in-law made that I sold for him. (Sold out, unfortunately).

I have info on most of these things on my web page at:

http://www.angelfire.com/ca/erker

Regards - Greg E.

From: Bjorn Rorslett [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.technique.nature
Subject: Re: shifting and tilting---right angle or parallel?
Date: Thu, 06 May 1999

cmesa wrote:

> I have three Canon (35mm format) tilt-shift lenses: 24mm and 90mm for EOS,
> and 35mm for FD. They are all preset in the "right-angle system", where  "the
> shift and tilt functions operate at right angles to each other." I am
> thinking of changing them all to the "parallel system", where "the  shift and
> tilt functions operate in the same direction." This way, I hope, my flowers
> and mountains can both be in focus, while the mountains do not lean back.
> (Any Canon service facility can make the adjustment.) I realize that in the
> parallel system, I would be able to focus past infinity at the top of the
> image, and I am hoping to use that feature with a 12mm extension tube for
> closer foregrounds at the bottom and infinity focus at the top.
>
> Has anyone else done this? Does it sound like a mistake? Do any  large-format
> outdoor photographers have insights?---for example, do your pictures that
> involve tilt and shift (or whatever term you use) at the same time use the
> right-angle system or the parallel system more often?
>
> Thanks in advance for any help or ideas.
>
> Jerry Fusselman

hi

you are definitively on the right track. Using tilt on a tilt/shift (TS) to get the foreground into focus necessitates some shifting too, to keep the image in the right position. Otherwise, when you tilt, the foreground not only comes into focus, it also grows to dominate the composition. A little shift (in "parallell") will bring the background into the image again. This is exactly the same way you would work with a view camera.

I use this technique for all my work with TS lenses, using both the Canon TS 35 mm (adapted for Nikon), and the PC-Nikkor 28 mm modified to be a true tilt/shift lens. You'll find images taken with these two lenses on my web site, and photos of the tilt/shift version of the PC-Nikkor as well. Follow the Equipment link from the menu bar of

http://www.foto.no/nikon .

By the way, most TS lenses for 35 mm photography have insufficient shift capacity to make them true competitors for a large-format view camera. Using them on a reflex camera also means the mirror-box will block some of the light rays when tilting (or shifting) is too extreme. This disadvantage is partly, but not completely, counteracted by the short focal lengths for the 35mm-format lenses. My PC-Nikkor has nearly 15 cm of shift combined with up to 60 degrees of tilt and that makes for some "impossible" shoots. Do have a look on my site to see why.

regards
Bjorn Rorslett
Visit http://www.foto.no/nikon for UV Colour Photography and other Adventures in Nature Photography

From: "Kerry L. Thalmann" [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Finally found a MF with Movements etc.
Date: Tue, 04 May 1999

Bob Salomon wrote:

> Well the Linhof TK 23 is a 6x9cm with fulll movements as is the  Technika V
> 23b and the Linhof M679. All take 69 film or even Hasselblad backs or
> Bronica GS 1 backs as well as Linhof 6x6, 6x7, 6x9 and 7omm backs.

> HP Marketing Corp. U.S. distributor for Amazon, Braun, Gepe, Giottos, GO
> Light, Heliopan, HP Combi Plan T, Kaiser fototechnik, KoPho cases, Linhof,
> Pro Release, Rimowa, Rodenstock,Sirostar 2000

Well, since Bob has only mentioned the products he sells (once again), I'd just like to add that there are several other choices in 2x3 monorails and press cameras, most costing hundreds less than the Linhofs, many costing thousands less.

In monorails, there is the excellent Arca Swiss F Line. Unlike the Linhof TK23 and M679. the Arca is part of an easily expandable system that lets you easily updgrade it to large formats (4x5, 5x7 and even 8x10) or increase the bellow extension by adding accessory rails and bellows. Toyo used to also make a 2x3 monorail, but I believe it has been discontinued. I do see them occasionally on the used market. In a more modest monorail, there is the Gowland 2x3 Pocket View starting at $725 new.

In press cameras there is the excellent series of Horseman models, the current model is the VH. The Linhof Super Techika 23 model does have 2" more bellows draw (11.8" vs. 9.8") and a coupled rangefinder (of course, the rangefinder is useless if you plan to use any camera movements - if you do want a coupled rangefinder the Horseman VHR and it's predecessors are commonly available on the used market). The Horseman also costs over $4800 less than the Linhof (comparing retail prices from B&H - Linhof $6895 vs. Horseman $2069).

Ebony makes a series of 2x3 wooden field cameras. At around $3000, they're not cheap (but then neither are most of the others listed so far), but are exquisitely made of ebony wood with titanium hardware. If you want something that folds up small and still has an impressive range of movements and bellows extension, the Ebonies are a good choice. The SV23 model accepts lenses from 35mm (on a recessed board) up to 720mm telephoto (500mm bellows extension), yet weighs just a hair under 4 lbs. That a pretty impressive lens range in such a small, lightweight package. Ebony also makes a of non-folding wide angle wood cameras in the 2x3 format.

Of course, for those with more modest budgets, there is always the used market. A 2x3 Century or Crown Graphic will allow modest front movements (easily modified for full front movements). They are very light and inexpensive. They have rangefinders that are adjustable for different lenses (not field adjustable), and best of all, you can put a modern multi-coated lens on them for outstanding results (some of the older lenses, like the Kodak Ektars, are also outstanding). For a used lightweight monorail, there is the Galvin. The older Horseman press cameras 900 series and the older Linhof Technikas also make good bargains on the used market.

I'm not knocking the Linhof products Bob sells. They are indeed wonderful and Bob is rightfully proud to represent them. I just wanted to point out that there are alternatives other than those Bob listed.

Finally, if you are really interested in full view camera movements, a 4x5 camera with a roll film back may make a better choice. There are many more choices in 4x5 cameras, both new and used (from lightweight wood fields - computer controlled studio machines) in all price ranges.

Kerry
--
Kerry L. Thalmann Large Format Images of Nature
A Few of My Images Online at: http://www.thalmann.com/

[Ed. note: this is a different application of a shift lens, converting a 35mm shift lens into a medium format panoramic camera on the Hasselblad X-Pan/Fuji model...]

From: [email protected] (Willem-Jan Markerink)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: 24mm lenses for MF
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 99

John Coz [email protected] wrote:

>zeitgeist wrote:
>>>   (I pack a 24mm fisheye to
>> > > weddings so I might be weird.)
>> >
>> > You pack a WHAT?  On medium format?  Strange ... I'd love to see 
>> >what  kind of pictures you use it for.
>
>Good Gracious - Can this be?  I have a Japanese 24mm lens in some kind
>of huge screw mount.  I have never been able to find a matching camera. 
>Could this be some kind of MF superwide?  Was there ever a screw mount
>MF system?  Any input is much appreciated.

Unless it says 'fisheye' on the barrel, you can exclude it from being a MF lens....there are no 24mm rectilinear lenses for MF, only fisheyes (yes, that's plural, I doubt many folks will know what the second one is....:-)).

An overview of fisheye lenses, both 35mm and MF, both circular and full-frame, can be found on my homepage:

http://www.a1.nl/phomepag/markerink/mainpage.htm

(that second 24mm fisheye isn't listed on my homepage btw....too rare, too little known about it)

(posted & mailed)

[Btw, one COULD have a rectilinear 24mm lens for medium-format....the only thing needed is a Canon EOS panorama body, allowing 24x58mm frames when a TS-E tilt/shift lens is mounted (24, 45 or 90mm)....it's all within the coverage of these lenses (11mm shift to either side means 36+11+11=58mm)....I am currently poking my Canon contacts to see if Canon Japan has ever thought about this at all....considering the success of the Hassy X-pan and the upcoming Voigtlaender Bessa L/15mm, it would be a blast for Canon to launch a cheap panorama body (non-AF (TS-E is manual focus), perhaps not even SLR but viewfinder (although an SLR construction would make it different than all other pan cameras)....

If anyone is as lyric about such a solution as I am, please send me a confirmative mail!

(just to illustrate the fun: the horizontal view of a 24mm lens with a 24x58mm frame (101 degree) means a similar horizontal view as a 14mm lens, or the diagonal view of a 17mm lens)

--
Bye,

Willem-Jan Markerink

[email protected]
[note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!]

From Nikon Mailing List:
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999
From: Robert Monaghan [email protected]
Subject: [NIKON] Ukrainian 8mm/f3.5 Nikon mount; 16 & 17mm fisheye; 35mm f2.8 shift

anyone have any experience with the various Ukrainian lenses in nikon mount fisheyes and shift lens? see http://www.dedal.cz/optics/default.htm (35mm..) e.g. multicoated PCS arsat Nikon mount 35mm/f2.8 shift lens ($280 US)

MC Peleng M/N - 3.5/8 "superwide angle fish eye" $380 US

MC Zenitar N - 2.8/16 "fish eye" $260 US

MC Peleng M/N - 2.8/17 "fish eye" $140 US

Thanks for sharing any lens reviews or experience! regards bobm

From Nikon Mailing List:
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999
From: [email protected]
Subject: [NIKON] 28mm PC Super Angulon-R

I would like to share some information with you that I have recently discovered. Schneider makes a lens for Leica which is the 28 mm PC Super Angulon. This is a perspective control preset function lens which only shifts up/down or right/left. I have been using this lens on my Leica R8 for about six months and found it to be one of the best lenses that I have ever used. In my opinion it is a masterpiece in both optical and construction design. Negatives from this lens are distinguishable.

This lens is the only reason that I kept the Leica R8. I am sure that there are many other fine Leica lenses but I preferred my Nikon F 5. It was mentioned recently on the Leica list that Schneider made an adapter for this lens to function on a Nikon mount. I am very happy to report that I have tested the lens on my Nikon and it works beautifully.

Bye-bye R8.

Bob

Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999
From: "Michael L. Pipkin, M.D." [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Russian 16mm Fisheye

I have the 16mm f/2.8 Zenitar in AIS mount, which I purchased from Kalimex last year. It is excellent optically and although I don't use it much (who would use a lens like this much?) it seems to match my Nikkors in contrast and color rendition. It is very compact, well made if not as beautifully finished as a Nikkor, and came with a set of screw in rear filters inclding UV (I think a filter is supposed to be used at all times). Mr Pisarenko was courteously and prompt. I wired payment per his instructions and received a small discount, 3% I think. The lens arrived within a week by airmail with no import tax (I am in Houston, TX).

The Peleng 17mm sounds like a steal but you should make sure it is an auto diaphragm lens if considering it; there was an earlier version of the 16mm fisheye at about that price that was manual diaphragm only.

Michael

From: [email protected] (DWA652)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: can some explain in detail how a tilt shift lens works? please
Date: 28 May 1999

There is a neat site called Merlinger's Photo Books that explains this with moving pictures. I keep a link to it under "Other Photo Info Links" in the Links section of my web page. And I will apologize to all for not posting the exact URL, but I simply do not remember it off the top of my head.

God Bless,

Don Allen
http://www.DonAllen.net
http://members.xoom.com/donallenfoto
Photos + a large set of photo links including my PHOTO BOOK LIST - NOW WITH BOOK REVIEWS!!!!

From: S K CHAN [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Info needed for Schneider 28mm F2.8 Shift Lens for Nikon
Date: Mon, 24 May 1999

AFAIK, this lens is exactly the same as the one offered by Leica for their R series cameras. When this lens was available in other (than Leica ) mounts ( several different mounts were available and had to be specified when ordered ), you cannot order it in Leica mount from Schneider dealers, this might be to make sure you have to pay the Leica price tag for it. The Leica R version had to be ordered through Leica dealers.

For lens specifications, you can check information from Leica R lens listings. Like the older 35 f4 PA Curtagon, I don't know if it is still available in other camera mounts.

Good shooting.....

....

From: Bjorn Rorslett [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Nikon 85 PC needs to be stopped down!
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999

wsff wrote:

> The new  Nikon 85 mm PC lens needs to be stopped down manually! Canon's PC
> lenses work seamlessly since the aperture is electronically controlled. The
> Nikon F mount is showing it's age.

OK - but neither system (canon nor nikon) can reliably meter through the TS lens when it's shifted or tilted. so metering must be manual and exposure either set before adjusting the lens or with an external meter. can't see manually stopping down the lens by rotating a collar on the lens (nikon) or rotating a wheel on the camera body (canon) makes much of a difference.

regards
Bjorn Rorslett
Visit http://www.foto.no/nikon for UV Colour Photography and other Adventures in Nature Photography

Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999
From: Robert Monaghan [email protected]
To: "H�fele Raimund" [email protected]
Subject: Re: Tilt/shift, was Re: Bronica Users SPEAK TO ME

Hi Raimund,

sure, just use a lens in a leaf shutter and its manual operation features; the trick is long enough focal length and enough coverage so it works on 6x4.5 (most 6x6 and 6x9 folder lenses might work, for a trial run, or view camera lenses, also cheap - $20 on up folders or TLR lenses?). You still need a way to mount to ETR - bellows mount adapter such as extension tube or similar adapter? No biggie. A 6x9cm view camera with tilt/shift controls could also be used as the front end of the bronica etr, with prism metering and viewing and roll film use etc.

some leaf shutter lenses have a T setting used for focusing wide open, then you close that when ready to shoot. Next, you need to trigger a bulb or time shot on the body or do a mirror up or whatever your camera uses. Now you trigger the lens (usually a lever to fire on simple shutters/TLRs). If you have a flash synch lens, you get leaf shutter syncro-flash too. Finally, advance the film after the shutter closes, and reopen the T setting and cock the shutter. In practice, a two cable plunger from most bellows/macro setups makes this fairly fast - closes T, triggers body mirror up, and you click the shutter.

the big advantage of the bronica s2/ec is the tilt/shift bellows is standard (although novoflex and spiratone both made 6x6 bellows etc.) and can be used at infinity with regular lenses, unique to s2/ec due to removable focusing mount, and the lenses are able to retain infinity focusing only on the bronica s2/ec if used in a homebrew shift adapter as the removed focusing helical mount provides the space needed for shift adapter mounting and retains infinity focus - only setup that does this.

most of the lenses from view cameras and 6x6 TLRs will be slightly tele e.g. 75mm, so you will probably miss out on wide angle tilt/shift unless you spend big $$ for retrofocus wide angle view camera lenses etc.

however, nikon just came out with a T/S lens in a short tele (85mm) and there are other uses for tilt/shift on macro particulary where slight tele is okay, and some tilt/shift beats none most of the time ;-)

hope this helps - bobm

Raimund wrote:

> I am the owner of a Bronica ETRS. In my opinion, you are right with these
> sentences:
> If you do not own a Bronica S/S2/C/EC series medium format camera, stop reading
> now!!!
> Non-Bronica camera owners may experience severe depression from reading beyond this
> point.
>
> These sentences also fit for Bronica-ETRS users !
> The ETRS doesn't have a focal-plane shutter.
> It doesn't have mirror pre-release.
> Do you see any possibility to use tilt and shift adaptors on an ETRS ?
>
> Raimund
>
> Robert Monaghan wrote:
>
> > see http://www.smu.edu/~rmonagha/bronshift.html on shift lenses etc.
> >
> > virtually any larger format lens can be used on a tilt/shift bellows with
> > needed coverage, esp. for macrophotography
> >
> > older bronica s2/ec used a tilt/shift bellows with all the standard  lenses
> > to provide tilt/shift in macro; with 6x9 or longer format lenses and an adapter
> > you could mount on the various bellows.  It is also cheaper to mount a
> > 6x9cm view camera and lens on front of the medium format camera,  using it as
> > a rollfilm back (thru a hole in a holder etc.) with autoaperture etc. and
> > prism viewing etc.
> >
> > Dr. Zoerk makes some adapters that permit tilt/shift on  35mm and med  fmt,
> > so you can adapt lenses with a fairly compact lizard-eyeball type joint setup
> > but these custom adapters aren't that cheap either and less flexible  than a
> > bellows setup esp for macrowork...
> >
> > this is mainly why it is hard to find tilt/shift etc. custom lenses, as there
> > are so many other less costly ways to get there with a view camera or adapter
> >
> > regards bobm

From: "Spock's Brain" [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Tilt-Shift Lenses
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 1999D

> Nandakumar Sankaran ([email protected]) wrote:
> : Canon is the only company that carries a TS lens in the 35mm line,  that too
> : only for a little more than a year now. This is an idea adapted from the
> : view camera movements.
>
> Quite a bit longer than "little more than a year now." Canon's got three
> tilt shift lenses for it's EOS system:
> TS-E 24mm f/3.5L
> TS-E 45mm f/2.8
> TS-E 90mm f2.8
> All three are manual focus.
>
> Bill Jameson

There is a T/S lens for Minolta AF. You can see it at http://www.arsenal-photo.com/tilt.htm It also comes in all the other mounts, but there it is - a real T/S lens that isn't Canon only.

Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999
From: Edwin Leong [email protected]
Subject: [BRONICA] Tilt/shift adapter for Bronica

Hey Bronisaurs,

I received this reply from Zoerk regarding their tilt/shift adapter for Bronica bodies. From the looks of it, Zoerk is not really crazy about the idea of using it on Bronicas. Looks like I have to get into some kind of homebrew job if I want something cost effective. Oh well. At least he plans on a Bronica to Nikon mount soon so I can at least consider that in the future.

Dear mr. Leong,

Thank you for your interest to our products.

Mount adapter Bronica SQA lens /Nikon we will have in future. Price we think about $ 200,--.. PRO Shift Adapter for Bronica SQA is possible, but it is different to the PRO Shift Adapter for Pentax 645. For Bronica is not good for architecture, because shortest focus length is for infinity focus f=135mm. (Rodenstock APO Sironar f=5.6/135mm ) and this PRO Shift works only in combination with our Mini Macro helix or our Multi Focus system (MFS). On your Bronica you must handle the lens shutter Copal 0 only manual. Then is possible +/- 20mm Shift and 20 degree tilt.

Regards

ZOERK PHOTOTECHNIC

From Nikon Digest:
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999
From: "Pim Stouten" [email protected]
Subject: [NIKON] Re: Tilt/Shift Lens *Relatively* Inexpensive

John,

Yep, the Arsat is quite OK. The only problem is that it's made in Ukraine (the Kiev/Arsenal factory), so product quality is not on such a constant quality level as western lenses. When buying Russian/Ukranian stuff, I always preferred to actually put my hands on the thing I was going to buy, to make sure everything functioned the way it should. The shop you mention seems to be very good. Never dealt with them personally, but heard very positive feedback about them.

I am the happy owner of an Arsat 35mm shift lens for a few months now, and am positively amazed by its quality. Mechanically it's a great lens, as rugged as the good old all-metal Nippon Kogaku ones, it's only fairly heavy, considering its size. Everything on my lens works very smooth, the shift mechansim is a nice piece of mechanical craftsmanship. Optically, it's much better than I expected: great coating, hardly any flare or distortion. I bought mine used, but in mint condition, for just about 190$, at Milan Skoda, my favourite shop in Prague (hardly anybody speaks anything else but Czech, but their collection of used gear [even Nikon] is enormous).

Greatings from cloudy Amsterdam,

Pim

From Bronica Mailing List:
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999
From: Henry Posner/B&H Photo-Video [email protected]
Subject: [BRONICA] Re: bellows attachment

07:55 PM 8/18/99 -0600, you wrote:

>Besides some home brew jobs, are there any other third party makes that
>can do the tilt/shift thing for the current Bronica bodies?

Try http://www.zoerk.com/

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/photo/large/horseman/hvcc.html

and

http://horsemanusa.com/news.html#vcc

for some alternatives. It's too bad none comes in Bronica mounts.

regards,
Henry Posner
Director of Sales and Training
B&H Photo-Video, and Pro-Audio Inc.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com

Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999
From: Martin Taureg [email protected]
Subject: Re: Out of focus effect

At 11:44 15.08.1999 EDT, you wrote:

>I'm glad someone brought it up first; I look at his work on and off, and
>while it has seemed to be mostly an 80mm lens in the past, recently it looks
>like an arc/flex body is being used as the depth of field (or plane of focus)
>is tilted to gain even more "out of focus" effect. As an example, PhotoEye
>sent out a postcard recently advertising an exhibit of his recent works, the
>image on the cover has a child sitting against a wall with "what's in focus"
>being a narrow strip running horizontally across the frame, as if a 4x5 had
>been used with a tilted lens, but the Hasselblad negative frame is there.

For Sinar, and perhaps for some other LF systems, you can get an adapter back which lets you connect your Hasselblad camera body to the LF view camera, using its lens and tilt and shift facilities. Sinar even makes one for Nikon bayonet.

So the neg frame with the two cutouts is not necessarily pointing to an ArcBody.

Regards,
Martin

....

[Ed. note: from Nikon MF Mailing List:
Date: (no date line) [Sun. Oct. 31 1999]
From: Patrick Warnshuis [email protected]
Subject: Tilt/shift bellows

From: "David Bain" [email protected]
Subject: Tilt/shift bellows

I think you need a 135 or 150mm to get infinity focus. A 105 will get you a 3 to 4 meters focus roughly said.

I have a Schneider-kreuznauch 135mm on the PB-4 and it reaches infinity very comfortably.

Note that the PB-4 is a swing/shift mount. To get tilt/shift, you must rotate the entire tripod head with the mount, camera and lens to 90 degrees. You now have the entire system hanging out there so you need a very sturdy tripod head.

I use an FE2 on the PB-4. The protruding grip on the F100 prevents its being mounted so you can flip it for eithe portrait or landscape orienta- tion.

.....patrick
[email protected]

[Ed. note: alternative tricks...]
From: edromney [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: TILT SHIFT LENSES ARE NOT NECESSARY THESE DAYS
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999

TILT SHIFT LENSES ARE NOT NECESSARY THESE DAYS...They are terribly expensive and there are many other ways to do the same job... Some are better. Here are a few:

Method 1. The Adobe Photoshop Program has a perspective control. You surround your digital image in a box, click the perspective control and take the hand tool and drag your image into any shape you wish. On a tall building, shot looking up at it , you simply widen the top of it so as to make the sides parallel. It's easy. Even the simple freebie Photoshop LE will do it.

Method 2...If you were going to take the building with a 35mm TS lens, simply use a 24mm or 20mm instead. Then you can level the camera and simply print the top of the negative and crop the bottom. Color film is now sharp enough so you can do this these days.

Method 3...This is old time. Simply lift your enlarging easel so the bottom of the building or whatever you want to make smaller is nearer. Stop down enough to cover it , or if you have an enlarger with a tilting lensboard you can adjust it to for perfect focus. This does changes the proportions of the object a bit. It will make a tall building taller. This is usually considered good. You do have to do some dodging because the part of the paper nearest the enlarger lens will get more light. This method used to be called Variography.

Method 4. Many small objects look like they need a shift and are out of proportion simply because you shot too close and they are distorted. This is very common with pictures of cameras on Ebay. If you shoot from further away with a 135 or 200mm lens the apparent disortion will be gone and you won't need the costly tilt shift lens to correct for it.

Another consideration: Everyone is so used to TV these days that they no longer protest distorted or WA images as they did 30 yrs ago. I see color real estate books with two storey houses with uncorrected perspective. I don't shoot that way, but you can get away with it.

One admission...Of course the tilt will help to focus an object not parallel to the film plane sharply at a wide aperture, but film is so fast today and tripods do exist, so this is not a very important consideration.

Yes, I had a Canon shift 35mm myself, which I inherited in 1983. I found it useless, sold it very quickly for a good sum of money. All this costly status equipment in photography reminds me of the yuppie guys down here in South Carolina , where it hardly ever snows, who buy costly 4WD Ford Expeditions and Lincoln Navigators. Then they have to put slit skirts on their wives or invest in a foot stool so the ladies can climb in to the silly top-heavy things.

Best wishes... Ed Romney who says," Don't enrich the camera stores...enrich yourself!"

more like this on http://www.edromney.com ...newly revised.

[Ed. note: the silvestri lenses and tilt-shift mounts are an option...]
From: Nobody Nowhere [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Silvestri? Corfield?
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999

For Sivestri try http://www.silvestricamera.com/access1.htm . That will give you access to their models, which are T30, H, and S4.

My interest in Silvestri came from the fact that I wanted an MF camera, with excellent optics (Silvestri use Scheiders, eg one of the lenses is the Super Angulon 47mm, need I say more?), which would also give me a lot of shift to avoid convergence, with the viewfinder showing the image *after* shift. In addition, I did not want a mirror/SLR type of camera (I always lock up the mirror as a matter of course anyway). Silvesty met those criteria, eg there is no mirror, but it is not range-finder- like either, because there is no coupled range-finder for focusing. The camera looks very Spartan, it has only the minimum of parts, and this may or may not appeal to you. It did to me. T30 has a rise/fall of up to 30mm, which is probably nothing to sneeze at. The principle of Silvestri is that the viewfinder is on the plate which holds the lens, so that both move together when the plate rises/falls (simplifying a little). This is a modular design (eg S4 can become also a 4x5). There is a wooden handle (optional), and I did not find the camera too heavy or large, or cumbersome (except perhaps for the S4, in its 4x5 incarnation). Please note that the lens are specially adapted lenses for this particular camera, you could not use ordinary lens with it. The price for the T30, with Super Angulon 47mm, film magazine, special viewfinder (you need that, if you are to take advantage of the rise/fall) came to about, repeat, about, us dollars 5000.-(brand new) (I am afraid). I did not buy it mainly for this reason, and because the lens seemed a little slow, but there are very few 2.8 MF lens... :-( So, apart from touching and playing with the camera in the shop, and fantasizing about it, I have no experience of the silvestri in action. In the end I bought something else, which turned out to be equally expensive (it was inevitable, wasn't it?), and now I am not sure that I should not have bought the sivlestri. I think that it is a very interesting concept and camera, and you might wish to explore this further.

NN

....

From Nikon Mailing List:
Subject: Re: AI ing old Nikkor lens and ZORK Adapter
From: [email protected]
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999

[email protected] writes:

Well, I have a Mamiya 645 and 3 lenses (one of which you mentioned) and although they are fine for the 645 format, I can't imagine why you'd want to use them for 35mm format. I'd bet the Nikkor glass would perform better with the small 35mm negative.

As I understand it, The ZORK adapter (about $225.00) allows you to use Mamiya lenses on both 35 mm and (of course) 645, medium format cameras without having to invest in two sets of lenses for many (but not all) applications. (They makes a whole line of adapters for other 645 lens to 35 mm bodies as well) Could you elaborate on why you think Nikkor glass may be a better performer especially in light of the tremendous savings one might achieve? Also, one could carry much less equipment and shoot both 35 mm and medium format at the same time. ZORK also makes separate Mamiya Lens to Nikon body shift and tilt adapters as well. Would you consider this a potential advantage?

Lastly, How do I research the archives of this list to find a qualified technician to do the AI conversion. I'm guessing there must have been a thread on this at one time or other.

Thanks,

Neil

From Nikon MF Mailing List:
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999
From: Pierlucio Pellissier [email protected]
Subject: Re: Shift & tilt & rock & roll

Duri Koenz wrote:

 >  Would'nt the next logical step be to
> adapt a LF-bellows or even
> to use the 35mm-camera simply as the back of an (old) LF-camera? Anybody
> tried that?

Grant wrote :

> As to the optical quality of LF-lenses:  Yes, center Lines/mm is lower, but
> that reduced sharpness covers a lot bigger area, and it really isn't _that_
> reduced.  My attempts at tilt/shift with a Micro-Nikkor 105/2.8 were so
> poor that I almost threw them out.  The (certainly softer) Wollensak 138/4.5
> Graphic RAPTAR that I use now produces great, sharp, and contrasty images
> with great detail (when I got the DOF placement right).  I wouldn't worry
> on that account.

well well my boys, here you are

I feel like I'm becoming an expert in the field since I've been threading these waters in the last four years of the Nikon Digest. This thing about trying to adapt a PB-4 bellow for ilt & shift has been around for a long time with various results :

1) definitively you can try a) using an enlarger lens with a focal length of 135mm or more via an F to leica thread adapter ( EL to F adapter - Nikon # 2628 Us$ 73.50 +shipping at B&H) or a T2 M39 enlarging accessorie at SRB (srbfilm.co.uk) more expensive or an HAMA adapter (9 sept 1998,(Nikon Digest)).

Various fellows on the list have tried cfr. Curfman, Donald, 11 may 1999 (Nikon Digest) Kenneth Petersen, 11 may 1999, (Nikon Digest) Grant Stewart Goodes, 11 may 1999,(Nikon Digest) James Mc Donald, 11 may 1999,(Nikon Digest) Alan Sugiyama, 4 & 6 Sept 1998 ,(Nikon Digest) and the wonderful Mr. Dave Faulkner ([email protected]) that made the only contaption that couls work.

2) use a 105f4 bellow Nikor, a lens that has beeen designed to fit a bellow, without the helicoid, so you can focus ONLY through the bellow movements.

This bloody lens is quit difficult to find and goes at the outrageous (for me, mind you) price of around US$ 600, I can't understand why) Sometimes you can find a 105f4 for rangefinds Nikon that can be fitted + an adapter, even less easy to find and more expensive ;-(

3) use an Horseman view camera converter+medium format lenses; this one is made on demand, will give you full camera movements and will cost you about US$ 1700 - if I'm not wrong ;-( just for the adapter + the MF glass

4) use a Zork tilt/shift adapter- www.zoerk.com (see above, nearly same specifications)

5)use a Canon TS or Olympus shift, or a Minolta, or Schneider for Leica via the suitable adapter

6) use a FREE EYE orbital shift&tilt adapter+mf lenses as the above - www.freeeye.com US$ 900+ mf lens

7) buy a 28PC or 35PC Nikkor for about 300 to 600 $US and save a lot of hassles.

8) buy a 4x5 camera with the appropriate lenses (around 500 to 1000US$)

The bottom line - at least as I see it- adapting the PB-4 as a shift&tilt camera the idea is nice the implementation of above idea is somewhat difficult, but what the heck, if you enjoy fiddling aroung what's wrong with that! ;-)

I did it, I enjoyed it, I'm still putting my fingers in the grease, and I'm still going nowhere compared to my PC lenses, easier to use, lighter, more compact, etc. etc.

Have fun

Pierlucio in Montreal

Date: Fri Mar 31 2000
rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
From: [email protected] (T Thurston)
[1] Re: Mamiya 645E with 50mm shift lens

I've sampled the 645E for about an hour or so in a store. It's seemed quite well made and I suspect that it would be at least as reliable as my 645 Pro.

I have the 645 50mm shift lens. I have not used it all that much since I bought it, but as long as you stop it down quite a bit (like f22 or so), I haven't seen any problems with light fall off.

It shifts more than I thought it would. I think it's more like 18mm or 19mm or so for shifting a horizontal picture up (which is where I normally use it). The shift is a little less to shift a portrait format picture up. In any case, 18mm shift of a 50mm lens is like a 35mm shift of a 90mm 4x5 lens.

In any case, I'm happy with the 50mm lens. It seems sharp. It's very well built. It works well as long as I remember to manually stop it down before releasing the shutter.

--Tom Thurston

Date: 15 Oct 1999
From: [email protected] (John Sparks)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: How often do you find yourself wanting perspective control?

MHN ([email protected]) wrote:

>I know: it depends on what kind of photography you expect to do, primarily.
>But at this point - I'm a beginner - I like to do a bit of everything:
>landscapes, cityscapes, portraits. I expect I'll get a refined sense of what
>I like once I've gotten further into it, but it would be nice to hear a bit
>more from the more experienced before my first foray into MF/LF.

I use both view cameras and a medium format SLR without swings and tilts. I rarely notice a lack of perspective control with MF unless I'm photographing buildings (and there are ways around it, expecially if you are willing to crop 6x4.5 horizontal from 6x6 or 6x7 vertical photographs, cropping off the bottom is like a front rise). On the other hand, I frequently miss swings and tilts for DOF control. Fairly often, compositions that would easily allow sharpness everywhere with a view camera just cannot be done with medium format even at the smallest stops without something being out of focus.

More than the shift/swing/tilt issues are general handling issues. I find medium format much more loose and spontainious. Where I might expose one sheet of 4x5 or 8x10, I'll expose a whole roll of 120. Some subjects work well with the slow comtemplative approach of a view camera, but others really benifit from exposing lots of film. Using a view camera will be much more of a different approach than you are used to with 35mm. If I could only have one, I'd pick medium format today, but would have picked a view camera 3 years ago and might pick a view camera again 3 years from now.

John Sparks

Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000
From: Harald Finster [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: MF shift lenses useful or not?

"Ralf R. Radermacher" wrote:

> Is a 65 mm shift lens with a shifting range of 10 mm in any way useful
> for 6x6 MF photography or is it a waste of money?
>
> What can it do and where are the limitations?
>
> I'm not expecting the take shots of the World Trade Centre at arms
> length without distorsion.
>
> But would it be possible, as an example, to photograph a structure which
> is 150 feet high, from ground level and a format-filling distance,
> without converging verticals?

Hi,

that depends on the distance!

A 65mm lens with 10mm shift range gives a vertical angle of view as follows

V = 2 * arctan( (56mm/2+10mm) / 65mm ) ~ 60 degrees

without shift it would be

V = 2 * arctan( 56mm/2 / 65mm ) ~ 46 degrees

So, to photograph a 150 feet high structure (building on ground level) you will need a distance of :

Shift:

D = 150feet * (65mm/(56/2+10)) mm ~ 260 feet

'regular 65 mm lens' :

D = 150feet * 65mm/(56/2)mm ~ 350 feet

(56mm is the effective height of the 6x6 format)

Harald

--
Harald Finster

Date: 13 Mar 2000
From: [email protected] (Michael Gudzinowicz)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: MF shift lenses useful or not?

The shift lens is probably less useful than you might expect compared to alternatives, but the results are easy to predict using the simple relationship:

 object_height         image_height
---------------   =    ------------
object_distance        focal_length

or
                       focal_length
object_distance  =     ------------ x  object_height
                       image_height

(The focal length is used rather than extension since the object distance is much greater than the focal length).

Let's say that your building is 156' high, and the camera is 6' from the ground (object_height = 150'). If you want to avoid convergence, the camera back must be vertical, so the middle of the frame or horizon crosses the building at the 6' level.

Without any shift, the maximum image height corresponding to the 150' object height would be 30 mm if we assume the frame is actually 6x6. The camera distance from the building would be 325' using the preceding formula.

With a 10 mm shift, the maximum image height accommodated increases to 40 mm, and the object distance is 244'. So one can get closer (75%) and the linear image size is larger (125%).

I use a 50 or 65 mm lens on a Super 23 with a 6x9 back. With the 65 mm lens, the image height height is 45 mm, distance is 217' (66 % of 325') and the linear image size is 150% of the 6x6 without shift. With the 50 mm lens, image size is the same as with the 65 mm lens, but the working distance is 166' or 51% or the original working distance.

The other alternatives are view cameras, and rigid architectural cameras such as the Silvestri. If I were doing this professionally, I'd use the Silvestri since it is rigid and therefore can maintain exact parallelism between the lens and film plane, and also with the right lenses, it permits you to use nearly all of the frame whether it is roll or sheet film.

Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000
From: "John Stafford" [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: MF shift lenses useful or not?

Ralf R. Radermacher [email protected] wrote

> Sorry, John, I should have mentioned this. Besides the 10 mm shift, the
> lens can be rotated through 360 degrees.

Ralf, ten millimeters rise (and fall) with a 65mm lens on a 6x6 will give you some control, however not as much as another medium format camera - the Silvestri. The Silvestri has a larger format (6x9 to 6x12) plus greater rise and fall, and uses interchangeable lenses from 47mm SA on up. It accomplishes the movements using the body of the camera (at the base of the lens mount) rather than within the lens itself.

It is my personal judgement that 10mm shift for a 65mm is not enough considering the alternatives.

From COntax Mailing List;
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000
From: Chris Duzynski [email protected]
Subject: Re: Hassy/Pentacon fish eyes WAS:Re: [CONTAX] 350mm/f4 for 645

Hello:

I checked with Contax, and they said that the Tilt shift capability of the 645 bellows will not allow any movements that one might prefer for true perspective control (ie. architectural and depth of focus control).

On the Contax web site, they mention TS capability and I got excited, thinking I would have a mini-view in my arsenal. No such luck; only works in macro.

Chris D.

From Contax Mailing List;
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000
From: Lotus M50 [email protected]
Subject: Re: Hassy/Pentacon fish eyes WAS:Re: [CONTAX] 350mm/f4 for 645

Exactly. It is for Macro, not to function as a shift lens for architectural photography. The movements do, however come in handy for macro work.

Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000
From: "Bob Shell" [email protected]
Subject: Re: Hassy/Pentacon fish eyes WAS:Re: [CONTAX] 350mm/f4 for 645

That's because the Contax lenses won't rack back to infinity on the bellows and you lose movement when it is completely collapsed. However there is nothing to prevent you from putting view camera lenses on the front and then using the movements at or near infinity. Probably you would need to make an adapter to hold the view camera lenses if Contax doesn't offer one, but you could make one pretty easily from a spare body cap.

Bob

From Contax Mailing List;
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000
From: John Coan [email protected]
Subject: Hassy/Pentacon fish eyes WAS:Re: [CONTAX] 350mm/f4 for 645

Chris,

You will also be interested to know that Zoerkendoerfer now is shipping their converters for Pentacon Six optics. Cost is about $220 including shipping to the US. I ordered one last week.

I don't know how much you are paying to rent the Hassy fish eye, but you can buy a brand new Ukranian Zodiak MC 30mm fish eye in Pentacon mount for under $200. I have one that I'll be trying out (soon, I hope!). I don't have any illusions that it will perform like the Hassy .... but, the price is certainly right.

John

From: Bruce William Johnson [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: RZ tilt adapter
Date: Fri, 28 May 1999

The Mamiya RZ tilt adapter will work with RZ and RBI lenses but will only focus to infinity with the new short barrel RZ lenses. If it is used with any other lens it will not be able to focus to infinity. For example, if you use it with a standard 110mm lens you can only focus between 8.4 and 19.6 inches. I haven't used the adapter but Mamiya sent me a copy of the brochure.

Bruce W. Johnson

Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000
From: "Dave Pearman" [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Movements and Medium Format

> Are there other medium format cameras which have movements?
> If so, are they also expensive?

Yes, there are others. The Hasselblad ArcBody and Flexbody have rise and tilt. The Rollei SL66 range have tilt, and the Fuji GX680 has rise/fall, shift, and tilt/swing. Sadly, none of these are cheap... another alternative is to use a 5x4-inch camera with a roll film back. This can be very cheap, but isn't as convenient as an SLR. Silvestri makes fixed body cameras with movements.

After trying or owning most of these options, I've settled on the Fuji. The current GX680 III costs a packet, but you can buy the original Mark I and II models much more cheaply used. Once you've got the camera, ALL of the lenses (50mm to 500mm) work with movements.

You'll find many postings about all these cameras at the Medium Format Digest:

http://photo.net//bboard/q-and-a.tcl?topic_id=35&topic=Medium%20Format%20Dig est

Hope this helps!

Dave.

Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000
From: "Rick Rieger" [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Movements and Medium Format

Rod,

I believe you are speaking of the bellows attachment for the Mamiya 645 series. I bought one of these used two years ago for $500 and had it altered so that it would fit on a Nikon SLR and allow either Copal 0 view camera lenses on the front, or Nikon 35mm lenses. Kirk Enterprises sold me the custom made pieces needed. With a Schneider 135mm APO view camera lens, I can focus from infinity to about 1/2 life size with movements at all points inbetween. The Schneider provides very good resolution, however I suspect any modern view camera lens in the 135-150 range would do well also.

If you can find one of these bellows units used like I did, the price is a little more acceptable. It can be adapted to fit on most any camera with focal plane shutter. It is a very nice unit offering a fairly wide range of front standard movements.

Rick R.

R123 [email protected] wrote

I recently visited a local camera shop and learned a bit about an attachment for Mamiya cameras which gives the photographer the ability to use different movements, i.e., shifts and tilts. Great! The problem is that it is a $1500 attachment! Are there other medium format cameras which have movements? If so, are they also expensive?

Thanks in advance for the help

Rod

From Medium Format Digest:
From: [email protected]
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 93 14:01:18 EST
Subject: Mini-view camera - sort of

The following was posted to rec.photo some months ago. It describes how I converted my Mamiya 645 S to a mini-view camera by adapting the macro bellows unit. Several people have asked me about limitations of the system. Although this may not be the solution for everyone, I still find it quite useful. The primary limitation is that longer (barrel) lenses must be used. I use a 135mm, the lower limit might be around 100mm. (Assuming you want to focus to infinity - otherwise just use your Mamiya lenses.)

Also, even though the reflex system simplifies some of the work, you should know what you are getting into with operating a view camera system. The fastest lenses you will find are probably about f5.6. (Not too bad with reflex viewing of the SLR based system, but difficult for my old eyes with a ground glass and hand held magnifier on a typical view camera.) And of course you still need to remember to stop the lens down to take the shot (easy to forget), and open the lens back up to check or re-composed (hard to forget :-}).

Here's the original post [headers edited - HR]...

Newsgroups: rec.photo
From: [email protected] (timothy.j.lipetz)
Subject: Mamiya 645 View Camera (sort of)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 21:57:53 GMT

A MAMIYA 645 VIEW CAMERA (sort of)

Since there has been so much discussion of the benefits of tilt and rise lately, I thought I'd describe what I have been doing with it lately.

I have a Mamiya 645 Super. In addition to the usual method of operation I also use it as a mini-view camera. I've wanted to do this ever since I saw that that the bellows unit has swing, tilt, rise and shift on the front standard.

Because of the room in the camera body for the mirror swing plus the size of the standards, Mamiya lenses can only be used on the bellows at close-up distances (after all that is why they sell a bellows unit.) I figured I could put a barrel lens (aperture control but no shutter or focusing control.) on it and have a fairly useful view camera. (Remember the M645 has a focal plane shutter.) I've done it and it works extremely well.

In addition to the bellows unit (new $900, I found it used for $350), all I needed was a body cap and a lens. Of course, I drilled out the body cap and mounted the lens in it thereby allowing the assembly to be mounted like an ordinary lens (except, of course, there is no aperture coupling so I do have to stop down manually before each shot and through the lens metering is not quite as useful as with my other lenses although it is still possible. - in any case I use a spot meter.)

I get all the advantages of the lens movements, and yes tilt is wonderful. I also use a fair amount of drop (front tilt plus drop plus tilting the whole camera up gives the equivalent of back tilt.) Plus I get the advantages of roll film and polaroid backs, plus all the safety interlocks (no more pulling out the film holder before the dark slide is in.) Plus I have my choice of ground glass viewing with the folding lens hood, or prism viewing. Plus the image is right side up. Plus I have an accurate electronically controlled shutter with up to 1/1000 sec (Okay, so I usually shoot long exposures.) Plus, when I want to do last minute (or between bracketing) checks of focus or composition, I only need to flip up and down my mirror lock-up and maybe open up the aperture, compared to using a view or technical camera {put in dark slide, pull out film holder, maybe replace ground glass, open lens shutter, maybe open lens aperture, adjust and climb under dark cloth, reset aperture, cock the shutter, maybe remove ground glass, put in film holder, remove darkslide, (and ask myself what did I forget this time :-)) } And best of all when I switch from view camera photography to medium format on a tripod photography, to hand-held-power-winder-auto-exposure-shoot-a-moving-target photography, I continue to work with a system that I am familiar and comfortable with.

About the only limitation on the approach is that I am limited to somewhat longer lenses. The film plane to front standard on a closed up bellows is about 100mm. Since I want some movements even at infinity, and most lenses mount with the rear nodal point somewhat ahead of where the body cap naturally fits, about 120mm is the lower limit for a lens.

I am using a Schneider Componon S 135mm f5.6.

Yes, that's right. It's an enlarging lens. (and a pretty good one at that!). It is also a modern design multi-coated flat-field barrel lens with an image circle big enough for a 4x5 negative. Which makes it ideal for my 645 view camera. Only under the most extreme movements do I have to worry about coverage. I was a little concerned about how well it would perform at infinity, since I have heard that enlarging lenses are optimized for a 1:6 ratio. I didn't have to worry. I have some 16x20s from my first two rolls of Agfa Ultra that are wonderful.

Anyhow, I thought some people might be interested in this fairly successful experiment. I think that it is also a nice reminder that manufacturers can not be all things to all photographers, and that we can use what they sell as a starting point and then build and customize from there. In fact, if you look at old photo magazines, there were more questions like, "How can I build a ... ?" and less like "Which ... should I buy?"

In this case building it myself was extremely easy. Figuring out that I could assemble it easily from available parts was the fun part.

Timothy Lipetz
[email protected]
(614)848-3614

rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
From: [email protected] (George Pappas)
[1] Re: 120 SHIFT?
Date: Thu Apr 20 08:04:23 CDT 2000

I have a Galvin 6x9 mini-view camera that I use with 120 Mamiya rollfilm backs. I had Steve Grimes mount an old Pentax 6x7 magnifying hood on the rear focusing screen the it works great: fluid focusing, small size, full movements. The camera weighs 3 pounds and travels easily. You can find a base Galvin on Ebay for around 500 not including lenses.

Best Regards,

George

[Ed. note: need an interchangeable mount Shift lens???]
Date: Tue, 16 May 2000
From: "Bob Shell" [email protected]
Subject: Re: [CONTAX] Re: Schneider 28mm PC

The Schneider 28mm PC lens has a mount which can be removed by loosening three screws (hex head). Schneider makes mounts for most SLR cameras. They also make extension tubes which can go between the lens and the mount, and a special front mount to use with these tubes and their enlarging lenses for macro work. This whole systems of mounts and tubes is not well known, and I just happen to have a set right now that Schneider loaned me last year and am putting together an article about it all.

Bob

...

Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000
From: Charlie Dilks [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.technique.misc,rec.photo.misc
Subject: Re: Changing the focus plane on 35mm

Richard Knight at [email protected] wrote on 6/25/00 5:04 AM:

> While out shooting with a local camera club I wanted to do some macro but
> only had a Nikon body with 50mm lens and off-camera flash setup. I tried to
> reverse the lens and tape it to the body with duct tape. Didn't have enough
> hands to hold everything steady so I couldn't make it work without a tripod.
> Since then I've been wondering if I could tilt a lens (stopped all the way
> down) with a flexible attachment between the lens and body to change the
> focal plane like on a large format camera. Would the difference in distance
> to the film plane be compensated by the smaller aperture and still keep the
> image in focus? I don't think the effect would be the same as a PC lens. Any
> thoughts on this?

I have a Spiratone SST (swing, shift, tilt), bought around 15 years ago. It's just like a tiny view camera set up, but the 35 mm camera body goes on the back.

You run into the coverage problems mentioned in other posts. When I was fooling with it and had read the instructions I wound up with the following lens. Kodak Anastigmat f 4.5 to 32, 161 mm. There's no shutter in it and I don't know what "type" of lens it is. This gave the ability for some movements. It was interesting to play with and it worked.

--
Charlie Dilks Newark, DE USA

[Ed.note: probably long sold by now, but useful info on Nikon bellows...]
From: "C.L.Zeni" [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.marketplace.35mm
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000
Subject: FS: Nikon PB-4 bellows

Tilt/shift bellows. Excellent condition - no wear on bellows or crackle finish parts, tiny amount of wear on one of the racks. No box, instructions or caps.

EXTENSION RANGE OF 43mm-185mm
GEARED REAR STANDARD
GEARED FRONT STANDARD
GEARED TRIPOD MOUNTING STAGE
FRONT STANDARD SWING OF +/- 25�
FRONT STANDARD SHIFT OF +/- 10mm

I bought the PB-4 to photograph model railroad equipment...turns out that the magnification is well above what I need and that I can do what I need to do with a Nikkor 55/2.8.

$250.00 postpaid in the USA.
Email me at address below.

--
Craig Zeni - REPLY TO -->> clzeni at mindspring dot com
http://www.mindspring.com/~clzeni/index.html
http://www.trainweb.org/zeniphotos/zenihome.html

From: "Grandpaparazzo" [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000
Subject: Re: hybrid 6x6 viewcamera was Re: Hasselblad back to 4x5

If you attach a view camera in place of the lens of a medium format camera, as I did with my Pentax 67, you may run into the same problem I did, vignetting. The circular lens mount of the SLR body acts as a sort of bottleneck, severely restricting the use of movements and longer focal lengths. Shorter focal lengths (say 400mm) without movements work fine.

[Ed. note: the panfield cameras are interesting for architectural types etc..]
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000
From: "Elton Pope-Lance" [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.large-format
Subject: Re: Architectural photography (was: Am I Insane?)

Hi Pam and all,

I am a former Panfield owner and can offer a small bit of insight. The camera was designed and built by Andrew Meintjes in Johannesburg, South Africa (and, at one time, Germany) as a tool for the architectural specialist. AFAIK, there was no initial design input from Ezra Stoller. I purchased mine dirrectly from Andrew in the early 90's when he was on his first promotional trip to the US. He made the trip with the specific intent of showing it to architectural specialists, the ESTO staff being a primary stop. Two of their photographers bought the camera, as well as myself and another Boston-based architectural specialist. We special-ordered several different configurations and offered some design thoughts which were then implemented in the cameras we received. This may have been the level of Ezra's input, if any, as well.

It is an interesting sort of hybrid. The double fold neoprene bellows is very nice. It will focus a 47mm on a flat board and allow for adequate movement for the coverage the lens provides (even the XL). There is no need for a recessed board. Mine was the "standard" camera which would focus a 150mm lens to 1 meter without adding the rear extension, extra standard, and extra bellows. At least one of the ESTO guys bought a "long" version which would focus the 210mm lens to 1 meter without modification. I found this to be too long a camera to transport easily and preferred the shorter model. There is no way to easily remove the rails for transport. The camera stays in a rigid "L" configuration. It was/is supplied *without* a ground glass back or extra bellows for longer lenses. Sinar or Horseman parts are compatible and must be purchased separately. I used Horseman since I don't own Sinar and they worked well.

The focus mechamism is a friction device which was very smooth when new, but became uneven and difficult to lock when the friction mechanism wore through the anodizing on the rear rails. I heard talk several years ago of a geared modification but don't know if it ever became available. To his credit, Andrew sent a replacement rail for mine with no problem other than the wait to have it shipped from Johannesburg. I had to find and pay a machinist to install it. As the camera aged, I became uncomfortable being so dependent on a single source so far away. Communication became difficult. A friend developed light leaks at the rear of the bellows and was promised a replacement which never arrived.

I found the camera difficult to use in a position other than horizontal because I had to "assist" the front standard to offset the effects of gravity. Thgis meant that focussing took two hands. Also, the focus lock sometimes would not hold firmly. The focus is only on the rear, as the front "L" attachment to the rails is fixed, unless you have the auxiliary mounting block. The attachment of the rail extension, additional rear standard, and additional bellows is a bit cumbersome and "fiddley" for field use.

In a nutshell, I liked the camera for architecture and most field use. It IS a specialized tool, however, and not particularly well-suited for the studio. I decided some time ago to sell it and my studio monorail and replace both with a single camera which would be more suitable for a mix of architecture, field, and light studio use. My Boston friend with the light leaks has done the same.

Just my personal $.02!

Elton
--
Elton Pope-Lance
www.popelance.com

...

From: [email protected] (VILNTFLUID)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.large-format
Subject: Re: Architectural photography (was: Am I Insane?)
Date: 31 Aug 2000

Pam

A suitable alternative to the Panfield is the Ebony 23 SW or the Walker Titan XL. Check out their website

http://www.ebonycamera.com

Keith

Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: medium format perspective control

given that i've already got a 500CM, 50, 80, 150mm lenses, 3 backs, what's the best way to correct converging verticals on my photos?

1. flexbody - drawback: very limited shift (5mm to 14mm)

2. arcbody - drawback: need new optics

3. pc-mutar - drawback: makes my lenses 70, 112 and 210mm, also only 16mm shift

4. its an intractible problem

5. another solution?

i am not knowledgable about camera movements. i assume that a 28mm shift (1/2 the 56mm image height) is the ultimate needed to correct converging verticals on any subject at the same groundlevel as the camera, given that you are using a focal length and distance sufficient to cover the subject in the negative.

i like the idea of a single system which can be used for both hand-held and tripod photos, especially when travelling.

i look forward to your collective informed opinions. thanks,

-rei

From: [email protected] (OorQue)
Date: 26 Aug 2000
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: medium format perspective control

>5. another solution?

I bought a used Galvin view camera, a used Graflex back and a used Grandagon 58mm/f5.6 lens ... although I bought them separately and a few years ago at that, the total I paid for all three pieces was around $700. Perhaps not the ultimate solution but certainly a cheap one!

Jeffrey Goggin
Scottsdale, AZ.

Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000
From: Harald Finster [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: medium format perspective control

Hi,

the following site gives an excellent comparison between different 'shift-camera-systems' (unfortunately it is in German)

http://www.profifoto.de/artikel/shiftk.html

[email protected] wrote:

> given that i've already got a 500CM, 50, 80, 150mm lenses, 3 backs,
> what's the best way to correct converging verticals on my photos?
>
> 5. another solution?

I had the same problem a few years ago.

I did also consider the PC-shift mutar, but the exorbitant price... My solution was to get a Technikardan S 9x12 (cm) with a roll-film back.

Also an expensive system, but much more versatile compared to the mutar. And I liked the idea to shoot large format. You may also get the smaller 6x9 version, which allows to adapt Hassi backs.

(I got contradicionary information from Linhof vs Linhof representatives, if the Hassi back adapter is also available for the Technikardan 9x12)

> i like the idea of a single system which can be used for both 
> hand-held and tripod photos, especially when travelling.

I can't suggest any 'single system' for Hassi unfortunately.

Harald

Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000
From: "ZHANNA" [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Contax 645 news from Photokina??

I just returned from Photokina and have with me new tilt/shift lens for Contax 645. I bought two of them to show for my friend which is deal with architectural photography.

New, very clean and perfect lens; excellent photos. Box, caps and instruction with full 1 year warranty included.

Its 45mm, f:3.5 all-elements-multicoated lens, 8 elements/7 groups; bought in Photokina exhibition, Cologne, Germany. All for US$999.

=========
shift movement range - 12 mm with 360� rotation;
tilt range - 0 to 8� with 360� rotation;
rotation angle - 360 deg.;
resolution 50/22 lp/mm with opened aperture
resolution 90/60 lp/mm with closed aperture
=========
aperture range - 3.5-22;
angle of view - 83� (98�).

If interested please contact [email protected]

Thanks,

Zhanna

...

Tilt/Swing Vario-flex II with 65mm f/6.8 Angulon Lens
Photo Courtesy of Samuel Tang - Thanks for Sharing!

Mr Monaghan,

I bumped into your site on lenses a little while ago and am still exploring its very interesting content. I would, if I may, like to add some additional information on a few issues:

1. The Varioflex, or Vario-Flex from Austria was not only a lens mount, and was produced in two versions. I have an example of the Vario-Flex II with Angulon 65mm/6.8, in focussing mount, equipped with swing/tilt movement as well. While the maximum amount of shift is greater than lenses by other makers, one must bear in mind that the rigid construction of the reflex housing inside a SLR camera will indeed be the final limitation. The incorporation of swing/tilt is, in my experience, quite necessary.

2. I have used the Sima SF lens and found that it can be improved somewhat: the inside wall of the lens barrel is very glossy and produce a lot of flare, and by lining it with self-adhesive flock paper will indeed make the result a lot better. Of course, ideally the lens element should be removed and the inside wall sand-blasted, and then painted with a dead black, however the lens element was locked inside the barrel making removal impossible without damaging it, so flock paper it has to be.

3. The Sima lens can be considered as a more recent incarnation of soft-focus lenses of the Spencer Port-Land category, I have an example of 9"/4.5 specification and use it on the 4"X5" format, and also used one by Kershaw of Leeds many years ago. The Rodenstock Imagon can be considered as a lens of similar type, and instead of using a normal central-aperture diaphragm it employs a multi-aperture washer-stop instead. When I have the time I will try to make some calculations so as to make a couple fo Imagon-type washer-stops for the Sima and see what happens.

4. A often overlooked weird lens is the Noflexar 35mm/3.5 by Novoflex: normally supplied in M42-mount, it looks like a low-end lens with pre-set diaphragm, but its optical unit can be pulled out of the helicoid in four click-stopped stages, which enables it to have a continuous focussing range from infinity to life-size magnification.

If you are interested I can also supply illustrations of these lenses.

Thank you very much for your hard work putting this interesting site together.

All the best,

Samuel Tang.

[Ed. note: special thanks to Mr. Tang for sharing this update on the Varioflex models!...]
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000
From: Samuel Tang [email protected]
To: Robert Monaghan [email protected]
Subject: More info on lenses

Hi Mr Monaghan,

Thank you for posting my message on your site. I have spent the last two minutes looking for additional information on the Vario-Flex lens and there are two pieces in Popular Photography, January 1969 and September 1970 with information on it, written by Bob Schwalberg and Edward Meyer respectively. Here is a brief precis:

The Varioflex, or Varioflex was produced by Atzmuller & Rendl of Linz, Austria, and designed over a number of years by Herr Atzmuller. Launched at the 1968 photokina, it was shown in two versions, I and II, and they differed by the amount of swing allowed, but the II also allowed an additional 25mm shift. Either unit was equipped with 65/6.8 Angulon or 100/5.6 Symmar for 35mm cameras, and for 6X6 cameras, 90/6.8 Angulon or 135/5.6 Symmar.

Vytron Co. became the US agent for the Varioflex some time in 1970, but at the time of introduction the 6X6 versions were not introduced; in fact I cannot find any information on whether the 6X6 versions were ever produced.

Officially, the lens was called "Scheimpflug Objektiv Vario-Flex"; I have an example of version II with Angulon, and it is huge. However, it is a very fine lens to use as long as the maximum movements allowed by the physical dimension of the camera's dark chamber has been previously determined.

.....

All the best,

Sam.

Varioflex with 90mm lens - nifty photos courtesy of Tan Kah Heng - Thanks!

Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001
From: TAN KAH HENG [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Boyer Varioflex pictures

Tan notes that his varioflex uses a 90mm f6.8 Boyer Beryl, and he uses a Pentacon 6 mount.

[Ed. note: due to difficulties with file format decoding and attachments, I am sorry to report I haven't been able to recover a functional file in either Photoshop or Photo Editor ;-( ] Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001
From: TAN KAH HENG To: [email protected]
Subject: Hartblei shift 45mm

Bob

I thought you'd like to have some pictures of the Hartblei 45mm shift lens as well. I bought this instead of the tilt shift version because it's faster to use in real life - there is hardly time to tilt!

It comes with a Pentacon 6 mount and I got a M645 adapter with it.

The multi coatings are extremely high quality and any marks you see are just dust though, there are one or two artifacts on the front with some pinpoint sized dirt that can't come off - so QC still isn't up to Jap or German quality.

The 0-12 markings on the side tell you how much you have shifted in mm.

The tab prong that sticks out frees the lens group to turn for shifting in any exist, though there are click stops.

BTW, feel free to use these photos as well as those for the Varioflex on your website. Just put my name there - TAN KAH HENG

Cheers
KH

rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
From: "vrf" [email protected]
[1] Hartblei--any experiences good or bad
Date: Wed Nov 29 2000

Hartblei in the Czech Republic manufactures lenses for medium format cameras. They make a shift/tilt lens that works with the Contax 645 that sounds useful. Anyone have ANY experience with this company? Thanks

[Ed. note: another piece of info on above tilt/shift...]
rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
From: Lotus M50 [email protected]
[1] Hartblei (Technoplan) 45mm/3.5 Tilt-Shift "Super Rotator" lens
Date: Mon Jan 08 2001

Does anyone have any experience with the Hartblei 45mm/3.5 Tilt-Shift "Super Rotator" lens? It is also called the "Technoplan" when sold by Weise Fototechnik in Germany. The Technoplan was the version introduced at Photokina last year. It is available in Mamiya 645 and Contax 645 mounts as well as Pentacon 6 lens mount. The lens got very good notices during photokina, and a couple of large photo companies were interested in the lens. Quite a number have been sold.

If anyone does have experience can they give us some feedback on image quality (is it as sharp as they claim?), sharpeness, etc? Build quality? Have you had any mechanical problems with it, etc.

I would appreciate any feedback and comments on this lens.

Thanks

From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000
Subject: Re: PC 'Shift' Lens for Nikon?

I have the 35mm PC lens. It shifts up to 11mm side-to-side, or 8mm up/down. If you shift it to the max to one side and then the other, and stitch the pictures together, it's covering the same angle of view as a 21mm lens. Likewise up and down. It can't quite reach the corners of the frame that a 21mm lens would reach, however. (You could achieve similar perspective results as the 35mm PC lens by using a 21mm lens and cropping, but you'd be wasting much of your negative area that way).

I'm not sure of the shift limits of the 28mm PC lenses (there are two versions, f3.5 and f4). They'll obviously cover a wider angle in total though.

But if a conventional 35mm lens covers your normal subjects from the vantage point where you normally shoot, then the 28mm would force you to move closer to fill the frame. Moving closer will require more rise movement to counter the converging lines. So maybe the 35mm lens is for you.

Don't forget that you can play tricks with PhotoShop to achieve much of the same effect as the PC lenses. There's a slight cost in resolution, though.

And yes, the 85mm t/s lens is a very different beast, and it isn't ideal for architecture. With most buildings, you can't back up enough to put the whole building in the field of view of an 85mm lens before something else obstructs your view. Unlike the wideangle PC lenses, the 85mm lens tilts, which is useful for close-up photography when you want your depth of field to be in a plane that's tilted to the film plane.

--Rich

"Joel Rittvo" [email protected] wrote:

> I would like to pick up a used perspective control lens for an
> older Nikon body.  It will be used for architectural subjects.
> I had been leaning towards one of the 35mm versions because of
> cost and that it's a focal length I use often.  I had a quick
> look through the Nikon Lens book at the book store today
> (Magic Lantern I think) and if I read it correctly, they
> say that the correction range of the 35 is very limited compared
> to the 28, due to the overall size of the image thrown onto
> the negative.  I guess the 28 projects a larger "raw" circle
> which allows more useful "framing" options.
>
> Am I getting this right?

Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000
From: Tony Polson [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: PC 'Shift' Lens for Nikon?

....

Joel,

I've recently purchased a used 35mm f/2.8 PC-Nikkor and have made some calculations of viewing angles for the 35mm and 28mm versions. I have also calculated the equivalent focal length of a wide angle lens that would give sensibly the same viewing angles above the horizontal as the PC-Nikkors. This shows that the 35mm f/2.8 PC-Nikkor has a very worthwhile correction range in my opinion.

The figures are calculated from elementary trigonometry and are calculated for lenses of precisely 35.00mm (or 28.00mm) focal length focused at infinity and for an image area of precisely 36.00 x 24.00mm with the camera body untilted. I have allowed for a maximum vertical shift of 8mm (landscape format) and 11mm (portrait format) for both 35mm and 28mm lenses. I have calculated the angles of view as vertical rather than diagonal, because vertical angles are what I understand best: the diagonal angle of view of a lens is only of theoretical interest in my opinion.

35mm PC Nikkor - used in landscape format
*****************************************

Unshifted:
Vertical angle of view (unshifted) = 18.92 degrees above the horizontal
Vertical angle of view (unshifted) = 18.92 degrees below the horizontal

Using the maximum 8mm vertical shift:
Vertical angle of view (8mm shift) = 29.74 degrees above the horizontal
Vertical angle of view (8mm shift) =  6.52 degrees below the horizontal

The focal length of the equivalent WA lens that provides
a view of 29.74 degrees above the horizontal is 21.00mm.

35mm PC-Nikkor - used in portrait format
****************************************

Unshifted:
Vertical angle of view (unshifted) = 27.22 degrees above the horizontal
Vertical angle of view (unshifted) = 27.22 degrees below the horizontal

Using the maximum 8mm vertical shift:
Vertical angle of view (11mm shift) = 39.64 degrees above the horizontal
Vertical angle of view (11mm shift) = 11.31 degrees below the horizontal

The focal length of the equivalent lens that provides
a view of 35.54 degrees above the horizontal is 21.72mm.



28mm PC-Nikkor - used in landscape format
*****************************************

Unshifted:
Vertical angle of view (unshifted) = 23.20 degrees above the horizontal
Vertical angle of view (unshifted) = 23.20 degrees below the horizontal

Using the maximum 8mm vertical shift:
Vertical angle of view (8mm shift) = 35.54 degrees above the horizontal
Vertical angle of view (8mm shift) =  8.13 degrees below the horizontal

The focal length of the equivalent lens that provides
a view of 35.54 degrees above the horizontal is 16.80mm.

28mm PC-Nikkor - used in portrait format
****************************************

Unshifted:
Vertical angle of view (unshifted) = 32.74 degrees above the horizontal
Vertical angle of view (unshifted) = 32.74 degrees below the horizontal

Using the maximum 11mm vertical shift:
Vertical angle of view (11mm shift) = 46.01 degrees above the horizontal
Vertical angle of view (11mm shift) = 14.04 degrees below the horizontal

The focal length of the equivalent lens that provides
a view of 46.01 degrees above the horizontal is 17.38mm.

So, in summary, the 35mm PC-Nikkor provides the equivalent view above the horizontal of a 21mm wide angle lens. The 28mm PC-Nikkor provides the equivalent view above the horizontal of a 17mm wide angle lens.

In both cases the advantage of using the PC-Nikkor instead of the 21mm or 17mm equivalents is that the PC-Nikkor uses more of the image area on the film. The equivalent wide angles will waste approximately one third of the image area on the film. However, composition may demand inclusion of foreground items below the lens axis, and in this case the wide angle lens *may* be a better choice than the PC-Nikkor.

The operation of the PC-Nikkors is very different to using "normal" lenses. The 35mm and 28mm lenses are manual focus and have pre-set diaphragms that have no connection to the camera body's built in meter. You focus at full aperture, then select a suitable aperture for the exposure, then let the camera's meter help you choose a shutter speed by stopping down the iris diaphragm to the pre-set aperture. Then, and only then, do you shift the lens.

There are several disadvantages to using PC-Nikkors:

My early 35mm f/2.8 (1974-5 vintage) PC-Nikkor has apertures that click at full f-stops only. Whilst it is theoretically possible to stop down to an intermediate aperture the loose stop down ring discourages this.

Choosing the correct exposure is problematic as TTL metering must take place with the lens unshifted; if the lighting varies with the change on view (as often happens with buildings!) there will be an error, so exposure bracketing is a wise precaution. Alternatively, use a separate light meter. In my view it's worth scanning the building with the camera and unshifted lens or the separate light meter to decide your choice of exposure *before* setting up the camera on the tripod. Checking focus is difficult once the lens has been shifted and the diaphragm has been stopped down. Make sure the lens you buy has a good, stiff focusing ring to avoid the risk of inadvertently changing focus.

Finally, if you are considering using a PC-Nikkor as a substitute for a normal 35mm or 28mm wide angle lens, forget it! They are far too inconvenient to use all the time.

Hope this helps!

--
Tony Polson, North Yorkshire, UK

From Nikon Mailing List;
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000
From: Pierlucio Pellissier [email protected]
Subject: [NIKON] Re: shifting lenses

Hello Christmas nikoneers

for those who are interested in shifting their lenses, PC style ( this is especially for Robert Monaghan and his vast knowledge of PC, thanks), check out :

http://www.freeeye.com/

this seems to be a good alternative to the Zorki system. Well, it seems to function even of the Coolpix but you have to have access to medium format lenses.

It was devised by Giancarlo Gardin, a very good italian photographer that I knew mainly for his work on architect Carlo Scarpa.

Enjoy

Pierlucio in Montreal

Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000
From: Pierlucio Pellissier [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: shifting lenses

Hello Robert

I think that this should be added to your vast knowledge of shifting lenses, check out :

http://www.freeeye.com/

this seems to be a good alternative to the Zorki system. Well, it seems to function even of the Coolpix but you have to have access to medium format lenses.

It was devised by Giancarlo Gardin, a very good italian photographer that I knew mainly for his work on architect Carlo Scarpa.

Enjoy and happy holydays

Pierlucio in Montreal

From Hasselblad Mailing List:
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001
From: Frank Filippone [email protected]
Subject: RE: Arc body discontinued?

Yes. Zork... does do a PC lens using a ball joint as the element....it uses a 120-150 or so enlarging lens.... cost is $2K..... a bit high for machined plumbing parts....

I think he also does the mamiya swap... but it also is rather $$$

There is a Hartblei version of a 55 that is supposed to work with a mount change for the 2000/200..... but seeing one seems impossible....and I think it does limited shift....

The basic problem with the Hassy mount is the depth of the body, and the relatively small lens mount hole....you can't get too far away and do shifts without also getting vignetting from the lens mount....maybe a LF lens, a small LF lens, could work better.....

Thanks for confirming the story on the PCS Schneider lens.....I only wish.... one has been on Ebay for a while at $2K..... wrong mount for me....

Frank Filippone
[email protected]

The 55 mm Schneider PCS Super Angulon was available for Exakta 66 too.

From: [email protected] (Willem-Jan Markerink)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Date: Sun, 04 Mar 01
Subject: Re: Surgery to add swings & tilts to RB??

Frank Calidonna [email protected] wrote:

>> The Horseman is a nice approach but when the unit comes out 2400  dollars
>> is a fair amount of cash. If it were my project to build I would look  at
>> a less expensive 4x5 with Rollfilm back and make the lens board accept
>> the Mamiya Mount. That has been done.  The trick is finding a destroyed
>> Mamiya for the lensmount...
>
> Might a bayonet mount back cap for an RB lens with some good epoxy do   the trick? A
> whole lot cheaper (and easier to obtain) than a trashed RB/RZ
>
>    Frank      Rome, NY

All you need is a spare part from one of the macro extension tubes....about US$50 I recall. With screws included, I could mount mine on a Graflex 4x5" board quite easily (the Graflex came with an adapter that might have been used for something similiar, as it had a very large diameter opening, mysteriously enough *exactly* the size I needed (but without screw holes)).

--
Bye,
Willem-Jan Markerink

From ROllei Mailing List;
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Rollei] Scheimpflug

Hi

You can start with this one by Harold M. Merklinger

The Scheimpflug rule diagram is sketched there

http://fox.nstn.ca/~hmmerk/HMbooks3.html#SRpic

Additional info in the most valuable web site on large format photography

http://www.ai.sri.com/~luong/photography/lf/how-to-focus.html
http://www.ai.sri.com/~luong/photography/lf/scheimpflug.jpeg
(there you even get the mathematical proof extra ;-)

--
Emmanuel BIGLER

From Kiev88 Mailing LIst;
Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001
From: Kevin Kalsbeek [email protected]
Subject: Re: hartblei shift lens report

Hi,

You might want to check the Kiev Report site:

http://www.delphi.com/kievreport/messages/?msg=575%2E12

There should be info in the lens section. just click on the lens header to get more messages. As I recall, the 45 T/S was considered excellent.

Regards,

Kevin

Christophe Mincke wrote:

>         Does someone know about an independant report of the Hartblei
> shift lenses (45mm shift or tilt-shift)? I am interested in buying
> one, but I'd prefer to be first sure about the quality... I own a
> Mamiya M645...

From hasselblad mailing list:
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001
From: Frank Filippone [email protected]
Subject: 55 Schneider Super Angulon PC in Hassy Mount

I just heard back from Schneider... the lens was never made in Hasselblad (200/2000) Mount.

So there is and never was a Tilt and Swing Hasselblad (200/2000) lens made that can be identified.

Frank Filippone
[email protected]

From hasselblad mailing list:
Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001
From: "Q.G. de Bakker" [email protected]
Subject: Re: 55 Schneider Super Angulon PC in Hassy Mount

Frank Filippone wrote:

> I just heard back from Schneider... the lens was never made in  Hasselblad
> (200/2000) Mount.

No, just Rollei, Exakta, and, i believe, Bronica.

> So there is and never was a Tilt and Swing Hasselblad (200/2000) lens   made
> that can be identified.

Hasselblad has elected to go with the PC-Mutar first, because they believed it the better option than the Schneider, or a similar lens. Then they tried the Flexbody, using the normal Zeiss lenses. Not a lot of shift available. And then came the Arcbody, a completely new system, except for the filmbacks.

I hope there will be a shift tilt lens, like the Schneider, available in Hasselblad mount soon. But then, it will certainly cost too much...

From Hasselblad Mailing List:
Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001
From: Frank Filippone [email protected]
Subject: RE: 55 Schneider Super Angulon PC in Hassy Mount

Well, the FlexBody is a $3000 box, no optics. The ARC Body costs $5+K and requires different optics. A 1.4PC Mutar has a teleconverter built in and costs $2000 and does not tilt. The Zork thing costs $2500 and you get to use a Rodenstock enlarging lens. There is no solution and they are all too expensive.

I would hazard a statement that a PC TILTING Mutar could cost $3000 retail and be a real hot seller. Especially if it were tuned for the 50mm Distagon as the optic. It is a common optic to own, works very well, and should have a sufficient image circle to tilt +/- 10 degrees. The 40mm lens is rather rare by comparison, and optically inferior ( I am told). It is not a good lens for the target of this solution. The BEST lens would be the 80mm Planar..... we all have this lens and it is really pretty good, and an F2.8 optic at that.

Actually I think Zork has the right solution to use a ball and socket joint as the tilting element.

Frank Filippone
[email protected]

From Hasselblad Mailing List;
Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001
From: Jim Brick [email protected]
Subject: RE: 55 Schneider Super Angulon PC in Hassy Mount

...

Frank,

The only reason the current (and any future) Mutar works is because of its magnifying (extender) lens element. It magnifies the lens focal length by 1.4x and provides the necessary image circle for shift, and tilt should they ever incorporate this feature. This is why the current PC Mutar is romanced with the 40mm Distagon giving a 56mm objective. And the 80mm/2,8 Planar would become a 112/4.0 objective. Not the most useful focal length for sweeping nature or architectural work.

For Scheimpflug focus adjustment, the FlexBody is really great. But for maximum flexibility, I would choose the Linhof 679 which uses Hasselblad backs (and many other backs as well), standard LF lenses (as opposed to the special lenses for the ARC), and has the full compliment of swings and tilts.

http://www.linhof.net/linhof/M679_1.htm

Jim

From Hasselblad Mailing List:
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001
From: "Q.G. de Bakker" [email protected]
Subject: Re: 55 Schneider Super Angulon PC in Hassy Mount

Frank Filippone wrote:

> I just heard back from Schneider... the lens was never made in  Hasselblad
> (200/2000) Mount.
>
> So there is and never was a Tilt and Swing Hasselblad (200/2000) lens  made
> that can be identified.

There once was a shift SWC/M with Schneider lens.

It was a special construction, having a Schneider Super-Angulon f/5.6 47 mm large-format lens in synchro-compur, mounted on a sliding front plate. The plate was connected to the SWC viewfinder, tilting it when rise or fall was applied. It was made in 1979, as a one-off.

[Ed. note: an eccentric pinhole as a shift lens? - neat idea!]
From: [email protected] (Stefan Kahlert)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001
Subject: Re: Pinhole Adapter for a Hasselblad

"John Emmons" [email protected] wrote:

>I know that these are made to fit various 35mm cameras, anyone ever
>seen one that will work on a Hasselblad? I've seen the wooden 4"x5"
>cameras and thought using roll film might be easier.
>Any leads or tips appreciated.

I tried this for a while when I had just a body and a magazine but had to ask a friend when I needed a lens. I can tell you that a Hasselblad may be the ideal pinhole-body because of its rear baffle that can easily be used as a convenient shutter.

For the pinhole just cut a circular piece of cardboard the size of the hassis bayonet and leave a little flap at its outer diameter that will allow you to remove the cardbord from the bayonet once you placed it there. Punch a whole into the middle of the cardboard-disk and cover it with some kind of metallic foil and make your pinhole. You can easily and affordably make several disks and experiment with different holesizes for optimum sharpness and excentric wholes to emulate shift-lenses.

have fun

Stefan

From Nikon MF Mailing List:
Date: Mon, 14 May 2001
From: "Tony Galt" [email protected]
Subject: Arsat 35mm f2.8 perspective control lens for $400

Does anyone know anything about this lens. It is available from Kiev Camera (http://www.kievcamera.com/35mmpc.htm). It seems to be able to shift as well as to tilt. It seems to differ from the Arsat lens of the same focal length and aperture shown at Kiev/USA which only appears to shift (http://www.kievusa.com/35mmlenses.html). Both are available in Nikon mount.

Tony Galt

From Contax Mailing List:
Date: Fri, 25 May 2001
From: Bob Shell [email protected]
Subject: Re: [CONTAX] slightly OT Schneider lens question

It's an interchangable mount. The mount is proprietary to Schneider and isn't a T-mount or anything like that. The mount is a machined metal ring which slides onto the back of the lens and is held in place by three set screws with Allan heads. A wrench comes with the mount. The bare lens has no camera mount at all.

Schneider USA no longer lists the lens because they say it is a very old design and not up to their current quality standards. I don't think that means it is a bad lens, just not a super fantastic lens. Last time I talked to them they still had a few pieces in inventory. The mounts are no problem because they are used with the current Schneider industrial macro system.

Bob

> From: "Pat Perez" [email protected]
> Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 
> Subject: [CONTAX] slightly OT Schneider lens question
>
> I am considering purchasing one of the Schneider Perspective Control  lenses
> to use on my Contax gear, and I have no idea what mount they use (BH  Photo
> lists the lens in the Contax mount, but I'm fairly certain it is an
> interchangeable mount). Schneider Optics (the US subsidiary) doesn't  list
> the lens in their product line, and I don't read German in order to make
> head or tail of the schneiderkreuznach website. By looking at the  (German)
> PDF file, I am inclined to guess it uses the M42 mount, which means I  just
> need to buy an inexpensive screw-on adapter. Does anyone know for  certain if
> this is true?
>
> Thanks,

From Nikon Mailing List:
Date: Sun, 27 May 2001
From: "Jonas Andersson" [email protected]
Subject: Ang: Arsat 35mm f2.8 perspective control lens for $400

Date: 05/27/2001
From: Jonas Andersson
To: "[email protected]"@wwf-se.INTERNET
Subject: Ang: [NikonMF] Arsat 35mm f2.8 perspective control lens for $400

Hi Tony!

Sorry for the delay...

I have a Kiev Arsat PCS 35/2.8 which I got from another member of this list in exchange for fixing one of his other lenses, and I'm *very* pleased with it (thanks Gunnar!!!)

The upper one is the tilt/shift version, it has a square base that makes it a bit bulky. When turning it around it hits the prism on my F3HP (just barely, I'll fix that problem when I get around to it) and it also is a bit tricky on my FE2 where one of the knobs hit the MD-12 handle. Also the focusing throw is reverse direction from Nikkor lenses (turn anti clockwise for focusing towards infinity when looked at from behind, same as Leitz lenses). My Kiev Kaleinar 100/2.8 focuses like Nikkors, go figure!

However, apart from these inconviniences I usually prefer it over the Nikkor PC 35/2.8 since I find the stop down stop (those lenses doesn't stop down automatically due to the shifting ability of the lens mount) is easier to handle. And it's nice to have shifting ability, of course. Don't misunderstand me, the Nikkor is a wonderful lens too, for shifting!

Optics are *excellent* as on most Kiev lenses. Sharp as a knife! If you can get it from Ukraine or Poland it will be a lot cheaper, as Pim and Piotr pointed out earlier!

Also available from http://www.arsenal-photo.com/tilt.htm for the same price as in the US...

Best regards
/Jonas

Tony Galt 2001-05-15

Does anyone know anything about this lens. It is available from Kiev Camera (http://www.kievcamera.com/35mmpc.htm). It seems to be able to shift as well as to tilt. It seems to differ from the Arsat lens of the same focal length and aperture shown at Kiev/USA which only appears to shift (http://www.kievusa.com/35mmlenses.html). Both are available in Nikon mount.

Tony Galt

From Nikon Mailing List;
Date: Thu, 17 May 2001
From: "Stouten, Pim (EBI)" [email protected]
Subject: [NIKON] RE: OT some enlarher and russian stuff

Pierlucio wrote:

[snip]

I've seen an ARSAT 35PC shift & tilt that comes in a Nikon mount. cfr http://www.kievcamera.com/35mmpc.htm

The price seems very good over in Ukaine (around $ 150 as Pim pointed out; $400 at Kiev Camera USA)

Have you any news about this lens? is it really a Nikon mont compatible with, let say, FE, F4?

[snip]

Hi Pierlucio,

Yes, these lenses are 100% compatible with Nikon mount. Only thing you'll miss is communication of the aperture setting to the camera, but that also counts for Nikkor PC lenses. I've used a Mir 20mm and an Arsat 35mm PC on FG20, F501 (N2020 in the US), FM, F, F2, F3, F4 bodies without any problems. Only point of attention when mounting the PC is the 'orientation mark' (a red dot) for mounting the lens: it's not on the lens barrel, but on the side of the lens mount...

For both lenses, the mount is constructed in such a way that it won't interfere with (read: damage) the AI indexing lever on the body.

I took the liberty of copying Abdo Thabet's detailed instructions on usage of a PC lens below:

[snip]

Max shift

7mm max shift for the diagonals
8mm max shift for right - left
11mm max shift for up - down

It might be useful to know why PC lenses work. Nearly all lenses produce a circular image and the film frame is inside circular image. With a PC lenses the circular image is very much larger than normal and this circular image is shifted around the film frame. The max shifts are where the film frame come close to the edge of the circular image. Also PC lenses have no automatic apertures.

This is how I use my PC lens (28mm f4)

1. Focus wide open.

2. Stop the aperture down to meter (stop down metering). I can not imagine using a PC lenses in anything other than manual exposure mode.

3. Open up the aperture.

4. Shift.

5. Stop the aperture down

6. Press the shutter button.

Then

7. Shift back to centre (or center which ever you perfer)

8. Open up the aperture.

Steps 7 and 8 are optional and may be reversed, but it means that I never try to meter or focus with the lens shifted or stopped down.

[snip]

For those interested: there was an exhaustive thread on the Nikon MF list recently. Check www.yahoogroups.com and search for NikonMF.

Hope this helps,

Pim
from cloudy, rainy ;-( Amsterdam

From Nikon MF Mailing List;
Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001
From: Lucio [email protected]
Subject: Re: Tilt % shift

Mel asked about the Zoerk gizmo to obtain shift & tilt

Zoerk in Munchen (Germany) has a fine line of interesting gadgets. The panorama shift adapter (PSA) adapts medium format lenses on Nikon bodies via an adapter that permits a certain degree of lateral movement. You need a lerger circle of confusion lens (medium format like Flektogon f/4 45mm Sekor, 40mm Distagon or any Hassie, Praktica, Pentax, Rollei or Bronica) to cover the whole of the 35mm format For instance you can get around 20mm of shift. Price (1999) US$ 550

Similar is the italian Free Eye adapter

www. freeeye.com

for around US$ 300, probably less since the US$ went up.

Anyway, the basic priciple is the same :

- you need an indipendent adapter that allows lateral/vertical movements of the cental axis of the lens

- you need a lens with a large circle of confusion that will alows covering the 26mm x 36mm area when shifted.

Horseman also makes something more complicated with a bellow that tranforms a Nikon body in a mini view camera for around....US$ 2000!

Pierlucio in Montreal

From Nikon MF Mailing List:
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Question about use of perspective-control lens

--- In NikonMF@y..., "J&M" jess466@o... wrote:

> Hi all.  I just obtained a Nikon 35mm perspective-control lens.  I
> haven't taken any pictures with it yet, but I did play around with
> it a little on the camera this afternoon.
>
> I noticed that when it is fully shifted, it seems like there is less
> light getting through.  In thinking about it, that seems like it
> might be a normal consequence of the shift, but I'm not sure.  So
> can anyone tell me if that is to be expected?  Does the amount of
> light getting through the lens normally fall off when the lens is
> shifted to maximum?

Perhaps a tiny bit, but not nearly as much as you see in the viewfinder. The fresnel lens on the viewing screen is designed to accept light coming from a "centered" lens, and when the lens is off-center, the light is coming from the wrong angle. The film doesn't care what angle the light comes from, but the screen does. This makes the screen darker, and it plays havoc with the split image, as well. Depending on your camera body, it can affect the metering, too. It's best to meter with the lens centered, and then use that exposure with the shifted lens.

But if you shift too far, you will get darkening of the corners. I assume you've noticed the numbers along the click stops at various angles. There are 7s, 8s, and a 11s (and maybe a few others -- I've forgotten). Those numbers correspond to the maximum recommended shift amount, in mm, for that shift angle. The little hash-marks near the shift knob tell you how many millimeters you have shifted the lens. Just don't shift farther than the numbers say to, or else be prepared for a darkened corner or two.

--Rich

From Nikon MF Mailing List;
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Re: Question about use of perspective-control lens

Rich is right and you should not need to much practice with this lenses or the 28mm PC lenses.

The thing is time. It does take time to work with these lenses.

Max shift

7mm max shift for the diagonals
8mm max shift for right - left
11mm max shift for up - down

It might be useful to know why PC lenses work.

Nearly all lenses produce a circular image and the film frame is inside circular image. With a PC lenses the circular image is very much larger than normal and this circular image is shifted around the film frame. The max shifts are where the film frame come close to the edge of the circular image.

Also PC lenses have no automatic apertures

This is how I use my PC lens (28mm f4)

1. Focus wide open.
2. Stop the aperture down to meter (stop down metering). I can not imagine using a PC lenses in anything other than manual exposure mode.
3. Open up the aperture.
4. Shift.
5. Stop the aperture down
6. Press the shutter button.

Then
7. Shift back to centre (or center which ever you perfer)
8. Open up the aperture.

Steps 7 and 8 are optional and may be reversed, but it means that I never try to meter or focus with the lens shifted or stopped down.

Please note. I have been wrong before, I will be wrong in the future and I am probably wrong now! But the above works for me.

abdo.

From Hasselblad Mailing List:
Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Hasselblad Lens Tilt

[email protected] writes:

What about the 1.4x Shift-Mutar?

From the Hasselblad literature: "The PC-Mutar 1.4x is a unique accessory which adds perspective control to your lenses between 40 and 100mm focal lengths. You can shift the lens +/- 16mm, and photograph tall subjects without tilting the camera, which would distort the image. The PC-Mutar opens up new horizons, especially in architectural photography. It extends the focal lengths by a factor of 1.4. Used with the CF 40 lens, the total focal length is 56mm..."

So, with the 40 you can obtain camera "movements" with either the Flexbody, or (to a lesser degree) with the PC-Mutar. Neither solution is going to replace view cameras, but may fulfill the needs of specific individuals.

David G.

Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001
From: "Nandakumar Sankaran" [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.technique.nature
Subject: Re: Canon tilt/shift lenses

I have been a 35mm shooter for many years and recently added a 4x5 system. I can tell you my experiences with front tilts, from a 35mm photographer's perspective. First of all, tilts are not as simple as they appear. I used to think that you simply tilt the front element and you immediately get sharp focus from foreground to background. NO. To understand why this is not so simple, you have to understand the Scheimpflug rule. Look up any large format book for a description of how this works. I'm also an engineer and while it is easy to understand the principle, it takes practice to execute it in the field. I dont know how easy it is to work with Canon T/S lenses because I haven't used them. My experience is only with tilts on my 4x5 camera.

Secondly, for the moment, forget about hyperfocal distance when you talk about tilts. Without tilts, you focus on a place parallel to the camera back and you have a certain plane "parallel" to the focal plane both in front of and behind the plane of focus. All objects within this plane seem to be in focus. You would use a hyperfocal length to determine the plane of focus such that all objects both in front and back of it seem completely in focus. In other words, your entire frame is in focus. This is simple. On the other hand, what if you are only interested in the objects on the plane of focus? Then there is no question of hyperfocal distance. You simply focus on one object and everything else on that plane is in focus, right?

Lets say you are photographing a flat field, say a midwest corn field. If you want the tops of all the crops to be in focus, you can imagine a plane that connects the tops of all the crops. If you could place the camera such that its back is parallel to this plane, then all you have to do is focus on this plane and shoot. The entire scene would be in focus. But, this means that you have to be suspended above the field in order to achieve this effect.

Fortunately front tilts make this effect easier to achieve without learning to float in air. With front tilts, you essentially cause the plane of focus NOT to be parallel to the camera back anymore. Once the front element is tilted, Schiempflug rule says that the plane of focus, the plane of the camera back and the plane of the front element all have to meet on an imaginary line. Well, a plane needs atleast two lines to be unique. Since the focal plane is unique, there needs to be another imaginary line to define this plane. This second imaginary line is determined by a "Hinge rule". I wouldn't go into the details here because it could be confusing at the moment.

So, in order to shoot the corn field, you could technically place the camera on a tripod (on land) with the camera back vertical and tilt the front element down to a point where the corn field becomes the plane of focus. As we discussed earlier, since this is the only plane that you are interested in, there is no need to discuss hyperfocal distance in this case. Hope it is clear until this point.

If we now talk about a corn field in the foreground and tall mountains in the background, you can now imagine a plane of focus that connects the top of the closest crops and the top of the farthest mountains. Everything that lies at the foothills would not lie on the plane of focus anymore. This is why Todd Caudle mentions that the middle grounds typically are soft.

OK, without front tilt, the depth of field is bounded by two planes, one in front of and one behind the plane offocus. Without tilts, all three planes are parallel to each other. With tilts, the planes are no longer parallel. The front and back planes meet the focal plane and diverge as they move away from the camera. In other words, your depth of field becomes a V-shaped volume of imaginary space. As you stop down the lens, the front and back planes diverge farther. So the mouth of the V enlarges but they still meet at the same imaginary line with the focal plane. In other words, stopping down a lens increases depth of field as you move further away from the camera.

Now, to hold the corn field and the distant mountains all in 'apparent' focus, you would have to focus on some plane connecting the closest corn field (remember DOF with tilted lenses is narrowest near the camera) and the distant mountains. As you stop down the lens, the middle ground comes more and more into apparent focus. Depending upon the irregularities in the scene being photographed, certain objects may never fall within the depth of field. So, in addition to learning to use front tilts, it is important to learn where NOT to use front tilts. In very irregular scenics, front tilt will actually end up being detrimental to a photograph.

As I mentioned earlier, the greatest difficulty in employing a front tilt is determining the amount of tilt and imagining a tilted focal plane. With 4x5 cameras, because the bellows can be extended, moving the lens closer to the back causes the tilted focal plane to "fall" flatter on the ground, hinging obviously on the imaginary line where the plane of the back and the plane of the tilted lens meet (because this is required by the Scheimpflug rule). This adds an extra dimension to the difficulty. I dont know whether the Canon T/S lenses change in length as they are focussed.

Hope this helps.

Nandakumar Sankaran
http://www.geocities.com/concertocolors

"BHilton665" [email protected] wrote

> >From: "Todd Caudle" [email protected]
>
> >Now the next extreme: As you tilt the lens, you effectively swing the plane
> >of sharp focus away from parallel to the film plane.
>
> Thanks Todd, I got the part about a plane of focus, tilting as you move the
> lens ... just can't see how to apply it to this specific Canon T/S.
>
> >All your hyperfocal formulations still apply, it's
> >just that now your not using them to determine, say, from 2' to  infinity
> >directly in front of you, but now, from 2' above the plane of focus to  a 
> >point at infinity below the ground
>
> OK, here's where I can't quite relate the theory to actual usage in the field
> ... I see what you're saying but can't quite figure how to use the info  to
> calculate how close I can move in with, say, a 45 mm lens.  Let me chew  on this
> and I'll get back to you, maybe off-line?  I'm an engineer, I need  a formula
> with tilt angle I guess.  You large format guys can just look thru the
> viewfinder :)
>
> >Tell me what Muench and Dykinga books you have, and I'll refer you to
> >specific pages that might better demonstrate what my long-winded  attempt to
> >explain lacks.
>
> Actually your explanation helped me a lot, I hadn't thought of using the
> hyperfocal info with the new plane of focus.  It's just that I can't see yet
> how best to use it in the field.  Or more specifically, with the 45 mm lens
> whether or not I can get close enough to say a flower to get the detail  I want
> and still keep infinity focus.  Thanks for the time explaining it.
>
> I have a couple of Jack's books ... "Sonoran Desert", "Desert" (the  recent one
> on the Mohave), "Stone Canyons of the Colorado Plateau" (may have the names
> slightly off since I'm not looking at them but you probably know the  ones ...)
>
> Almost embarrassed to admit how many of Muench's books I have ...  "Utah",
> "Colorado II", "American Landcape", "Plateau Light", "Nature's America",
> "Ancient America", "Eternal Desert", probably forgetting a couple  (grin).
>
> Also have "Magnificent Colorado" by one Todd Caudle if you want to refer to
> that one too :)
>
> Thanks,
> Bill

Date: 24 Jun 2001
From: [email protected] (Scott M. Knowles)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: horseman view camera converter

"moat" [email protected] wrote

> hi,
> http://www.horsemanusa.com/pd_frame032.html
> anyone using this for 35mm? what is your opinion
> any other manufacturer make an equivilent item (looking for cheaper
> comparable product)?
> TIA

I looked at the VCC a few years ago, but eliminated for several reasons. One, you're limited to 80mm to 200mm lenses (35mm focal lengths), which effectively negates the reason you want full movement control, wide angle views (~16mm to ~40mm). Two, you're limited to shutterless, (Rodenstock Rodagon on Horseman's Web site) enlarger lenses. Three, it doesn't have different backs for larger film except through the different camera bodies. And four, the cost, $1800 for the VCC and back(s), and $300-600 per lens.

The gain for 35mm applications is interesting, near-full front movement control would add help, but I don't see much if you can't use the wide angle lens where you really want to use it. It's still a good idea for 35mm photography if they could add the wider range of lenses and you get the built-in light meter. And you had the extra money.

--Scott--

From Minolta Mailing List;
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Minolte 35/2.8 Shift CA lens Manual

Any person wishing to get information on, or the complete owners manual of the shift lens, visit:

http://members.aol.com/cldphoto/shift_ca.html.

This is listed by a young photographer who is quite an expert in the field, even when it comes to equipment.

Also, he is one of the few, who is not dazzled by names, but recognizes Minoltas true contribution to the " art and science" of photography.

Best;

Stephen

From Minolta Mailing List;
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: MD 35/2.8 Shift CA.

The saga of the elusive shift lens.

About two weeks ago, from Hunts photo was the second failed attempt on ebay to get a high price for a shift lens.

The first time I was winning with $ 650.00, the second time around some other guy stopped at $ 600.00. In both cases reserve was not met. I emailed the other guy, he said the reserve price was $ 795.00, but they would graciously reduce the price to $ 750.00.

Here is what I know from my attempts of procuring a shift lens in the past two or more years.

B & H Photovideo had 2 and each was sold for $ 750.00. Another big advertiser in Pop. Photog. had another and was sold for $ 775.00

3 or 4 were sold on ebay at around $ 550.00 each, one went for about $ 975.00 while another was sold for somewhere around $ 567.00.

/ I do not have my notes with me for the exact price./

I know on the last one, my ebay connection went down in the last 10 minutes.

Remember, there is the plain shift and the Rokkor-X version of the same lens.

I do not know the difference between the two, but if the implication of the name is the same as in other lenses, it could be of a better manufacture and multicoating of each element.

Good luck.

Stephen

From: "Adrian Kuryliw" [email protected]>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Perspective Control: Kiev
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 

I use a Kiev 88 Medium Format with all Russian lenses and although the
finish on the Soviet items may at times leave something to be desired, the
optics and element quality has been consistently superb. In 35mm, I use a
Nikon system with Nikkor primes exclusively. I would buy the Kiev 35mm PC
lens if I had a need for "shift" control. The Russian lenses are worth the
money presently being asked and much more. There is simply alot of supply
right now with the economic difficulties Russian people are experiencing. I
don't expect that the Kiev 35mm PC would compete with the Nikkor PC lenses,
especially in build. But, none of my Kiev 88 lenses have failed me yet!
Buying from Mike at kievcamera.com is a good idea - he will cheerfully
exchange any piece you buy until you're happy, and he goes through a good
amount of stock so he always has a variety on hand. I would avoid ebay
purchases of Kiev though since some sellers are simply trying to unload
defective items. The N80 won't meter with AI lenses, so neither would the
Kiev. You would lose auto (and other meter dependent) functions.

[email protected]> wrote 
> I don't imagine Russian lenses are anything to write home about
> (although maybe I'm wrong), but I was looking at the Kiev Nikon mount
> at  http://www.kievcamera.com/35mmpc.htm  and have to wonder if a PC
> lens at 1/3 the price is worth the ticket...Any advice?  I'd also be
> curious as to what a tilt/shift lens will do for me that a shift
> won't...And, to tie it all up...Will these work on an Nikon N80.
>



From: David Littlewood [email protected]>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Perspective Control II: Kiev
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 

[email protected] writes
>I don't imagine Russian lenses are anything to write home about
>(although maybe I'm wrong), but I was looking at the Kiev Nikon mount
>at  http://www.kievcamera.com/35mmpc.htm  and have to wonder if a PC
>lens at 1/3 the price is worth the ticket...Any advice?  I'd also be
>curious as to what a tilt/shift lens will do for me that a shift
>won't...And, to tie it all up...Will these work on an Nikon N80?
>

To help answer the general question about tilt/shift lenses, I have 
pasted below a post I made 18 months ago which covers the point. Sorry 
if it covers more than you asked, and has some references to specific 
queries involved in the old thread, but I haven't got time to rewrite 
it.

QUOTE

1. The crucial factor in keeping rectangular subjects rectangular,
parallel lines parallel etc. is to ensure that the film plane is always
parallel to the subject plane, i.e. for a vertical building (or
interior, or product, or whatever), the camera back must be vertical,
and square on to the building in plan view.

2. Taking the example of a tall building where you are photographing it
square on from the ground, this will normally result in a picture of the
bottom half of the building and a lot of uninteresting foreground.
Tilting the camera up will give the characteristic keystone> effect,
which can indeed look good if you deliberately choose it for dramatic
effect (in which case, do it dramatically!) but normally just looks
sloppy.

3. A shift lens allows you, while still keeping the camera back
vertical, to shift the lens upwards on a dovetailed slideway (whilst
still keeping the lens centre line horizontal, i.e. *not* tilting it).
This will result in the foreground falling out of shot and the upper
part of the building coming in (if you have got the position/lens choice
right). The picture will then be architecturally correct, i.e. all
vertical lines will be vertical and parallel, etc. Several manufacturers
make shift lenses for 35mm, mostly quite expensive (though you can
sometimes find some Russian ones at reasonable price).

4. Lenses which tilt as well as shift are less common - for 35mm, I only
know of the 3 (24, 45 and 90 mm) made by Canon in EOS mount (plus the
discontinued 35 mm one in FD mount). This feature has a different
purpose, for those occasions when for whatever reason you cannot keep
the film plane parallel to the subject plane, and it becomes difficult
to keep front and back in sharp focus. You use this by adjusting the
angle of the lens (it has a built-in pivot facility of about +/- 8 deg)
to some position between the film plane and the subject plane. The exact
angle is given by a simple rule, the Scheimpflug rule (doubtless named
after a gentleman of that name), which requires that the subject plane,
film plane and the lens board plane (i.e. the perpendicular to the lens
axis) all come together at the same point (or more accurately the same
line). Then the plane of sharp focus will coincide with the subject
plane, even though it is not parallel to the film plane (at least, it
will if you don't forget to focus, as all TS lenses I am aware of are
MF, even on AF cameras!). Note that tilt will *not* keep rectangular
subject looking rectangular, but it can be made to look architecturally
OK.

5. To be honest, the shift facility on my Canon 24mm gets used about 10
times more often than the tilt facility, so if you are locked into a
system that only does shifts, you should get most of the benefit. One
often overlooked benefit of tilt, though, is the ability to render a
carpet of flowers in a field sharp from front to back without having to
use f/32 or whatever. Only thing to watch there is that any tall flowers
sticking higher than the rest may be unsharp. Also, shift is easy and
intuitive to use, tilt is much more tricky to get the hang of. You can
use both together, but that involves even more mental gymnastics.

6. ReferenceCount is right that, as I said in my first post, a view
camera does it all rather better (the amount of shift available on any
practical 35mm lens is modest), and can be bought for less money.
However, there are drawbacks: (a) you may not wish to carry a full 5x4
kit that far (my full kit plus large tripod: 25kg); (b) you need a good
tripod (with practice and care, you can get perfectly good results with
a 35mm TS lens hand-held); (c) it takes quite a lot of time to set up
for each shot (good for thought, bad for the long suffering family); (d)
you need to use a dark room or a changing bag to load/unload your dark
slides; and (e) the cost per shot of 5x4 trannies is about GBP 4-5 (a
bit less if you do your own E6 processing, but not much). The latter
point really makes you think. It does become more manageable if you use
a roll-film back on your view camera, but the downside is that your
wide-angle 90mm lens for 5x4 becomes more of a standard lens on 6x7. The
results, whether on 5x4 or rollfilm, simply blow 35mm out of the water.

7. There are several good books on view camera technique which explain
all the techniques and results of shifts and tilts more eloquently and
comprehensively than I can do, and show pictures with clear examples.
See View Camera Technique> by Leslie Strobel, ISBN 0-240-80158-X;
Using the View Camera> by Steve Simmons, ISBN 0-8174-6353-4; or The
View Camera> by Harvey Shaman, ISBN 0-8174-6376-3. There are probably
others but I do not have them.

END QUOTE

Hope this helps.

-- 
David Littlewood


From: Bogdan Karasek [email protected]>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.large-format
Subject: Re: Off center Mounted Lens
Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 

David Grandy wrote:
> 
> I've heard of photographers intentionally mounting their lenses off
> centre.  This would give you a shift or rise (fall) in that  direction.
> It'd be useful if you have a camera with that movement either missing or
> limited.  For example I have no front shift on my Toyo Field camera.  If
> I had an off centre lens I'd get shift in that direction.  Of course I'd
> want to have a regular centered lens board as well.
> 
> One other point:  Are you sure that you are getting falloff?  When I do
> an extreme rise with my 8x10 Burke and James the BELLOWS gets in the
> way.  The lens has plenty of coverage but the camera is the problem.

Hi,

This off center idea intrigues me.  If you had a large square
lens board (5x5 inches, you could drill the hole as close to the
edge as conveniently possible and then mount your lens.  By
rotating the lens board, you could have maybe 1-1 1/2 inches of
rise, fall and shift in either direction.  It would also solve
the problem of the bellows getting in the way with the
conventional way of moving the standard.  If you had a lens with
suffcient coverage, you could also use the offcenter board to add
to your existing movements.  That would an interesting plus.

Anyway, this gives me the idea of drilling an off center 4x5
Crown Graphic board and using my Symmar 210mm with it. Crown
users are always complaining about the limited shift and rise and
no fall.  I'd be happy with an extra 3/4 inches each way on my
Crown.

Bogdan

-- 
Bogdan Karasek
  Montr�al, Qu�bec            e-mail: [email protected]
  Canada 



From: "Kerry L. Thalmann" [email protected]>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.large-format
Subject: Re: Off center Mounted Lens
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 

Bogdan Karasek wrote:

> This off center idea intrigues me.  If you had a large square
> lens board (5x5 inches, you could drill the hole as close to the
> edge as conveniently possible and then mount your lens.  By
> rotating the lens board, you could have maybe 1-1 1/2 inches of
> rise, fall and shift in either direction.  It would also solve
> the problem of the bellows getting in the way with the
> conventional way of moving the standard.  If you had a lens with
> suffcient coverage, you could also use the offcenter board to add
> to your existing movements.  That would an interesting plus.
 
Bogdan,

To see this concept taken one step further, check out the Toho Eccentric
Lens Panel.  This is basically a circle within a circle that allows
placement of the lens anywhere within a 30mm diameter circle in the
center of the lensboard.  Combined with the round shape of the Toho
board, this means you can get an offset ranging from 0 - 15mm in any
direction (not just left, right, up and down).  It only works with the
Toho cameras (but they make an adapter for their 5x7 and 8x10 cameras
that take Sinar comparible boards).  It's a great alternative to a bag
bellows.  I have found it unnecessary with lenses down to 75mm on my
Toho, but for shorter lenses (or if you want to use extreme movements
with a 72mm SS XL), it's great.  Most of these lenses don't have
sufficient coverage to handle more than 15mm of rise anyway, and since
there is absolutely no limitation imposed by the bellows, you basically
can get enough movement to exceed the coverage of any lens short enough
to require it.  At $225, it's in the same ballpark as some of the less
expensive bag bellows, but it's much less fragile to carry in the field,
and faster to use since you don't have to swap bellows back and forth. 
The Toho web site has some info at:

http://www.toho-machine.co.jp/Eccentric.htm

and I have some additional photos and comments on my Toho review page
at:

http://www.thalmann.com/largeformat/toho.htm

(see Figures 5b, c and d and associated comments).

This won't work on other cameras, but it might inspire somebody to try
something similar.  On cameras with a square board, you couldn't get the
infinite combinations of rise + shift, but if you could somehow make a
board that let the lens slide 0 - 15mm in one direction, you could
position the board in any of the four orientations to get 0 - 15mm of
movement in the desired direction.

Kerry
-- 
Kerry L. Thalmann - Large Format Images of Nature
http://www.thalmann.com/

Kerry's Large Format Homepage
http://www.thalmann.com/largeformat/


Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 
To: [email protected],"Hasseblad User Group (HUG)" [email protected]>
From: Jim Brick [email protected]>
Subject: Re: [HUG] Flexbody vs. Linhof Technica

I have both.

The Flex and 40mm lens has no shift capability. Not good for architectural 
subjects. The 4x5 or 70 and most any lens made for it will work wonderfully.

The 110/2F lens cannot be used on a Flex.

So you are down and out on both lenses.

Use the Technika. Or buy a 1.4x shift Mutar which converts your 40mm to a 
56mm and gives shift capability and can be used on any Hass body. Pretty 
good set-up. $1400 used.

You don't need the Flex.

Jim


Syed Noor Hossain wrote:
>Dear Hasselbladians - Professionals and Serious Amateurs,
>
>I want an honest answer and a practical one. I want to do some architectural
>photography, mostly of historical buildings, for possible publication in a
>book. I am currently using Hasselblad and own  110/2F and C40/T* lenses.
>
>a) Is it a good idea to buy a Flexbody (used) for around $1400? Can I use
>those two lenses without further investment on lens?
>
>b) Linhof Technica 4x5 with lens and roll-film back (used) or a Linhof
>Technica 70 with lens and back (used) is available around the same price.
>Would that be a better idea? I am sure some of you have Linhof experience
>and give me an honest answer.
>
>As an amateur, I used Linhof 2x3 for landscape photography but was never
>interested in architectural photography and never fiddled with the
>movements.
>
>Syed



From: Carey L. Jones [email protected]>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: HELP.  Is using a medium format camera the same as a shift lens on 35mm if you use the top half of the image?
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 

[email protected] says...
> HELP.  Is using a medium format camera the same as a shift lens on
> 35mm if you use the top half of the image?
> 
> It seems like a lens shifted 20mm on a 35mm camera would be the same
> as simply using the top or bottom of the negative of a 120 film
> camera.  The lens is shifted over from the center point of the
> negative the same way.  
> 
> If they sell medium format lens adapters that allow you to shift a
> medium format lens on a 35mm body, it must be the same thing or am I
> missing something.
> 
> Also,  this will not eliminate convergence, it just makes it less so.
> All parts of all lenses are distorting the image to some degree right?
> It just makes convergence look less noticable, it does not go away.
> 
> 

IF you are using 6x6 format, AND you want to crop and print in 
horizontal (landscape) orientation, you can reduce or eliminate upward 
tilt in the camera (and the convergance associated with it), and crop 
out the the lower (foreground) portion of the negative.  Unfortunately, 
many (if not most) tall subjects look best printed in a vertical 
(portrait) orientation.  A shift lens adapter on a 35mm camera allows 
you to use vertical orientation.

If the film plane and the subject plane are parallel there will be no 
convergance visible in the photograph.   You can lay the neg on a grid, 
and the vertical and horizontal lines in the subject plane will be 
vertical in the image (if the camera isn't tilted to one side ;-) ).  
This is a major reason photographers put up with bulk, weight, and 
general inconvenience of view cameras.

It is also possible to minimize, if not eliminate convergance in the 
printing stage, by tilting the enlarging easel.  The better enlargers 
allow you to tilt their lensboards to allow you to maintain sharp focus 
when you tilt the plane of the paper.
-- 
Carey L. Jones



From: "Tony Spadaro" [email protected]>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: disposable 16 MP digicams in 3 yrs? Re: 35mm Film Versus Digital Micromachine
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 03:43:20 GMT

  I've read about a Photoshop plug-in that corrects for barrel distortion -
by camera model number! You tell it "Nikon 995 please, and it corrects the
distortion. I don't know how well it works, but that it works at all is
pretty amazing.

--
http://home.nc.rr.com/tspadaro/
The Camera-ist's Manifesto
a Radical approach to photography.
Or thrill to sights you've never seen before  all that often
Chapel Hill artist Tony Spadaro's Home page
http://tspadaro.homestead.com/Home.html

"Joseph S. Wisniewski" [email protected]> wrote 
> Sean Golden wrote:
> >
> > "res09ooq" [email protected] wrote...
> >
> > > Affordable and quality digital cameras will be here not before too long.
> > > I just hope that they will still need the good optical lenses to take good
> > > pictures.  I don't mind throwing away my 35mm camera body and replacing it
> > > with a digital body but I hate to see my several thousand dollar lenses
> > > become useless.
>
> > I have the same opinion as you on camera body vs. lens.  I haven't yet seen
> > any digital technology that replaces optics, and I don't see any on the
> > horizon.  Manipulating electromagnetic fields to tolerances smaller than an 
> > atomic radius is pretty tricky stuff, and we are quite fortunate that it can
> > be done with lenses and mirrors in the first place.
>
> Maybe not, but it's very possible for digital technology to alter optics
> substantially.
>
> For example, it's quite possible for a digital camera to correct for
> horrible amounts of distortion, even to the point of transforming a
> fisheye lens into a wide angle with perfectly straight lines. If the
> lens manufacturer allows lens designs to have more of the kinds of
> distortion that digital cameras can compensate for (barrel distortion,
> corner light falloff) they can optimize the lenses to reduce the
> distortions that digitals can't compensate for (soft corners, chromatic
> aberrations, etc.).
>
> And, I can see all this IS and VR lens stuff going away, as the motion
> compensation moves into the cameras signal processing.
>
> Ciao!
>
> Joe
>



From: [email protected] (Johan W. Elzenga)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: pentax 67 lenses on 645
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 

If you really want something special in this aspect, look at
www.zoerk.com. This German company makes all kinds of adapters. Among
those is a SHIFT adapter for Pentax 67 lenses on a Pentax 645. It is
similar to Pentax' own adapter, but it will turn each 67 lens into a
perspective control lens on the P645!!! Not cheap and you do loose
automatic aperture, but I bought one nevertheless.


-- 
Johan W. Elzenga                  [email protected]
Editor/Photographer               www.cheetah.demon.nl


From: JR [email protected]>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: No third-party tilt-shift lenses?
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 

Yep...I was right.  There are 2.  There is the Arsat PCS 35/2.8 with 
20mm of shift at $200 and the 35/2.8 tilt/shift at $400 with 20mm of 
shift and 16 degress of tilt.  The reviews were not that great on the 
build quality.  But they worked.....

JR


From: "David Haardt" [email protected]>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: No third-party tilt-shift lenses?
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 

There is the Ukrainian (not Russian!) "PCS Arsat" lens made by Arsenal
Factory in Kiev, which has a focal length of 35mm and an f/2.8 speed. It
costs about 200 dollars (eBay)... You can take a look at my page about it:
http://home.pages.at/haardt/pcsarsat35.htm

Cheers,

David Haardt

"Walter Goodman" [email protected]> schrieb im 
>
> I have the Canon 24mm TS-E lens and I love it. However, Canon only offers
> 3 tilt-shift lenses: a 24mm f/3.5, a 45mm f/2.8 and a 90mm f/2.8. The gap
> between the 24mm and 45mm is very large. Sometimes I feel like I need a 35mm
> TS lens. Canon used to make a 35mm f/2.8 shift only lens for the FD mount,
> but unfortunately they don't make one for the EF mount.
>
> And of the major 35mm camera manufacturers, Canon offers the most number
> of perspective control lenses (total of 3).
>
> So why don't third party manufacturers offer tilt-shift lenses? One answer
> may be that perspective control lenses pose a challenge in the design. This
> may be true for tilt lenses, but for shift lenses, all you need is a larger
> image circle. Tamron makes the Bronica line of medium format cameras, so
> they should be able to reuse the medium format lens designs and just add
> shift movement to them, right? The image circle for the 35mm format is about
> 44mm in diameter, while the image circle for the 6x7 format is about 85mm,
> that should provide plenty of movement.
>
> Another answer may be that the market for this kind of specialty lenses is
> small. But third-party manufacturers have the advantage of offering the lenses
> to multiple camera systems. Given the extremely limited offerings of  perspective
> control lenses from camera manufacturers, there should be a niche in the
> market.
>
> Walter
>


From kiev88 mailing list:
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 
From: "maskrider44" [email protected]
Subject: hartblei shift lens on 88cm

Hi there,
Has anyone worked with a Hartblei 45mm shift lens mounting on 88cm?
At most angles, the breech-lock knob on the outside is too tight
against the shift adjustment ring of the lens, making it tough to
turn.  Will it affect the lens alignment if I force it?  Is filing
away the knob the way to do it?  Thanks.

Adrian


From nikon mailing list:
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 
From: "Jack Jansen" [email protected]
Subject: Re: 28mm PC

> Hemant asked about PC lenses.

One way to think about PC lenses is that they allow the camera to be kept
level and the CAMERA BODY moved with respect to the lens. Imagine the
camera maintained level and pointed at, say, the church of the Madeleine
in Paris, or the stock-exchange building in New York.  With the camera
level, the images of the columns are vertical and parallel. The lens
produces an image much larger than the film, an image from the top of the
building down to the street at your feet.  With the lens centered, (lens
and body coaxial), the film sees a lot of street but it doesn't see the
top of the building.  The PC lens allows the BODY of the camera to be
translated in the up-down direction to place the film at a place in that
big image to include more of the top of the building and less of the
street, like moving the easel around under an enlarger.

Jack J  


http://www.uscoles.com/pclens.htm   explains PC lenses

John Albino's List:
Tilt/Shift Lenses:
http://www.photo.net/photo/canon/tilt-shift
http://rmp.opusis.com/pipermail/rmp/2001-July/002295.html
http://eosdoc.com/manuals/notes/tilt-shift_desc/

Scheimpflug:
http://www.ai.sri.com/~luong/photography/lf/how-to-focus.html
http://www.a1.nl/phomepag/markerink/tiltcalc.htm
http://www.profotos.com/education/promag/articles/lenswview/lenswview4/index.shtml


From Minolta Mailing List:
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: MD 35/2.8 Shift CA.

--- In ManualMinolta@y..., stephen@a... wrote:
> The saga of the elusive shift lens.
>
> Here is what I know from my attempts of procuring a shift lens in
the past two or more years.

FWIW, in addition to the recent "reserve not made auctions", this is
my record of eBay sales. Same caveat I always have to make: the
described condition is very subjective based upon the seller's
description of the lens.

511.00  e       3/10/00
595.50  m-      8/1/00 (bought by a member of this egroup)
514.00  e+      8/6/00
877.00  e+      1/9/01
587.87  e+      3/21/01
727.00  e+      6/27/01

Ken


From Minolta Mailing List:
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 
From: Stephen Castello [email protected]>
Subject: Re: shift lens

Kiev Camera
http://www.kievcamera.com

Arsat 35mm PCS shift and tilt perspective control wide angle (Minolta 
mount) $400.00

Stephen


From kiev88 camera mailing list:
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 
From: Dale Dickerson [email protected]
Subject: Reflections on my MC TS-PC Hartblei 3.5/45 "tilt-n-shift"

When the package arrived, I was pleased to see the nice black case
holding my new MC TS-PC Hartblei 3.5/45 "tilt-shift". I opened the lower
compartment to see a great hood for the lens. It is a small hood, but it
does the job.

Next I opened the top compartment and removed the lens. The finish and
feel is solid. Looking as the glass, I saw a nice uniform MC. The lens
quality looks good.

My first roll of films started with a simple shoot of a building @ f16
without changing the adjustments. The print looks sharp and clearly the
MC has given the lens a higher contrast. Comparing the negative in the
center to one shot with my Mir-26 and CZJ MC 50mm shows a sharper lens
then the Mir-26 45mm, but not as sharp as my CZJ MC 50mm. The print
looks much sharper then the Mir-26 lens, but that is due to the higher
contrast. The prints of the Hartblei and CZJ look equally sharp, but
again it is the contrast of the Hartblei. The results of the Hartblei
are very pleasing. It is a nice lens to have in my camera bag. It is a
bit wider then 50mm for those times when I need that little extra angle
of view.

My second shoot was using shift and tilt to adjust the perspective of
the building and to have the depth field intersecting the foreground. At
f8, I was delighted as I looked at the ground glass of my Pentacon Six.
I got the perspective of the building with parallel lines.  However, the
print was soft, very soft. Forget the fall off from the lens not cover
the full 6x6 frame, the image was very poor. It turns out I had the lens
in it weakest performance setting. I know this because, this week
Hartblei sent me  a copy of a new instruction booklet for the lens. (The
instruction booklet recommends f11-22 anytime using tilt and shift.) The
booklet has the lens test results. They sent charts of the resolution of
the lens at different degrees of tilt and/or shift (these are the
average values of tests of several lenses performed on Kodak T-max 100
with a film resolution of 200 lines per mm). The charts are set up by f
stop  with tilt and/or shift. The resolution of the center on my first
two shoots went from 60 to 35 lines of resolution per millimeter, the
fall off at the edges is even higher. On the second shot, 37mm from
center in the direction of the shift the resolution is 20/15. Based on
the charts, my second shoot should have been at f22. At f22 the lens
would yield for my second shoot a resolution of 40 center and 25 at 37mm
from center in direction of shift. That is the best the lens will give
for the shift and tilt needed for that shoot. Those are not figures for
doing big prints.

My further photographs made with the lens tell me the lens is no
substitute for a view camera. It is useful in a pinch. However, I will
not shoot using the tilt and shift functions without checking the
charts. The drop in resolution is hard to guess and the charts are very
helpful. The copies of the charts are now in my camera bag and the lens
case.

Hartblei did a very fine job on this lens. I use it as my regular 45mm
lens. The tilt and shift are very useful for fine tuning the image. Used
with no tilt or shift, the lens is a nice performer.  I recommend buying
this lens. I do not recommend using the lens anywhere near the maximum
tilt or shift the lens permits. At the extremes the lens disappoints me.

Dale



From: "jw&a" [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.large-format
Subject: Re: Perspective correction software
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 


i've tried some perspective correction plugins for photoshop, and also a
program called picture window. i wouldn't say i exhaustively tested it, so
maybe someone else can provide some more details.

in my case, i had 35mm prints with vertical convergence in buildings. the
software could "improve" the convergence, but not correct it. basically, it
has a grid with adjustable control points. you align the edges of the grid
with verticals and the sofware will resample the image, making the grid a
square again. unfortunately, the verticals in the center of the building
didn't end up vertical, but the outside edges did.

bob
south carolina



From: "Ian Brocklebank" [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.large-format
Subject: Re: 6x9 Ebony or Hasselblad ArcBody?
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001


"�ke Vinberg" [email protected] wrote 
> - Hasselblad Arcbody with 45mm lens
> - Ebony SW23 with SW-Nikkor 65/4 lens

Ake, I have not really used either of these systems, but have quite a lot of
experience with medium format view camera work, so perhaps I can help a
little.

> - For your type of landscape shooting style, do you find the lack of swing
> and shift limiting?

I would, yes, but most of my work is architectural or archaeological, so I
need lots of shift in all directions. Wide-angle landscape work is less
critical in this respect I think, but you will certainly want a few degrees
of tilt and some shift on the front.

Remember that depth of focus is limited with 6x9, so any tilts or swings on
the back standard will not be very useful in themselves: if you use only 2mm
out of plane at one end of a 6x9 frame, you will have no depth of field left
in the picture at all.

> - Coming from 4x5, will I be able to live with a (cropped) 6x6 film size for
> enlargements up to Super A3/B?

That leaves you with something like 6x4.5, which is pretty small. Maybe, but
that's really up to you: there will be no margin for error, nor any
sloppiness in technique. 6x9 is more than 50% bigger and is really pretty
good with modern films and developers.

I think there is far more quality difference now between miniature and
medium formats than between medium and large. The most consistently
noticeable difference is that the 4x5" will have more detail in open
shadows, in particular, but you may only be aware of this in a direct
comparison against 6x9". The difference to 6x4.5cm or equivalent would be
too much for me.

> - For the Ebony, would a Horseman 6x9 reflex hood work as well as the
> Arcbody reflex finder does?

Sorry, never tried them

> - Are there any other factors I should consider?

Even though depth of field is theoretically greater with the shorter lenses
you will be using, it is very difficult indeed to actually assess it by eye
in medium format, and some kind of calibration scale on the camera is really
essential if you are not to burn acres of Polaroid test shots. I think the
ArcBody may have this already, which may count in its favour (but I could be
wrong, here: I've only seen them in pictures, and that was a while ago). On
the other hand there is a very good article on Q T Luong's large format
website on how to make a depth of field indicator to fit on the focus knob
of a conventional view camera
(http://www.ai.sri.com/~luong/photography/lf/) I found this out the hard
way some years ago, and my focus indicator is much more rough-and-ready, but
it works, and I rely on it heavily. You should probably assume that you will
become very frustrated, disappointed and angry without one of these little
things. It surprises me that manufacturers tend to offer these as an option
only on the larger cameras, and not at all on the medium format versions,
where they are really essential.

> - Are there any other systems I should consider?

Yes, very much so.

The Linhof Technikardan is immensely versatile, but expensive and quite
heavy. This is what I have, and it suits me well, but the full monorail
movements may be over-specified for your purposes: you would be paying for
(and carrying) features you don't need.

You may well find the Arca-Swiss 6x9 F-Line camera is just the job for you,
and you should probably not buy before at least looking at one in detail.
The binocular finder in particular is excellent, and the camera is light,
smallish and well made. It can also comfortably take the same special
Rodenstock lenses that were designed for the Arc-Body, which is well worth
remembering if you are into wide-angle work. If I were buying now, I might
well go for one of these instead of the TK, especially with the new "Orbix"
feature.

Be very wary of smaller, cheaper versions of anything other than high-end
5x4" cameras. These may well be very good at the larger size, but the
critical requirements of the smaller format actually mean that only the
highest standards of manufacturing precision will do. Tolerable
imperfections at 5x4" are often not tolerable at 6x9cm.


> Your input appreciated,

Hope it helps: good luck, and let us know how you get on.

Ian B




From kiev88 mailing list:
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002
From: "maskrider44" [email protected]
Subject: hartblei shift lens on 88cm

Hi there,

Has anyone worked with a Hartblei 45mm shift lens mounting on 88cm?
At most angles, the breech-lock knob on the outside is too tight
against the shift adjustment ring of the lens, making it tough to
turn.  Will it affect the lens alignment if I force it?  Is filing
away the knob the way to do it?  Thanks.

Adrian


From: [email protected] (Largformat)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.large-format
Date: 05 Feb 2002 
Subject: Re: Landscape/Nature photography and camera movements


I was always under the impress that I used front tilts and swings to adjust
DOF. I think Steve was saying that front swings and tilts are used for this,
but that rear swings and tilts are used to change the relative size and
shapes of elsments in the projected image.

Not quite. Using the swings and tilts does  not really change the dof. What
these movements do is rotate the plane of focus so it more closely aligns with
the plane of the subject. Then the need for smaller opening in the lens is
minimized and instead of f32-45 you may be able to use f22-32 or so. In terms
of the Scheimpflug rule the back swing and tilt and the front swing and tilt
are interchangeable. However, there is a difference in terms of the final
image. When you tilt/swing the front the shape of the subject or pieces of the
subject will stay the same becaause the distance from the center of the lens,
about the point of the diaphragm, to the different areas of the film remain the
same. However, if you swing/tilt the back the distance from different areas of
the film (top and bottom or left and right side) to the lens changes and
therefore the shape of the subject or different objects on different parts of
the film changes. I usually teach that back swing and titls are for perspective
and shape and size relationship changes and front swing and tilt are for
Scheimpflug.

steve simmons
view camera magazine



From: [email protected] (Robert Monaghan)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Rolleiflex SL66 advice
Date: 8 Mar 2002

Lassi asks:
Does the Horseman VCC count?
endquote

Yes, it sure does, at least IF you are a Hassy or mamiya rb/rz owner, so
long as you ONLY want telephoto lens tilt/shift capability (e.g, 180mm on
RB), and if, make that really only IF, you want to spend circa $2,000 for
the bellows!!! ;-)

I have to admit I don't understand why standard bellows are made without
some tilt/shift capability, at least front shift, how much can that cost?
The Bronica SQ etc.  auto bellows are $1,800 anyway from B&H, the pentax
67 is $1,300-ish etc.

Part of my denseness and wonderment at why this isn't done nowadays is
that there were shift and tilt/shift medium format bellows for Bronica
S2/EC and Kowa 6/66 and the old spiratone med fmt and 35mm bellows set, so
this isn't that impossible a thing to do.

I notice that Novoflex still has an under $300 (at b&H anyway) bellows for
medium format focal plane cameras, Mfr Catalog # BALUNI / B&H Catalog #
NOBU, but you need 2 adapters ($80 and $180 a pop) ;-( still around $600?

oh well, we'll just have to hack a setup if they won't make it cheaply for
us...

see http://medfmt.8k.com/bronshift.html homebrew shift lenses ;-)

regards bobm


From Minolta Mailing List:
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 
From: "gdstaples" [email protected]
Subject: Re: perspective control lens

Here is a link to a PC lens for an MD mount PC lens:

http://members.aol.com/cldphoto/shift_ca.html

There are no PC lenses that I am aware of that will work on the
Maxxum AF bodies.  The problem with using an aftermarket or third
party PC lens is the electronic saftey release built into the Maxxum
bodies.  They are designed not to fire without an electronically
enabled Maxxum lens attached.  Some of the older cameras like the
7xi/5xi/9xi have a way to disable this feature but many of the newer
Maxxum bodies do not.

Good luck,
Duncan



From Minolta Mailing List:
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 
From: "bigplanetexec" [email protected]
Subject: Re: Re: perspective control lens

Read that as newer CHEAPER Maxxum bodies don't work with manual lenses. All
the high end ones from the 700si on up can disable the interface. In fact
the RD-175 which is based on one of the 500si bodies detects it
automatically and disables the interface all by itself without having to
hold any buttons down when powering up.

Kent Gittings


From Minolta Mailing List:


From Minolta Mailing List:


From Minolta Mailing List:
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 
From: "Roland Reiss" [email protected]
Subject: RE: Re: perspective control lens

> There are no PC lenses that I am aware of that will work on the
> Maxxum AF bodies.  The problem with using an aftermarket or third

Look at http://www.schneiderkreuznach.com/foto/foto.htm. They make the
PC Super Angulon 2.8/28 mm. This lens has a user changeable mount and
one for Minolta AF is available. The very same lens is also sold by
Leica Camera for their SLR cameras. Just in case you might have doubts
about the quality.

> party PC lens is the electronic saftey release built into the Maxxum
> bodies.  They are designed not to fire without an electronically
> enabled Maxxum lens attached.  Some of the older cameras like the
> 7xi/5xi/9xi have a way to disable this feature but many of the newer
> Maxxum bodies do not.

No, basically all newer Minoltas can be made to work with non-AF lenses
using a special button combination. Some old and cheap models like Spxi,
2xi or 3xi require modification through the Minolta service.

--
Roland Reiss



From Minolta Mailing List:
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 
From: "selsneer" [email protected]
Subject: Re: perspective control lens

Michael,

I used the Nikon 28 PC lens on my Minolta 9000.  You need a Minolta
to Nikon Adapter (about $35-40), which contains a small lens which
allows for infinity focus.  This setup worked very well.  The small
lens did not degrade the image to a noticable degree.  There was no
vignetting at maximum shift.  Im not sure where you can find the
adapter.  Perhaps B & H would have it or know where to get it.

Jerry Solinger


From Minolta Mailing List:
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 
From: "raminolta" [email protected]
Subject: Re: perspective control lens

Try zork products. They are basicly tilt and shift tools that can be
mounted on any camera through an adaptor. I have them and use them on
my maxxum9xi and maxxum7.

  Check www.zoerk.com (or www.zork.com) for more information about
them.

  They are made in Germany but there is a representative in north
america that sells them.

  Ramin



From: "eMeL" [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Rolleiflex SL66 advice
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002


Dan Kalish [email protected] wrote ...
>
> Anyway, you can fit a tilt bellows to any MF SLR.  That's a very
> standard accessory.  I think it usually runs about $200.  (I'm
> presently looking at Bronicas and that's one of their accessories.)

Tilt bellows for MF a "very standard accessory"..?  On planet Earth???
Mind it, not for macro shots, but the ones that preserve infinity focus.
If you find one for Rolleiflex 600x I'm in!

There used to be bellows for Bronica S2 and similar models with tilt and
shift (even at infinity, but shift is very, very limited at non-macro
distances) and those are sometimes available on the used market.  This item
fits Bronicas S2, etc only but *can* be adapted to other cameras after
considerable tinkering.  Even then the end result is somehow pokey and
useful mostly for table top photography...

You may be interested in visiting
http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=000CVk&msg_id=000CVk

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=000teC

http://photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=000qXW&topic_id=&topic=">Pentax 67 - 75mm shift

and - of course
http://www.smu.edu/~rmonagha/bronica.html
(long links - may break up...)

For the record:
RZ T/S adapter goes for about $1500...
Zoerkendorfer and Horseman - mucho, mucho $$$

Michael




Tom Trottier's Olympus 24mm f/3.5 Shift Lens on Homebrew Body and Mamiya 6x7cm Back

Thanks to Tom Trottier for sharing this project and photos linked above and below with us!



Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 
From: Tom Trottier [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: MF_Wide_angle


RE: http://medfmt.8k.com/mf/wide.html

I just bought an Olympus Zuiko 24/3.5 shift lens along with an adapted 6x7
"body" that probably exceeds almost any other MF WA lens (100 degrees) -
but it vignettes severely in the corners.

The "Body" is hand-made with a Mamiya 6x7 roll back, and a T, B, 1 - 1/100
leaf shutter.

The lens has been adapted by cutting off the scalloped top and bottom
shades and removing the arm which signals the chosen f/stop to an Olympus
35mm SLR. But it  is still usable on my Olympuses as a shift lens with auto
or stopped-down metering.


See the attached files. [Links below:]


Sample Photo (750+ kb)


lens (shows silicon sealant site)


Zuiko shift lens


Tom

postscript:
Also, I didn't construct it. I bought it from Peter Murphy in Australia.

------- Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur -----------------
   ,__@ Tom A. Trottier +1 613 860-6633 fax:231-6115
 _-\_<, 758 Albert St.,Ottawa ON Canada K1R 7V8
(*)/'(*)        ICQ:57647974 N45.412 W75.714
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Notes from Lens Info Sheet (note 100 degree coverage..)!


Zuiko shift 24mm f/3.5 lens:
84 degree angle of view (100 deg. at max shift)
maximum shift of 10 mm
image circle 57 mm
12 elements in 10 groups (multicoated)
preset diaphragm
f/3.5 to f/22 aperture range
minimum focus 13.8" (35cm)
minimum field size 9.4" x 14.2" (24x36cm)
focusing by rotating cam (inner focus)
weight 18 oz. (510 gm)
length 3" (75mm)
maximum diameter 3.3" (84mm)
filter system built-in






From: [email protected] (brian)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Wow!!!   Nikkor 105/2.5 AI
Date: 19 Mar 2002 


Well Tony, I eagerly await your thorough test of the distortion
variability in the 4 Canon lenses you mention.  You claim that such
variability in the Nikon AF-S is 'well documented'.  The only such
documentation that I have seen is from Bjorn Rorslett, who mentioned
focus shifts (presumably focus drift during zooming) and flaws due to
element decentration in a few early production samples, but nothing
about distortion variability.  If you can point me to additional
documentation I would appreciate it.

Every comment I've ever heard from actual owners of the lens
(including me) is essentially the same regarding distortion:
significant barrel at 17mm, essentially zero at 24-28mm, and slight
pincushion at 35mm.  If you want quantitative results go here:
http://www.caldwellphotographic.com/TutorialsDistortionAndColorFringing.html

I've actually had some people email me to say that they've
successfully used my correction coefficients to get rid of the
resudual distortion and color fringing at the 17mm end of the 17-35.
No one has yet told me that my coefficients have failed to work, as
might happen if the sample variation you claim is so prevalent
actually occurs.

Since you are the apparently a master of sample variation, perhaps you
can do something worthwhile by actually measuring the distortion in
the samples you have access to and report back with something other
than your usual personal attacks.

Brian


>
> Brian is supposed to be an experienced lens designer, yet he hasn't
> the faintest idea what sample variation means.
>
> All wide angle zooms (ALL BRANDS) suffer systematically from more
> sample variation than almost any other lens type.  That of the Nikon
> AF-S and Canon L 17-35mm f/2.8 lenses is well documented.
>
> The Canon 16-35mm f/2.8 L is said to be better, but I'm not sure.
> There seem to be significant differences between four that I know
> well, and they all appeared to have come from a single batch.



From: [email protected] (brian)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Wow!!!   Nikkor 105/2.5 AI
Date: 19 Mar 2002 


Bruce Murphy [email protected] wrote...
> [email protected] (brian) writes:
> > By the way, do you still think the 17-35 has worse distortion than
> > Nikkor wideangle primes, or have you recognized the truth yet?
>
> Every single wideangle prime, or do you merely say 'most' or 'a few'.
> Did any of your tests take into account the wide sample variation
> reported in those lenses?
>
> B>

Bruce:

Bjorn Rorslett reported on some sample variation a long time ago, but
I don't recall anything ever being said about distortion variation.
Have you?  If so, then please point me to it so that I can take it
into account.  I'm not about to go out and buy a boxfull of $1400
lenses when I already own a perfectly good one.


If you read my tutorial on image processing techniques for correcting
distortion and lateral color you will discover exactly which prime
lenses I'm talking about.  You will also discover quantitatively how
much less distortion the 17-35 has than these prime lenses:
http://www.caldwellphotographic.com/TutorialsDistortionAndColorFringing.html

By the way, distortion is one of the most stable aberrations with
respect to manufacturing errors.  Why?  Because the ray displacement
due to distortion is typically far greater than ray displacement due
to other errors like coma or astigmatism.  Thus a manufacturing error
that might cause a large change in some aberrations will hardly affect
distortion at all.  In certain applications like stepper lenses for
photolithography the distortion must be corrected to within a fraction
of a micron, and manufacturers will sometimes put in a distortion
correcting plate tailor-fit to a certain manufactured lens.  But this
is an extreme case that has nothing to do with the comparatively huge
amounts of distortion present in most wideangle 35mm lenses.

Brian



Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 
From: Bob Shell [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Rollei] SL66 or SLX, opinions? (was Rolleiwide? Who cares?)

Edward Meyers at [email protected] wrote:
> I've had my two Rollei SL66 bodies and six lenses since
> 1968. Still going strong. Tilting lens is great to work with. Ed
>

Did you know that the Hartblei folks now have a tilt/shift lens for
medium format?  Yeah, I just got one.  Comes in mounts to fit most
medium format SLRs with focal plane shutters.  45mm focal length.

Bob


From: [email protected] (Dean)
Newsgroups:
sci.image.processing,comp.graphics.apps.photoshop,alt.graphics.photoshop,rec.pho
to.equipment.35mm
Subject: Lens tilt and curvature distortion correction
Date: 10 Feb 2002 


Grasshopper's ImageAlign™ program corrects both lens tilt and
curvature (fish eye) distortions in a single pass without the need for
expensive tilt shift lenses. Available in Photoshop Plugin or stand
alone application (Mac and PC). free download demo available.

See www.imagealign.com



From: "Tony Spadaro" [email protected]
Newsgroups: sci.image.processing,comp.graphics.apps.photoshop,alt.graphics.photoshop,rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Lens tilt and curvature distortion correction
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002


 There is also Free Transform which allows you to move each handle
independently of all the others.

--
http://home.nc.rr.com/tspadaro/
The Camera-ist's Manifesto


From: Karen Nakamura [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Another silly "which camera?" thread: Bronica SQ-B
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002


> True. Alas!
> It's always that &*#^%$ shift option (needed in very few shots, but needed
> none the less) that requires us to carry more than we would want. Now why is
> that? Why don't all (!)manufacturers include a decent (and affordable...)
> shift lens in their line up? :-(

I'm sure this is a rhetorical questions, but there's a reason why there
aren't that many shift lenses:

 1. Diaphragm / leaf shutter linkages. Not all lens systems allow
    for electronic diaphragms and mechanical linkages are cumbersome
    when shifting / tilting. The Mamiya RZ's ability compared to the
    RB is an example here.

 2. The mount is not large enough to provide clearance for
    the tilt/shift action. This is both physical clearance as well as
    optical clearance. Many camera interiors weren't designed for
    the larger image circle of a T/S camera and would internally flare.

 3. The market is tiny. Camera makers have enough trouble with
    people who couldn't be bothered to focus or *WALK* (horrors!)
    to reframe rather than zoom.


Karen Nakamura




Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 
From: ralph fuerbringer [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Shift lens for EOS?

i have the EOS A2E and the 90 ts canon.  these lenses are not outofocus,
because they manipulate the plane of focus--that is their purpose. Howver,
they are automatic in exposure, the auto diaphrams work as the eos is not
mechanical but electronic in operation.  you can easily get a plug for your
widepan bu comparing angle of coverage.  For examply, here is a shameless
nifty plug for my Vistashift-612 camera with 35apo=grandagon: the 35apo lens
on 612 covers more than twice the widest shift lens available for the 35mm
format. The widest 35m format lens is
the Canon tilt and shift 24mm. my vistashift-612xxxide is the equivalent ofl
an 11.5 shift lens on 35mm according to view camera. ralph

maker of the vistashift-612 rectilinear cameras
http://medfmt.8k.com/mf/vvista612.html


> From: "George S. Pearl" [email protected]
> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Shift lens for EOS?
>
> Hi Mike,
> Will that lens work on an EOS-A2E camera? You know, auto focus etc. kind.
> (P.S.  I could not figure a way to work in a sales pitch for the new 140
> degree WIDEPAN  camera {which will be introduced at the PMA show in Orlando}
> from your ad. Actually, I think you did it better than I could have done in
> your original sales notice of your lens  :-) Thanks for the plug.
> My best,
> George



Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 
From: xato0 [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: [PentaxMF] Shift-Tilt for P645

I just purchased a Harblei 45mm tilt-shift lens through Kiev USA and
thought that the group might be interested. The adapter to the Pentax
was $35. I posted a photo in the photo section to the left.

http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/pentaxmf/vwp?.dir=/Xato&.dnm=3110
2109.jpg&.src=gr&.view=t&.hires=t

The lens was tilted at max of 6 deg and focused on the closest
flower. Infinity is not quite in focus in this photo. No shift was
used. (Sorry about the poor flatbed scan.)

According to lens tests I found on the web, f11 and f16 are the
sharpest apertures.

Next time I'll test it against the Pentax 45mm and the 35mm.

Warren


From minolta mailing list:
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 
From: "wsrphoto" [email protected]
Subject: Re: Russian PC lenses--seems like it's real...

--- In ManualMinolta@y..., "Simon Boudreau" navigroups@h... wrote:
> love those lenses...just wondering why you would need tilt
> and the likes with a SLR...what advantages does it have, anyone
> tested it ?
>

Good question, but until you've used one, it's hard to see what you
gain.  Both shift and tilt in a 35mm lens offers something of the same
lens movement as a large format camera (lensboard).  It's interesting
the Arsat lens does not appear to have automatic aperture linkage
making it a preset lens, but allowing full circular movement of the
tilt.  Canon's, as I understand, has limited tilt, either with or
perpendicular to the shift.

Tilt offers the ability to extend the depth of field for a given
aperture where it's match the depth of several f-stop smaller, for
example getting a depth of a f22 with a f5.6-8 aperture, bringing both
close and distant object into focus.  Outdoor Photographer did an
article on the Canon lens about two years ago.

Shift movement is great to have in the field, getting major changes in
the photograph without moving the tripod.  Minolta's lens is somewhat
unique with the variable focus control (borrowed from the 24mm VFC
lens), something I haven't seen it on any other shift lens for 35mm
slr's.

Can someone translate the German in the Schneider lens?  At 28mm it
looks inviting, but I can't remember enough German to find
information, especially dealers.  I couldn't find it on the English
version of their Web site.

--Scott--


From minolta mailing list:
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 
From: "markgroep" [email protected]
Subject: Re: Russian PC lenses--seems like it's real...

--- In ManualMinolta@y..., "wsrphoto"  wrote:
> Can someone translate the German in the Schneider lens?  At 28mm it
> looks inviting, but I can't remember enough German to find
> information, especially dealers.  I couldn't find it on the English
> version of their Web site.
>
> --Scott--

Scott,

The translation is (excuse any mistakes please):

"The optical performance of this twelve-element construction remains
convincing even at extreme shifts.  This is accomplished through use
of a floating system, which guarantees an even (high) quality over
the complete range of adjustment down to 0.28 m.
Thanks to the large image circle and the mechanical construction it
is possible to shift the lens from the optical axis by 11mm
horizontal and 9.5mm vertical."

Unfortunately there is no english version of this part of their web-
site, but technical specifications are available as pdf files by
clicking on the little grey dots shown to the right of the lens.

I only know a dealer in the UK here (who do accept overseas orders
A.F.A.I.K).  They are "Robert White".  Their link to the lens:

http://www.robertwhite.co.uk/lenses.htm#LabelSchneiderPCSA

Price is in GBP, excluding V.A.T (17.5% in the UK).  So that would be
about 1,700 to 1,800 US Dollar I guess.  Ouch...

Mark



From minolta mailing list:
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 
From: "celicav8" [email protected]
Subject: Re: Russian PC lenses--seems like it's real...

My 35mm shift came with an M42-mount and a Nikon mount. You have to
unscrew three screws, fit the appropiate mount in the right way (a
bit confusing, since you have to be careful not to mount
it "twisted") and refix the screws. I mounted the M42-mount and
screwed a Minolta adapter to it after having put some drops of
industrial grade glue on the threads. Never comes off, never gets
loose.

Bert

--- In ManualMinolta@y..., "Simon Boudreau" navigroups@h... wrote:
> love those lenses...just wondering why you would need tilt and the likes
> with a SLR...what advantages does it have, anyone tested it ?
>
> New! Peleng 8mm f3.5 Fisheye. Lens kit Includes two basic camera adapters:
> one Pentax M-42 screw mount adapter AND your choice of one Nikon OR Minolta
> OR Canon OR Konica mount. (Specify when ordering.)
>
> Simon
>
> >Hi all,
> >
> >If you want more info on this subject, go to:
> >
> >http://www.kievcamera.com/camera.php?ID=17


From hasselblad mailing list:
Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 
From: Peter Walker [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HUG] Shift lens for Hasselblad

Evan,

The other perspective control alternative for the 2000/200 series is the
PC-Mutar 1.4x Teleconverter that Hasselblad / Zeiss make for their whole
camera range.   I own one for my 205.   It works quite well in conjunction
with the FE 50mm lens.  Of course, because it does not have the data
connection, you have to remember to manually stop down the lens to use the
camera's inbuilt exposure meter.

In addition to all the usual lens tests (sharpness, distortion, vignetting,
etc) you'd want to test the Kiev's shift functions.   In other words, you
could test the degree to which the camera can be inclined upwards (or
downwards) and still be able to correct the verticals back to parallel.
You would need to look closely at the corners of the test images to see if
there is any vignetting or distortion at full shift setting.   The
likelihood of problems increases as the coverage circle of the lens moves
further out of alignment with the centre of the film.

I'd be interested in hearing about the results of your tests.

Regards
Peter
Bangkok, Thailand
Email: [email protected]
URL: http://www.peterwalker.com



From hasselblad mailing list:
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 
From: Evan J Dong [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HUG] Shift lens for Hasselblad

Peter,

The shift that I bought is strictly a shift lens that will allow me to
shift in any direction.  There isn't any tilt feature with this lens.
SO far, this lens is suppose to shift from 0 to 10 mm AND I can rotate
the the lens from 0 to 360 degree to help the perspective of my
final image to be taken.

Based on what the owner of Kiev Camera, Mike Fourman, told me: this was
part of a small batch of lenses made for  the Hasselblad
2000 / 200 series camra bodies.  Hartblei (the manufacturer) will custom
made it, BUT with a minimum order of 10 lenses.


I am currently waiting for them to fabricate the 30mm Zodiak / Arsat
lens in Hasselblad mount.  (WITH THE REAR FILTERS INTACT)

I plan to test this lens against my 60mm DIstagon CF lens.

Evan


From Minolta mailing list:
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 
From: "dynax7top" [email protected]
Subject: Re: Arsat tilt/shift for MD mount - check it out

Hi Mike!

The Arsat lenses are going for about 400EUR roughly 400 US$ without
shipping. The cheapest I saw was a used one for 170 EUR (US$) on
German Ebay...

Here is a link:
http://www.arsenal-photo.com/tilt.htm

There is another German mailorder company that offers a very similar
lens under the label "B.I.G.". As far as I recall there was a slight
difference in the length of way for either T or S; sorry don't recall.

The BIG is priced slightly higher at little to no advantage,
therefore my favour goes to the Arsat. Built after approx. 1993/94
they are supposed to have had better QC in the Arsat (=Kiev) factory.

Hope it helps?

Marcus

--- In Minolta@y..., "mikelip2002" mlipphardt@a... wrote:
> I've never seen even a picture of one.  Found one on eBay though.
> Kind of neat looking.  I wonder what they're really worth?
>
> Mike



from minolta mailing list:
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 
From: "Olaf Ulrich" [email protected]
Subject: B.I.G. Arsat lenses (was: auto bellows III)

Chuck "pluma1001"wrote:
> Will have to save up some money
> and then look at the Arsat lenses.

B.I.G. is the name of the manufacturer; Arsat ist the name of those
shift and shift/tilt lenses for 35-mm SLR cameras.

There are three Arsat lenses for 35-mm cameras available:

  - Arsat Shift 35 mm f/2.8  (EUR 449 = $425 US)
  - Arsat Shift&Tilt 35 mm f/2.8  (EUR 599 = $570 US)
  - Arsat Shift&Tilt 80 mm f/2.8  (EUR 519 = $490 US)

For a 35-mm camera, an 80 mm shift lens does not make too much
sense.  But the two 35 mm lenses (which differ only mechanically,
not optically) are quite interesting.  They are available for Minolta
SR mount as well as for Minolta AF mount (among others) but they
offer no auto-focus and no automatic diaphragms.

Here in Germany, they are available through Foto-Brenner, a large
mail-order retailer.  However, they ship only within the European
Community and to Switzerland.  There are more sources, of course,
but I don't know any right now.


Regards,
Olaf
--
Olaf Ulrich, Erlangen (Germany)
[email protected]



Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 
From: James Michael Lennon [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: [HUG] Hasselblad F cameras

In response to my previous question about shift lenses, I was
directed to Zoerk.com, where they sell a Mamiya 50mm shift lens
modified for use on Hasselblad focal plane shutter cameras.

I am more familiar with 500C series cameras and lenses. Is there any
reason to think that HB focal plane shutter bodies and lenses are
less reliable than the HB C versions? Any other drawbacks/advantages?

Jim 


From: Michael Briggs [email protected]
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.apps.gimp,rec.photo.equipment.large-format
Subject: Re: More on digital perspective correction
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 


Leonard Evens wrote:
>
> If my analysis is correct, there is no way to automatically apply
> perspective correction to an image and get everything right, just using
> information from the image.  If anyone sees anything wrong with my
> reasoning, I stand ready to be corrected.

As another poster pointed out, it seems that digital correction of
converging verticals is more analogous to correcting at the enlarging
stage than with a view camera.  In the view camera, you simply level the
camera and shift the lens upward.   In the enlarger, you have to tilt
the easel, and if you want to maintain ideal focus, the lens.   This
process will also convert the rectangular frame of the image into a
trapezoid, so that returning to a rectangular crop means losing some of
the image -- something to keep in mind when making the photo with a
camera.

If you have converging lines in the image that you want parallel, then
the image contains the necessary information.

R. Kingslake gives the mathematics for the case of using an enlarger in
his book "Lenses in Photography: the practical guide to optics for
photographers",
Garden City Books, 1951.  The key quantity is the distance P to the
point at which the converging lines converge.

Two additional mathematical treatments of correcting in the enlarging
stage is given by Sideny Ray in the book "Applied Photographic Optics".

> A related question is the following.   Any of these measures introduce
> "distortions" when compared to what the eye/brain visual system sees.
> If you look at a tall building from relatively close up, you have to
> turn your head up and look at an angle.  Yet although the images of the
> verticals on your retina are not parallel, in most circumstances you see
> them that way.   Your visual system can't do what the view camera does
> when you shift the lens upward relative to the back; you can just look
> at the upper half of the scene while centering your vision at ground
> level, for example.   So the questiona rises as to whether digital
> perspective correction should be doing something other than reproducing
> what one would do with a view camera, and, if so, what?

The correction of converging verticals is artificial and a convention.
At least in our culture and the perspective conventions we have learned
in paintings and photos, parallel verticals look better.  Kingslake
titles the section on the subject "Conventions in Perspective" and
suggests a rough rule that "It appears that an upward or downward tilt
to a camera is undesirable only if it is present to a moderate extent,
and very little objection is raised to converging vertical lines if the
upward or downward tilt is greater than about 30 degrees."

--Michael


from minolta mailing list:
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 
From: "dynax7top" [email protected]
Subject: Re: shift/tilt lens for Minolta. was: bubble level

Hi Manfred (and you others)!

Here are the promised links:

http://www.photo.net/photo/canon/tilt-shift.html

http://home.pages.at/haardt/pcsarsat35.htm

Enjoy the reading.


--- In Minolta@y..., "Maisch, Manfred" manfred.maisch@e... wrote:
> Does anyone have experience with such TS lenses. I think about trying


[Ed. note: be aware that software is now reducing the need for shift lenses in many
applications - and making them more available at more moderate prices as demand goes down!]
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002
From: Tony Galt [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.large-format
Subject: Re: new digital perspective question--photographing archeaological pit walls


Having done some archaeology in my day, I may understand the problem.
I assume that since this problem appears on the large format list, a
large format camera is being used, not a 35 mm. Large format is often
used in making archeological records because of the detail the big
negative records. I cut my teeth in LF many years ago with a Crown
Graphic doing some site photos. Accurate recording of pit walls is
important for relating stratigraphy to artifacts and features found in
the site.

I assume also that no lens wide enough to cover the wall from the
other side of the pit is available (these seem to be rather large
pits--we used to excavate 6 footers on the side in California). (I
actually do not quite understand John's posting--he talks about
foreshortening, but does he mean barrel distortion or something of
that sort?) Hence it is necessary to make photos from the rim of the
pit, which results in keyhole distortion without either using
movements (which would be pretty extreme in any case) or somehow
correcting on the computer.


I suggest you take a look at a program called Picture Window Pro which
runs on Windows PCs. It allows you to superimpose a grid on an image
and then to pull the grid around to correct converging verticals and
other problems. You'll need to experiment to see if this meets your
needs. You'll find a shareware version if you do a search on Digital
Light and Color, although I'm not sure that capability is a feature of
that version. It is an outstanding general photo editing program at a
fraction of the price of PhotoShop.  I use it exclusively and prefer
it to the latter. If the problem is barrel or pincushion distortion,
the program also includes a feature that corrects for these problems.

Tony Galt


From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Nikon PC lens question
Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 

No, it will be about the same size (angle of view) as with a normal 28mm
lens when it is used in the neutral shift position.  It isn't the angle of
view that changes as the lens is shifted nor is it the angle of coverage, it
is the part of the subject that is covered as it would be with a view
camera.  The lens has a very large potential angle of coverage (not angle of
view) but, of course, only a part of the film coverage roughly equal to that
of a 28mm lens will be available at any given setting of the shift control.
What part of the subject you see changes, not the image size as you shift
the elements.

You get two advantages.  In the neutral setting, the lens is using the
"sweet spot" at the center of the front element and, therefore, it provides
better corner sharpness than a regular 28mm lens would provide.  When
shifted, the advantage is different.  When shifted it allows you to change
the part of the subject that is viewed so that you can eliminate or reduce
keystoning like you can with shifts on a view camera.   What you give up is
open aperture indexing.  It is a preset lens.  Also through-the-lens
metering can be problematic (seems to work well with the F3, though) with
most cameras so you're likely to need a handheld meter to use it.  It is the
only 28mm Nikkor I own any more and is easily the best of the Nikkor 28's
optically as long as you can get accustomed to a preset lens that you can't
use effectively with in-camera metering.

Fred
Photoforums
http://www.photoforums.net

"Michael Sherman" [email protected] wrote
> I have a Nikkor D 20-35 f2.8 which is a wonderful lens. I do lots of
> architectural photography. At the wide end, it has an angle of view of 94
> degrees. I'm pondering acquiring a Nikkor 28mm f3.5 PC (shift) lens. The
> angle of view varies according to which book you read, (Moose Peterson says 
> it has an total angle of view of 74 plus 10 for the shift =84) (Braczko's
> Nikon System book says a total of 92 degrees.) Assuming it is 92 versus the
> 94 of the zoom, can anybody with experience with the lenses tell me if I'm
> going to get a larger image of the building in my frame with the shift lens?
> With the image from the 20-35, I fit the whole building in, & just crop the
> bottom. In theory the shift lens crops before you take the shot. Does anyone
> with experience with the 2 lenses have any comments?
>
> --
> [email protected]
> www.msphoto.ca


Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002
From: "John Houghton" [email protected]
Newsgroups:comp.graphics.apps.gimp,comp.graphics.apps.photoshop,rec.photo.equipment.large-format
Subject: Re: Digital perspective correction


"Jorma U. Heikkinen" [email protected] wrote 
Excuse me, but what does "stitching a single image" mean, and how does one
do it?

The core of the Panorama Tools software is PTStitcher.  This produces the
final stitched panorama from the set of image files and a parameter file
that describes how the images are to be aligned and what type of geometric
projection is used for the output. (cylindrical, spherical etc).  The image
alignment is performed by another program - PTOptimizer.  Matching features
in overlapping images are marked by assigning pairs of control points.
PTOptimizer slides the images around so as to bring the pairs of points into
alignment.  All of this is performed with the images mapped onto the surface
of a sphere.  The idea is that the images end up such that if you were to
look out from the centre of the sphere, you would see exactly the scene that
the camera saw.


Now to your question:  one of the options in the optimizer is to specify
pairs of control points in the same image along a horizontal or vertical
edge.  The optimizer, in its jiggling process, will try to position the
images such that the marked eges are brought into a vertical or horizontal
alignment.  So, you take just one image and mark some vertical images such
as edges of buildings.  Then you let the optimizer figure out how to
position it on our imaginary spherical surface so that the marked vertical
edges are properly aligned.  This will happen when the horizon in the image
is aligned with the equator of the sphere.  Then PTStitcher does the
required ouput projection (not caring that there is only one image stuck
onto its sphere).  Usually a recilinear projection will be chosen for this -
imagine a light shining from the centre of the sphere casting an image onto
a flat piece of paper held against the sphere at its equator.  A cylindrical
projection will also give  vertcal vertcals (but curved horizontals).

Mention should be made of the "helper" programs PTGui and PTAssembler.
Either of these can be used to provide an improved graphical user interface
to Panorama Tools.  They make it easy to control the whole process of
placing control points and optimizing the placement of images and doing
trial stitches etc.

Phew!  Yet more detail can be found in my tutorial at
http://homepage.dtn.ntl.com/j.houghton/pttute.htm

John


From contax mailing list:
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 
From: muchan [email protected]
Subject: [Contax] Another shift lens maker in Germany

I happened to come to a web page of someone in Germany who
makes 45mm Shift lens that fits medium format cameras
including Contax 645.

If anyone interested, it is here:
"http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/fotowiese/e/etop_n.htm"

They make their original "Pentasix" camere, based on Kiev,
(isn't it confusing with "Pentacon 6" isn't it?)
and so it's a company like Hartblei in Czeck ripublic.

muchan


From hasselblad mailing list:
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 
From: "Q.G. de Bakker" [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HUG] ACCESSORIES FOR CHRISTMAS

Frank Filippone wrote:

> ...a perspective control SLR body.......  None of this tiny VF stuff with
a
> GG....  If Rollei could do it years ago with the SL66, why can;t
> Hasselblad...

That's what i want too. That is, a good PC, shift lens, not the limited
amount of tilt the SL66 has to offer.


> BTW, I suggested to Zeiss that they approach Hasselblad with at least the
> Super Angulon PC lens they put on the Bronica, etc.....  they kinda
> poo-pooed the idea.....

;-) (I have read your correction).

When they were introducing the Zeiss PC-Mutar, i asked Hasselblad why they
came up with this fiddely thing while such a superb lens like the Schneider
PC SA was available (no need even to ask Zeiss to design a similar thing).
Their answer was short, in effect saying no more than that they thought the
Zeiss PC-Mutar was the "optimum solution".

I suspect that by that time, Hasselblad wanted to sever their links to
Schneider (wasn't Schneider in the same hands as Rollei then?...), so the PC
Super Angulon may not have been an option, and Zeiss certainly had no such
solution to offer.

The Schneider lens is/was very expensive too, and would have cost
considerably more (more than double) than the 40 mm Distagon + PC-Mutar
combo. I think that a new Zeiss PC-Distagon too would (more than likely)
cost not just one arm and one leg. So i suspect low volume/high costs
economics was part of this decision to go with a PC converter instead. A
major part perhaps.

And on the subject of shift lenses: does anyone here have experience with
the Mamiya 645 shift lens? Z�rkendorfer will convert these to fit focal
plane shutter Hasselblads, but is this particular lens good enough?


From hasselblad mailing list:
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 
From: Frank Filippone [email protected]
Subject: RE: [HUG] ACCESSORIES FOR CHRISTMAS

Can you please elaborate?  Where is there some data?

I meant by a PC lens, a lens that would not only shift/rise/fall but
TILT!!!!!!  Near / far focus issues......

Frank Filippone
[email protected]

And on the subject of shift lenses: does anyone here have experience with
the Mamiya 645 shift lens? Z�rkendorfer will convert these to fit focal
plane shutter Hasselblads, but is this particular lens good enough?


Editor's Note: - 45mm Shift Lens by Weise for Contax 645 (limited 100 lens run):
In BJP Equipment News of 23 August 2002 there is an announcement of two new lenses for Contax 645 
AF systems. The Carl Zeiss 45-90mm zoom lens is due in the UK shortly. Weise, a German specialist 
manufacturing firm, is going to produce a 45mm shift lens for the Contax 645 system. 
Only 100 of these specialty lenses are planned, and they are "approved by Zeiss". 
The lenses are expected to cost circa 1,600 British pounds (about $2,500 US$). 
Check Photokina coverage (next month's big show) for photos and details, and 
see British Journal of Photography of the above date for more details... 




Editor's Note: - Orbital Shift Lens Camera from WICA:

In BJP Equipment News of 16 August 2002, a new wide angle shift camera by Wica is announced
(no price yet). The camera can use 38mm, 47mm and 58mm XL lenses by Schneider-Kreuznach. The
metal camera can provide horizontal, vertical, and diagonal shifting of the mounted lenses (in
leaf shutters). Major market is assumed to be architectural and landscape photographers...




From: "Q.G. de Bakker" [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Bronica S2A: tilt/swing/shift?
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002


Steve Hamley wrote:

> Also, you would need rear movements in some architectural situations.
> The LF rule is to control DOF with the front movements and image shape
> with rear movements. If you have image exaggeration due to lens focal
> length/camera position, you will need rear movements to correct it,
> not front. Front rise can keep your buildings from "leaning" over
> though.

May i mention that old clich� that says something about everything being
relative? Front rise is the same as back drop (it's even better to use back
drop, since that allows you to keep the lens where it is, not changing
perspective while trying to get all of the building on film). So what do you
do when your camera only has front rise, and not back drop? Simple. ;-)
Rear movements can be had even though the only moveable part in the camera
is its front. Just tilt/shift/swing the entire setup until the back points
whatever way you want it to, and use the front's tilt/shift/swing to put the
lens where it originally was. It will need some extra large front movements,
true, but it can be done. And combinations of front and back movements can
be mimicked this way too, of course.


From: Patrick Rudin [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: contax 645 shift lens was Re: new WICA ultrawide
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002


Robert Monaghan wrote:

> the strange part is the lenses are made by Weise,
> a german specialty firm rather than Kyocera...

Wiese, Hamburg. He showed me the shift for the contax already last
december. The only news is that it seems to approved by Zeiss now...

> anybody know much about Weise corp? other lenses they've made?

Usually, he adds the mirror lock-up feature in the kiev models - and
sells them as "wiese-kiev". Well, he didnt build a Bronica
SQ-Shift...;-/


regards

Patrick
--
Patrick Rudin - Aeschengraben 17 - CH-4051 Basel
http://www.hoppla.ch/mittelformat/ - Kameras und Technik


From: [email protected] (Hartmut Krafft)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: contax 645 shift lens was Re: new WICA ultrawide
Date: 27 Aug 2002

 [email protected] (Robert Monaghan)
wrote:

>
> interesting, I thought I'd heard the name in the Kiev context, but
> couldn't find it in a quick search (too many hits)
>
> I wonder if this is at all similar to the Kiev 45mm shift lenses?
> Surely they aren't just changing the mounts and charging $2,000 more? ;-)

Wiese says (IIRC) that it's a new design, the glass is made in
the Ukraine, the lens tubus in Poland, the glass is multi-coated
by a swiss firm, and then all is assembled . But
the result seems to have impressed the Contax makers...

Hartmut


From: [email protected] (Evanjoe610)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Date: 08 Oct 2002 
Subject: Re: H1 questions


Q.G. de Bakker,

Basically, that was what was told to me by Mike Fourman.  I will be seeing him
at PhotoPlus Exo. I will present the same question to him.

For everyone who is interested in the Hartblei solution to PCS lenses, please
take note that there are 3 options that I know of from them.

45mmF3.5 PCS
45mmF3.5 PS-T-S
65mmF3.5 PCS

There is also another option, the Arsat 55mF4.5 PCS from Zavod Arsenal OR Kiev
Arsenal. Unfortunately, this lens is out of production.

In order for Hartblei to manufacture any lens for the Hasselblad 200/2000
series mount, they will need a minimum order of at least 10 lens to built
before they go forward.

Now, granted that the majority market of Hasselblad
camera lenses are the 500 series. meaning a shutter lenses.  Hartblei would
need to secure a reliable source of shutters before they start to produce any
lenses.

If there is enough of an order to take for the shutterless lenses such as the
PCS lenses AND also a Hasselblad mount 30mm Fisheye, Hartblei will produce it.
The best person to deal with Hartblei , is Mike Fourman. I have spoken with him
numerous times on this subject. The bottom line is a secure order that will
warrant manufacturing the lenses in quantity.

For this to happen, there must be enough of a demand and commitment to go
forth. So if anyone is interested, tel Mike Fourman that you are interested in
a 3rd Party option for Hasselblad mount lenses.

By the way, I have a Hartblei 65mmF3.5 PCS in Hasselblad 200/2000 mount. It is
sharp andwill give me the shift that I need.

Evan


From: "Max Perl" [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: H1 questions
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002


How wideangle do you need.
The shift restrictions on the Flexbody are:

CF 40/4 (no shift)
CF 50/4 (5mm)
CF 60/3.5 (10mm)

A shame you don't do macro work. A CFI 120mm on a Flexbody is very nice. I use the
tilt / bellows a lot more than the shift.

Max
...


From: "Briggs" [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: perspective correcting software
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002


Is there a perspective correction program for correcting building angles,
etc? For the PC using Windows?

 Bill

Hey Bill,


Try this site http://www.theimagingfactory.com/ and look for their Lens
Correction Tools.


Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 
From: Bryan Olson [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: perspective correcting software


Bill Karoly wrote:
 > Is there a perspective correction program for correcting building angles,
 > etc? For the PC using Windows?

Most of the photo editing packages can widen an image at the top,
but that's not real perspective correction.

Panorama Tools can actually re-map the image to get the same
geometric effect as a shift lens (or the corresponding darkroom
technique).  See:

    http://home.no.net/dmaurer/~dersch/Index.htm


--Bryan


From: "StillMan" [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: perspective correcting software
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002


Lens Doc at http://www.andromeda.com/ - plugin for anything that takes
Photshop plugins.

There is a freeware out there somewhere named Panorama tools that will do it
too, but it isn't quite as easy to use.
--
...


rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
From: "Ray Paseur" [email protected]
Re: PC (shift) lens for MF? 
Tue Nov 05 2002

Mamiya RB/RZ cameras have a tilt/shift adapter available for $1,500+/- and
some places rent it.  It does not give you as much movement as you might
like, but it's OK for tabletop work.  After messing around with it, I bought
a used view camera for less than the cost of the adapter.


From: [email protected] (Neuman - Ruether)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Nikon 28m m PC on N90?
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 

[email protected] (brian)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Neuman - Ruether) wrote 
>>  [email protected] (brian) wrote:
>>
>> I'm not sure I agree with the above... While you
>> may have had a poor sample, the 28mm f3.5 PC Nikkors
>> I've seen were excellent unshifted at f3.5. BTW, I once
>> compared Nikkor 28mm f1.4, 28mm f2.8 (AIS, the good
>> one...), 28mm f4 PC (the earlier one...), and the 28mm-
>> 70mm f3.5-4.5 zoom at 28mm and all at f5.6, of a
>> landscape shot against the sun. I would have guessed
>> that the f2.8 would have produced the best image, with
>> the f1.4 just behind it, with the PC 3rd (and likely to
>> show loss of blacks due to camera internal reflections
>> from the large image circle), and with the zoom last...
>> I would have been wrong. The PC and zoom looked the
>> best in the slides, with the 2.8 a bit behind, and the
>> f1.4 last by a further bit (focus was careful...).
>> BTW, a few view camera lenses perform very well on
>> 35mm - a old Kodak 203mm f7.7 that will cover 5"x7"
>> is an example (it was used on a view camera with a
>> 35mm back on it in a hospital I worked in - results
>> were very crisp). You cannot make predictions about
>> all lenses from theory, though in general, you
>> sometimes can make them about some...;-)

>Hi David:
>My 28mm f/3.5 PC shows substantially more color fringing than my 28mm
>f/2.  When I correct this aberration using Panorama Tools I have to
>use nearly twice as much correction in the former case.  Here are some
>links to some actual test images when these lenses are used on a D1x:
>http://www.caldwellphotographic.com/cc028mm35PCNS.html
>http://www.caldwellphotographic.com/cc028mm20.html  I've gotten
>similar results when using color slide film.  This is for unshifted
>use.


This is interesting material - thanks! (And, I like your
method of showing the differences with the alternating
images!) It may be that aberrations that go un-noted in
most general chemical-photography are painfully evident
as one sees the image magnified on a computer screen,
though I don't remember this much of a problem in the
28mm f3.5 PC (but samples of these do vary noticeably
in other respects [I rate the 28mm f3.5 PCs as 4 to 4.4
{3 samples}, and the 28mm f4 PC as 4.6 {3 samples},
at: www.ferrario.com/ruether/slemn.html, with a note
that the f4 performs better off-axis than the f3.5,
but the f3.5 performs better unshifted wide open...]).
You may prefer another sample of the f3.5, or an f4
sample...

>I've never used any of the lenses you mention (28/2.8, 28/4.0, 28/1.4,
>28-70/3.5-3.5), but I do use the 17-35/2.8, and interestingly this
>zoom is far better than either of my 28mm primes:
>http://www.caldwellphotographic.com/cc01735at28.html


I've heard that for digital camera use, the 17-35
is quite good - and I found it about equals good
non-zooms in its range of FLs (see
www.ferrario.com/ruether/wa-zooms.htm).

>Unfortunately, when you shift the PC lens the radial symmetry of the
>fringing pattern is lost, so it becomes much more difficult to
>correct.  Ideally you'd have to keep track of the exact amount of lens
>shift, which I almost never do.
>
>Brian
>www.caldwellphotographic.com

That would be awkward...;-)
Thanks for the response and the info.

David Ruether
 [email protected]
 http://www.ferrario.com/ruether


From: [email protected] (brian)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Nikon 28m m PC on N90?
Date: 31 Oct 2002 

...(quotes above posting)


Hi David:
Thanks for your comments.  Eventually I'd like to have a larger
database of these tests, and also to include full frame performance.

I've always been disappointed with the corner performance of my 28/3.5
PC.  The center of the image looks great (esp. when viewing Kodachrome
25 slides with a loupe!), but the corners are so soft its really
almost embarrassing.  Thanks for the heads up about the 28/4.  I'll
try one out if I get the chance.

I read your report about the 17-35, and it closely parallels my
experience with this lens.  In my case, I've compared it against a
15/3.5, 20/2.8 AFD, 24/2, 28/2, and 35/1.4.  When used on a D1x, the
17-35 has significantly less distortion and color fringing than any of
the prime lenses.  I agree that some primes have better contrast at
f/2.8, although the zoom does quite well wide-open near the 35mm end.
Since I mainly use wide angle lenses for landscape and architecural
work I almost always stop down to f/8 or f/11, and in this realm the
zoom gives the best performance.

Brian


from contax mailing list:
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 
Subject: Re: [Contax] The 6x6,  the  6x4.5 and the Contax 645.
From: Andre Oldani [email protected]

Hello Richard,

> I was thinking about how much I like the "square" recently.  I was looking
> through the giant Mappelthorp book.  I have always loved some of his early
> photos of Patti Smith, but the book was a revelation.   Yes, it does have
> many photos which are obscene.  I could do without many of them.  But the
> pictures of flowers were awesome.   And the quality of the photos, the
> actual book was lovely.

As I prefer the square for a lot of situations, I switched from Contax 645
to the traditional Hasselblad 6x6.

> And it made me realize that I miss my Rollei TLR!  I was thinking about the
> 645.  If a round lens is made large enough to make a nice 6x45 image won't
> it also make a 6x6 image?   Because a lens is round?  Isn't this how the
> Rollei supports multiple formats?  I realize the existing 645 doesn't look
> like it was made with this in mind but could Contax make a new body, call
it
> the 660 that used the same lenses but made square format pix with 6x6 negs?

Using a lens that was designed for the 6x4.5 on a format 6x6 would depend on
the image circle that the lens has been calculated for (plus some quality
aspects like possible falloff, edge sharpness etc left away for this case
here). The lens forms the picture that it projects on the film as a circle.
The diameter of the circle has to match the format (it is slightly larger,
at least). You can calculate the image circle needed very easily. It is the
diagonal of the format. Assuming the 6x4.5 is in fact 56x42mm you get 70mm
(a^2+b^2=c^2). That for a 6x6 (56x56mm) is 79mm. That means that you can
easily use a lens for 6x6 or larger with the smaller 6x4.5 but not vice
versa. The Rollei lenses have been calculated for the larger 6x6 format.
Therefore you can use their larger image circle for the smaller format.

Schneider makes large format lenses (Super Angulon XL, e.g.) that have an
extended image circle for shift reserve. I use a Super Angulon XL 5.6/58mm
on my ALPA next to the incredible Carl Zeiss Biogon 4.5/38mm. The SA has an
image circle of 166mm (twice what would be needed for 6x6) offering quite a
bit of SHIFT possibility. Shifting the Biogon shows you very clearly its
limitations in that respect and you get pictures not fully covered.

Best,
Andr�
Serious work on www.six-by-six.com



From minolt MF mailing list:
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 
From: "lensman3" [email protected]
Subject: Re: Russian lenses for Minolta

GO THERE NOW!
They are advertising a TILT-SHIFT lens in MINOLTA MOUNT.
Relatively inexpensive.

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Dynax7Top
  To: [email protected]
  Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 
  Subject: [Minolta] Re: Russian lenses for Minolta


  --- In Minolta@y..., "Maisch, Manfred" manfred.maisch@e... wrote:
  > Does anyone know an internet link to that lenses, or something like that?
  > Manfred

  Yepp!

  http://www.arsenal-photo.com/tilt.htm

  Marcus


From minolta mailing list:
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 
From: [email protected]
Subject: When the VC.s and PC lenses becomes obsolete

When the CCD/CMOS chips become so cheap and so large, that the DSLRs are
equipped with quadratic (e.g. 36x36mm) chips, that's when the vertical
control grips as well as the perspective control (shift) lenses become
obsolete. Insted of shifting and tilting and swivelling and turning the
camera, you select what area on the chip is going to be used.

Hee hoo lives will see
regards/ake



From: Michael Briggs [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.large-format
Subject: Re: Drills for view camera use???
Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002

Mark wrote:
............
> Is there a set order at which one should follow to make sure you get the
> best results in focusing.  Rise/fall swing tilt front   tilt swing rear ?
> focus?  Does it matter whether you focus from the front or rear?  Front
> seems to be much more effective for most things for me.
............

There is no single best approach.   The order described by Howard Bond
in his checklist works well.   This was originally published in the
May/June 1998 issue of Photo Techniques and can be found on the web at
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/articles/bond-checklist.html

There are a lot of photos in which tilts/swings are either not needed or
won't help enough to be worth the effort.   Also, the amount of
tilt/swing needed is usually quite small -- if you are having difficulty
you may have tried too much.

--Michael


From: "Heritage Cameras" [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: PC (shift) lens for MF?
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002


"David Swinnard" [email protected] wrote 
> Do any of the SLR MF systems (other than Pentax 67) have an
> available PC (shift) lens?

Yes - Mamiya 645 (50mm), Mamiya RB67 and RZ67 (75mm), Rollei 6000 series
(55mm), Bronica ETR (55mm - same Schneider lens as Rollei). There are some
independent lenses from the former USSR available in mounts for Kiev 88 and
Kiev 60/Pentacon 6/Exakta 66.

Hasselblad makes a shifting 1.4x converter called the PC Mutar, which allows
shift with many Zeiss lenses on Hasselblad bodies - a 40mm Distagon becomes
a 56mm shift lens.

Zoerk in Germany will adapt some lenses from one system to another - for
example, Mamiya 50mm on Hasselblad (focal plane shutter models only), or any
Pentax 6x7 lens on Pentax 645 with shift...

Hope this helps!


Dave Pearman
Director, Heritage Cameras Limited
http://www.heritagecameras.com


From: [email protected] (Gary Beasley)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: PC (shift) lens for MF?
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002

David Swinnard [email protected] wrote:

>Do any of the SLR MF systems (other than Pentax 67) have an available PC
>(shift) lens? (I am aware of the various  view camera and non-SLR shifty
>body options like Alpa & Cambo)
>
>Dave

The old Bronica S2 camera had a bellows you could get with a rise and
shift adjustment. Too bad they didn't continue this to the new SQA and
SQAi bellows. That and include a bellows mount lens to shoot at
infinity on the bellows.



From: "Sherman" [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: PC (shift) lens for MF?
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002


Dave,
Most of the major manufacturers make such lenses.  However depending upon
your need you might find that a Hartblei lens (rebuilt Kiev) will fill the
bill.  They make a few models from 45mm to 65mm I believe.  They also have a
"super-rotator" which gives both shift and tilt.  You can pick up the lens
and body for about 1/10 what you would pay for the lens alone in some other
systems.

Sherman
http://www.dunnamphoto.com


Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 
From: Gordon Moat [email protected]
Newsgroups:rec.photo.equipment.medium-format,rec.photo.marketplace.medium-format
Subject: Re: medium format and shift lenses


Okay, I should have mentioned that Mamiya has a somewhat low cost shift 50 mm
for the 645.

These guys http://www.badgergraphic.com have it for under $1300. They also stock ALPA 12
lenses, and the under 50 mm choices run $1800 to $2200 . . . not cheap.

The Pentax 75 mm shift for 6x7 runs just over $2200 from the same place. Actually, judging by
the prices of many shift lenses, none of this stuff is very low cost. Not much shows up used
either in the realm of shift lenses. Z�erk and Horseman make some strange adapters, but also
not cheap, and only for a few camera bodies.

With Hasselblad and Rollei, the costs of any shift lenses, bodies, or adapters are quite high,
which prompted one of my considerations. B&H Photo has the Rollei 55 mm shift for $7400, and
the Fuji 50 mm for the 680 about $2800, which are probably the high end of prices. However, I
would imagine that there may be some former Soviet locations that are producing shift lenses
to fit older MF cameras.

Definitely wide angle shooting is not that great with large format. A look at Badger Graphics
again shows several wider than 50 mm LF lenses from Rodenstock and Schneider in the $900 to
$1200 range, which seems economical compared to MF shift lenses. The image circle is at least
125 mm for the smallest, which should cover 6x7 fairly nicely (my 6x9 is 110 mm diagonal),
though not as much movement as longer focal lengths allow.

It would be tough to make one camera fit all situations, and with MF and shift lenses budgets
may dictate alternatives. I would not trade a MF camera just to get a LF camera with a wide
lens and roll film back, since MF is still much more transportable, and convenient.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
Alliance Graphique Studio
http://www.allgstudio.com


Stacey wrote:

> Gordon Moat [email protected]
> wrote:
>
> >Somewhat true, though one Silvestri, an Ebony, a couple Horseman choices, and the ALPA 12
> >line all use large format lenses. Other than the somewhat low cost Pentax and Bronica wide
> >angle lenses, I do not think the cost of the wide (for 120 film) large format lenses is
> >much higher, and is actually lower in some situations (like some used choices).
>
> But any of the wide angle LF lenses that are wide on 6X9 (like under
> 50mm) allow little or no movement, most 4x5's have NO movements with
> lenses that short and the modern optics that do allow for some
> movement with under 50mm lenses are stupid expencive.
> >
> >The other advantages with the 4" by 5" cameras is the tilting and swing movements. These
> >may be a bit less important for architecture shots than the shift adjustments, but they
> >can come in handy. A smaller film frame (even 6x9) gives you more room for all movements.
> >
>
> Unless you need a wide angle.
>
>
> Stacey



From: "David J. Littleboy" [email protected]
Newsgroups:rec.photo.equipment.medium-format,rec.photo.marketplace.medium-format
Subject: Re: medium format and shift lenses
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 


"Gordon Moat" [email protected] wrote:

> Okay, I should have mentioned that Mamiya has a somewhat low cost shift 50 mm for the 645.
> These guys http://www.badgergraphic.com have it for under $1300.

That's pretty steep for a Mamiya lens, but that's Mamiya USA, sigh. The
street price in Japan should (I suspect based on the list price) be around
US$1,000, but that's still pretty expensive. But you are right; new brand
name MF shift lenses are expensive.

> Definitely wide angle shooting is not that great with large format. A look at Badger Graphics
> again shows several wider than 50 mm LF lenses from Rodenstock and Schneider in the $900 to
> $1200 range, which seems economical compared to MF shift lenses.

But now I want to disagree. The Mamiya shift lens is a 50mm lens, so you are
looking at lenses that are radical wide angle lenses. Since a 70mm lens in
6x9 would be the same angle of view as the 50mm in 645, a 60mm 4x5 lens
would be a lovely 6x9 shift lens. (You could also put it on a 6x9 field or
view camera, but those tend to be a bit pricey.)

David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan


From Nikon MF mailing list:
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 
From: "Anthony Galt" [email protected]
Subject: RE: Tilt/Shift alternative

I've never used the Horseman contrivance you talk of, but I think it might
limit you to portrait length and longer lenses because I think it would be
difficult to obtain a short enough bellows draw to focus anything shorter. I
belief you can also you large format lenses on it. In some ways it is a bit
like the earlier Nikon bellows (F vintage) that allowed swing. There was a
non-focusing lens (90 or 105, I don't remember, and I'm far away from
references) that could be attached to that and focused to infinity. In one
of his books John Shaw talks about using it to attain greater near/far
sharpness. In any case, the Horseman bellows front would mean a lot of
compromises. Best go large format (and you can use Nikon lenses there too).l

Tony Galt


Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 
From: Robert Feinman [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: New perspective photoshop tip


For those using MF without lens adjustments, I've added a new tip to my
web site about using the different Photoshop perspective adjustment
techniques to fix converging verticals when taking pictures of buildings.
Follow the tips heading on the main page.

--
Robert D Feinman
[email protected]
Landscapes, Cityscapes, Panoramic Photographs: http://robertdfeinman.com


From minolta mailing list:
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 
From: "wsrphoto" [email protected]
Subject: Re: shift-ca 35mm

--- In ManualMinolta@y..., "Dale Jehning" bamjdsj@i... wrote:
> I just don?t see that much effect from it, shift or curvature
> control. I am able to get proper exposure. Should I be using close
> to wide open to make shallow depth of field for more dramatic
> effect with the curvature mode? When using the shift, should I get
> close up on the 2-story building I am trying to photograph?
>
> Thank you, dale Jehning.

I would suggest you use the lens similar to what large format
photographers do, start from a "normal" postion and adjust to get the
photo you want.  This means starting with the lens centered, where you
can get the initial exposure reading (I wouldn't necessarily trust the
camera's exposure reading once the lens is moved off-center).  Set the
film plane parallel to the subject, eg. building, and then use the
shift to set the photo.  And then use the VFC to move the depth of
field.

The VFC effect can be dramatic but reading the material and using both
VFC lenses, it seems to me to be seen only on the outer edges of the
lens.  It is dramatic when you have a close subject and a wide
aperature but smaller apertures with larger, distant subjects can be
helped, especially if you have to tilt the lens to get the subject
completely in view.

I don't necessarily agree with Olaf about leaving some distortion in
the photo.  The goal, in my view, is to remove the distortion, but
that's really a personal choice.  Also, I haven't found the need for
more shift, tilt maybe, but not more shift.  I understand the limit of
the shift is due to the image circle of the lens which is at its limit
at 11mm any direction (I could be wrong there, but why are almost all
shift lenses set to 11mm limit?).

Just a another perspective...

--Scott--


From: Stacey [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: homebrew and Kiev shift lenses Re: medium format and shift lenses
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 

 [email protected] (Robert Monaghan) wrote:
>see http://medfmt.8k.com/bronshift.html on homebrew shift lenses for 6x6cm
>moreover, the kiev shift lenses are relatively low cost, and offer 45mm
>variants (also 55mm and 65mm); prices are so low you can buy the matching
>camera and still save a lot over other pro model offerings...

On the kiev optics, the shift 45mm is a "normal" lens that has been
modified for shift, it just happens to cover more that the designed
format. While it works OK, it does suffer from curvature of field that
increases as you increase shift in the corners. Many times there is
sky in this area so it isn't a concern. On a 6X4.5 it would work
better?

http://www.rickdenney.com/hartblei.htm

The 55mm shift arsat was designed as a shift lens and all reports I've
read from users praise it highly but they are very hard to find. I
have no idea about the results with the 65mm version.

Stacey


From nikon MF mailing list:
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003
From: "John O'Connell" [email protected]
Subject: Re: Tilt/Shift Alternative

I believe the shortest lens you can use at infinity with the Horseman VCC is
135mm (in an LF mount, presumably a Copal 0). It's also fantastically
expensive, to the point where if you think you need one of these, you may as
well just get a Sinar.

John



From nikon MF mailing list:
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 
From: "John O'Connell" [email protected]
Subject: Re: Tilt/Shift Alternative

Hmmm... B&H charges $1950 for the VCC. It'll take a lens as short as 80mm.
The reason it required a long lens was that it changes the flange focal
length of the camera by the minimum length of the VCC: it's like putting a
giant extension tube on your camera.

A assume you could adapt enlarger lenses or other barrel lenses to it. I
got as far as the minimum focal and price and then quit paying attention. 
Zoerk makes something called the multi-focus tube which is smaller and
cheaper than the Horseman kludge. I'm sure they've been slow sellers since
Nikon released the PC Micro-Nikkor.

A PB-4 & a 105/4 Nikkor P is probably a superior setup anyway if you're dead
set on using 35mm.

John



From nikon mf mailing list:
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 
From: Lucio [email protected]
Subject: Re: tilt shift alternatibe

Hello there

about tiil/shift on Nikon bodies :
there are three altenatives that I know of :
a) the already mentioned Horseman/Schneider bellow + medium-large format lenses
http://www.schneideroptics.com/cameras/horseman/view_camera_converters/for_35mm_slr/
http://horsemanusa.com/pd_frame032.html
b) the Zoerk (Zork) shift adapter + medium-large format lenses
http://www.zoerk.com/pages/p_psa.htm
c) the italian Free Eye
http://www.freeeye.com

Everyone of these items couples a shift -sometimes tilt - mechanism - to
a Nikon body via an F mount but ALL need medium=/large format lenses to
cover the increased circle of confusion, i.e. the image projected on the
film surface.

If you want a dedicated shift (sometimes tilt) lens on Nikon F mount you
must go to :
Nikon PCs, 28mm shift only/35mm shift only /80mm tilt and shift;

or to Arsat 28, 35 and 80mm http://www.kosara.net/photo/arsatshift.html)

or Schneider PC super angulon http://www.schneideroptics.com/photography/large_format_lenses

I think Angenieux of France used to make one too;

or you can adapt an Olympus 24mm, 28mm or the various Canon shift or
tilt and shift lenses.

Of course you lose on metering (you have anyway to meter with the lens UNshifted),

So
a) you go with Nikkors;
b) you won the lottery an can afford a Scheneider adapter with lenses;
c) you've got an inheritance and go with a Zoerk or Freeeye and lenses;
d) you are a lucky owner of previous systems PC lenses and want to spend
some money on adapting them to your Nikons bodies;
e) you decide to plunge on Zen practice and buy a -sometimes-
inexpensive medium/large format camera and lenses;
f) you completly rewrite Photoshop (or whatever graphic program you
prefer) routines to REALLY straigthen the converging verticals .....AND
keep the proportions of your building.
g) I will not mention again my cross breeding experiment of a
Linhof/Nikon clone ;-(

That's all folks ;-)

Pierlucio in Montreal



From nikon manual mailing list;
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 
From: "Anthony Galt" [email protected]
Subject: RE: Correcting Converging verticals

With 35 mm I do this all the time. I do not use PhotoShop. I use Picture
Window Pro which has the capabiity built in in a simple procedure. You
superimpose a grid over the frame and align the verticals on the grid with
the verticals on the building. That corrects convergence, but can lead to
other kinds of distortions. You can then fool around with the grid to get
rid of these. I try to find something in the image that should be round and
use that as a guide. One glitch is that to do this you need working space
around the object you are correcting, so you need to think ahead about that
and use a lens that is a little wider than you might otherwise need. That
may mean a loss of detail because you are in essence backing off some. I
have been able to perform what I see as miracles this way. How about a
Romanesque church in Lucca Italy photographed from across the piazza area in
front of it with a 24 mm lens? You can imagine the convergence. I was able
to correct it so the facade was perfectly rectiliniar as if I had been able
to photograph it about two stories above the ground.

I've never used a PC lens, but I think just shift would be limiting in many
cases. I do use a 4x5 view camera for architectural stuff and find that
while rise alone sometimes works (with the 90mm -- about 28 mm in Nikon 35mm
lenses), often I need further movements to get things fully correct. So I'll
shift to the maximum upwards (rise in LF parlance) and then find (except
with low buildings) that I still have to tilt the whole camera upwards to
get the building in. That in turn means tilting the back so it is parallel
with the building verticals and then tilting the front so it is parallel
with the back. You can't do that with even a tilt/shift PC lens (and those
are really expensive).  The tilt feature on some 35mm format perspective
control lenses is more about increasing depth of field than about correcting
perspective. If you are really serious about architectural photography a
view camera is a must, otherwise you can indeed do a great deal on the
computer screen.



From nikon manual mailing list;
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 
From: "drjh68 [email protected]
Subject: Re: Correcting Converging verticals

Hearty thanks to all for the very helpful comments on this subject. I
think I will probably stick with the Picture Window Pro method as I
do not need this feature often enough to justify the cost of a PC
lens.

Incidentally, I believe that converging verticals can be corrected in
the darkroom by tilting the base, so that you would still have a non-
digital approach to the problem.  Has anyone any experience of that
method?

James Harper


From nikon manual mailing list;
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 
From: Bob Fowler [email protected]
Subject: Re: Re: Correcting Converging verticals

...

The tilting of the paper easel method is an acceptable
alternative to the problem, but... you'll need to use
a small enough aperture when enlarging to make sure
you have enough depth of focus at the paper.


=====
Bob Fowler
[email protected]

Postscript:

Damn! I always think of something else just after I
hit send...

The tilting easel method is best used with an enlarger
that also allows tilting of the lens board. What you
would do is tilt the easel, then tilt the lensboard so
that the plane of the lens board is aligned to
intercept the intersection of the film plane and the
plane of the tilted easel. At that orientation, your
f-stop can be what ever you want.


From nikon manual mailing list;
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 
From: Lucio [email protected]
Subject: Re: Correcting converging verticals

James asked about Nikkors PC and Photoshop used to correct vertical lines

I owe both PCs and I'm a longtime user of Photoshop.  Furthertmore I use
a Technika 6x9 for architectural work.

Short answer : yes you can use Photoshop to correct the falling
(vertical) lines to a certain extent but the best way to correct them is
through a shift of the front end (or back in certain cases) ot the
camera lens.

Why : well Photoshop , through the Select (the part you want to
straigthen) ->Edit->Transform -> Skew or Distort command allows you to
correct the geometry of the image and to adjust it to (optional) a set
of guide lines or grid.


In this case while  you modify laterally your image, you are introducing
quite a vertical compression, or viceversa.

By this method  yes you do obtain a  vertically CORRECTED image but in
the same time the proportions of the building are changed.

 For istance you would never use a Photoshop corrected image in
photogrammetry (the science of using photography data in architectural
measured documentation).

On the contrary the use of a PC lens or a shift camera doesn't introduce
any distortion in the proportion of the building because it only
corrects OPTICALLY the image projected on the film plane.

For instance in real photogrammetry we use Rollei (35 and 6x6) or Zenith
(russian 35mm modified by Silvestri of Florence) calibrated for this use
and some special programs (one was by Leica) to accurately redress the
falling lines.
In these cases normal lenses are used because the geometry is corrected
through the program.

Now, the PCs are mainly used to produce a perspective correct vision of
a building.

What is that? Remember that the perspective rules have been laid down in
the early renaissance by architects like Brunelleschi helped by the best
mathematicians of the time. Further on scores of painters and
illustrators have worked on different perspective projections methods
but one rule never changes : the vertical lines ARE vertical except in
three points projection perspective (or bird's eye view) were the
vertical line converge toward the lower part of the image.

Back to Nikons ; yes they are slow to use because they don't have an
automatic diphragm and you have to meter BEFORE shifting.
But then also a view camera it's a slow instrument compared to poin and shoot.
Anyway I often use the PCs as normal lenses without shift and they are
great both as 28 or 35mm.
Next I'll be using them on a Nikon D100 so I'll have architectural
digital photography without Photoshop ;-)

Ciao

Pierlucio in Montreal

PS In the archives you can find some interestinh threads about PCs and
how to adapt Olympus or Canon PCs to Nikon


From nikon manual mailing list;
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003
From: Manfred Mornhinweg  [email protected]
Subject: Re: Correcting converging verticals


Hi James!

> I am toying with the idea of getting a secondhand Nikon PC lens for
> architectural photography.  On the other hand, some say that PC
> lenses are obsolete, now that programs like Photoshop, Picture
> Window, etc., can correct converging verticals too.

That is true, if you actually are only interested in digital images. I use
digital only for web and e-mail purposes, everything else I do in the good old
chemical way, which gives so much better quality.

But have you thought of the "poor man's PC lens"? That's what I use. It isn't
any special lens at all, but simply a wide to very wide angle lens with low
distortion. The ONLY thing you need to do to avoid converging verticals is to
hold the lens horizontally, instead of pointing up the building! When I want to
picture a building without converging lines, I simply aim so that the center of
the frame is precisely at the same height as the camera is. Of course, in most
situation that means an enormous foreground. So what? Either I find something
interesting to fill it with, or I simply cut it off later! I'm pretty sure that
even if you use only slightly more than half a 35mm frame for the building, the
result is better than pointing up, then scanning the image and using software
for correction of the perspective.

But if you need your pictures in digital format anyway, then go with the
software solution.

The PC lens is a nice, but cumbersome and expensive luxury for specialists. So,
if you ARE a specialist for architecture, and you are willing to haul it around
and set it up, and you have the necessary pocket money, go for it!

Cheers,
 Manfred.
http://www.qsl.net/xq2fod


Warren [[email protected]] 
Sent: Wed 3/5/2003 
To: [email protected] 
Subject: [PentaxMF] Hartblei 45mm Tilt/Shift

Some of you might be interested in getting tilt and shift with your
Pentax 645 body. I recently bought one of these off of eBay and am
pleased with the results.

Please see my (rather messy) page I put up concerning the use of this
lens and some of the results.

http://www.angelfire.com/ca7/xato/newtilt.html

Warren



From: "Brian Ellis" [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Pentax 75mm Shift Lens
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 

It's an excellent lens, I use it all the time. I bought it mainly for the
shift capability since I like to do architectural photography but I've found
that I actually often use it just as a nice moderate wide angle lens
without utilizing the shift capability. Image quality is excellent, the stop
down metering isn't any big deal once you've mistakenly metered wide open a
few times and ruined the photograph.

The down sides are its weight and cost. It's about five inches long and
weighs 33.5 ounces, making it the heaviest of the Pentax 67 lenses (and
that's saying something) short of the monster long lenses. I think the cost
new is now up around $2,200 from Adorama (of course the Rollei shift lens
costs something like $7,000 so $2,200 is a relative bargain) but I've seen
them used on e bay for around $1,200 I think.

If you do any significant amount of photography where it's important to keep
parallel lines from converging, as with architectural photography,
landscapes with trees, etc., I'd recommend it. There really isn't any
feasible alternative for that type of photography unless you like to carry a
ladder around with you. The ability to be used as a moderate wide angle lens
without the shift is an added bonus.

"Robin Coutts" [email protected] wrote 
> Please could I have some opinions of use and experience of this lens
> thanks
> Robin



[Ed. note: a possible source of shift and tilt lenses in mountings?]
From: Jim Brick [[email protected]] 
Sent: Mon 4/7/2003  
To: [email protected] 
Subject: Re: [HUG] available 70 mm film


Most motion pictures are shot through Panavision or Panavision style
lenses, that is, a wide angle that squashes the width on to a standard film
size. Anamorphic lenses. Intentional distortion (as by unequal
magnification along perpendicular axes) of an image. I don't believe Zeiss
makes anamorphic lenses. I could be wrong.

Panavision also makes anamorphic lenses that tilt in all directions for
focus plane control. Slant Focus Lenses: Bellowless lenses that allow
tilting of the focus plane in any direction before or during shooting.

It sounds like Chinese film making is still in the dark ages... Maybe their
stuff is for home movies.

:-)

Jim


From: "Q.G. de Bakker" [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Hartblei
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 

Q.G. de Bakker wrote:

> Jeremy wrote:
>
> > You can get PC lenses from Ukrainian manufacturers in both Pentax and  Nikon
> > mounts.
>
> And Canon EOS, Minolta Dynax, Contax/Yashica, Olympus OM, Leica R, Canon FD,
> M 42, and Minolta MD mount as well. [...]

And i forgot to repeat this, but the tilt&shift version will not (!!!) fit
Nikon AF bodies, because the prism is in the way. Only manual focus Nikon.


From minolta mailing list:
Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: tilt lens

[email protected] writes:
> Is there any kind soul on the list that would be
> willing to explain this to me?

Better yet go to Shaw's website and get a quick education..
Good luck,
Bill B. (USA)
http://www.photosafaris.com/TiltLenses.asp  Photo Safaris - Tilt Lenses



From minolta mailing list:
Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 
From: Robert Lynch [email protected]
Subject: Re: tilt lens

 "Michael & Sans Washington" [email protected] wrote:
>I understand the principle behind the shift lens and how it provides
>perspective control but I can't quite get how a tilt lens works in achieving
>its depth of field effect. Is there any kind soul on the list that would be
>willing to explain this to me?

The Scheimpflug principle. Try here:
http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=004HFT

here:
http://www.galerie-photo.com/profondeur-de-champ-scheimpflug-english.html

or this is sufficiently dense reading:
http://www.trenholm.org/hmmerk/SHBG06.pdf


From nikon mf mailing list:
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 
From: "Charles F Seyferlich" [email protected]
Subject: Re: 35 PC




> I just picked up a used 35 PC, and, while I'm familiar with the basic
> concepts (due to view camera experience), I don't get the significance
> of the 8 - 7- 8 - 11 numerals on the base of the rotating mount. Any
> help?
>
> -Lew

Maybe this web page will help (the numbers seem to be amount of shift in
mm - I have owned several shift lenses but I find my memory isn't what it
used to be and I completely forget details of these lenses)

http://www.uscoles.com/pclens.htm



From: Roman J. Rohleder [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Zeiss Jena lenses on a P67?
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 

"Bandicoot" "insert_handle_here"@techemail.com schrieb:
>Do you happen to know if the 50 has the coverage? Since the Arsenal 45mm is
>available in shift mounts that don't vignette 6x6 until about 10mm of shift
>is applied, I imagine that would cover 6x7 - though it is not the greatest
>lens in the world.

I have seen modified Flek's on fleabay - those were converted to
Shift-Flektogon.

But I am sorry, I can't remember wether they were just hooked on a
adapter, not worriying about field coverage, nor I am able to remember
the shift range.

>Come to think of it, the Arsenal 65 and 55 are also available as shift
>lenses, so it seems there is a family of large coverage lenses coming out of
>the Ukraine.

And to speak for the 55mm - it's just a great thing. Affordable, good
in construction, a bit limited in shift, but optically a "user".

Mine -the Arsat C PCS 4,5/55- has a shift limit of 12mm. And Zavod
Arsenal never produced lenses for a system larger than 6x6 medium
format - that lens has been designed as a PCS.

Gruss, Roman



From: "Bandicoot" "insert_handle_here"@techemail.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Zeiss Jena lenses on a P67?
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 

"Stacey" [email protected] wrote 
> Bandicoot wrote:
>
> > "Ralf R. Radermacher" [email protected] wrote
> >> Is there a known way to use Pentacon Six lenses other than the two Meyer
> >> telephotos on a Pentax 67?
> >>
> >> I'm thinking of the 50 mm Flektogon etc.
> >>
> >> Ralf
> >>
> > Do you happen to know if the 50 has the coverage? Since the Arsenal 45mm
> > is available in shift mounts that don't vignette 6x6 until about 10mm of
> > shift is applied, I imagine that would cover 6x7 - though it is not the
> > greatest lens in the world.
> Some are/some aren't. I have a hartblei MC'd and remounted Mir45 that is
> wonderful. I would think a good one might be worth adapting? But then again
> the pentax lenses aren't that expencive either. I can see why someone would
> want to adapt the 180 sonar though!
> > Come to think of it, the Arsenal 65 and 55 are also available as shift
> > lenses, so it seems there is a family of large coverage lenses coming out
> > of the Ukraine.
> The 55 shift is another really nice lens. They seem to be making these in MC
> versions now and work great!
> Stacey

Agreed! I have a Hartblei 45mm T&S and an Arsat 55mm Shift and they are
both very nice - the Hartblei 45 is for sure not as sharp as the Zeiss 50 -
but it does seem to be much better than what I have seen of other 45s. I
suspect this is simply better 'mechanics' meaning that the elements are
better centred. I hear good things about the 65 too, but have never tried
one myself.

What I'd really like, though, would be an 80, or even a 120, with tilt.

I like Ralf's idea: it would certainly be nice to be able to use some of
these lenses on a P67 - if it could be done without messing up the lens it
would be a very good way for me to stick with the 6x6 that I like, but still
be able to shoot 6x7 ocassionally for those few jobs that really call for
it. At the moment it means a 67 roll-film back on my ancient monorail,
which is hardly convenient!

Peter


From contax mailing list:
From: "Pat Perez" [email protected]
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 
Subject: [Contax] Zoerk adapter for sale

I have sold all of my Pentacon 6 gear, so I can no longer use my
Zoerkendorfer adapter. It allows mounting medium format Pentacon/Kiev 6
mount lenses onto Contax bodies. It is the panoramic shift adapter, not the
basic P6>Contax adapter. It allows up to 20mm of shift to control
perspective distortion (it can rotate, as well).

In addition to the shift capability, it can be locked into place at 18mm
offset, then a picture is taken. After that, the whole mount flips over 180
degrees to make the proper displacement for a second photo to be taken that
can be easily stitched to the first for a 24x72mm panoramic image. It isn't
as elegant as a Hasselblad XPan camera, but it allows you to do something
the XPan can't: make extra wide photos (XPan only makes 24x65 images). Also,
you get the shift capability that the XPan lacks.

I have used the mount to quite good effect on my Aria even with the Zeiss
Jena 180mm f2.8 Sonnar lens handheld (in fact, my 2nd place entry in the
Contax competition 'Happenings' 2 years ago was shot in this manner).

The Zoerk web site does a far better job describing the use and it's
abilities (and they have an amazing pano shot to show off that feature)

http://www.zoerk.com/pages/p_psa.htm

Zoerk sells it new for $499. I am offering mine for $300 in as new
condition, with original instructions. With the money saved, you can quite
literally buy a Multi Coated Zeiss Jena lens to mount it on your Contax.

If interested, contact me off-list at [email protected]


Thanks,

Pat



From: "Peter Williams" [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.large-format
Subject: Re: Architectural photography
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 

> >I must freely admit that I'm getting into architectural work using medium
> >format (Bronica ETR),
>
> >... and I've gotten used to rise/fall and shift ...
>
> How could you have gotten used to rise/fall and shift? Bronica long
> ago stopped manufacturing the "ETR rise/fall/shift Hammer".

That "Hammer" is actually the Schneider 55mm f4.5 PCS Super Angulon for
Bronica ETR, produced in 1981. It offers reasonable rise, fall, and shift
(approx 12mm in each direction). Not quite full movements, but enough to
work with in most situations. KEH was kind enough to ship one to me last
week. And it prefers to be called "The Beast of Bronica", not "Hammer".

Previous rise/fall/shift experience was gained on my Bush Pressman 4x5.

> Until you actually wrench your back hauling a flexible camera onto
> location, you'll never truly understand the karmic relationship
> between architecture, photography and pain.

My current rig is about 16 lbs - 50% tripod, 50% lens, and 30% camera body
with back. Soon to be adding 10% filters (The Beast of Bronica insists on
only the highest quality B+W or Heliopan Bay 104 filters).

Belive me, I'm gettin' the karma (and so is my wallet).

> Till then, you'll be just another "shelter magazine priss" shooting
> vignettes of furniture and calling it architectural (cf "Architectural
> Design Furniture Vignette Magazine").

Naw... I'm not getting into that magazine crap. Just interior portfolio
shots for clients (custom builders and local architects), with an emphasis
on doing some fancy web design work along with the images. I would shoot
4x5, but by the time I shoot and scan 30-50 images, the processing and
scanning charges kill me. 645 is a good compromise of high quality (my
clients don't want more than 11x14 prints) and cost (I have a lab that will
do a basic scan for 65 cents per shot on 120/220 - not high res, but more
than enough for the web work, compared to $10-15 per basic scan on 4x5).

> Ahhhhhhh! Finally got THAT off my chest (and what a chest it is!)
>
> "WWHALFC - DMWU"
>
> (Women Who Haul Around Large Format Cameras - Don't Mess With Us)

"CEJ: MFTWWHALFC"

(Certified Equipment Junkies: More Frightening Than Women Who Haul Around
Large Format Cameras)

Best regards,

Peter B. Williams, Photographer and CEJ
Author, "Medium Format Cameras: A Buyer's Guide to Using and Shooting",
Amherst Media, January 2001



From minolta mailing list:
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 
From: "twm47099" [email protected]
Subject: Re: 35mm + answer: schneider-kreuznach

The S-K lens is only a shift lens. There are various matched mount
adapters including Minolta Maxxum. The s-k website is:
http://www.schneideroptics.com/photography/pc-super-angulon/

B&H carries the lens & adapter at:

PC Super Angulon Mount for Minolta Maxxum
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?
O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=46437&is=REG

Wide Angle 28mm f/2.8 PC Super-Angulon Manual Focus Lens
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?
O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=46340&is=USA

Horseman makes a more interesting View Camera Converter (VCC) which
comes in a Maxxum mount:

http://www.horsemanusa.com/pd_frame032.html

It has the movements of a viewcamera. I have seen it on B&H for
about $2000 + adapter + lens (MF or LF at about $800 each). It may
ber possible to use enlarger lenses, but don't know for sure.

Both of these alternatives will only use manual focusing, but so do
the Canon tiltshift lenses. I'm not sure if they have auto diaphragm
or not.

Tom


From manual minolta mailing list:
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 
From: Andrew [email protected]
Subject: Re: 35mm + answer: schneider-kreuznach

What do you mean it doesn't exist ?

http://www.schneideroptics.com/photography/pc-super-angulon/
They also have something interesting here:
http://www.schneideroptics.com/cameras/horseman/view_camera_converters/for_35mm_slr/

I remember there used to be more info on their site so I guess you
should write them for brochure.
VCC may be bought with Maxxum adapter.



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