Upfront Cautions
Conventional Lens Cleaning Wisdom
Postings related to Lens Cleaning

Related Links:
Cleaning Lenses with Defects (Copyright 1998 A. Calcui)
Kodak on Lens Cleaning
Dust Mites Cleaning out of Cameras (W.J. Markerink)

Cleaning Cameras
Cleaning Collectible Cameras
How To Clean Your Camera's Lenses
Cleaning Lenses by Harry Fleenor [12/2000]
Opticlean (and posting) [8/2002]

Cautions:

My first caution to you is to follow Hippocrates' Rule - first, do no harm!

My second caution is that you proceed at your own risk. I haven't and can't test any of these ideas extensively, so they are just presented for your information. The posters may or may not be better informed than you or me. But the diversity of opinions and ideas is interesting in its own right, and worth presenting.

My third caution is that less is more in lens cleaning. Most of the damage in the form of scratches to lenses has come to be known as ''cleaning marks'' due to their source. The less cleaning and the less vigorous cleaning you do, the better your lenses are likely to remain.

Conventional Wisdom

Conventional lens cleaning philosophy is very simple.

First, get the dust off the lens. Dust can cause scratches. Usually a blower brush is recommended, sometimes with use of the clean brush part if needed. Keep this brush for lenses only. Keep it clean and in a dust-free environment. Canned air is not recommended by some sources, as it can condense out chemicals and freeze lenses and is usually too vigorous a blast when new can of air is used.

Second, lubricate the glass indirectly with very little fluid. Usually, this means lightly moistening a piece of lens cleaning tissue and putting on lens. Some sources recommend the moisture from your breath, but most suggest using commercial lens cleaning fluid. Don't put the fluid directly on the lens, as too much will soak into lens and may cause damage (loosened elements). Use a spiral motion outward (some sources recommend counter-clockwise). Do not rub moist paper back and forth or hard on lens.

Third, use a new and clean lens cleaning tissue to remove the moisture and clean the lens. Again, a spiral cleaning motion is recommended. One technique is to tear the lens cleaning paper in half, producing a jagged edge paper segment that can be folded (for strength). Clean with these paper pieces, discarding when done. Don't save on paper, as you may end up scratching multiple lenses with the dust from one lens.

Microfiber cloth can be used as directed by manufacturer. Usually, this means removing the dust first, then cleaning away smudges with the cloth. Some sources again recommend a spiraling outward motion from the lens center. Others say just wipe and lift off fingerprints and smudges.

Please understand that you must keep your microfiber cloth very clean and dust free! The cloth will pick up dust if you don't, and you will end up scratching all the glass that you touch.

A very good idea is to put all these lens cleaning items into a zip lock or similar bag, mainly to protect them against dust contamination. Another good idea is to periodically vacuum out the contents of your camera bag, to remove dust before it can really buildup.

Consider using a protective (UV) filter in adverse environments. In really dusty, muddy, or sandy environments, consider using an ewa marine plastic bag to keep dust and mud out of your camera and lenses.

WARNING:

If you start disassembling lenses, you should be aware and able to handle all the issues required for proper re-assembly. Not only do you have to get them all back in the right order, but you have to ensure exact (and we mean really exact) registration and positioning. If you don't have access and knowledge to use an optical bench to recenter and optically align your lenses, you have no business doing lens disassemblies. Tolerances are measured in ten-thousandths of an inch, so take the hint!

HEALTH HAZARDS:

Some recent books on health hazards in photography emphasize that many old style cleaners such as benzene and acetone 
can have significant health risks. Be sure to be aware of these risks and take precautions if you elect to use these chemicals. 
At the least, be sure to use a very well ventilated repair site. And be especially aware of the risk of fires with some volatile
chemicals such as ether or lighter fluid or other often recommended home cleaning chemicals. Most cleaning chemicals will
have precautions listed on the container, which should be carefully followed.  In general, it is a good rule to avoid skin contact and to use only in a very well ventilated environment where airflow minimized the risk of breathing fumes. 

Postings

Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 
From: Bob Shell <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [camera-fix] of addresses and lens cleaning

Lens makers recommend acetone to remove staining and most other crud from
lenses. Zeiss actually makes a cleaner and sells it. It is specifically
formulated to remove haze and fungus. I have no idea what's in it.

Bob

Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 
From: Rick Oleson <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: [camera-fix] Re: of addresses and lens cleaning

I would be pretty careful in using acetone around an assembled lens,
as so many of them over the past 20 years or so have been using
polycarbonate in the barrels. Acetone will dissolve polycarbonate
very quickly. It ought to be okay with the glass elements themselves
if the lens is disassembled.

rick :)= 

Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 
From: Bob Shell <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [camera-fix] Re: of addresses and lens cleaning

Good point. I was speaking of cleaning lenses which were removed from the
lens barrels.

Bob 

[Ed. note: A useful test tip from a noted camera repairperson]

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998
From: Richard Knoppow [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Rollei] Cleaning Tessars

The way to tell if the lens has gotten hazy is to open the shutter and shine a flashlight through the lens. Any haze or other crud in the lens will become immediately apparent. Also check the finder lens. Haze there will reduce the contrast of the finder image and make it harder to focus. Cleaning the finder lens requires actually more disassembly than the taking lens and will also require re-setting the correlation between finder and taking lens. The is perhaps better left to a repair type person.

----
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles,Ca.
[email protected]

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998
From: Todd Belcher [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Rollei] Cleaning Tessars

I use a dry lens cleaning product called the "Lens Pen" from Optex (www.gentec-intl.com). It does a fine job of cleaning a lens, as long as you clear the lens of any particulate matter with compressed air (to avoid scratches). I prefer this dry cleaning method to a wet one, as it's much less finiky. Although a bit of moist breath on the lens aids in removing very "cruddy" lenses.

Todd Belcher
Vancouver, B.C. Canada
[email protected]

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998
From: Bob Shell [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Rollei] Re: German Glass

For those times when something more than just a wipe with a microfiber cloth is needed, there are lens cleaning fluids. I have found two really good ones, and a lot of rotten ones. The cheap ones are usually just isopropyl alcohol with maybe a little detergent added. The good ones are sold by Singh-Ray and Deutsche Optik. Both of these are used by the military and by NASA for cleaning optics.

Bob

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998
From: Bob Shell [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Rollei] Wardrobe and Lens Cleaning

While we're on the topic of cleaning optics, it might interest you to know how it is done at the lens makers. I've toured many of the major optical companies in Germany and Japan, and of course things are made these days in clean room environments. But occasionally someone slips up and gets an element dirty. Or if lenses come in for repair they usually need cleaning.

First, any surface dust is blown off with compressed air from a filtered supply. Then the surface is cleaned with an oil-free chamois leather.

These are damned hard to find in the USA, but last I heard Pop Photo was still selling them. You could check a recent issue. I don't get to see it any more because I refuse to pay for it, and Bert stopped putting me on the comp list!

Bob

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998
From: Doug Braun [email protected]
Subject: [Rollei] More babble on coatings and cleaning

My humble observations:

I think coated lenses are more likely to remain in cood condition because any damage done by cleaning is very conspicuous, even if its effect on the image quality is minimal. But uncoated lenses can basically be ruined by cleaning and still look "shiny". It's only when you carefully shine light through them and look through them that you can seen the zillions of tiny cleaning scratches.

I was looking at an older 2.8 in a shop last weekend, and I noticed that the taking lens had too many cleaning marks to make it really worth using (especially for the asking price...), but the viewing lens was basically fine. Obviously the previous owners were very concerned that that they get the most out of their fine taking lens by always keeping it clean, and ended up ruining it in the process. Because they paid less attention to the taking lens, it survived...

Doug Braun

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998
From: Richard Knoppow [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Rollei] More babble on coatings and cleaning

Taking a pencil flashlight along when buying lenses or cameras is a good idea. when shined through a lens it will show up any scratches or haziness right away.

----
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles,Ca.
[email protected]

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998
From: Richard Knoppow [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Rollei] Wardrobe and Lens Cleaning

Typical optical shop cleaners are pure Acetone as a degreaser and mild solutions of Ammonium Carbonate for general cleaning. Kodak lens cleaning fluid is a solution of Ammonium Carbonate with some Triton-X wetting agent.

The MIL spec cleaner is a mixture of mostly Ethyl and Methyl alcohol with wetting agents or detergents.

Windex is mainly Ammonium Hydroxide. Presumably the Kodak cleaner is gentler but Windex seems to work well and I have never heard any reports of damage from it. A friend who worked for Bausch & Lomb some years ago told me its what they used for general cleaning of binocular parts. Plain Isopropyl alcohol of the 91% type available from the drug store is also a pretty good selective degreaser and won't attack paint. Don't use rubbing alcohol, its 1/3 water.

Loose dust can be blown off but I suggest using a hand air bulb rather than canned air. The canned air can cause condensation on the lens but cooling it rapidly. Dust that won't come off by blowing can be removed by using Kodak lens tissue as a brush. Roll the tissue into a tube and tear it in half, with the feathery torn ends together. Use is as a one-time brush. Use several for very dirty lenses. A regular lens brush can hold grit and cause scratching.

The main thing is to use something which will neither scratch or etch the lens and won't leave a residue.

----
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles,Ca.
[email protected]

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re[2]: [Rollei] Wardrobe and Lens Cleaning

Better yet, Tokina and other Japanese use pure 100% methyl alcohol. Best bet if grain alcohol since it leaves no residue, but if you don;t want to go out and buy Everclear, the next best is Methanol. $3 a quart in your hardware store. It works perfectly but will leave a little residue, although not as much as Isopropyl, which is cut 9% with water and other ingredients added so people won't drink it (yes for real).

Peter K

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998
From: Bob Shell [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Rollei] Wardrobe and Lens Cleaning

I didn't mention "canned air". I tell people

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998
From: Dan Post [email protected]
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Rollei] Wardrobe and Lens Cleaning

You can get 100% pure Isopropyl Alcohol through TechAmerica ( Radio Shack) I had read where swabs with acetone were used by optical makers and astronomers; I thought is might harm the cement that holds lens elements together. I took a doublet from an old camera and soaked it in a film can of acetone for about two weeks- no effect whatsoever. The caveat here is that the lens was from a camera of recent vintage. Older lenses probably used something like a balsam that would be affected. I have used the acetone on mirrors, though, with good results.

I also got a large piece of microfibre fabric from a pricey dress shop- only color available was green, and it's 12 buck a yard! I use pieces of that with a dab of Edmund Scientific Lens cleaner on one corner, then gently wipe dry with the center. I keep all cleaning cloths, in a ziplock bags so they don't pick up dirt from the bag or pocket! Keeping the cleaning cloth CLEAN is more than half the battle!

[email protected]

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998
From: Richard Knoppow [email protected]
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Rollei] Wardrobe and Lens Cleaning

Acetone will definitely dissolve Canada Balsam. If you must use it on a lens be very careful not to let run into the housing. It can be a valuable last resort when something oily has gotten on a lens and won't come off.

It will also dissolve some types of paint and lacquer used to finish lenses.

Modern lenses are cemented with synthetic adhesives which are not dissolved by Acetone. A better general purpose degreaser is 1,1,1,Trichrloroethylene but it is considered an envronmental hazard now and is hard to find and expensive.

The main thing is to use something that does not leave a residue. That can also come off of paper or cloth used to do the cleaning.

----
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles,Ca.
[email protected]

It isn't always Economical to Get a Lens Cleaned...

From: [email protected] (Bozhidar Dimitrov)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Relief for dirty lens
Date: 4 Feb 1998

Gord Weber ([email protected]) wrote:

I have a 25 year old SMC Takumar lens (55/1.8) that has signs of grime on the inside element surfaces. It is barely noticable unless you hold the lens

I use a local camera repair shop to get my Pentax SPF tuned up every once in a while. Is it wise to have a repair shop take the lens apart and clean it?

Opening it up and cleaning should be no big deal, but I wonder if it will be worth it. I had an SMC-A 24/2.8 cleaned from dust and fungus, and it cost about $70. The lens is still sharp as a tack.

Good luck, Boz

Not Recommended, but for your information:

From: "Frank Filippone" [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.large-format
Subject: Re: Perceived lens problem
Date: 3 Feb 1998

Have you tried to remove the front and rear elements and cleaned them? Unscrew element groups from shutter using moderate twisting action.... should some apart easily. Be careful and do not drop them..... you can figure on throwing them away if they get dinged.

Clean using proper lens cleaning brush, gently carressing surface; Did Dust move? Clean thoroughly but be very gentle.

If necessary, put lens cleaning solution on good quality lens paper ( I use Kodak ) and LIGHTLY wipe surface with a circular action: Repeat with fresh paper and solution.

DO NOT put solution directly on lens,,,,, DO NOT skip dusting with a clean lens brush, and do not substitute your tie, some nice soft diaper, etc for the brush or the paper.

Report your progress..... will help further...
--
Please do not auto-respond. Please respond to address below.

Frank Filippone
[email protected]

Darrell Messenger [email protected] wrote

Yesterday I bought a f8/90mm Super-Angulon at a camera show for $400. The lens is physically near mint but what I thought was dust on the lens when I looked at it at the camera show now appears to be dust inside the lens. It is only in the front part of the lens but looks like dust on at least one layer inside the lens and maybe two. Has anybody had experience with this? I doubt this will be seen on the images but I wonder if it might make part of the image appear soft. I am fairly new to MF and would appreciate any help or ideas that any of you readers might provide.

Thanx
Darrell

Better Advise IMHO

From: [email protected] (John Hicks)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.large-format
Subject: Re: Perceived lens problem
Date: 3 Feb 1998

Darrell Messenger [email protected] wrote:

Yesterday I bought a f8/90mm Super-Angulon

Don't worry about it; the dust won't cause any problems unless there's really lots of it.

jbh

From: "Joe Cantrell" [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.misc
Subject: Re: WIDE ANGLE LENS WITH SPOTS ALL OVER
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998

Rodney Tow wrote

Today, while cleaning my 35 mm Nikon lens, series e, I noticed that I see thousands of little spots in the lens when I open the aperture all the way and look from the back of the lens through to the front. The spots do not show up looking the other way and I do not see them through my viewfinder. I cleaned the lens and this must be in the lens and not on the outer surface. What is it and what can I do? Please e-mail your responses.

Might well be only dust on the interior lens surfaces. Before I changed to Canon, my Nikkors (which led extremely rugged lives in Southeast Asian photojournalism) would get dusty on the elements either side of the diaphragm. They cleaned up, no sweat, and I usually did it myself. I had fewer problems with fungus in the Japanese lenses than I did in my Leitz equipment, by the way.

Joe Cantrell

What not to do!

From: [email protected] (Harry F. Lockwood)
Subject: Re: lens coatings
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998

[email protected] wrote:

Don't even think about it - the lens will be toast, if it isn't already. However, this long-term reliability issue may be of interest to Tamron. Perhaps you could suggest to them that they 'buy' you lens back for their labs to look over ?

Charles Mak wrote:

I have a Tamron lens that the middle lens coating is damage. ( It seems like that it is de-nature and the glass is not clear any more). I wish to wash the coating off in order to "save" the lens.I have took the glass out already. Before I try thinner, sulfuric acid... etc, any recommendation for removing the lens coating.

Charles

The above is good advice. The lens is coated with a hard dielectric oxide/nitride that can only be dissolved in an acid such as hydrofluoric (HF); sulfuric probably won't touch it. But HF will also dissolve the lens. That could introduce some distortion.

HFL

--
Harry F. Lockwood
[email protected]
http://world.std.com/~lockwood

Subject: My Bronica SLR
From: "Steven S. Gee" [email protected]
Date: 1998/01/05
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm

I own a Bronica EC-TL camera and I haven't used it for a long long time. Being the neat freak I decided to clean my camera (big mistake) it wasn't really dirty at all but I proceeded to clean the insides of it. (Its a 120 camera) I used canned air to blow the mirror clean but accidentally inverted the can and all that liquid stuff came shooting out onto the mirror! It was cold and white, it dried after a few seconds but left a stain mark (like water) on the mirror. I was left with no other choice but to clean the mirror with tissue paper and lens cleaner. I got everything off except near the edge there is kind of a blue haze/tinge on the edge of the mirror, I know for sure that it is the cleaners residue and I could remove it with a dry piece of tissue paper. However, I don't want to scratch that darn mirror (I did put 2 tiny ones into it) Will that haze affect the pictures? I don't see it in the viewfinder, and the pictures still come out clear. Do mirrors have microscratches from factory? Will the scratches I put into it affect the pictures or the value of the camera? Is there replacements mirrors? Do you have suggestions on mirror cleaning/care? (I know I should avoid cleaning as much as possible. What is the camera worth these days. I have a 80mm f/2.8 lens, a 150mm f/3.5 lens, a 120 12 exp back and a viewfinder that makes it into a front viewfinder camera. It is in brand new/from factory condition.

P.S. Sorry for the long e-mail but I'm freaking out because of this incident. Thanks a million for any suggestions.

Thanks

Steven

From: [email protected] (Ed Eagleton)
[1] Re: Where is the best place to get cleaning supplies
Date: Fri Feb 13 19:24:49 CST 1998

I need to find a mail or internet catalog for lense cleaning supplies, can anybody help?

As a guy that cleans over a dozen lens surfaces a day I've gotta ask, Why do you need a whole catalog? A quart of Kodak lens cleaner is available thru your photo dealer as well as Kimwipes or lens tissue. A quart will last me many many months. I use cotton swabs, micro fiber cloths, small sections of chamois and Kodak lens cleaner primarily. A fifty fifty mix of water and Windex for an oily lens or filter element. An ear syringe available at most pharmacies does a nice job of blowing off debris before swabbing and tissue lint afterwards.

Ed Eagleton
[email protected]

From: [email protected] (Ed Eagleton)
[1] Re: Help in camera cleaning
Date: Fri Feb 13 19:38:29 CST 1998

I am a novice and have just purchased a second hand nikon f70 camera... the problem is that my lens (35 - 80 mm) is clean but everytime i look through the viewfinder there are spots on the crners and even what looks like dust particles.... i know it is inside the camera and not the lens because even when i remove the lens, and look through the viewfinder the dirt is still there.... can anyone help me in what to do.

First off ''DON"T PANIC !'' the small spots are pobably on the focus screen, the plastic screen sitting above the mirror. The n70 should have interchangeable screens held in place by a small latch in the forward middle top section just behind the lens mount.

If there are only a couple of minor specks ignore them and continue shooting.

If they really aggrevate you , lay the camera on its back, pull the tab , the screen and frame should drop down.

DO NOT touch the screen with bare fingers. This will leave oil on the screen and will possibly (probably) stain it. Use a blower brush or something similar and gently blow off the surface (both sides) and the inside of the prism area. The plastic is extremely soft and is easily scratched by improper cleaning so I hesitate to tell you to wipe on it at all but it is sometime neccesary to remove stubborn specks of dust and must be done with extreme care. BTW these specks are all but invisible when you are looking at the screen outside of the body.

Ed Eagleton
[email protected]

From: Rick Campbell [email protected]
Subject: Response to How do I clean the lens of the Yashica 124G
Date: 1998-02-13

I once replaced the scratched rear elements on my 124G. Ordered a whole lens set from Yashica. I made a spanner wrench from a paint knife with a file, filing out the center and leaving two little tabs on each end, to fit the notches in the lens. Then unscrewed the rear element and screwed in the new one. Total time, including making the tool was about a half an hour. Didn't seem to be any alignment possible, it just screws in. Maybe you're supposed to use custom shims or something but the original lens didn't have any and the picture quality was never hurt as far as I could tell. Taking out the front element is another story. Didn't try that.

Procede at your own risk! It really might be better to send it in but some people like to tinker. If the dirty part is on the front element you'll have to put the shutter on B to get to the glass. You might have fungus. Try (with the back open and shutter open) putting the camera out pointing to the sun for a few minutes. Sometimes this will unfog the fungus. Don't fry the lens or start back open and shutter open) putting the camera out pointing to the sun for a few minutes. Sometimes this will unfog the fungus. Don't fry the lens or start a fire ;-)

Good luck.

[Nikon Digest Feb. 16 1998 post:]
From: Tracey Goessel Doyle [email protected]
Subject: Re: Lens Pen

Great gadget: I just replaced mine after roughly five years of light use. It's worked well for getting dust and an occasional fingerprint off my lenses. It replaces a separate brush and microfiber cloth (or lens cleaning solution and paper.) I find it easier to use than microfiber for removing fingerprints and less likely to leave a little ring of crud around the edge of the glass.

Jim Doyle

rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
From: nebraskaphantom [email protected]
[1] Re: Qs on cleaning multi-coating lens
Date: Sun Mar 01 08:00:39 CST 1998

NEWS FLASH

I just discovered a great product. Upon receiving my new Zeiss multi-coated eyeglasses I was tempted with an offer to use their cleaning solution which is formulated for multi-coated optics. They guarantee their multi-coating for the life of the prescription--so I thought they would not sell anything that would jeopardize their coating. This stuff is great! It comes in a small three inch high, pump-spray bottle for about $1.75. With one squeeze you get one pre-measured amount for each lens surface. It leaves no film, and will clean grease,dirt,fingerprints, and the occasional dog lick. Buy the way, the Zeiss "Tital" eyeglass lenses are fantastic. With the AR coating they are color balanced so what you see is what you get.

Good luck.

From: [email protected] (Richard Knoppow)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.large-format
Subject: Re: Cleaning lenses
Date: Thu, 05 Mar 1998

Yup, works fine. You might want to add a hand operated air bulb. The Kodak lens tissue an be used to make a disposable brush. Roll it into a tube, tear and fold over. Use the feathered end as a one-time brush. That way you don't have a brush with grit stored up in it just waiting to scratch something.

Kodak lens cleaner is buffered so that it won't attack glass which is sensitive or acids or strong alkalines.

---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, Ca.
[email protected]

Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 21:46:57 -0500
From: Tom Campbell 
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Cleaning Front Element

ghost who walks inside wrote:
>
> I recently bought a used lens, and no matter how much I breathe on it and
> use a lens tissue, or as a last ditch, kodak lens cleaner, there is an
> oily kind of smeary stuff on the front element.
>
> Has anyone used that ROR Residual Oil Remover solution?
>
> Does it work well?
>
> I've also seen something called "crystal clear" that apparently evaporates
> immediatley and so the marketing goes, doesn't leave any residual gunk.
>
> More specifically how safe are they for T*? 
>
> Thanks.
>
> -jon  

Jon

I don't know about any of these products. However, I was talking about a year ago with my optician (also a photographer and a heck of a nice guy for giving me discounts) and he won't use anything on coated lenses but Eckerd's house-brand glass cleaner diluted 1:3 with water. He says the Kodak stuff, which I had used for years, eats any anti-reflective coating. I've started following his advice, though I had never seen any visible or photographic evidence of a problem with the Kodak product.

I can't remember the name of the stuff, and my only supply is already diluted in a spray bottle (mostly for daily glasses use). If you can't find it, or if you live out of Eckerd's market area, drop a line and I'll call the guy and ask the name, or find if their are other "house brands" that have the same stuff.

Or, look at the bright side and see all the money you've saved on Softars. Sorry, that was cruel.

Tom Campbell

Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 08:45:02 CENTRAL
From: Waldo Berry [email protected]
Subject: Re: Cleaning Front Element

I use a three level approach to cleaning.

1. Before use I have a pen that has a very soft brush on one end a half moon felt lined cup on it. For the light dust I use the brush for the more stubborn dust and particles I use the cup.

2. If there is a smug on the lens I use my pentax lens cloth and a mist spray. Carful to hit the glass and not the lens housing. Then a circular motion moving from inside the lens to the outside. The a few quick swipes with the brush incase there is any fiber left from the cloth.

3. Sticky stuff, or really stubborn: A 3:1 dilution of citrus cleaner, water and glass cleaner (non ammonia based).

If you get the lens wet for any reason make sure you dry it well then let it sit out for a bit to make sure it is dry. Don't just stick it all back in the back or case. A couple of cotton cloths or tea shirts are placed over the lenses while the are allowed to air without the caps on.

That's my ten cents

===================================================
Waldo O. Berry, III
[email protected]
http://www.dce.ksu.edu/

Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998
From: Peter Klosky [email protected]
Subject: Cleaning Front Element -Reply

Ok, what's your favorite way to clean the front (&rear) element of your beloved lenses?

I used to use Kodak lens paper that costs about a dollar at the camera store, but now I use a cleaning cloth that is available from the camera store for about five to ten dollars. The new cleaning cloth uses microfiber technology, I think, and they are quite soft and clean quickly. Many dealers tend to carry them in their pocket when selling cameras. In a pinch, I use a piece of soft cotton cloth, such as a 100% cotton T-shirt.

As suggested in the Wildi book and seen by others, I breathe lightly on the element to get a little condensation to form, to ease cleaning. As Wildi also suggests, I use lens cleaning fluid of one type or another from the camera store for the most intense cleaning. The breating lightly technique bothers me a bit, as I suspect some corrosive saliva is delivered, but I use it just the same.

Obviously, the best way to keep a lens clean is to prevent it from getting dirty.

Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998
From: John Gong [email protected]
Subject: Re: Cleaning Front Element

I use the breathing on/T shirt method without any problems. One comment I can add, however, comes from (I think) a Leica lens instruction recommendation: Don't use the lens cleaning fluid given by optomotrists for cleaning glasses. The fluid is not compatible with lens coatings and will adversely affect its longevity.

John

From: [email protected] (Rudy Garcia)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.misc
Subject: Re: cleaning photographic lens
Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998

joao gusmao [email protected] wrote:

> Could someone help me: can I use compressed air to clean
> photographic lens? I was advised to use Falcon's Dust-Off
> Compressed-Gas Duster.
> Thanks in advance, joao

Joao,

Here is my personal preference for cleaning lenses.

Step 2.
Follow up with a lens cleaning brush (I'm partial to the "lipstick" type of brush). Never touch the hairs on brush, as you'll transfer your body grease to the hairs and from there to the glass. Use the brush to dislodge any particles that weren't blown away by step 1.

1 & 2 above are usually sufficient for most cleaning if you are careful handling your equipment and keep you fingers off the optics, but if you have to, then continue on to step 3.

Step 3.
Use lens cleaning tissue with a drop of lens cleaning fluid on tissue (I use Kodak, or ROR if necessary). Wipe glass surface gently. If a residue film resembling an "oil slick" (ie. multicolored rainbow like film) remains after the glass is dry, then switch to ROR (Residual Oil Remover) and repeat this step.

Thats it!

Microfiber cloth is great stuff, but I hardly ever use it. I rather use a pristine tissue of lens cleaning paper rather than risking using a microfiber cloth that is potentially harboring a small particle of grit (like a sand grain) left over from previous use. One swipe with it and whoila! instant "lens cleaning mark". Some of my lenses are more than 15 years old and the glass is like the day Nikkon manufactured it.

Hope this helped.

--
Use address below for Email replies. Address on Header is bogus to defeat AutoSPAM.

[email protected]
________________________________
Rudy Garcia

The answers I have found have just served to raise a whole new set of questions. In some ways I am as confused as ever, but I believe I am confused on a much higher level and about more important things.

Author unknown

rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
From: [email protected] (Mr500CM)
[1] Re: Alcohol as lens & camera cleaner???
Date: Tue Jul 07 20:51:12 CDT 1998
I've used what Leica has been using for years......Windex. It's cheap and does the job and it won't hurt the coating on the lenses.

Lance

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From: Garry Lee [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Alcohol as lens & camera cleaner???
Date: 5 Jul 1998

I worked out a way, years ago to clean lenses perfectly. It doesn't damage them and they look like new.

Get cotton wool dip in water to which a little detergent (e.g. shampoo) has been added, the mixture then agitated. Squeeze the cotton wool until damp. Clean lens with circular motions. Then repeat with dry cotton wool. If there's streaking, breathe on lens and then repeat rubbing with dry cotton wool.

This works like magic and I've used it for more than 15 years.

Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Alcohol as lens & camera cleaner???

An experienced camera repairman that I have a lot of respect for recommends a "dilute" solution of sudsy household ammonia. This has worked ver well for me, for several years. Cheap and effective, and doesn't seem to harm the coating. I've also tried Ed Romney's ( I think it was him ) suggested use of windex. Haven't noticed any adverse effects over the past 2 - 3 years.

From: [email protected] (Willem-Jan Markerink)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Alcohol as lens & camera cleaner???
Date: Mon, 06 Jul 98

Buy those 100-pack CD-ROM alcohol cleaning tissues....US$5.

The individually packed/sealed photo-tissues are 10 times more expensive....

Hey, I am Dutch, I am trained to discover things like this....;-))

Additional tip/trick: if you disassemble greasy cameras, and want to remove the dirty grease, or want to remove nasty glue-remains (stickers etc), you can let one of those CD-cleaning packs dry out, and refill it with thinner or whatever strong dissolver....voila, thinner-tissues at hand, without messing with a full bottle of thinner.

Also works with ordinary soap-packs (Wetties)....so don't throw the spoiled (dried out) packs away....they can get a second life!

Just be sure to put a warning label on, so that you don't start with thinner on your lens....or cleaning your kids mouth with it....;-))

--
Bye,

Willem-Jan Markerink

From: "David Foy" nomail@this_address.please
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Alcohol as lens & camera cleaner???
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998

Alcohols are probably not harmful, but they are ineffective compared to, for example, dilute solutions of ammonia (Windex). Another tip, originally from repairman-lore and most recently passed along by Ed Romney on his web page, is a 50/50 mixture of hydrogen peroxide (from the drugstore) and household ammonia. It is a very effective remover of the "haze" so often mistaken for fungus, and Ed says it also removes fungus.

rec.photo.equipment.35mm
From: [email protected] (JPMccormac)
[1] Re: Best lens cleaner
Date: Fri Jun 26 16:07:57 CDT 1998

Could anyone tell me which lens cleaner is the best on the market.

Lenspen; it really works. see www.lenspen.com
John P. McCormack
http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/Vines/9273/gr1.html

Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998
From: Januar Rahadi [email protected]
Subject: Re: Favourite method of cleaning your precious Nikon lenses?

My preferred method of cleaning my precious Nikon lenses is to not have to clean it. I use my best effort to prevent dirt/dust/fungus from reaching the lenses, through the usage of UV filters and silica gel packs. But when the dirt/dust/fungus unfortunately reached my lens, this is what I do:

Preparation:

1. blower or a can of compressed air.

2. 95% alcohol or lens cleaning fluid (do not use thinner or other strong cleaning fluid, it might solvent the lens coatings).

3. cotton buds.

4. lens tissue (do not use facial tissue).

Clean-up Method:

1. I prefer non-contact cleaning, if possible, using the blower. If you use compressed air can, do not turn the can upside-down as this may cause sprayed water. If the dust/dirt can be blown using the blower, then stop the clean-up operation.

2. Drop the 95% alcohol to the tip of the cotton buds, and cautiously wiped the lens using the cotton buds. You can exchange the cotton buds with the lens tissue if you prefer, but I use cotton buds because it allows me to wipe only a very small area-in-dirt of the lens. Never drop the alcohol directly to the lens, as this may cause the alcohol to slip into the internal of the lens.

3. Cautiously wipe the lens using the lens tissue in the circular movement until the lens is fully cleaned-up.

4. Reinstall your UV filter to protect your lens from future dirt/dust/scratches.

5. Always install the front-cap and the back-cap when you store the lens.

Fungus Prevention:

1. Store your lens inside a tightened plastic bag (to prevent excessive humidity from reaching your lens - humidity is to invitation to fungus), together with some silica gel packs inside the plastic bag (to absorb humidity that already exist inside the plastic bag).

2. Leave plenty of silica gel packs inside your camera bag.

3. Change all of your old silica gel packs with new ones regularly (I renew all the silica gel packs every three month).

4. Do not expose your lens to excessive humidity situation, such as rain or bad weather (Unfortunately, rain/bad weather often provide great photo opportunities - you have to choose it yourself :) ).

Just remember, fungus is the most fatal class of lens dirt. It seriously degrades the shapness, contrast and speed of the lens. It can reach inside the lens, and worst of all, it can "eat" the lens coat! The only way to clean fungus is to have the lens disassembled by a qualified technician in a qualified service shop. Even a qualified technician is sure to have trouble in re-assembling the lens, because lens alignment tolerance is very tight, and cannot be done without proper (and expensive!) lens alignment devices that might not be available in your local service shop.

Simply stated: It is much better to prevent than to repair.

Warmest Regards,

Januar Rahadi

Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998
From: [email protected]
Subject: re:cleaning Nikon lenses

In reply to the suggestion to use a blower or alcohol, remember that Nikon does not recommend this for ED glass as the glass is easily damaged by extreme temperature change (stream of air)and solvents.

Stewart.

From: Scott Sansom [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Cleaning a lens
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998

Don't sweat it. Get some Kodak lens cleaner (or try plain old Windex as some well respected camera technicians will recommend). Blow off any dust or dirt with a can of compressed air (a decent lens tissue won't scratch your lens, but the fine particles of grit that may be on your lens will). By the way, those squeeze bulb type blowers are worthless. Wet the tissue with the lens cleaner (never put the cleaner on the lens). Gently wipe the lens in a circular motion. I sometimes I find that if I have got oil on my lens from my hands that using a dry tissue to "mop up" the excess lens cleaner will work better to remove the oil residue. You may have to go through several tissues to get all of oil residue off. Also I always wash my hands before cleaning my lens, I have found that if I don't oil from my hands can get on the tissue and then get rubbed onto the lens. If you do get any type of oil on your lens you should get if off as soon as is reasonably possible. Oil left on the lens for an extended period of time can react with the coating causing a stain. Even if this happened I seriously doubt that it would significantly affect image quality. Even a scratch will have suprisingly little affect.

You might want to get a UV or Sky filter to protect your lens in the future.

SNKEBYTE wrote:

> A dog hair fell on my new 28-105.  Like an idiot, without even thinking, I
> nudged it off the lens..(A$$HOLE)  I left a little grease dot...i DID NOT
> scratch the lens.  I bought a lens cleaner along with some little  tissue pack
> that came with it....heres the question
>
> How hard is it to get a lens clean?  can it be made clean like new?  I seem to 
> keep streaking it...again..not scratches....just a little streak
>
> I feel really bad...like I have spoiled the integrity of the camera...any help?

From: [email protected] (Richard Knoppow)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.large-format
Subject: Re: Cleaning Older Coated Lens
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998

[email protected] (JCPERE) wrote:

>I have heard alot about the soft coatings on older lens and would like  to find
>out about precautions to take when cleaning them.  My experience has  been with
>newer (70's and later) lens or older uncoated lens.  I normally just use  Kodak
>lens cleaner and tissue,  but have used things like alcohol on very dirty
>uncoated glass. Also I assume that modern coatings are more durable then  early
>ones.  Is this really true and when did the change happen?
>Thanks
>Chuck

Virtually all lenses made since 1946 which are coated have "hard" coatings. The coatings are, in general, softer than glass itself but not always. Soft coatings are found on a few types of pre-WW-2 Kodak lenses on interior surfaces only. These lenses are pretty rare.

For a dirty lens clean as follows:

1, Blow off any loose dust with a hand operated blower. Canned air can be used if you are careful with it.

2, use lens tissue or Kimwipes. Roll the tissue into a tube, tear it in half and fold over so that the torn ends are together. That forms a soft, one use only, brush. Put a drop or two of Kodak Lens Cleaner on the end of this brush, not on the lens, and use it to pick-up any visible stuff on the lens. Use each once only and discard it.

3, Once all visible dirt is off use the tissue in the regular way, with a few drops of lens cleaner on it to finish cleaning the lens.

Never scrub the lens surface with anything.

For lenses which have oil or other material on them which the lens cleaner will not remove try first 91% Isopropyl Alcohol, from the drugstore (not rubbing alcohol, which is 30% water) on a lens tissue as above. If that doesn't do it try reagent grade Acetone. Acetone is a standard cleaner for optical parts in manufacture but must be applied with great care since it will dissolve paint and will also dissolve some types of lens cement. All solvents or cleaners should be applied to lenses indirectly on tissue. It also helps to hold the lens facing downward to keep solvent from running into the mount.

Few lenses will need such extreme cleaning. For routine cleaning just blow off the lens gently and use the lens cleaner with a soft lens tissue as above.

Kimwipes are lint-free paper tissue made for use with fine machinery and optical parts. Its made by Kimberly-Clarke (they make Kleenex) and is available in art supply and larger paper supply stores among other places.

AFIK, the coated interior surfaces of soft-coated lenses can not be cleaned without removing the coating. The Kodak lenses with this coating are "Eastman Ektars" which are the pre-1946 versions of the later Commerical Ektar and the lenses for the Ektra camera and the lenses for the first version of the Medalist camera. There may be other Kodak lenses. I don't have information about other manufactures.

Zeiss also made some pre-war lenses with coatings but I have very little information beyond that.

---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, Ca.
[email protected]

From: Ron Wisner [email protected]
Subject: Re: Cleaning Older Coated Lens
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.large-format
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998

Richard,

Perhaps this is an oversight, but you did not mention "retro-coated" lenses, those which were not originally coated, but coated by a third party after manufacture. Burk and James was the most well known of those doing this, in which, by placing the lenses in the vacuum chamber without the requisite heat to form a good bond, they avoided the necessity of disassembling and de-cementing the lenses. Unfurtunately, these coatings are not resistant at all and are easily damaged. There are many of these around, as they were coated by the thousands. To make matters worse, they are especially susceptible to alkalies such as ammonia, the very ingrediant in most lens cleaning fluids. Just one application of Kodak lens cleaner can ruin a soft coating by making it foggy. In those cases where a soft coating has been irrevocably damaged I will make a pitch-lap using the lens itself as the mold and simply polish the coating off. In these cases, no coating is far better than a bad coating.

RW

From: George Huczek [email protected]
Subject: Response to What's the best cleaning method?
Date: 1998-08-25

A few responses that came in to the question need to be challenged. One recommendation was to use Windex(TM). This is not a good idea. It contains ammonia, and may damage lens coatings.

Another was to use an alcohol-based solvent. My experience with this has not been satisfactory. I tried using isopropyl alcohol (rubbing alcohol) from a pharmacy. It left a thin white film on the glass. I suspect it has something to do with the purity of the solvent I used. Also, alcohols may penetrate around the lens edges, if used too liberally, and affect the lubricants as well as the lens cement.

I tried ROR yesterday for the first time and I am very pleased with it, having used Kodak lens cleaner prior to that. The trouble I find with Kodak lens cleaner is that I have to clean the lens twice: once with the lens cleaner to remove what is on the lens, and a second time with clean lens tissue to remove the thin film left by the lens cleaner itself.

I also recommend using Kimwipes EX-L tissues. You can order them in small boxes of 280 sheets. They are perfect for the darkroom. They are single-ply, extra-low lint wipes, similar to Kodak's lens cleaning tissue, but less expensive.

From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Lens cleaning
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998

I have used a window cleaning spray liquid (the bluish liquid) to clean some of my lens filters. I found that they did a very good cleaning job, giving the filter a polished shine and also prevents dust from sticking on it. Wonder if anyone has ever use this as a cleaning agent for your camera optical equipments. . I like to know if there is any problem if I use this window cleaner on my camera lenses.

From: [email protected] (Shaf5010)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Lens cleaning
Date: 28 Aug 1998

The "bluish" liquid you refer to most certaintly has ammonia in it and could be very harmful to any coatings. The man made a good point - for the relative cost of get the real thing.

From: [email protected] (Neuman-Ruether)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Lens cleaning
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998

Contrary to what others have said, I find window cleaner excellent for lenses (do not apply it directly to the lens, just a bit to the clean tissue or cotton swab...), and it does not harm coatings or camera/lens finishes (it is an excellent cleaner for camera/lens exterior surfaces, also).

David Ruether
[email protected]

From: [email protected] (Neuman-Ruether)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Lens cleaning
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998

>You might also try a small amount of denatured alcohol on a lens cleaning
>tissue.  It dries quickly, cuts through finger grease and leaves no
>residue. Or if you wish, try 40% ethyl alcohol.  What you don't use to
>clean the lenses, you can mix with orange juice and some ice :-)

Yes, this works well, as does lighter fluid (naptha - but not in orange juice! ;-). My "ultimate" grease-chaser, though, if all else fails, is to make a thin paste of 1/2 dish-washing detergent and 1/2 water, smear it around on the glass surface, and remove it with window cleaner. Messy to begin with, but the end result beats everything else I've tried. I keep my own glass clean enough that mere (upward-directed! ;-) breath-fogging, followed by quick wipes with a single Kodak lens-tissue (after washing my hands with dish-detergent...;-) is all that is needed - but used lenses often arrive with (UGH!!!) silicone "cleaner" on them, or other really stubborn grease-messes...

David Ruether
[email protected]

From: [email protected] (Neuman-Ruether)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Lens cleaning
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998

>    Detergent?.....   (stunned disbelief)  Why not just put the whole damned
>camera outfit in the dishwasher and have done with it?  [laugh]

Hmmm, you deleted the part of the post that explained that MY lenses are kept clean, so they require little cleaning - but I buy WAY too many used lenses (see my Nikkor evaluation list, on my web page, under "I babble"...), and many are truly grungy, requiring fairly extreme measures to clean them (removing silicone "lens cleaner" is the worst!!!). The point is, several cleaners do work well, and having used them often, over a period of time, I can report that, at least with Nikkor lenses (and a few others...;-), Windex, alcohol, naptha, and dish-washing detergent not only work, but do not damage the lens (or coating) surface. This, I would think, would be welcome news...;-) BTW, I'm in full agreement with you regarding filters (though I prefer UV to skylight, for color neutrality...).

And, hey, back when cameras were all-mechanical, without those electronic-whiz-bang innards, maybe one COULD just toss them in the dishwasher, then carefully dry them out afterwards.....! ;-)

David Ruether
[email protected]
[email protected]
http://www.fcinet.com/ruether

From Medium Format Digest:
From: Jim Thomas [email protected]
Subject: Response to What's the best cleaning method?
Date: 1998-08-20

I would bet the farm that the magical mystery cleaning fluid was ROR-1 (Residual Oil Remover), great stuff that was recently discussed on the Leica list. Everyone was amazed that so many others knew of this little "secret". You first blow off the dust particles with canned air, then use a little ROR-1 on a microfiber lens cloth such as Luminex or Photo-Clear. Works great...

Jim

From Medium Format Digest:
From: Michael Heal Subject: Response to What's the best cleaning method? Date: 1998-08-21 At the risk of accusations of heresy, I'll tell you how I do it: First blow away all the dust you can. I'd probably use compressed air, but I don't have any. Next, dampen a spot on a clean, lint-free cloth---a linen tea-towl works well---with the (alcohol-based?) cleaner that's safe for cleaning plastic eye-glass lenses. If you care a lot about the lens, wipe only once before using a new spot on your clean cloth. I use only the weight of the cloth against the lens, rather than adding pressure with my finger. Q-tips(tm) work well for very small lenses, such as eye-pieces.

Whatever the details of your technique, I believe that there are two very important points:

1. Put the cleaning fluid on the cloth, not the lens, and don't use too much fluid. You don't want extra fluid to run inside your lens.

2. Dust contains fine sand and other hard, gritty material. Any scratches will be due to rubbing the dust between your cloth and the glass. Wipe as gently as possible and switch to new, clean spot on your cloth very, very frequently. Using a clean spot for each wipe is far more important than what type of cloth you use. Also, use short, gentle, wiping motions that lift the dirt, not smear it around or rub it into the surface of the lens. Most cotton or similar cloths are far softer than the lens coating and far, far softer than the grit contained in dust. Similarly, any fluid that will clean grease without damaging your lens coatings and leaves no residue is fine. For glass, some people swear by Windex(tm), but notthe generic imitations. The plastic eye-glass fluid is safe, inexpensive and readily available, though.

If you have removed the element, for some reason, then an even better way to start is letting room temperature water run gently over the surface of the lens. The water will often rinse off some more dust, further reducing the risk of scratches. I personally don't do this with filters because I can't dry between the glass and metal mounting ring. A water rinse is an excellent starting point for cleaning eye-glasses, should you wear them. This approach is essential for cleaning the extremely delicate surfaces such as the front-silvered mirrors found in reflector-style telescopes or mirror lenses. Use distilled water with such delicate surfaces so any drops will leave no residue and need not be wiped dry.

All that being said, some modern, high-quality coatings are remarkably hard and scratch resistant. This fact has allowed their use in eye-glass lenses, which typically receive frequent and relatively rough cleaning. I met someone who shamelessly cleans their Zeiss eye glasses on anything, any time, anywhere. After a couple of years of this treatment I was very surprised that I could detect no scatches or flare. I'm not advocating this practice and indeed I'm sure there's a lot of variation between the different coatings from different manufacturers, but perhaps hard coatings are a benefit of high-quality, modern optics.

Finally, remember that if there's only a little dust, it may be better to leave well enough alone. Left alone, the dust is not likely to damage your lens and, if there's only a little, may not decrease the image quality significantly. Cleaning always involves risk.

From Medium Format Digest:
From: Jim Thomas Subject: Response to What's the best cleaning method? Date: 1998-08-21 Here's the link to the info site about ROR-1. I am NOT affiliated in any way with the manufacturer, nor do I have any stake in the product at all. Just wanted to pass along the information.

Jim

http://www.ror.net/index.htm

From Medium Format Digest:
From: Kip Babington [email protected]
Subject: Response to What's the best cleaning method?
Date: 1998-08-22

ROR is available from B&H, if you can't find it locally. I'd never heard of the stuff until somebody mentioned it on the Leica list, but then discovered it's a standard shelf item at my local photo dealer. I'd looked at it for years, never knew what it was, and just hadn't bothered to pick it up and read the label.

From: [email protected] (FOR7)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Kodak lens fluid leaves hazy film on lens???
Date: 26 Sep 1998

>I just cleaned my camera lens and skylight filter with Kodak lens cleaning
>fluid and paper. There now appears to be a dull hazy film on the lens and
>filter. This is only apparent when you shine a light at the pieces from a
>side angle. How normal is this and will it diminish picture quality. I tried
>recleaning the pieces and to no avail, cant get rid of the haze. Plain water
>didnt work either. I tried Windex with Ammonia D on the filter and it worked
>perfectly. Is Windex safe for my multicoated camera lenses? If not how  do I
>get rid of the hazy film.
>
>John

You may have used to much lens cleaning fluid. Also get rid of the lens cleaning tissue. An old piece of 100% cotton like from a t-shirt will do a better job at evenly wiping the lens including any residue and is softer. I get that haze/ oil slick look sometimes after cleaning and I just wipe it with the cotton with alittle plain water and it comes right off. It sounds like you either had alot of oily residue to begin with or like I said you used to much fluid.

[email protected]

From: [email protected] (Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Kodak lens fluid leaves hazy film on lens???
Date: 26 Sep 1998

I have had the same thing happen to me, and was sufficiently annoyed to do some tests to see where the haze was coming from - the tissue or the fluid. It appears that most lens cleaning fluids are fine by themselves, but they dissolve trace amounts of oily material present in the lens tissue. This can then deposit as a haze on the lens as the fluid evaporates. I've also seen the same thing happen with microfiber cloth.

My theory is that these traces of oil come either from your hand (right through the paper, if you don't use a glove), or from the machinery used to manufacture the lens cleaning tissue.

I agree about getting rid of the lens tissue, and yes, I have used cotton with some success. However, I prefer to use microfiber cloths that you know to be absolutely clean.

My current ritual is to wash out a bunch of these cloths in a clean pot on the stove top, with one 5 min dunk with strong detergent, a second dunk in weak ivory snow (to get out traces of the strong detergent), and finish with a couple of rinses in hot pure water. Let the cloths air dry (so they don't pick up soap from the dryer), and then store them in ziplok snack bags for later use.

When you clean the lens, be sure to use minimal amounts of the fluid cleaner (ie, just a few drops), and use a clean cotton glove on your hand so that oils from your hand don't transfer to the cloth and thence to the lens.

With respect to what fluid to use, I strart with weak (condensation from my breath), progress to moderate ones (lens cleaning fluids), and only use strong solutions (windex, etc.) if I absolutely must. The danger with the stronger solutions is always that a drop might drool over to the edge of the lens and pick up some real crud from the threads, etc. which will then be virtually impossible to get rid of.

One of the worst situations is salt spray on the front element or (hopefully) filter. The dried salt is highly abrasive, so you must remove it b4 you wipe anything, but it takes large amounts of water to get it off, so you risk the water getting into the threads if you try to clean things up too quickly by using lots of water.

If the salt is on the filter, I must admit that I've taken to just putting it under the faucet and dealing with the goop from the threads later. If the salt is on the front element, patient, slow work is about all you can do.

A light haze (visible only in strong side lighting, say from a flashlight) can clearly be seen in photos, but usually its effects are only visible in extreme backlit shots, or sunny sidelit shots if you don't use a lens hood. A particularly annoying situation where you don't normally think about the possibility of flair is an interior head shot from across the room using a tele and flash, but with a bright window just out of the frame in back of the subject to act as a hair light. When the subjects begin to get a slightly washed out appearance, I take a peek at my front elements b4 I recommend Iron supplements or reach for the saturation control in Photoshop. This haze is especially annoying when you are using high quality prime lens precisely for the purpose of avoiding flair so you can take shots like this.

Finally, heed all the more usual lens cleaning lore including:

1) B4 starting, blow off the lens to get rid of particulates that could make microscratches as you wipe;

2) use the fluid sparsely so you don't dissolve anything under the lens retaining rings or threads.

Regards,
Tom
Washington, D.C.
mem-tjm at att.net

(Note: Please use the above address, replacing "at" with "@" and take out all the spaces. Don't just hit your reply button, or your message will be automatically forwarded to the spam abuse center at my ISP, att.net ).

Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998
From: Richard Knoppow [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Rollei] Coating lens

>Have you had any experience with ROR lens cleaner?  I see these people at
>all the trade shows with their claims of 20% improvement in transmission by
>simply cleaning off residual oil from lens surfaces.  It's a good cleaner,
>but I think the 20% is a great exaggeration.
>
>Bob

I've never used the stuff and can't find an MSDS for it. It may very well be good stuff but I agree that 20% sounds a bit exagerated. The most often used cleaners for lens assembly are reagent grade Acetone or a mild solution of Ammonium Carbonate like Kodak Lens Cleaner. Windex contains Ammonium Hydroxide which is a bit too alkaline to used very often. Alkalies tend to dissolve some types of optical glass. One use of Windex isn't going to melt your lenses however. An old friend, who worked for Bausch & Lomb in their binocular plant told me they used Windex for cleaning during assembly! I have no idea if this is true.

Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles,Ca.
[email protected]

Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998
From: Richard Knoppow [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Rollei] Coating lens

...
Isopropyl is often mentioned as an alternative to Acetone. Do NOT use rubbing alcohol due to the water content. Acetone is a superior degreaser. Trichloroethelyne is also very effective but is diffucult to obtain these days since it is an envrionmental hazard.

----
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles,Ca.
[email protected]

Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998
From: "Kotsinadelis, Peter (Peter)" [email protected]
Subject: RE: [Rollei] Coating lens & cleaning

Well, if you have greasy lens the best thing to use it alcohol, and thepurest you can find. Crystal clear is one on the market that works very well. I would steer clear of the ammonia products largely because they have water in them which can cause problems over time on the coatings.

In a pinch, you can use everclear whihc is really pure alcohol and not vodka. I fint the best middle ground for cleaning is to buy a quart of methanol at the hardware store. This is very close to 100% pure and at $3 per quart lasts quite a while.

Peter K

Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998
From: "Kotsinadelis, Peter (Peter)" [email protected]
Subject: RE: [Rollei] Coating lens

Why would you avoid methanol? Yes, it is poison if you drink it, but other than that there is no problems. Chemically is will not damage anything, but may dull painted areas if you clean it too long with it. IT also dries very fast and has no odor. Pure Ethyl alcohol is very hard to come by. Tokina uses a special Ethyl alcohol in the factory to clean the elements. As to 100% Isopropyl, it is only available through pharmacy and by prescription. The best you can find is 97%. The Government is afraid people will dilute it and make a drink out of it, hence the 3% impurities (which makeit smell, otherwise it is odorless) are added. I agree with you on the mixtures.

PK

Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998
From: Richard Knoppow [email protected]
Subject: RE: [Rollei] Coating lens

...
Isopropyl has the same problem with moisture absorption that Ethyl has. The 91% available off the shelf at drug stores here is suitable for use as a cleaning solvent. It is only 91% because of the water absorption not because of denaturing, it isn't drinkable in any case. Ethyl alcohol of about the same purity can be also be obtained at pharmacies here without paying a liquor tax. To get higher purities you need to buy these as reagent grade chemicals. Denatured alcohol is Ethyl with somthing else, usually Methyl in it to make it undrinkable.

Again, reagent grade Acetone is the traditional solvent used in lens assembly and solutions of ammonium carbonate are used as routine lens cleaners.

See the Summers Optical web site for information on how to clean lenses for re-cementing etc. http://www.emsdiasum.com/Summers/optical/cements/msds/default.html

...
----
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles,Ca.
[email protected]

Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998
From: "Lehman John A." [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Rollei] Trichloroethelyne availability

Richard Knoppow ([email protected]) wrote:

...

> Trichloroethelyne is also very effective but is diffucult to obtain
> these days since it is an envrionmental hazard.

It must vary by state, since I buy it in liter cans at the local Radio Shack where it is sold as a circuit board cleaner.

Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998
From: Carl Lantz [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Rollei] Trichloroethelyne availability

Lehman John A. wrote:

> Richard Knoppow ([email protected]) wrote:
> ...
> > Trichloroethelyne is also very effective but is diffucult to obtain
> > these days since it is an envrionmental hazard.
>
> It must vary by state, since I buy it in liter cans at the local Radio
> Shack where it is sold as a circuit board cleaner.

Trichloroethelyne can be very dangerous!

What you may be buying is probably trichloroethane.

I buy it as a chemical called Carbo-Chlor.

Carl Lantz

Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998
From: Richard Knoppow [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Rollei] Trichloroethelyne availability

...
I think you are right. The stuff that used to be put up in spray cans was 1,1,1,Trichloroethane. It is still available. I am not sure its any safer than Trichloroethylene. Both can be decomposed into toxic gasses and are a hazard around open flame. The ethylene is a suspected carcinogen but the ethane has also shown some carcinogenic activity in animal tests. Both are very good selective solvents.

But, I repeat, Acetone is the stuff routinely used in lens assembly. It is not needed for routine lens cleaning. For that Kodak or Edmund lens cleaner if just fine and safe to use and ROR evidently also works just fine. I would use whatever is cheapest.

Don't put any cleaner directly on the lens, apply it with lens cleaning tissue or Kimwipes and keep the lens facing down when applying it. That way none will run into the cell.

----
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles,Ca.
[email protected]

[Ed. related info on mirror cleaning...]
From Medium Format Digest:
From: stefan [email protected]
Subject: Response to How to clean camera mirror?
Date: 1998-10-20

A footnote to the above posting.

The fingerprint I could not see in the viewfinder so I elected not to worry about it. But there were little crumbs of black stuff (bits of decayed foam rubber or something similar) that were gluey and made annoying black spots. I took an old, dead, electronic SLR (unrepairable) and tried cleaning the mirror with a brush made from loosely wrapping a piece of lens tissue aroung the end of a cotton swab. This brush I made slightly damp with bestine.

It worked. The bestine left a cloudy residue on the surface of the mirror of the dead 35mm camera that evaporated in seconds. I tried it on a corner of the mirror of the hasselblad with no ill effect. I did the rest of the Hasse mirror and all the black stuff and the fingerprints came off.

The black stuff was in the camera when I bought it. I think there are some foam gaskets inside that are decaying; at some time in the future I would like to replace those.

If the black stuff returns I will try this cleaning methosd again but I don't reccommend you go slopping bestine on your camera mirror. I plan to do this sort of cleaning only when I absolutely must (like every 5 years or so). I offer no guarantees; try it at your own risk, although I would warn you that bestine may haze or dissolve certain plastic parts (I think the fresnel viewscreen (or ground glass) in most 35mm cameras is plastic). Try it on a camera you don't value, try it on the corner of the mirror --- if you cannot accept the fact that there is some risk involved here then don't do it.

The mirror of an SLR is silvered on the top surface, not the bottom like your bathroom mirror. This makes the least abrasive, brushing action harmful. Do not scrub. A repairman I met said he cleans camera mirrors with a lens tissue wad held in tweezers and is very careful not to let the tweezers touch the surface of the lens. He didn't know if solvent would work but suggested it might.

stefan

From: [email protected] (Wai Lun Alan Chan)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Lenses Coating
Date: 22 Oct 1998

>I've tried to clean my filters with a normal cloth I use for cleaning my
>spectacles but I find that introduces dust. I suppose that cloth they sell
>in camara shops are anti static but is it really any different from the
>normal cloth that we use??

That depends on what they are selling. I have tried the microfibre cloth from Pentax and Zeiss. Both are pretty good in most situations. The Pentax one is softer so easier to work with. The problem is they get dirty easily especially if U have sweaty hands, but can be washed.

>Would cleaning lenses with cleaning fluid remove the coating on the lenses
>and cause any discolouration in the pictures??  I hope to know more about
>this subject before trying anything funny with my filters or lenses.

Normally this won't happen, but don't rub them too hard or anything can happen. A product called "Lenspen" is also very popular and works better than microfibre cloth sometimes. If U have money to burn, a product from UK called "Opti-clean" is the very best. Brush it on, let it dry, and then peel it off. Absolutely clean!! At about UK$10 a little bottle (6ml), this product is not cheap. But if U have tried everything and still cannot remove some dirt, this is the one. However, it is available in the UK only. U have to mail order. U might contact [email protected] for more information.

>Does anyone here use orange filters for landscape pictures to enhance the
>contrast between the skies and clouds, I think there are people who does
>this with b&w film but what about colour film?      

For colour photography, U should use polarizer. Circular or linear (does not refer to their phyical sharp) depends on your camera.

===========================================================
=== regards, http://yallara.cs.rmit.edu.au/~wlac/ ===
=== Alan Chan [email protected] ===

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998
From: Dan Post [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Rollei] Plastic Cleaner

I have used the Turtle Wax rubbing and polishing compound to polish plastic, and paint. For plastic especially small pieces I use a damp cotton ball, and have even used it to polish up spots on my 2,8E where the paint was chipped. there I smoothed the chipped edges with crocus cloth- a very very fine iron oxide abrasive, used Fargo Enterprises Gloss Camera enamel- building up about three thin coats, then used the rubbing compound on a cotton swab to polish the finish to an almost new shine. I finished but applying a tiny amount of Johnson's Paste wax to seal the finish- sort of like touching up a fine auto- only smaller!

Dan
[email protected]

rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
From: "Mike" [email protected]
[1] Re: What do you clean the camera mirror with?
Date: Sun Nov 15 05:11:57 CST 1998

OK.......here's how I have cleaned mirrors for years. I use long fiber cotton such as from a roll of Johnson & Johnson. I roll it up on a tweezers and dampen with a high quality electronic degreaser like Blue Shower. Then I VERY lightly wipe the mirror. I use the same method to clean lenses. in over 20 years its never failed me. DO NOT use Blue Shower on plastic OR composite materials, It could damage the material.

--
Mike Jenkins
Over 20 years servicing medium format systems

rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
From: "ntc" [email protected]
[1] Re: What do you clean the camera mirror with?
Date: Sun Nov 15 22:30:50 CST 1998

If you can afford it , let the professional do the mirror cleaning job. Inexperience cleaning could either scratch the mirror (silver) coating or leave a nasty layer of film or streak mark on the mirror, which will dim the view thru finder (acetone does it everytime)

But if you like to experiment with any suggested cleaning techniques, try it on the piece of negatives and transparence first (errr not one of your favorite one tho )and watch for streak mark, scratches. If it doesnt hurt the plastic or the film emulsion, it should be safe enuff for old mirror coating. Newer mirror coating are much harder but I would not take any chances.

Do be careful with Acetone or any other strong degreasing chemical, it will melt your foam and other plastic around the mirror, and that could create more of the mess (!!!!)

Denatured Alcohol is one of the safe thing to try, I had used it to clean negative and transparency in my old lab a few time. dont use anything other than Kodak Lens Tissue if you must, it wont leave much lint and if you careful it wont scratch the cleaning surface.

these are just a few cent worth from an ex-optical engineer/holographer

CN

rec.photo.equipment.35mm
From: [email protected] (Dave Martindale)
[1] Re: Cleaning lenses w/ caked dirt
Date: Wed Dec 02 21:54:08 CST 1998

[email protected] writes:

>Is there a solvent that I can use to clean a really dirty lens?  I have  tried
>lens-cleaning wipes, then wipes with water, and then more pressure than I
>really ought to apply, and the lens is still caked.  I wonder whether it  have
>combined with something.  Maybe this is hopeless.  Any advice?

Before you start, take a good look at the contamination under a good loupe or microscope. There have been times when I was unable to clean something off a filter, and close examination showed that there was no dirt there. Instead, the filter's coating was damaged in that spot. Since raw glass reflects up to 8 times as much light as glass with a good anti-reflection coating, areas of coating damage really stand out. But they can't be cleaned away.

It depends on what the glop is.

For most real-world glop, water with a little detergent in it (often in the form of lens cleaning fluid) will take it off. Sounds like you've already tried this.

Some kinds of contaminants respond well to isopropyl alcohol. You need a source of *pure* isopropyl - rubbing alcohol has added water and sometimes oil and other glop.

Other kinds of contaminants can be dissolved by lighter fluid - the stuff that comes in cans for liquid-fueled cigarette lighters. Surprisingly, it seems quite pure.

These solvents dissolve things other than dirt (like plastic), so you want to make sure they are applied to the glass only. Use a rolled-up wad of lens cleaner or cotton Q-tip that is damp but *not* wet with solvent. You don't want it being sucked in between the lens and its retaining ring.

Also, these evaporate fairly quickly, and it's difficult to wipe them up (with some lens cleaning tissue or a dry Q-tip) before they dry. So it's quite possible for the solvent to dissolve some glop, move to somewhere else on the lens, and then evaporate leaving glop behind. Multiple attempts may be necessary, but as long as you are removing some glop each time, you'll eventually get it.

Whatever you are using for drying, throw it out after one pass. Don't try re-using lens tissue, or you'll be transferring glop back onto your lens.

You may find that after using solvent, you want to go back and try lens cleaning fluid (water) again.

If you use lens cleaning tissues, either handle them with gloves or be *very* careful not to touch the lens with a portion of the tissue that you've touched with your fingers. I don't know how often I've spoiled a lens cleaning job by getting fingerprint oil on the lens via the drying tissue.

I've heard of people using acetone to clean lenses. Acetone attacks many kinds of plastics, so I'd try this only as a last resort. In fact, I've never used it myself. You *really* don't want to get this stuff inside the lens mechanism.

Dave

rec.photo.equipment.35mm
From: [email protected]
[1] Re: WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE...
Date: Fri Dec 11 05:44:40 CST 1998

[email protected] wrote:

> I'll have to say that little unknown factory out in Taiwan (or was that
> Thailand). great lens cap. they seem to make it for everyone.

It is a little-known fact that using cheap third-party lens caps is dangerous to the health of your lenses. Plasticizer fumes from some of them will strip the multicoating right off the front of your lens, greatly reducing the contrast in your images. Stick with proper name-brand caps to be safe.

Bob

rec.photo.equipment.35mm
From: Victor Grubsky [email protected]
[1] Re: Help: Cleaning Lenses
Date: Wed Jan 13 19:59:35 CST 1999

Gerry,

You heard several opinions here how to clean lenses. You can use these methods with variable success but you are always at risk of scratching the lens surface. I do optics for living, and here is how I do it in a lab.

You need:

1) tweezers;

2) clean dehydrated alcohol (methanol or ethanol; commercial isopropyl alcohol will also work but not as well), "lens cleaning liquids" not advised.

3) lens cleaning paper (Kodak makes very good one).

Procedure: Lens cleaning paper usually comes in size about 3"x4". Wash your hands and fold one sheet down to ~1/2"x1/2" size. Grab it with tweezers, so that ~1/5" is outside of the tweezers. Put several drops of alcohol on that portion o f paper until it becomes wet (but not dripping). Gently wipe the lens surface with the paper. If the lens has a lot of dirt on it, use one piece of paper to do rough cleaning and another piece of paper for thorough cleaning. If the lens surface has some big chunks on it, wipe it only in one direction changing paper sheets often to avoid scratching the surface.

Good luck,

Victor

From: [email protected] (Joshua_Putnam)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.equipment.misc,rec.photo.misc
Subject: Re: Best way to clean sea salt off lens?
Date: 21 Dec 1998

David Mikulin [email protected] writes:

>Just back from a trip to Hawaii and noticed there are a lot of salt
>spots on my caera lens.  What's the best way to clean the salt off the
>lens without scratching it?  My first guess is to use a liquid (water /
>alcohol) to dissolve the salt first.

I usually use a soft cotton cloth soaked in distilled water to dissolve salt off of lens surfaces -- don't wipe at all at first, just hold the wet cloth in place on the surface and the salt dissolves into the water on the cloth. Repeat a few times, then go ahead with your usual lens cleaning method.

--

[email protected] is Joshua Putnam / P.O. Box 13220 / Burton, WA 98013

From: [email protected] (Dave Greenlee)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.equipment.misc,rec.photo.misc
Subject: Re: Best way to clean sea salt off lens?
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998

>Just back from a trip to Hawaii and noticed there are a lot of salt
>spots on my caera lens.  What's the best way to clean the salt off the
>lens without scratching it?  My first guess is to use a liquid (water /
>alcohol) to dissolve the salt first.

1. Don't do any rubbing until you disolve any solids. You may be able to remove some salt/dirt by blowing with compressed air.

2. Don't apply any liquids directly to the lens. The seals are not inended to be waterproof and some liquid may find its way inside the lens.

Your best bet is to take any reasonably soft, absorbent material (paper towel, washcloth, T-shirt, etc.) and dampen until it's moist, but not dripping. Gently apply to glass and hold steady for a couple minutes to dissolve salt and absorb. Find a clean patch of material and repeat process until you're reasonably sure that you've gotten it all. Set lens aside to dry, then confirm no remaining grit. Then, clean lens normally to remove any lint or water spots.

rec.photo.equipment.35mm
From: [email protected]
[1] Re: Cleaning a lens
Date: Sun Feb 07 08:30:17 CST 1999

Charlie Wolfe [email protected] wrote:

> I am always anxious about damaging the lens element coating when
> attempting to "clean" an expensive lens.
>
> What is the "proper" method for cleaning the front lens element?
>
> Thanks,
> Charlie

The most common damage repair shops see is lens scratching from over zealous cleaning.

Lenses should be cleaned as seldom as possible. A little dust won't hurt the photos.

When a lens REALLY needs to be cleaned, such as when it gets a greasy fingerprint, you should first blow off all surface dust. Hold the lens with the front down, and blow with an ear syringe or similar. I don't recommend the "canned air" since it has been shown in tests to come out with enough velocity in some cases to damage some coatings. Gentle blowing is all that is required.

Once you have done this, inspect the element with a bright light to see if anything is still clinging to the front element. If so, use a soft clean brush to loosen it, and then blow again, and inspect again.

Once all visible dust is gone, then, and only then, can you use lens tissue or a lens cloth. The old rule was always "never touch a lens with a dry tissue or cloth". Moisten the lens tissue or lens cloth with a good quality lens cleaner and wipe gently in a circular motion, starting in the center and working to the edges.

The best lens cleaner I have ever found is Bonito, currently available in Europe and the UK, but not yet in the USA. The next best things are the lens cleaners sold by Deutsche Optik and Singh-Ray.

Bob

Date: 31 Dec 1998
From: Charles Steinmetz [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.large-format
Subject: Re: Cleaning Lenses

One more opinion:

(CAUTION -- exercise judgment -- your mileage may vary)

I was disappointed with ROR -- it did not do, for me, what it claims. So I went back to what has worked extremely well for me for several decades -- 99% isopropyl alcohol. (This, or 91%, was once generally available only in little 4 oz. bottles from the pharmacy -- now it's commonly available in 16 oz. bottles from the grocery or pharmacy.) CAUTION: do not use anything labeled "rubbing alcohol." Use only 99% [or 91%] isopropyl alcohol, with no additives. 90% grain alcohol ("Everclear") works too, but it is not as aggressive at dissolving films of crud on older lenses. Acetone is great, but NOT ON ASSEMBLED LENSES and NOT ON PLASTIC LENSES, because it dissolves most paints and plastics.

Contrary to some advice here in the group, I clean the front and back surfaces of each lens every time I use it. I also disassemble the elements to clean all the internal surfaces whenever they show the slightest film (viewed by shining a small flashlight obliquely into the lens and looking through the other end with the shutter open). If you don't wait until there's a build-up of grit on the lens, you're much less likely to scratch it. I still have the first good lens I ever owned, and after 33 years of this treatment the glass looks exactly like my newest lens under the microscope. I've used Kodak lens tissue and micro-fiber cloth with good results. Avoid inferior lens tissue -- the stuff you get free from your camera dealer, or anything designed for eyeglasses. DON'T PRESS OR RUB -- use a "tuft" of tissue so you can't put any pressure on the lens surface. Wet the tissue, not the lens. Get it pretty wet, but not dripping wet. Follow with a tufted, dry tissue. Keep doing it until the lens is spotless (no streaks). This may take a while at first, because there's crud under the retaining ring at the edge of the lens that the alcohol dissolves and washes out onto the surface. Check your results by breathing on the lens to fog it. A properly clean lens will show no streaks when fogged, and the fog will clear absolutely evenly.

Now, a question: I've heard of "goop" you apply to a lens that dries to a sort of rubbery, peel-off layer -- kind of like facial mask. Does anybody here have any experience with this stuff, or at least know a product name or supplier?

Enjoy!

Charles

From: Roger Bergeron [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: found ROR. (lens clean) supplier
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999

I've read mention of this 'ROR.' solution for lens cleaning. Locally in northern california, I've not come across it at local shops. Finally, I see it advertised in a catalog. Just in case anybody else is interested, here's where I found it.

Archival Image (800-688-2485)
PO BOX 3776
Ocala, Fla. 34478

1 oz squeeze bottle $2.99 / 2 oz spray $5.29 (plus shipping)

I'm hoping that this finally gets rid of that residue that just won't go away no matter what I've tried so far. (Also hoping no damage occurs to any lens coating on my Nikons.)

Roger

From: [email protected] (Helge Nareid)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.large-format
Subject: Re: Cleaning Old Lens' Surfaces
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999

[email protected] (Richard Knoppow) wrote:

>  Actually, coatings are easier to scratch than bare glass.

This is nearly always true, even though _modern_ coatings can be very scratch resistant. In particular, the coatings on the outer (exposed) elements of a modern multicoated lens are nearly always designed with scratch-resistance in mind. The term multi-coating covers a wide range of coating types, and they are normally matched very closely to the application. On the other side of scratch resistance - I had occasion to discuss customised coatings with a coating specialist last week, and he mentioned coating types which would be severely damaged by contact even with water condensation.

>  If its dusty blow as much surface dust as possible off using a hand
>operated blower. Then brush off what is left using a brush made of
>lens tissue by rolling a piece of tissue into a tube, then tear it in
>the middle and fold the two halves back so that the feathered end  
>makes a brush. Use each once only, picking up as much dust as it will
>hold. Then toss it and make another.

Good advice.

>  The surfaces can be cleaned using any standard lens cleaner. If the
>lens is quite dirty place the tissue across the lens and drop some
>cleaner onto it. Drag the tissue off the lens. Use fresh tissue each
>time.
>  All this is a bit heroic for most cases but will be helpful when a
>lens has a lot of grit on it.

>  If there is oil on the surface try 91% Isopropyl alcohol. If that
>doesn't do it the standard optical shop cleaner is reagent grade
>Acetone. Acetone must be used with great care since it will dissolve
>paint and optical cement. 

We tend to use methanol. It is slightly less effective than acetone, but it is much safer in use, and is much less to likely to inadvertently remove an expensive coating. Pure ethanol is nearly as effective - in the region I come from in Norway, moonshining is a fine (albeit illegal) tradition, and a friend of mine used to make moonshine of a quality suitable for lens cleaning (which is highly uncommon, by the way) ...

--
- Helge Nareid
Nordmann i utlendighet, Aberdeen, Scotland

Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000
From: Dan Cardish [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Best method to clean the lense glass...

Every book and instruction sheet that I have ever seen with information about lens cleaning warns against using the silicone-treated paper meant for eyeglass cleaning. These papers apparently will scratch and or damage the coating on the lens.

Dan C.

[ED. note: not all coatings are "rock hard" see lens faults pages...]
From Hasselblad Mailing List:
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000
From: Jim Brick [email protected]
Subject: Re: Best method to clean the lense glass...

Tools:

Microfiber cloth - clean

ROR

Chamois (or tee shirt cloth) - clean

0. Make sure there is no heavy "grit" on the lens surface.

1. Breath and microfiber cloth. Don't be afraid to rub. if that doesn't get everything,

2. ROR and a chamois. Scrub as much as necessary. Lens coatings are rock hard.

If you have a problem really cleaning your lenses, don't ever go to a Leica or Hasselblad "clean and check" session. They use exactly what I outlined above. I've been cleaning my lenses for fifty years and have NEVER EVER damaged a lens by cleaning. And my lenses are always sparkling clean.

If you local dealer doesn't have it, get ROR from the manufacturer by calling (212) 877-8760.

Jim

Austin Franklin wrote:

>What, do you guys think, is the best/safest way to clean your Zeiss lenses?
>
>Typically, I have been using canned air (that, if sprayed 'wrong' leaves
>residue), brush (that leaves streaks...), Kodak lense paper and lense
>cleaning fluid...that doesn't get the lense perfectly clean no matter how
>hard I try...
>
>Thanks, and Happy New Year!
>
>Austin

From Hasselblad Mailing List;
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000
From: Steve Grimes [email protected]
Subject: Re: Best method to clean the lense glass...

"Cleaning marks" is a euphemism for abrasions to the coatings and surface of a lens that don't quite qualify as actual scratches. They are caused by using hard lens tissue, shirttails, and/or too frequent cleaning of a lens by absentmindedly twirling a balled up rag or such around the surface of the lens.

Its best to avoid touching a lens surface, if it has to be touched use only a no additive complete evaporating cleaner (Test the cleaner by pacing a droplet on a piece of plain glass and see what's left after it evaporates-- there must, at a minimum, be no greasy residue) and the softest no additive paper tissue (such as plain white Kleenex) or preferably many many times washed 100% cotton as used in "t" shirts. Always, always have some kind of moisture on the surface of the lens when touching it with anything at all.

S.K. GRIMES -- FEINMECHANIK -- MACHINE WORK FOR PHOTOGRAPHERS
153 Hamlet Ave. (5th floor) Woonsocket RI, 02895

[Ed. note: Mr. Grimes is a well known lens and shutter repairperson and lens "mechanic"...]
From Hasselblad Mailing List:
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000
From: Steve Grimes [email protected]
Subject: Re: Best method to clean the lense glass...

I suggest you not use Kodak lens tissue or Kodak lens cleaner. Both have additives which seem to leave a greasy residue. I use a product from Denton Vacuum Co.: http://www.dentonvacuum.com/index.htm I buy a case or two for my own use every once in a while -- Its not featured on their web-site and it may be retailed by Edmund Scientific; brand name "Super-Cote" cleaner. SKG

S.K. GRIMES -- FEINMECHANIK -- MACHINE WORK FOR PHOTOGRAPHERS
153 Hamlet Ave. (5th floor) Woonsocket RI, 02895

[Ed. note: Mr. Nagler developed the popular Nagler series eyepieces for astronomical telescopes etc.]
From: "Fdeal" [email protected]
Newsgroups: sci.astro.amateur
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000
Subject: Re: Mirror Cleaning Product

This is what Al Nagler said about cleaning solutions:

"Choosing a cleaning fluid is the most widely debated topic involving lens cleaning. The anti-reflective coatings on eyepieces and objective lenses are durable enough so that almost no liquid (short of a corrosive) is going to damage them, although some cleaning fluids can leave a film. Reagent grade acetone and methanol are ideal, and may be available in some pharmacies, but alcohol or acetone from a hardware store can also be used. Do not use nail polish remover, as this usually contains perfumes and oils which will leave a film. Windex or Glass Plus can be used to remove water-soluble deposits. If you have a favorite lens cleaner, feel free to continue using it. Methodology is what's most important."

Excerpt from TeleVue's page on Astonomy-Mall.

I had good luck with the acetone mainly because it is so easy to work with. Once you remove the gook there is no more worry about residue. BTW, the GC grade acetone is much more pure than reagent grade - retails for about $120 per gallon though.

Peace,

Frederick Deal

> >From: "Fdeal" [email protected]
>
> >I found this hole in the wall company here in Phoenix that sells "Gas
> >Chromatography" grade acetone (HR-GC grade to be more specific).  It is
> >guaranteed to leave no more than one part per million residue.
>
> In GC/MS (gas chromatography-mass spectroscopy), even minute amounts of
> impurity can screw up the results.
>
> I would worry about acetone affecting multicoatings, but if not, the lack of
> impurities is very useful.

Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999
From: "David Foy" [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Fog on lens on TLR

Use a 50/50 mixture of hydrogen peroxide (household concentration, from the supermarket or drug store) and ammonia cleaner (also household concentration). Mix it just before you use it, since it doesn't keep. Swab it on gently with a Q-tip. It removes haze and atmospheric deposits, which is often confused with fungus, but it won't actually repair a lens which has been damaged by fungus. It's worth a try on your Elmoflex. This cleaning technique isn't original with me -- it came from Ed Romney.

Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Fog on lens on TLR

I have had great luck with equal parts of ammonia mixed with hydrogen peroxide. I apply with Q-tips, sometimes it requires moderately aggressive rubbing. For cleaning marks on the front lens, typically these marks have to be extremely bad to effect the picture quality. I have polished them out using jewlers rouge, this will remove the coating on the lens (I use this only on a lens that will be displayed, I would not use this on any lens that I intend to use).

karl

[ed. note: some TLRs have shiny metal finish lens covers or caps, here's a tip for other owners looking to clean these...]
From Rollei Mailing List:
Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999
From: "Kotsinadelis, Peter (Peter)" [email protected]
Subject: RE: [Rollei] Mirror Lens Cap

Russ,

Its a metal coating. I have used Noxon with a Q-Tip but you have to be careful not too use it too much because it will remove the metal. Once is all you really need. It will get rid of mst of the scratches.

Peter K

> From:         Russell Wheeldon[SMTP:[email protected]]
> Reply To:     [email protected]
> Sent:         Saturday, December 11, 1999 7:19 AM
> To:   Rollei Users List
> Subject:      [Rollei] Mirror Lens Cap
>
> Does anyone know exactly what the mirror finish is made of and how best to
> renovate a slightly scratched surface back to an as-new mirror finish?
> Polishing with a soft cloth seems to add additional fine scratches! If it
> is Chromium is a re-chrome required?
>
> Russell Wheeldon
> Manchester, UK.
> [email protected]

From Nikon Mailing List:
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999
From: Simon Freidin [email protected]
Subject: [NIKON] How to clean the mirror?

To clean your nikon mirror (there are instructions in the camera manual)

1.. Look at mirror and note the partial mirroring has coloured irregularities (see 4 below)

2. Blow off dust with large rubber bulb blower. Don't use canned gas - it can leave a nasty oily reside if the can is tipped over during use (ie when you need to just get that back corner)

3. Gently wipe clean with micro-fibre cleaning cloth - good ones made by Dust-off, Hoya etc. They remove grease from mirrors and lenses without damage.

4. See coloured irregularities in the clean mirror and know that you didn't damage the mirror 'cause they were there before you wiped it :-)

Simon

From Contax Mailing List:
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000
From: "Bob Shell" [email protected]
Subject: Re: [CONTAX] "Purple" Smudge on mirror

I use lens cleaning fluid which is generally made of isopropyl alcohol, water, and a little detergent. I don't think anything in it is toxic. Acetone is suspected as a carcinogen and not so easy to get around here.

I was at Schneider's USA facility last week and they use acetone to clean filter blanks and lens elements, but with very elaborate ventilation systems. You don't smell a thing when you walk through their production area.

Bob

From Hasselblad Mailing List:
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000
From: Joe Codispoti [email protected]
Subject: Re: Cleaning with Microfiber?

Marc,

I have tried the local fabric stores in several cities but the type of microfiber that is used in lens cleaning is manufactured only in Japan and is not carried by stores in bolts of fabric. The "micro" fiber found in local stores is not fine enough to qualify for the genuine article, nor does it have the micro "hooks". According to the my sources only Japan has the technology to spin a thread fine enough to be called micro. I was told the head of a leading fabric manufacturer in Los Angeles, that the majority of resellers of microfiber cloth have turned to other materials because of the exorbitant cost of the fabric. Many companies now market a microfiber cloth that feels like microfiber, has the properties of microfiber, but looks like terrycloth. IMHO it is too thick and can trap grit that could scratch lenses. It is marketed as a household cleaning item.

Joe

...

[Ed. note: about mirror cleaning - be warned, it is easy to damage a front surface mirror by improper cleaning etc...]
From: [email protected] (Paul Secinaro)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Date: 14 Jul 2000
Subject: Re: Mirror cleaning?

I would suggest going to deja.com and doing a discussion search on "collodion". You should get at least a few hits from the astronomy newsgroups, where cleaning large expensive mirrors is a common chore. I've never used it but collodion is supposedly a sort of gooey stuff (I think they use it in liquid bandages, and also early wet-plate photography) that you spread on the mirror and let dry. Then you peel it off, along with all the dust, oil, and gunk that was on the surface. It is totally non-abrasive and apparently it is what many camera techs use to clean mirrors. You can order it at pharmacies by asking for pure collodion U.S.P.. It's also good for cleaning lenses. Sounds tricky to use on a mirror though since you're working in such confined quarters with so many delicate things nearby (like shutter curtains, focusing screens, and light sensors).

There's also a product called Opti-Clear that's supposed to work even better, but it's very expensive.

Paul

From Contax Mailing List:
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000
From: "Bob Shell" [email protected]
Subject: Re: [CONTAX] Re: Blower

I don't know where you are located. In the USA the best and easiest brush to buy is a ladies makeup brush available from beautician's supply shops. If you have a Sally Beauty Supply store in your area, they have a good variety. These are made from very soft hair and will not damage lenses or cameras.

The best blower is an ear syringe (for squirting water into your ears) from a drugstore. They come in different sizes and I find one of the medium ones (about 3 1/2 inches long) perfect for lenses and cameras.

The combination blower/brush sold in camera stores, in my opinion, are a waste of money.

Bob

- ----------

>From: "Terry Sham" [email protected]
>Subject: [CONTAX] Re: Blower
>Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000, 10:23 PM
>
>I think the compressed air is difficult to use. Would you mind to recommend
>a good blower and brush to me.

From Leica Mailing List:
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000
From: Jim Brick [email protected]
Subject: [Leica] Re: Pancro "professional" lens cleaning fluid

I agree 100%. I switched from ROR to ClearSight about six months ago and it is indeed, great stuff.

Jim

Brian Reid wrote:

>I am a fanatically happy user of ClearSight optical cleaner; see
>
>http://www.thegrid.net/joecodi/clearsight.html
>
>It does not leave any residue. I once used ROR, but this stuff is
>better. Not half an hour ago I cleaned the glass of my flatbed scanner
>with it.

From Rollei Mailing List:
Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000
From: Richard Knoppow [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Rollei] Planar 2.8F Service?

you wrote:

>Hello,
>
>I just picked up a 2.8F in EX ++ condition. That would be my guess not being
>a Rollei specialist. I must say it is an amazing pece of workmanship.
>
>The camera seems to have been sitting for quite some time. Although
>everything seems to work properly, in looking through the taking lens there
>is noticable dust. I don't want to risk scratching the lens and am wondering
>if anyone has a surefire way of cleaning lenses.  Am I better off sending it
>out for a CLA?
>
>If CLA is the way to go I would appreciate any recomendations.

If the dust is on the outside of the lens it should be easily removable without scatching. First, blow off as much as you can with a hand air bulb.

Then use Kodak lens tissue as a one-time brush. I recommend Kodak tissue because it becomes feathery when torn. The brush is made by taking a tissue, roll it into a tube and tear in half. Fold it so that the torn ends are together. Use this as a one-time brush. Pick up as much dust with it as you can in _one_ pass. Then make another bush and us _it_ once. Do this until most of the dust has been removed.

Then use a tissue with Kodak lens cleaner. Lay the tissue on the lens and put a drop of cleaner on it. Then drag it off the lens. Use it once and do the same thing with another tissue. After nearly all the dirt has been removed you can use a tissue with some cleaner on it to finish the job.

This rather elaborate method is suggested when a lens is really dirty, you don't need to do all this stuff each time. Mostly lenses just need to be blown off gently every so often.

If the lens has gotten oily try ROR, a lens cleaner made by Photographic Solutions. For real problems Acetone is the standard optical parts cleaner but is dangerous to use on a camera since it will dissolve plastic and paint. Its strictly a last resort.

Kim Wipes will do instead of the Kodak tissues but don't make quite as good brushes.

Although Windex probably won't hurt the lens it is considerably more alkaline than the Kodak cleaner. Windex is Ammonium hydroxide, Kodak cleaner is ammonium carbonate and two wetting agents, an ionic and a non-ionic one.

Lenses which are dusty inside, or which are hazy inside, are best left to an expert, although the procedue for opening them is not particularly complicated or difficult.

The centering of lenses, of which you are warned often, is accomplished by the mounting itself and by precision manufacture. If a lens is put back in its mount carefully the mounting will automatically center it provided it was made correctly.

----
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles,Ca.
[email protected]

From Leica Mailing List:
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000
From: Jim Brick [email protected]
Subject: [Leica] Re: underware

Ted wrote:

>As for the "under short cleaning cloth,?"  Sure it's a worth while topic from real life
>experience of acquiring free lens cleaning material for those precious Leica lenses some
>LUGNUTS carry on about. You unfortunately don't take this seriously! But the information
>is passed on most sincerely .
>.
>So what's your problem of giving free advice from a long time Leica User, to
>those who wish to clean their lenses! At least it may save them some money for film
>rather than buying an exorbitantly over priced piece of material that "will not do any
>better job!".
>
>ted Grant

Yeah!!! I agree!!! Even though I have some of those microfiber cloths, which were given to me as promotions, I still prefer a ripped off piece of cotton Tee shirt or a ripped off piece of cotton jockey shorts. And I have been cleaning all of my lenses (some date back to the 60's) a lot over the years and there is nary a mark or fletch on any glass. Many of the microfiber cloths are so smooth and slick, you can't get a grip to actually clean your lens.

Lenses and cameras were made to be used and used and used. The more you use them the better they work.

If you are out photographing and you look down and there is crud on your lens, give it a blow, then breath on it, then pull out your shirt tail and give it a wipe. Then continue photographing. When you are done, tuck in your shirt.

Jim

[Ed. note: a handy tip from noted glamour photographer and Shutterbug's editor, Mr. Bob Shell...]
From Rollei Mailing List;
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000
From: Bob Shell [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Rollei] Strong performance from the Jena Tessar (MX)

> From: [email protected] (Print It, Inc.)
> Reply-To: [email protected]
> Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000
> Subject: Re: [Rollei] Strong performance from the Jena Tessar (MX)
>
> What is UV-type haze? I have 2 out of 3 f2/50 Schneider Xenons with haze,
> some of it relatively easily cleaned off, and some VERY difficult to remove.
> In fact, so difficult that i have not yet succeeded completely. Even tried a
> small amount of toothpaste. Kodak, ROR, and Acetone won't remove it.
> pk

I don't know if we're talking about the same thing, but some types of optical glass are subject to surface staining. I've been working with one of the optical designers at Schneider trying to clean some of this off a lens element I have. His advice is to couple hot breath on the lens with an immediate wipe with an acetone dampened lens tissue. This does take off the surface stains, but it may take many applications to do it.

Bob

From Rollei Mailing List;
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000
From: Richard Knoppow [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Rollei] Strong performance from the Jena Tessar (MX)

you wrote:

>> From: [email protected] (Print It, Inc.)
>> Reply-To: [email protected]
>> Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 
>> Subject: Re: [Rollei] Strong performance from the Jena Tessar (MX)
>>
>> What is UV-type haze? I have 2 out of 3 f2/50 Schneider Xenons with haze,
>> some of it relatively easily cleaned off, and some VERY difficult to remove.
>> In fact, so difficult that i have not yet succeeded completely. Even
tried a
>> small amount of toothpaste. Kodak, ROR, and Acetone won't remove it.
>> pk
>
>
>I don't know if we're talking about the same thing, but some types of
>optical glass are subject to surface staining.  I've been working with
one
>of the optical designers at Schneider trying to clean some of this off a
>lens element I have.  His advice is to couple hot breath on the lens with
>an immediate wipe with an acetone dampened lens tissue.  This does take
>off the surface stains, but it may take many applications to do it.
>
>Bob

A good many lenses seem to develop a whitish haze on inside surfaces. I don't know the cause for certain. Mostly it comes off with lens cleaner. Other cleaners to try are pure Acetone (the stuff from the hardware store may leave residue), pure Methyl alcohol, or a non-ammonia type glass cleaner like Glass-Plus or Sparkle (not Spray-and-Sparkle, which is an ammonia cleaner, like Windex). Acetone should be used with great caution since it dissolves many kinds of paints and plastics.

If the haze won't come off examine it with a loupe and flashlight to make sure it isn't fine etching from fungus. Etching is not removable.

I've also encountered old lenses with black dirt inside. It looks like the lens was held over a candle. This stuff came off with lens cleaner. The last lens like this I cleaned was a c.1938 Tessar on a Speed Graphic which had been in storage for many years. It cleaned up perfectly and is an excellent lens.

Haze can develop in lenses in a surprizingly short time.

Glass can become discolored from oxidation. This often looks like an oil film on the surface, sometimes like a bluish cast. It functions similarly to a lens coating so is no problem. It can not be removed by solvents, only by re-polishing the surfaces. Since is probably improves the lens slightly it should just be left alone.

Note that separation of cemented elements, especially those cemented with synthetic cement, can also result in an oil-film look. However, this will clearly be inside the lens, not on the surface. Tarnish is usually found mostly on the front surface due to its greater exposure to the air. However, various kinds of glass are more or less subject to it so there can be a lot of variation.

Some glass "stains" or turns brown. Good optical glass should not do this unless subjected to intense radiation. A few lenses were made with radio active glass during WW-2 and often the radio-active elements have browned with age.

----
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles,Ca.
[email protected]

From Rollei Mailing List;
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Rollei] OFF-TOPIC cleaning recipe

> see http://www.smu.edu/~rmonagha/broncleaning.html on lens cleaning tips
>
> the 50/50 hydrogen peroxide (drug store) and household ammonia worked
> well with some old hazy lenses for large format, might be worth a try?

Just for those interested in Silicon microtechnology : the 50/50 hydrogen peroxide + ammonia recipe is the first step of the so-called "RCA" standard cleaning process for Silicon wafers (the main difference with house hold chemicals is that silicon processing chemicals should be of the purest grade). It removes all organic contaminants. I assume the mixture is un-stable and should be discarded after use.

BTW speaking about ammonia, here is the recipe to blacken brass optical parts: make a solution of copper sulfate in ammonia. Just dip the brass parts after a careful cleaning to removing all grease (aceton, alcool). The technicians at Institut d'Optique who did that used to warm the mixture up to 70-80 deg. C (150-165F), but at this temperature it is impossible to work without a laboratory vented hood. I assume that at a lower tempreature the process will be simply very long which may not be a problem for doing it once at home.

-- Emmanuel BIGLER [email protected]

From Rollei Mailing List;
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000
From: Richard Knoppow [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Rollei] OFF-TOPIC cleaning recipe

....[above post]

This is curiously very similar to Kodak HE-1 Hypo Eliminator, a combination of weak hydrogen peroxide alkalized with ammonium hydroxide.

Most glass cleaners, like Windex, are dilute Ammonium hydroxide with added surfactants. Kodak Lens Cleaner is Ammonium Carbonate and two surfactants, one ionic and one non-ionic. There are glass cleaners like Glass-Plus or Sparkle which do not contain ammonia. According to Helge Naried, who is a Phd optician, the current standard cleaning solvent for optical assembly is reagent grade methyl alcohol. In the past reagent grade Acetone was recommended. The very pure state is to avoid streaking or other residue from contaminants.

Since some types of optical glass are attacked by strong alkalies it is best to avoid them.

----
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles,Ca.
[email protected]

From Rollei Mailing List;
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000
From: "Kotsinadelis, Peter (Peter)" [email protected]
Subject: [Rollei] Lens cleaning

A good friend of mine uses Everclear Vodka for lens cleaning. Its inexpensive, near pure and does not streak. Personally I use methanol for a dirty lens and ROR on occasion.

Peter K

Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001
From: [email protected] (Richard Knoppow)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.large-format
Subject: Re: lens haze

"Robert" [email protected] wrote:

>If a lens has a slight haze, What causes it and can you fix it? or does that
>come with age?

A lot of lenses seem to get a coating of white haze on inside surfaces. I am not sure of the cause, possibly its from the anti-reflection paint in the cell outgassing over many years. In any case, it cleans off with ordinary lens cleaner. Getting at the inside of the cell is usually pretty easy but how exactly depends on how the lens is mounted.

Some larger lenses have threaded back retaining caps, but many lenses have threaded retaining rings on front or back which do not have slots. These are removed with a friction tool. The easiest way to make one is to take anything tubular which is the right size to fit the ring and put double-stick tape over its edge. Use that to turn the ring. Some rings have paint over the threads on the front of the cell, that must be cleaned off by very carefully swabbing it off with some Acetone on a cotton swab.

Once the retaining rings or caps are removed the lens element will simply fall out with a little coaxing, or can be helped out with a little sticky tape applied to its apex (make sure its clean). Once the cell is open clean the available glass surfaces with lens cleaner. The lens element can be replaced with the aid of a little tape on its apex as above. Most elements fit fairly closely into the mount so will settle in slowly as the air escapes around the edge, don't try to hurry it. You can poke it slightly to make sure it goes in square. If its cocked don't force it, you will chip the edge. Once in replace the cap or ring. The design of the lens mounting is such that lens elements are automatically centered, you can NOT disturb the centering by removing and replacing an element in a mounting despite the frequent warnings about it. The spherical surfaces of the glass are held by a narrow ring on either side so it will be pushed to the center automatically.

Even a fairly light haze will devestate the contrast of a lens. I think that it is a common reason some older lenses compare badly with newer ones. Certainly modern coatings are very effective but most old LF lenses have few glass air surfaces and should have very good contrast, at least visually, if not dirty or damaged.

A note: Some haze is the result of fungus. If caught early it can be removed as above and the glass should be given a wipe with Chlorox to kill off the spores. Fungus emmits acid as part of its life cycle, the acid can etch or pit the glass, leaving a ground glass effect in patches where the fungus was. There is no fix for this, the lens is ruined.

To prevent fungus or mildew lenses (or anything else) should be stored in cool, dry surroundings.

---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, Ca.
[email protected]

From Rollei Mailing List;
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001
From: Richard Knoppow [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Rollei] Shutter cleaning with alchol?

you wrote:

>Following recent discussions on cleaning shutters I popped down to my
>chemist today to buy some alcohol. They had no ether, and she gave me a
>bottle with a label that reads
>
>'METHYL ALCOHOL 99.3%'
>
>Is this suitable for cleaning shutters and lenses?  I will be cleaning the
>entire shutter by immersion.
>
>Thanks,
>Shaun
>South Korea

I am informed by a friend who works with very advanced optical systems that pure methyl alcohol is now the precribed standard cleaner for optical parts. I don't know about shutters but I doubt it would damage anything. I would check it on the paint. Naptha works well for shutters. The best solvent was 1,1,1,trichloroethane but its a serious environmental hazard and not easily availalable. Immerse the shutter and blow out the excess solvent with air after taking the shutter out. The idea is to remove any oil or grease and leave no residue especially on the shutter blades. If the shutter needs lubricating (many will run fine dry) use a very fine synthetic oil on the bearings of the gears of the clock work speed regulator. Compur also specifies a very light molebdenum grease for certain sliding parts. When I talked to the last distributor for Compur some ten or so years ago, they were recommending operation of the shutters as nearly dry as possible.

Kodak Lens Cleaner is a very respectible cleaner for optical parts. Its intended to be non-damaging with a more neutral pH than window cleaners like Windex, which are otherwise similar.

----
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles,Ca.
[email protected]

From Rollei Mailing List;
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001
From: Richard Knoppow [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Rollei] testing focus by projection?

you wrote:

>Thanks Richard,
>
>I'm curious about your standard.  Would that be with the uncoated Jena
>Tessar?  I have a chance to buy an earlier automat with the bayonet on
>the taking lens only and a Jena Tessar.  I've heard a few favorable
>comments about these recently.
>
>Gene

Mine is about a 1936 model. It has an uncoated Jena Tessar but no bayonets, only push-on accessories fit it.

The lens is a good one. I also have two f/4.5 Jena Tessars on old Speed Graphics. Both are very sharp lenses. They have detectable spherical aberration when wide open but are sharp to the edges at f/8. The Kodak Ektar has no detectable spherical but still needs to be stopped to f/8 to get rid of the coma. These old Tessars are very good lenses. The main fault is that many of them have gotten hazy inside. The haze cleans off with ordinary lens cleaner but you must get the front cell open. The Speed Graphic lenses are easy, the back element screws out, but the Rollei lenses require making a friction tool to remove the front retaining ring. Not too hard to do and cleaning restores the contrast of the lens.

I am not sure what causes the haze. Perhaps its accumulated stuff from the anti-reflection paint inside the cell. I've seen the same effect on coated lenses so its not the glass itself. In any case it comes off easily and doesn't seem to do any damage.

Rollei made a lot of variations of the TLR but I suspect the optical performance is about the same, depending on the lens quality. All Rolleis seem to have pretty good means of holding the lens parallel to the film and holding the film fairly flat. The finder gives excellent focusing means, one reason Rolleis have always had a reputation for exceptional sharpness, despite the same lens being used on a variety of other cameras.

----
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles,Ca.
[email protected]

From Leica Mailing List:
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001
From: Jim Brick [email protected]
Subject: [Leica] Re: Lens cleaning advice: thumbprint

>Adam Bridge wrote:
>
>> Okay, I was cleaning my lens, I'd taken off the UV filter, and I TOUCHED
>THE DAMN COATED LENS. It has a map of Brazil on it now.

Adam,

Lens coatings are far from fragile. You would have to make a direct effort to damage the coating. It is an ion deposit bonded to the glass. It is not something that is just painted on. You can clean your lens as much as you wish, using ROR or ClearSight (I endorse ClearSight) and a microfiber cloth, or a shirt tail, or breath and underware, whatever.

It simply is not easy to hurt a lens. That said, I advise against breaking the filter you have in front of your lens as the shards of filter glass will gouge gashes in your lens coating. Filters are wonderful things for enhancing a photographic result, but are a liability in all other respects.

Jim

From Leica Mailing List;
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001
From: Jim Brick [email protected]
Subject: [Leica] Re: ROR vs. ClearSight

Martin Howard wrote:

>So what's the deal with this ClearSight stuff?
>
>Now all of a sudden one could -- after reading the LUG recently -- be
>forgiven for thinking that ROR is no more effective than soapy water and
>that ClearSight is the way to go.  So, what's the deal?  Is ClearSight
>"better"?  The same stuff in a different bottle?  Or are lens-cleaning fluid
>manufacturers simply trying to subvert us by using a few corrupt LUGGERs to
>influence the rest of us? ;)
>
>M.

Jeez Martin, how behind the 8-Ball can you be??? Go to:

http://www.thegrid.net/joecodi/clearsight.html

or contact Joe directly at "Joe Codispoti"

I've been using it for nearly two years and can attest to its wonderful lens cleaning properties.

Jim

[Ed. note: an important W A R N I N G !!!]
From Zeiss Interest Group
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001
From: Jochen [email protected]
Subject: Re: Re: New Zeiss Fungus Treatment

hallo Pat,

your mixture has a high pH and that means it can be dangerous for some glass surfaces, especially the coated ones ! be careful and wear a eye protection,, it is also highly dangerous for the cornea.

Jochen

Pat Mullen schrieb:

> I have found that NOTHING works anywhere near as well as a 50% mixture of
> ammonia and hydrogen peroxide, mix it just before you use it and apply with
> a Q-Tip.

From Zeiss ZICG Mailing List:
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1969
From: "Robert E. Smith" [email protected]
Subject: Re: Re: New Zeiss Fungus Treatment

Jochen wrote:

> hallo Pat,
> your mixture has a high pH and that means it can be dangerous for some
> glass surfaces, especially the coated ones !
> be careful and wear a eye protection,, it is also highly dangerous for
> the cornea.
> Jochen
>
> Pat Mullen schrieb:
> >
> > I have found that NOTHING works anywhere near as well as a 50% mixture of
> > ammonia and hydrogen peroxide, mix it just before you use it and apply with
> > a Q-Tip.

No chemical should be taken for granted and proper precautions followed. Most of these precautions are logical: do not drink; do not wear (wash off if contacted); do wear eye protection and gloves ( I do not find the peroxide or ammonia particularly irritating to skin, but you might); and particularly - keep the materials out of reach of children and well labeled and dated.

The chemicals mentioned in the originator's post are common household items in most homes in the U.S. Peroxide is sold mostly as a 3% solution which is hazadrous only if misused. The ammonia is more annoying than dangerous, handled properly.

There is no reason for alarm in the use of most household chemical agents if properly used. Follow directions and watch the storage aspects. In my previous life as a chemical engineer, I have been exposed to many hazardous materials including many used in darkroom work, elemental mercury, solid and liquid sodium, asbestos, 45% potassium hydroxide aquious solutions, and the _most hazardous_ of all, high pressure (4500 psi) oxygen, and yet. after 45 years of this, I'm writing this post.

Truly, dr bob.

[Ed. note: for info only, caveat repairer! don't work on lenses unless you have experience and tools and resources needed to do so effectively!]
Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001
From: [email protected] (Richard Knoppow)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.large-format
Subject: Re: Film for Uncoated Lenses

[email protected] (David Morris) wrote:

>[email protected] (Richard Knoppow) wrote:
>Many thanks Richard,
>
>I checked the lens for haze and there was some.  The front part of the
>lens unscrewed easily, so I
>was able to clean the front and rear of the front group and, with the
>shutter on T, the two faces of
>the rear group.  However, there is still haze left on the inner faces of the
>front group which I
>assume is of two elements.   With this partially cleaned lens, using a
>6x9 rollfim back, I got flare
>which reduced the image contrast.  I also was given a Voigtlander 6x9
>folder with another Skopar and
>this has exactly the same problem.  Otherwise both lenses are sharp and
>compare well to later
>lenses.
>
>I cannot see any obvious way of opening that front group.  Any ideas?
>
>
>David Morris

If there is not an obvious back cap the lens is opened by removing the retaining ring on the front. This is the part with the lens name on it. They unscrew although most of them do not have slots or dots for a spanner.

They are removed by using a tubular tool the right diameter to touch the ring but not the glass or edge of the cell. This can be a bottle cap or a section of thin metal tubing from a hobby shop, its not critical. The edge is covered with double stick tape to from a gripping surface. The body of the lens is held in a rubber glove to give some gripping action. Be carful not to squeeze the edges of the mount where the ring is or you will be clamping down on the ring.

If the threads are painted over (as they often are) you must remove the paint. Acetone usually works. It should be very carefully applied with a cotton swab to soften and remove the paint in the threads but not the paint anywhere else. The ring may be resistant at first, but once started it will come out pretty easily. Be careful of it and the cell, the walls are very thin, the threads are fine, and both easily damaged.

If the lens does not fall out when the cell is turned upside down it can be helped out by sticking a bit of sticky tape to its apex and gently coaxing it out. Once out clean both inerior sufaces with Kodak lens cleaner. The haze should come right off. If it is resistant, or there is some streaking try cleaning with a glass cleaner like Glass Plus or Sparkle. Very pure alcohol is also a good cleaner.

After cleaning blow out any dust particals and re-assemble the lens. Be VERY gentle replacing the front element, don't force it. Us a bit of tape again as a handle. The fit at the edges usually has little tolerance so the air inside the cell must escape slowly as the element settles back in place. Once its in replace the retaining ring and tighten it using the same tubular tool. Finger tight is enough. The design of the mount and ring automatically center the glass so that is not a consideration. You may or may not choose to repaint the threads. Unless they cause some flare I would just leave them alone.

This sort of cleaning will probably not be necessary again for ten or twenty years.

Even a slight haze inside the cell raises hob with contrast. Once cleaned you will see a very definite increse.

The Skopar is a very respectible lens, Voigtlander was a quality brand.

---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, Ca.
[email protected]

From Contax Mailing List;
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001
From: Bob Shell [email protected]
Subject: Re: [CONTAX] Cleaning lenses

> From: Markus Berheide [email protected]
> Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001
> To: [email protected]
> Cc: Tom Christiansen [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [CONTAX] Cleaning lenses
>
> Peter mentioned acetone, but I would not recommend it since it might also
> attack plastics.

Acetone is what Schneider recommended to me, but they were speaking of lens elements removed from the lens barrel. The drill is to breathe on the lens and wipe with a cotton cloth dampened with acetone before the mist evaporates from the lens. They recommend this particularly for lenses which have become stained by atmospheric contaminants. (Yes, some types of optical glass are subject to staining, but they are not normally used for front or rear elements.)

I'm currently revitalizing a 180mm f/2.8 Schneider lens for Rollei medium format which had gotten wet. The second element has some staining and I am trying to clear it up again. So far no luck. I haven't tried the acetone yet, though. Waiting for it to be warm enough to work with the windows open! So far the staining has resisted ROR, Eclipse and Deutsche Optik cleaners.

Acetone is dangerous stuff, though, so use with extreme care and lots of air circulation. It is toxic and highly flammable.

Bob

From Rollei Mailing List;
Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001
From: John Hicks [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Rollei] OFF TOPIC: Recommendations for/against the LensPen?

you wrote:

>I really don't want to smear/scratch my 40mm/2.8 Sonnar and wondered if
>anyone has used the LensPen system?

Pens/pads and cloths have surfaced on the market many times; everyone's gotta have them, then word spreads that anything reusable can easily pick up grit which makes "cleaning marks," then no one wants 'em.

John Hicks

[email protected]

FRom Rollei Mailing List:
Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001
From: Richard Knoppow [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Rollei] OFF TOPIC: Recommendations for/against the LensPen?

you wrote:

>Oops. Forgot to ask...
>
>>> I am not very enthusiastic about anything which is reusable, including
>>> the often recommended camels hair brushes.
>>
>> Does this include those microfiber cleaning clothes? Is it recommended  to
>> avoid those as well? Or, is there a way to use them that's OK?
>
>Are there any disposable cleaning tissues that are larger and thicker  than
>the small Kodak tissues. I always had a hard time using them. What about  the
>archival paper wipes that are designed for cleaning negatives?
>
>Doug
>>Doug Brightwell
>[email protected]

The main thing is that anything which can pick up grit can cause scratches. Microfiber cloths work well but have the same problem. I think they can be rinsed out.

I like Kimwipes, a sort of lintless tissue intended for laboratory use. The material has been screened to remove grit and I understand Kimberly Clarke also uses a magnetic field to get iron particles out of the pulp. Kimwipes come in several sizes up to quite large ones. Not too expensive.

They are sold at paper supply houses and many art supply stores. They are good wherever you want a lint free and scratch free tissue.

----
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles,Ca.
[email protected]

From Rollei Mailing List:
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001
From: Richard Knoppow [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Rollei] Re dim Viewfinder

you wrote:

> I mostly read all of the fine information
>on it.
>
> I just recently acquired it and i have shot only a
> It appears to function just fine, and i am impressed with the
>  i can hardly
> So, in low light situations
>where a large aperture is indicated, i am ending up with improperly  focused
>photos.
>
> The mirror appears to be
> Any help would be appreciated/

Something odd here. Check the condition of the mirror and focusing screen. Even the standard screen should not be this dim. Look at the mirror through the viewing lens, it should be clean and in good condition (no sivering flaked off). Ground glass can get very dim when its dirty or oily.

It can be cleaned with a little dishwashing detergent and warm water but you have to get it out of the camera. Not too difficult for an Automat. There are four small screws which hold the focusing hood in place. Once its lifted out the ground glass can be lifted out. You can clean the glass and the mirror benieth it. Use one of the "streak free" glass cleaners like Sparkle or Formula 409 Glass cleaner on it, wiping by draging a sheet of lens tissue or Kimwipe over it. Use the tissue just once. Also clean the back of the viewing lens with the same stuff and some lens cleaning tissue.

If, when everything is clean the image still looks dim you may need a field lens or one of the newer style bright screens. My bet is that the viewing system is dirty. Rolleis are not real bright but should not limit you to bright daylight either.

----
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles,Ca.
[email protected]

From Rollei Mailing List:
Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001
From: Richard Knoppow [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Rollei] OFF TOPIC: Recommendations for/against the LensPen?

you wrote:

>I really don't want to smear/scratch my 40mm/2.8 Sonnar and wondered if
>anyone has used the LensPen system?  This topic a heated debate on other
>photography list servs.
>
>Thanks,
>R.J.

I am not very enthusiastic about anything which is reusable, including the often recommended camels hair brushes.

Clean lenses by first blowing off the surface with a hand bulb. Canned air can be used but be careful, it can reach pretty high pressures.

After blowing off use a brush made of lens tissue. Kodak tissue works very well but even Kimwipes do OK. Roll the tissue into a tube, tear in half and fold so the feathered ends are together. Use this ONCE and toss. You may have to use several to brush dust of a lens. The point is that it applies very little pressure to the surface, picks up particles, and doesn't drag them over the surface again.

For general cleaning any of several types of lens or glass cleaners can be used. Optical glass, and especially modern coatings are not that sensitive.

Kodak lens cleaner is very mild. It is made using Ammonium carbonate rather than the higher pH ammonium hydroxide found in Windex.

Another cleaner which works well are the 2-Butoxyethanol cleaners like Sparkle, Formula 409 Glass Cleaner, and several others. Hewlett Packard recommends these for cleaning the platens of its scanners. Very pure Methyl alcohol is now the standard cleaner for optical assembly. Used to be reagent grade Acetone. Be careful with either. Ususally they are not necessary and the Acetone especially will remove paint and can get into lenses and attack the cement. Its a good idea to _never_ apply a lens cleaner directly to the lens. Put it on a lens tissue or Kimwipe. Use that to apply it to the lens. Use another tissue to blot it up. Do not be stingy with tissues.

Another way to clean very dirty lenses, is to first blow them off gently (high pressure air can force sharp particles to scratch the surface).

Then lay a lens tissue on the lens. Put some lens cleaner on the tissue and drag it off the lens. This will often remove the bulk of the dirt gently enough not to cause scratches.

In any case, be gentle with any cleaning you do.

Its a good idea to keep the lens clean rather than to have to clean it. A good lens cap works.

Finger prints should be cleaned off immediately. The oil in your skin is acid enough to cause some etching if its left long enough. Also, the oil can be a source of neutricion for fungus. Fungus exudes an acid as part of its metabolism which will etch or pit lenses.

Another tip, Moisture condensed on lens surfaces for long periods can also cause pitting. Lenses should be stored in a dry place.

----
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles,Ca.
[email protected]

From Hasselblad Mailing List;
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001
From: Joe Codispoti [email protected]
Subject: Re: How to clean Acute matte D

I clean mine (as well as lenses and other delicate items) with ClearSight which has no alcohol, no ammonia, and no harsh chemicals. See http://www.thegrid.net/joecodi/clearsight.html

Joe Codispoti

From Hasselblad Mailing List;
Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001
From: David Gerhardt [email protected]
Subject: Re: How to clean Acute matte D

This doesn't sound very high tech, but I've cleaned all my focusing screens over the past 25 years in the same way (all hasselblads, both standard & acute matte):

1. blow any grit away with a gentle compressed air jet, then
2. "breathe" on the top surface of the screen (forms a "mist"), then
3. wipe off very gently with an old well-washed t-shirt.

And I NEVER clean or touch the bottom side of the screen (generally clean the screen by removing the waist level finder; leaving the screen in the camera).

Just to double check, I went thru my 203 owner's manual. The only reference I could find regarding the cleaning of focusing screens was the following:

"Lens cleaning solvents or other chemicals should not be used on the focusing screen..." (pp84)

The "Wildi" book doesn't add much; he just adds to "Brush the screen clean, if necessary, using a moist cloth or lens-cleaning tissue. The same applies to the Softars and soft filters, both of which are made from acrylic materials..."

It sounds like the trick is keeping the underside (with the fresnel molding) from getting dirty! ;-)

David Gerhardt

email: [email protected]

From Hasselblad Mailing List:
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001
From: Joe Codispoti [email protected]
Subject: Re: How to clean Acute matte D

Aside of the obvious and logical methods to clean a screen or front surface mirror i.e.: blower and soft-hair brush, there is one more method that I have used with great success: Coat the surface to be cleaned with rubber cement, several layers to make a thick coat. Allow to dry completely. Lift a corner of the gummy coating and peel away. The rubber cement will have absorbed all dirt and grime and will remove it. As I said earlier, I have used this system and it is very effective.

In the end the best policy is to clean often enough to *prevent* the accumulation of dirt that becomes twice as hard to clean. An ounce of prevention...............

Joe Codispoti

From Nikon MF Mailing List:
Date: Mon, 07 May 2001
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Nikon MF) Lens cleaning

Sorry, it is Optyl-7, by Rexton, B&H has it for super cheap.

I say it needs a good technique because you really do need it.

At first, I had a problem with streaking, but since I figured out the best way to use it, its the best, barring the Opti-clean that I can't justify 95.00 for. (yet)

I use 2 sheet of lens cleaning paper, fresh. I have two more on standby. I fold the edge of 2 sheets over, so I have a section of 4 sheet layer, about 1/4 the length of the sheet. I place one (1) drop of Optyl-7 on the middle of the folded section, then move immediatly to the lens surface. I start in the middle, then drag the wetted drop section lightly out to the edges, rotating the lens until the whole surface is smoothly coated. With no delay, I move to the un-wet section of the same sheet, and move in the same pattern. If any streaks exist after the first dry wipe, I move to the ready 2 dry sheets. This gets the lens 'squeaky' clean. Got a replacement front element from Nikon factory clean after I put the positioning suction cup on the -inside- surface and left a nice very subtle ring.

I don't use it with the cloths, although I do use the cleaning cloths but with the Zeiss cleaner, also very good.

From Leica Mailing List;
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001
From: Jim Brick [email protected]
Subject: [Leica] Re: leica lens cleaning tissues

You want the very best lens cleaning cloth and solution, contact Joe Codispoti.

"Joe Codispoti" [email protected]

and see them at

http://www.thegrid.net/joecodi/clearsight.html

Jim

From Leica Mailing List;
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001
From: Jim Brick [email protected]
Subject: [Leica] Re: cleaning...

ClearSight is reasonably new and makes ROR seem like well used dish water. Try it. You "will" like it.

I have a small bottle and one of their cloths in a zip lock bag, in my darkroom, each of my camera bags (LF, MF, 35mm), and one in my office. Yes sir yes sir five bags full...

Jim (used ROR for many years, but no more) Brick

Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2001
From: [email protected] (Richard Knoppow)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.large-format
Subject: Re: Cleaning An Old Old Old Lens

[email protected] (WL) wrote:

>I have a 15 inch lens from the 1800's cut for waterhouse stops.
>I want to use it but it has a some mold in between the elements of the
>back part of the lens. I can see that there is a space between the  elements
>and it corresponds to a thin line that runs around the barrel. It looks
>like this is where it should separate for cleaning but I can't seem to
>unscrew it. What am I doing wrong? How do I clean it?
>
>thanks in advance,
>
>
>WL

If the rear has air spaced elements there is probably either a retaining ring on the end which faces outside or a threaded cap on the part facing the inside of the barrel. Retaining rings can be removed with a friction tool. This is simply a tube of the right diameter for the ring with a layer of double stick tape or a sticky rubber washer on it. The tube can be anything the right diameter. Sometimes its necessary to unstick the threads with a little Acetone.

The lens can be cleaned with any standard lens cleaner or with pure Methyl alcohol. I find the new "streak free" type glass cleaners work very well for lenses.

Fungus can look like a spider web or like circular blotches. Usually a darkening at the edge of a lens is a sign of a cemented lens which is starting to separate. Very old cemented lenses may show crystalized Canada Balsam all over, or it may be milky. Such a lens must be recemented. Not hard to do but getting the lens out may a problem if its burnished into the mount. Air spaced lenses are very seldom burnished but a single cemented element, like the rear element of a Tessar, often are.

Write with more details. The lens can almost certainly be salvaged.

---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, Ca.
[email protected]

From Rollei Mailing List;
Date: Wed, 30 May 2001
From: [email protected] (Richard Knoppow)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.large-format
Subject: Re: Looking for some info on this Zeiss lens I have.

Fishhead [email protected] wrote:

>Carl Zeiss Jena
>Nr 804330
>Tessar 1:4.5 13.5cm
>
>It is in a compur shutter with T,B 1-200
>
>Shutter works and sounds good. (compared to my other shutters)
>Lens is clean and scratch free.
>Correct me if I am wrong but it does not appear to be coated.
>
>Is this lens good for anything?? Will it cover 4X5??
>Can the date be determined from the serial number?
>I suppose I need to get a lens shade to shoot outside.
>I only shoot 4X5 B&W film.
>
>------------------------------------------------------------
>gregarpp       icqmail.com for reply

Its a good lens. Not coated. The serial number is in a break in the Zeiss list but it probably dates from about 1927 - 1928. The shutter is probably a dial set Compur, that is the speeds are set on a small dial at the top. This type of shutter was succeded by the "rim set" Compur about 1930. If its in a rim set shutter it could still be original since lenses were made in batches and mounted later.

The lens is probably from a folding camera. 135mm is the right focal length for 3-1/4 x 4-1/4. It will cover 4x5 when stopped down. The 135mm Tessar was pretty much the standard lens on Speed Graphic cameras before 1940. It will cover 4x5 but must be stopped down to at least f/8 to be sharp in the corners. It was considered desirable to have a somewhat wide angle lens on a press camera.

I have two Tessars on old Speed Graphics and both are very sharp lenses, nearly as good as the later Kodak Ektar.

Sometimes old lenses get hazy inside the front cell. This lens has a removable back retaining cap on the front cell which makes it easy to open for cleaning. I've cleaned a couple of old Tessars which looked like somone had held them over a candle. Whatever this shmutz was it came right off with ordinary lens cleaner leaving the lens sparkling clean. Inside haze or dirt will reduce the contrast very much more than the lack of coating so its worth cleaning.

---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, Ca.
[email protected]

From Hasselblad Mailing List;
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001
From: Henry Posner/B&H Photo-Video [email protected]
Subject: Re: Best Lens Cleaner? ClearSight

you wrote:

>all LUG (Leica Users Group) members who have tried ClearSight have
>agreed that it is a superior product.
>Take a look at the ClearSight page for all info regarding lens cleaning
>products as well as cleaning procedure/hints.
>
>http://www.thegrid.net/joecodi/clearsight.html

I am happy to report that we are now retailers for this well-recommended product.

--
regards,
Henry Posner
Director of Sales and Training
B&H Photo-Video, and Pro-Audio Inc.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com

From Hasselblad Mailing List:
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001
From: Jim Brick [email protected]
Subject: Re: Best Lens Cleaner? ClearSight

Joe Codispoti wrote:

>Don,
>
>all LUG (Leica Users Group) members who have tried ClearSight have agreed
>that it is a superior product.
>Take a look at the ClearSight page for all info regarding lens cleaning
>products as well as cleaning procedure/hints.
>
>http://www.thegrid.net/joecodi/ clearsight.html
>
>Joe Codispoti

I agree 100% with this. ClearSight is indeed the best lens cleaner I have ever used. And I have used everything over the past 50 years!

Jim

From Hasselblad Mailing List;
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001
From: Joe Codispoti [email protected]
Subject: Re: Best Lens Cleaner?

It is extremely important to remove all dust and particles on a lens *before* proceeding with the removal of the film accumulation on a lens surface. It is important to remove all solids, including seemingly harmless dust in order not to grind them into the coating of the lens. This is done best with a soft brush (incidentally, it is not camel hair but squirrel or sable). Finally, the lens is wiped with a cloth moistened with a cleaner of some type, preferably one that leaves no residue. Depending on the cleaning frequency, the first step may be omitted, but under no circumstance should the lens be wiped with a dry cloth. Eventually the lens would show cleaning marks, from microscopic to obvious ones.

Try looking at your lens coating with a magnifier, you might not like what you see.

Joe Codispoti

...

From Minolta Mailing List:
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001
From: "Marko B." <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Water Spots

Micro fiber cloth, breath on the lens and gently wipe the spots off.
Shouldn't be any problem with water drops. I use Pentax mico fiber cloth
on expensive and cheap lenses and never noticed anything wrong.

To: [email protected]>
From: Bob Shell [email protected]>
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 
Subject: Re: [camera-fix] fix the outside

Windex and paper towels can do wonders to get rid of the
stench of tobacco on cameras.  I've had this same problem at
times with things I have bought, and the Windex treatment
eventually got them so I could put them up close enough to
my nose to take photos.

Bob

> From: David Adams [email protected]
> Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [camera-fix] fix the outside
> 
> I bought a Canon AE-1 on Ebay.  It is in good working
> order.  However it reeks of cigarete smoke!  Is there
> anything I can do to clean it off and remove the stink
> without worrying about damaging the camera?


Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 
Subject: Re: [HUG] Re: Lewis and his scratched lens
From: george day [email protected]>
To: [email protected]>

Second.  I use dust-off (discharged lightly and held rather far from the
front element) and, until recently, sterilized cotton, brushes and breath.

Not to sound like a billboard, but I picked up Joe's brush and cleaner, and,
wow -- great stuff.  My wife and I spent most of yesterday hiking and at the
beach.  I came home with three lenses that had a considerable amount of sea
spray on them: 50 and 110 FE and 90/2 Leica M.  Pricey stuff to mess up. A
few careful minutes later, all were very, very clean -- as were my fogged
eyeglasses.  Effective stuff.

"Joseph Codispoti" [email protected]> wrote:

> 
> In response to Peter Rosenthal [email protected]>
> 
> 
> Peter,
> 
> Regarding the filter-for-protection issue, there are two well entranched
> camps resolutely diploying all arguments to support or negate the usefulness
> of such a devise. I tend to agree with your reasoning that where the broken
> filter may have damaged the lens, the cause of the broken filter might have
> damaged the lens directly anyway.
> 
> I agree with you also that cleaning lenses inproperly is a cause for
> scratches and damaged coatings.
> There are plenty of professionals who fail to see the value of proper
> cleaning.
> I disagree, however that frequent cleaning is not good for a lens. Modern
> coatings, unlike the old Planars', are very tough. Cleaning a lens with a
> brush instead of cloth and liquid may be sufficient in most cases (a clean
> brush causes no damage), but a clean lens is much preferable to a dirty one
> for obvious reasons.
> 
> Joe Codispoti

From: "Joseph Codispoti" [email protected]>
To: [email protected]>
Subject: Re: [HUG] Re: Lewis and his scratched lens
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 

From: "Dr. Elliot Puritz" [email protected]>
To: [email protected]>
> Hi George...did I miss something?  What is/are Joe's brush and cleaner?
>
> Elliot


For complete info visit www.clearsightusa.com

Joseph Codispoti
ClearSight USA
P.O. Box 150, San Luis Obispo, CA 93406 USA
www.clearsightusa.com
[email protected]


From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Cleaning TLR mirror?
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 

[email protected] wrote:
: Just got my Yashica MAT 124 G.  Quite a few dust particles on the
: mirror are visible looking through the viewing lens (not thru' the
: focusing screen.)  Any way to clean it other than taking it to the
: technician?

: Andrew

If you can see the dust sharply when you use the viewfinder, the dust is
on the bottom or top of the focusing screen, not on the mirror. Dust and
junk on the mirror can decrease the brightness of the image on the
focusing screen and possibly decrease the contrast, but it will not be in
focus.

I have never taken apart a Yashica MAT, so I don't know how easy it can be
done. I have removed the focusing screen on an Autocord and it was easy.
You just remove the screws that hold the hood/screen in place. Once you
get it off (If there are any shims in the system, remember where they
go.), you can use 'canned air' to gently blow off the dust. Just make sure
you are careful and follow the directions on the 'canned air' so you don't
squirt any cold liquid on the screen.

Ray

-- 
E. Ray Lemar    [email protected] 

Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 
Subject: Re: Cleaning TLR mirror?
From: Bob Salomon [email protected]>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format

[email protected]
at [email protected] wrote 

> you can use 'canned air' to gently blow off the dust.

N E V E R use canned air to clean a front surface mirror!

If you need to blow dust off use the bulb from a blower brush or ear
syringe.

These mirrors are extremely delicate and should not be touched and should be
cleaned as infrequently as possible (read ONLY WHEN NEEDED).


HP Marketing Corp. 800 735-4373 US distributor for: Ansmann, Braun,
CombiPlan, DF Albums, Ergorest, Gepe, Gepe-Pro, Giottos, Heliopan, Kaiser,
Kopho, Linhof, Novoflex, Pro-Release, Rimowa, Sirostar, Tetenal Cloths and
Ink Jet Papers, VR, Wista, ZTS www.hpmarketingcorp.com



From: [email protected] (TheSandFox)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Date: 01 Sep 2001 
Subject: Re: Are B30 filters useable on Bay 1 TLR lenses?

>From: [email protected]
>Came across a dirty round rubber B30 hood
>yesterday.  Something like brown stains all
>over both.  I wonder whether that's fungus
> Is there a way to safely clean
>off all fungus so nothing's left to spread onto my lens?
>Andrew

It is more than likely "hand sweat" from use or cigarette smoke residue.  Both
can be cleaned off with soapy water.  If it is fungus then use a mix of clorox,
water and dish detergent.  The mix is 1 part water + 1/8 part clorox and 1 drip
of dish soap.

TSF.

To: [email protected]
From: Ron Schwarz [email protected]>
Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 
Subject: Re: [camera-fix] of windex

>Storing them in film cannisters shouldn't be the cause.  Window cleaner 
>taken from either the original container (which, by the way is also plastic) 
>or the recycled film cannister don't appear to produce different effects- or 
>for that matter, marks still appear regardless of where the fluid came from.

Semi-tangential to this, but it might save someone some grief -- I suggest
avoiding all "eyeglass" cleaning fluids, no matter how wonderful the claims
on the label.  All of them that I've tried seem to leave a film that is
near-impossible to remove. It smears around, and more fluid -- and more
wiping -- just smears it around more.

My conclusion, after deconstructing the benefits claimed on the labels, is
that the "anti-fog" and so forth depend on "something" being left on the
lens surface. My logic is that any "benefit" imparted by the fluid would be
entirely dependent on it leaving something *on* the lens. Otherwise -- if
it just left a perfectly clean lens -- there would be no way for the
cleaning fluid to have any affect on the glass.  IMO the most important
characteristic of a lens cleaner -- besides removing dirt and not damaging
the coating -- is that it must leave absolutely *no* residue.  Anything
that leave an anti-fogging "something" (or anti-static, or anti-anything)
on the lens is automatically disqualified.

Caveat: if you've got to go on a shoot in a hostile environment where
you're faced with either the loss of the job (due to fogged lenses from
miserable temp/humidity combo), or "gunked" lenses (from eyeglass type
cleaner) that you can restore afterwards with some no-residue cleaner, then
you'll obviously do what makes sense rather than follow "good advice" by
rote.


To: [email protected]
From: "rmacleay" [email protected]>
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 
Subject: [camera-fix] Re: of windex

--- In camera-fix@y..., "stuey63au" madfamily at b... wrote:
> I've been contemplating making my own cleaner out of distilled water, 
> isopropyl alcohol, and/or ammonia.  Anybody got any ideas on amounts 
> and relative merits of each?

Inasmuch as Zeiss advertises its own lens cleaner as 
Ammonia-free...



To: [email protected]
From: "ervinhill2000" [email protected]>
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 
Subject: [camera-fix] Windex ???

There seems to be a bit of discusion about the use of windex. I've 
been using it for about 40 years with no problems. I used it to clean 
the ROR of my lens when it smeared. But if anyone wants to try, here 
are some others:
Formula "40" by "Sprayway" Try local art stores
Home brew = 2 parts water, 2 parts alcohol, 1 part ammonia
>From Leica??? = 10% ammonia, 90% distilled water, and a very small 
amount of hydrogen peroxide to kill fungus
Crystal Mist, #32-034BDZ, Navy Brand Manuf. Company, 3670 Scarlet Oak 
Industrial Blvd, St. Louis, MO 63122 (314.861.5500) (Cleans damper 
goo off mirrors)
Regular film cleaner works for mirrors (cleans the goo)


To: [email protected]
From: "junebug1701" [email protected]>
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 
Subject: [camera-fix] Lens cleaner formula/glass cleaner formula

I got this formula from one of the astronomy newsgroups. The trick is 
to use 99.9% isopropanol, not the 70% that the drugstores sell. Also, 
use distilled water, not spring water or mineral water, but distilled 
water. Finally, one small drop of Palmolive dishwashing liquid to act 
as the surfactant:

---------------

FWIW, I make my own optical lens cleaner as follows:  50/50 mixture 
of distilled water and the purest isopropyl alcohol I can obtain, 
plus one tiny drop of liquid dishwashing detergent per quart of mix.  
Works great for eyeglasses, camera lenses, binoculars, monoculars, 
telescope eyepieces, and refractor telescope objectives.  Works 
better than any commercial lens cleaner I've ever tried.  I've found 
that it also works well on mirrors and also to clean the insides of 
vehicle windows.  A few years ago, I sprayed it on outside mirrors 
which were covered with ice, and was very pleased to see not only 
that the ice melted, but also that the mirrors drained clear without 
me having to wipe them off.

        -- Gerry
Gerald Pearson & Sue Sarlette ([email protected])

---------------

For years, Consumer Reports has tested various glass cleaner 
products, and they still report that their own homemade formula works 
better than any of them. Here is their formula:

Consumer Reports' glass cleaner       
                                      
1/2 cup ammonia                       
1 pint 70% alchohol                   
1 tsp liquid dishwashing detergent    
                                      
Add water to make 1 gallon.           


To: "Camera-Fix" [email protected]>
From: "Bob Mazzullo" [email protected]>
Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 
Subject: [camera-fix] Re: Photo-Flo

Sorry to butt in like this...I haven't seen the whole thread....but I have
never used Photo-Flo from Kodak. When I was younger, "messing
about" in the Ft. Wadsworth Army darkroom (my friends were Army
brats) we were told Palmolive dishwashing liquid was essentially the
same as Photo-Flo. About 5-10 drops per 1/2 gallon made usable solution
for tank developing. In the 30 years since, it has never failed me, left any marks,
residue, or any type of ill-effects on my film (B&W). You can imagine how long
a quart bottle of dishwashing liquid lasts, diluted 10 drops per half gallon.....
as well as how much $ I saved......


Thanks,

Bob Mazzullo
Staten Island, New York


From nikon mailing list
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 
From: Henry Posner/B&H Photo-Video [email protected]>
Subject: Re: Cleaning Focusing Screens.

you wrote:
>I could
>clean off excess lens cleaning fluid by using a dry lens cleaning
>tissue and using a slight bit of pressure.

The problem with excess fluid is that the screen's a sandwich and if
moisture gets in between the slices, it's not only a mighty pain to
eliminate, but it's also a breeding ground for mold.

--
regards,
Henry Posner
Director of Sales and Training
B&H Photo-Video, and Pro-Audio Inc.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com


From minolta mailing list:
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 
From: [email protected]
Subject: Lens Cleaning

I suppose the debate will go on between lens cleaners and non lens cleaner
users but I thought you may want to know what a couple of pros think about 
it.

"LENS CLEANING TIPS

>From Bryan Geyerat Really Right Stuff:  Stop buying lens cleaning tissue.
Buy rolled absorbent cotton instead.  It cleans the front element of your
lens like a charm and leaves no residue. I've gone a step further: I save
and use the cotton from my supplement bottles.  From Moose Peterson: Use
Lens Clens # 1 Coated Optics (Industrial Optical Cleaner) for cleaning all
your equipment, including the front elements of all your lenses
(telephone: 714-535-2271).  I bought the pint bottle which will most
likely last a lifetime as I clean my stuff less in a year than Moose does
in an evening..... I keep the 1 3/4 oz. refillable bottle in my vest with
a few chunks of absorbent cotton.  Be sure to use a blower brush to remove 
any sand, dirt, or grit before using the Lens Clens
and the cotton. Use one wet chunk of cotton to clean the lens and then a 
dry
one to polish the front element.  (Moose cleans the surfaces of all his
lenses and camera bodies and accessories as well as the  front elements of
his lenses with an old,soft, cotton t-shirt each night.)
 Best and great picture making,
Arthur Morris

http://www.birdsasart.com/b1.html


Also picked this tidbit up about using Canon's IS lenses..
"Canon IS Lenses:Bulletin subscriber and long time top NYC photo-journalist
Ralph Ginzburg wrote advising that Canon's big new IS lens would not be as
attractive as I thought to pro-sports shooters as they require action
stopping shutter speeds to freeze their fast-moving subjects, and would not
benefit from IS which is effective at slower shutter speeds.  Thanks 
Ralph.";


Later,
Bill B.  (USA)


from leica topica mailing list:
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 
From: Jim Brick [email protected]
Subject: Re: Nocti Vignetting

Ted Grant wrote:

>And we wont tell them about the little zit in the glass of my 15mm R lens I
>discovered the other day. Oh well life is just awful some days. ;-)
>
>I have no idea how long it's been there, but probably happened when I stuck
>it in my pocket during a quick lens change and there happened to be
>something else in the pocket with it.
>
>Hey I'm not loosing any sleep over it as it's not effecting the images at
>all. Why it might even be improving them. ;-)
>ted

Ted,


You and I both know that a zit or two, scratch, small hole, whatever, won't
in any way effect your images.

If the giant bubbles in my early Zeiss lenses didn't effect anything, a  zit
or two sure as hell won't.

To all LUGgers:

But dirt and grime will since it is evenly distributed over the whole
lens. It effects 100% of the light rays. Not just .00000001% of the rays
as a zit or bubble will. It makes fine detail disappear. Turns your film
camera resolution into digital camera resolution. Keep your lenses clean.
Go to LUGger Joe Codispoti's site and partake.

http://www.clearsightusa.com/

Great great stuff!!!


Photographed any welders lately Ted?

:)

Jim


From nikon mf mailing list:
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 
From: "shepherdlen" [email protected]
Subject: Re: How to clean the mirror in FM2



> I've noticed some dust particles which have got
> stuck to the mirror. Does anyone especially those in
> the camera repair field help me with a simple way to clean the mirror/
> focussing screen.

I have watched Nikon technicians do it to mirrors with rain spots on..
With a steady hand you can do it yourself.

First remove any dust with a clean, dry, lens brush or, better still, a
print spotting brush.

If this is not enough you need lens cleaning tissues (the technician was
using soft toilet roll!), cotton sticks (more flexible than cocktail
sticks), raw alcohol (flamable -do not smoke!) and spray can anti static
cleaner.

First roll a tissue at least 10 times round the cotton stick to make a
soft, flexible tissue wipe. Damp it with raw alcohol. Do not over damp as
raw alcohol can attack plastic. Then carefully wipe over the mirror but
not the screen if it is plastic. Use another cleaning tissue wrapped
around the cotton stick to quickly dry off the mirror.This gets the mirror
clean but can leave smears.

Then spray some anti static cleaner on a saucer - not in the mirror box!
Damp a third tissue with the fluid, and clean the mirror again with the
aid of the cotton stick. If the screen is interchangeable and badly soiled
you can do that too, but screens are more easily scratched than mirrors.
Dry off with a fourth tissue. This removes any smear and any static.

The same technique works on lens surfaces but again do not over wet 
anything as you are damping the lens surface, not pouring liquid on it.

Len Shepherd. 


From minolta mailing list:
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 
From: "Alan Kerr" [email protected]
Subject: Re: Lens Cleaning

>(Moose cleans the surfaces of all his
lenses and camera bodies and accessories as well as the  front elements of
his lenses with an old,soft, cotton t-shirt each night.)


And I thought I was the only one that used old T-shirts for this. You have to
use the right T-shirt though, the ones that have gone all soft after many washes.

Alan Kerr


  ----- Original Message -----
  From: [email protected]
  To: [email protected]
 Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 
  Subject: [Minolta] Lens Cleaning


  I suppose the debate will go on between lens cleaners and non lens cleaner
  users but I thought you may want to know what a couple of pros think about it.

  "LENS CLEANING TIPS

  From Bryan Geyerat Really Right Stuff:  Stop buying lens cleaning 
tissue.

  Buy rolled absorbent cotton instead.  It cleans the front element of your
  lens like a charm and leaves no residue.

  I've gone a step further: I save and use the cotton from my supplement
  bottles.  From Moose Peterson: Use Lens Clens # 1 Coated Optics (Industrial
  Optical Cleaner) for cleaning all your equipment, including the front
  elements of all your lenses (telephone: 714-535-2271).  I bought the 
pint  bottle which will most likely last a lifetime as I clean my stuff 
less in a  year than Moose does in an evening..... I keep the 1 3/4 oz. refillable
  bottle in my vest with a few chunks of absorbent cotton.   Be sure to use a
  blower brush to remove any sand, dirt, or grit before using the Lens Clens
  and the cotton. Use one wet chunk of cotton to clean the lens and then a dry
  one to polish the front element.  (Moose cleans the surfaces of all his
  lenses and camera bodies and accessories as well as the  front elements of
  his lenses with an old,soft, cotton t-shirt each night.)
  Best and great picture making,

  Arthur Morris
  http://www.birdsasart.com/b1.html

  Also picked this tidbit up about using Canon's IS lenses..
  "Canon IS Lenses:Bulletin subscriber and long time top NYC photo-journalist
  Ralph Ginzburg wrote advising that Canon's big new IS lens would not be as
attractive as I thought to pro-sports shooters as they require action
  stopping shutter speeds to freeze their fast-moving subjects, and would not
  benefit from IS which is effective at slower shutter speeds.  Thanks 
Ralph.";

  Later,
  Bill B.  (USA)




From nikon mailing list
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002
From: Henry Posner/B&H Photo-Video [email protected]
Subject: Re: Cleaning Focusing Screens.

you wrote:
>I could
>clean off excess lens cleaning fluid by using a dry lens cleaning
>tissue and using a slight bit of pressure.

The problem with excess fluid is that the screen's a sandwich and if
moisture gets in between the slices, it's not only a mighty pain to
eliminate, but it's also a breeding ground for mold.

--
regards,
Henry Posner
Director of Sales and Training
B&H Photo-Video, and Pro-Audio Inc.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com




From: [email protected] (Laren Miracle)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Using bleach on lenses
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 


At our camera repair shop we use denatured alcohol to kill fungus.
It is also great for oily smears.

Vinegar is great for water spots and other things not affected by
alcohol.
It is acidic, but it is safe.

We make out own lens cleaner to use afterwards but windex will work
fine as well.

I don't think I'd use bleach or acid, especialy if you risk loosing
the coatings.

Larr

 "Roland" [email protected] wrote:

>I've recommended using bleach on lenses before, where they have been
>affected by fungus. It works a treat (but you might lose your lens coating
>in the process). I use window cleaner containing some acid for cleaning the
>lens first. And if that does not do the trick then I use bleach on it and
>leave it overnight. I thought I had a couple of lenses that had been etched
>by fungus but I used thick bleach on one of the lenses last night to see if
>that would shift it and it did. I highly recommend it for those fungus
>affected lenses in your old cameras.
>



Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 
From: Richard Knoppow [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [Rollei] OT Easy service lens (was felt and plush : a possible source)

 you wrote:
>That sounds like a cool design.  I wonder why the newer
>lenses aren't as easy to service as your older one?  Not
>that you need to do it often, but dust and other particles
>eventually creep in between the elements eventually.
>
>> I just got a Zeca 9 x 12 camera with Unofokal lens. This lens is
>> great and
>> really easy to clean. It's possible to screw lose all lens elements and
>> clean them. No cemented lenses, never a risk for separation. :-)

  The problem comes with small sealed cells. While larger lenses very often
have back caps which unscrew many smaller lenses have front retaining
rings. These unscrew too, but it may not be obvous. Many lenses have the
threads painted over so it looks like there is no way of getting them
apart. Retaining rings of this sort are removed by using a tubular friction
tool. A few have slots in them (Schneider does this) but the friction tool
is safer even when there are slots.

  What I've observered is that older lenses often get hazy inside. I don't
know the source of the haze definitely but I think it may be something
evaporated from the anti-reflection paint in the cell. In any case it comes
off very easily once you can get access to the lens surface.

  This haze completely destroys the contrast of the lens. I suspect many
old lenses which are thought to be low contrast due to lack of coating are
actually just dirty.

----
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA
[email protected]


From Minolta Mailing List:
  Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 17:45:49 -0800 (PST)
   From: venkat reddy 
Subject: Re: Cleaning lenses


 Here is some info from photo.net

Basic lens cleaning tools are a blower, a microfiber cloth, and lens cleaning
fluid. Try to blast dust off the lens with the blower or canned air. Finger
prints can be removed with a circular wipe of the new miracle micro fiber cloth
(my favorite brand is Pentax because it is nice and thick; about $6).
Persistent dirt should be removed with lens cleaning fluid, of which the safest
is probably Kodak. Always drip the fluid onto the cloth and then wipe the lens;
never put fluid directly onto a lens. My personal favorite is Residual Oil
Remover, available in many camera shops for about $4.

Even if your lenses don't look dirty, every few months you should give exposed
surfaces a cleaning with Residual Oil Remover (ROR). Even if you were able to
protect your optics from all environmental sources of filth, there would still
be crud condensing on your optics as camera bag plastics outgas. ROR has a
bunch of advertising hype about how you can get a full 1/2 stop of extra
brightness from your lenses after a treatment. I haven't experimentally
verified this nor do I believe it, but the optics do look visibly clearer after
an ROR treatment.

I don't like to obsess over my equipment, so I keep a B+W UV filter on almost
all of my lenses. I count on replacing the filters every few years rather than
being paranoid all the time.

Hope that helps.


From Nikon MF Mailing List:
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 
From: Josef Brugger [email protected]
Subject: Re: Cleaning Focusing Screens.

For cleaning the focusing screens, I use a very soft brush from the art
store and a good magnifier. No liquids
at all; if you use the tweezers and the case they are packed in, there's no
reason for anything greasy to be on there. Sometimes it takes a while to
get all the bits of fluff and grit off of it.

Joe


From: [email protected] (Aramis)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: lens cleaning how to?
Date: 5 May 2002


DO NOT USE FACIAL TISSUE! i.e. unless you WANT ro ruin your lens
coating. Lens tissue is not all that expensive. Lens tissue is not
"only paper". Its special paper that does not scratch or otherwise
damage the lens coating. Besides if youre ok to buy the fluid, then
you oughta be ok to buy the tissue coz they go together and youll use
the liquid with the tissue not with your fingers. Buying cleaning kits
is the best option.

In the meantime, go here: -

http://www.popphoto.com/HowTo/ArticleDisplay.asp?ArticleID=111

Aramis

"Eos-Elan7 Owner" [email protected] wrote 
> Most humble greetings to all,
>
> I was wondering if there is some cheap way of cleaning our lenses, I mean
> without having to buy expensive special "lens cleaning" tissue.
> Is normal facial tissue not good? Also what about the fluid? which is the
> cheapest I can get away with?
> Any ideas about common substitutes for these two things that you guys might
> have discovered? I mean I am ok to buy the fluid, but I feel bad buying some
> kind of tissue for this, I mean its only paper!!
> Thanks for your help!:-)
>
> Amit




from camera fix mailing list:
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 
From: Bob Shell [email protected]
Subject: Re: Lenspens

 pixelsaurus at [email protected] wrote:
> Does anyone have an opinion on these ie to use or not?

Yes I have an opinion.  Don't use them.

Bob

from camera fix mailing list:
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 
From: Bob Shell [email protected]
Subject: Re: Lenspens

gabriel bovino at [email protected] wrote:

> Anyways... that's my story on it.  I think they do a pretty good job!

I think it is far too easy to get grit under the tip and scratch a lens,
which is why I don't recommend them.

Bob


Date: Sun, 09 Jun 2002
From: Peter Caplow [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: How to clean reflect mirror


Philip Greenspun says not to do it yourself.  See:

http://www.photo.net/learn/cleaning-cameras

I have on occasion cleaned a mirror as follows:  For removing dust I use a
blower or canned air (but only a gentle breeze) in conjunction with a lens
cleaning brush just barely swishing across the surface of the mirror.  The
stream of air from the blower swirls the bristles of the brush across the
mirror with almost zero pressure.  Often, this is not sufficient to get the
mirror really clean.  In that case I float a corner of a lens tissue on a drop
of lens cleaning fluid and swirl the fluid with NO pressure around the mirror
until the fluid evaporates.  Naturally, this leaves some residue on the
mirror.  To remove it, I fog the mirror with my breath and VERY gently clean
the mirror with a Q-Tip wrapped in a microfiber lens cleaning cloth.  The
shaft of the Q-Tip is flexible and the tip is a soft cotton ball, so it's
relatively easy to avoid applying too much pressure at the tip.  This method
works fairly well but you will probably end up with a few light scratches.  I
wish I knew where to buy the "special viscous fluid" that Philip says
technicians use.

Peter Caplow

chinhmtran wrote:

> Hi All,
> I have just bought an used Bronica SQ-AM.  The mirror is very dusty,  What
> would be the safest way to clean it without scratching.
>
> Thank


From: [email protected] (Robert Monaghan)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: How to clean reflect mirror
Date: 8 Jun 2002 



a) light air puffs from a lens cleaning bulb (kind of rubber bulb palm
size with camel's hair at base). avoid touching most mirrors as they
easily scratch. A rubber ear bulb or syringe used to clean ear wax is
used by some repairers. Others use a fine camel brush to remove stubborn
or stuck on dust, but this can cause scratching on some front surface
mirrors so beware...

b) can of air, used very gently, angled so as not to spray fluid on mirror

c) there are some collodion solutions (pun intended) that lift off
fingerprints and the like, but these are costly for single cleaning
shot, but useful if you have problems...

hth bobm


From: Randy Randy@[email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: How to clean reflect mirror
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002


R-12 is the freon that is being phased out.
It's not banned yet, just very very VERY expensive.
Commonly refered to as Liquid Gold.

It's R-410A that you're thinking about being Ozone friendly.
Also known as brand names Puronr or Suvar

And as far as Freon no longer being available?????
There are quite af ew types of Freon being produced.

(fre'on) [trade name], any one of a special class of chemical
compounds that are used as refrigerants, aerosol propellants, and
solvents. These compounds are haloalkanes, i.e., halogen derivatives
of saturated hydrocarbons (see alkane ). Every Freon contains at least
some fluorine in its molecule, and most contain chlorine or bromine as
well. Freons are generally colorless, odorless, nontoxic,
noncorrosive, nonflammable, and chemically unreactive. The most
commonly used is Freon-12, or dichlorodifluoromethane (CCl 2 F 2 ),
which boils at 29.8 and is thus a gas at ordinary temperatures and
pressures. It is prepared by the reaction of carbon tetrachloride with
hydrogen fluoride in the presence of a catalyst. There are a number of
other Freons. Some of those containing bromine in their molecules are
used in fire extinguishers.

Regards
Randy

www.holgamods.com



Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 
From: Richard Knoppow [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Rollei] Coating Flaws in E Series

you wrote:
> Peter  I've been told that alkaline cleaners may be injurious to coatings.
> I tested the highly regarded lens cleaner ROR, and found it to be
>  I have never had a problem with
>  It works.  For other than camera lenses, I use a 40% solution of ethyl
>alcohol
>  (Trader Joe's Vodka works
>perfectly, and it's a hell of a lot cheaper than the proprietary cat-piss
>that dealers charge for lens cleaner solutions).  Jerry Lehrer
>Kotsinadelis, Peter (Peter) wrote:         Windex will work too but you may
>have to use it a few times to get rid of the fungus if its heavy.  Peter K
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Douglas Anthony Cooper [mailto:[email protected]]
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2002 
>> To: [email protected]
>> Subject: RE: [Rollei] Coating Flaws in E Series
>>
>>
>> Assuming this stuff is or was fungus, what should I use to
>> make sure it's
>   I'm
>> nervous to try vinegar on an old coating.
>>
>>
>> Douglas Cooper
>> http://www.dysmedia.com

  Very pure Isopropyl alcohol works fine and doesn't leave a residue.

  Regular (blue) Windex, and similar glass cleaners are a solution of
Ammonium Hydroxide. Kodak lens cleaner is (according to its MSDS) Ammonium
carbonate. The carbonate is safer than hydroxide due to its lower pH.
Alkaline solutions can dissolve some types of optical glass, however, I've
never heard of any real problem from using Windex. In fact, an old friend
who worked for Bausch & Lomb in the binocular department, told me they used
Windex regularly.

  I've found the more recent "streak-free" type glass cleaners to be
superior to windex. These contain 2-butoxyethanol. Most seem to be purple
in color. Hewlett-Packard (my alma motter) recommends this stuff for
cleaning scanner windows.

 All in all I find Isopropyl alcohol works as well as anything and is
readily available cheap at the drug store at 99% purity. It even works on
plastic glasses.

  A good tissue for optical purposes is Kimwipes. This is a grit and lint
free tissue made by Kimberly-Clark (Kleenex) and available at paper supply
and art supply places. Its available in several sizes. I prefer this to
Kodak lens tissue because it doesn't disintegrate when wet.
----
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA
[email protected]   



Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 
From: Paul Shinkawa [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Russiancamera] Cleaning a lens
To: [email protected]

Peter:

Some lenses are so dirty that attempting to clean them
with Kodak lens cleaner and paper will scratch the
coating. On those, I use "Windex", a common ammonia
and detergent window cleaner together with a soft,
clean cotton cloth such as an old diaper. Finish up
with a gentle wipe using a  micofiber cloth to remove
the last trace of oil. Do this just once, just to get
the grit off the lens. After that use a soft brush and
the lens cleaner with lens paper.

-Paul


Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 
From: "James P. Hamilton" [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: opti-clean

Hi,

I enjoyed your page on lens cleaning at
http://medfmt.8k.com/broncleaning.html.  I noticed
I am president of Dantronix, am a research scientist and one of the
three developers of Opticlean Polymer.

We worked long and hard developing it and are constantly doing research
on improving it.

We sold some to a guy in england when we were starting out, but it's
american through and through and has been reformulated to be better and
safer on lenses.

Our web site is www.opticlean.com or www.dantronix.com. The kits are
available there in much larger quantity than the few places we used to
provide it to. Just FYI

Jim
*************************************************
James P. Hamilton, Ph.D.
Dantronix Research and Technology, LLC
180 Bayley Avenue, Platteville, WI  53818
Tel: 608-348-7353           Fax: 775-255-2872
[email protected]        www.dantronix.com


From: [email protected] (Neuman - Ruether)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Cleaning Hoya MC UV filters.
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 


This does work well, if followed with a distilled-water
rinse... I then blow off water droplets with a good
hand air-syringe and finish with breath and a good
lens tissue (WITHOUT SILICONE IN IT!!!!).

"Alan Chan" [email protected] wrote:

>Wash it with warm tap water and dish detergent.

>>Lots of posts about UV filters recently.  Made the jump and bought five
>>multi-coated filters and am discovering that they aren't easy to clean.
>>Anybody have a really good way to these clean?  Thanks!


David Ruether
 [email protected]
 http://www.ferrario.com/ruether


From: Rudy Garcia [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Cleaning Hoya MC UV filters.
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002


 [email protected] (ATSF3460) wrote:

> Lots of posts about UV filters recently.  Made the jump and bought five
> multi-coated filters and am discovering that they aren't easy to clean.
> Anybody have a really good way to these clean?  Thanks!
>
> Mike Martin / Peoria Heights, IL

Here it goes once again.


Rudy's Lens & Filter Cleaning Guide
___________________________________

Step 1.
Use a blower bulb (not a compressed gas can) to gently blow off any
particulate matter from surfaces.

Step 2.
Follow up with a lens cleaning brush (I'm partial to the "lipstick" type
of brush). Never touch the hairs on the brush, as you'll transfer your
body grease to the hairs and from there to the glass. Use the brush to
dislodge any particles that weren't blown away by step 1.

1 & 2 above are usually sufficient for most cleaning if you are careful
handling your equipment and keep you fingers off the optics, but if you
have to, then continue on to step 3.

Step 3.
Use lens cleaning tissue with a drop of lens cleaning fluid on tissue (I
use Kodak, or ROR if necessary). Wipe glass surface gently with a
circular motion, from center to edge. If a residue film resembling an
"oil slick" (ie. multicolored rainbow like film) remains after the glass
is dry, then switch to ROR (Residual Oil Remover) and repeat this step.
If the 3oil slick� remains, you are most likely using too much fluid.


Thats it!

Microfiber cloth is great stuff, but I hardly ever use it. I rather use
a pristine tissue of lens cleaning paper rather than risking using a
microfiber cloth that may be harboring a small particle of grit (like a
sand grain) left over from previous use. One swipe with it and whoila!
instant "lens cleaning mark". I don1t like lens pens much for similar
reasons (using the same cleaning surface over and over), plus the carbon
dust like residue it leaves behind.

I also don't like to recommend alcohol because of its flammability.

Some of my lenses are more than 15 years old and the glass is like the
day Nikkon manufactured it.

Hope this helped.

--
Rudy Garcia


From: "Eric Miller" ericmilleratericmillerdotdynipdotcom
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Cleaning Hoya MC UV filters.
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 


In the case of tenacious oily residue on filter:

1.    Remove retaining ring.

2.    Remove lens

3.    Dip lens into bowl of water with about a tablespoon of Dawn
dishwashing liquid.

4.    Rub lens between soapy fingers.

5.    Rinse

6.     Dry with clean tissue

7.    Blow off tissue fragments with blower brush

8.    Replace lens

Eric Miller


"ATSF3460" [email protected] wrote...
> Lots of posts about UV filters recently.  Made the jump and bought five
> multi-coated filters and am discovering that they aren't easy to clean.
> Anybody have a really good way to these clean?  Thanks!
>
> Mike Martin / Peoria Heights, IL



From: "Mike" [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Cleaning an SLR mirror
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002


For 30 years I have cleaned mirrors using 3 chemicals.  First I do not use a
Q-Tip I use long fiber cotton, the kind sold rolled up under the Johnson &
Johnson label.  I roll the kimwipe or cotton on a tweezers, saturate the
wipe or cotton and very lightly wipe the mirror.  In the beginning I used
re-agent grade either mixed 50/50 with alcohol, nasty stuff you didn't smoke
around it.  When I went to work for a shop on 14th street in NYC  I used to
use a chemical product called ethyl acetate. This was used at Berkey
Marketing in both the Rapid-Omega and Konica shops.  It evaporated very fast
and left no residue.  The down side to this stuff was that it would mar
counter windows and other kinds of plastic but for glass and mirrors it was
the best.  Next I used freon 113, it was almost as good as ethyl acetate.
Now I use a product called Techspray on mirrors and glass.  It is as good as
freon 113.

Some mirror surfaces are softer than others but over all the mirror system
in an SLR is not fragile if it were it would be damaged every time you used
the camera.

...


from hasselblad mailing list:
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 
From: Craig Roberts [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HUG] Mirror cleaning - a pro answers

Hurrah! My mirror is now clean and bright. Many thanks to those who replied
to my query.

Karl Wolz recommended the judicious use of breath fog and Q-Tips. Though a
little scary, the method worked perfectly.  Karl, thanks for the tip (so to
speak).

I had also consulted John Hermanson, the legendary Olympus repair guru.  He
has serviced several OM bodies for me and has always returned them with
spotless and undamaged mirrors and viewfinder screens (even those that were
absolutely filthy with sticky decayed foam residue). Here's his method:
"wrap lens tissue around the end of a wooden chopstick, moisten the tissue
with lens cleaning fluid and pass it over the mirror -- several times if
necessary."

To some this will sound brutal -- but John's never hurt any of my mirrors.
The pros seem to favor this sort of no-nonsense approach, like the Leica
factory service chief who, much to my horror, forcefully scrubbed my
much-prized Summicron with a well-used microfiber cloth -- with no ill
effects and sparkling results.

By the way, Jim, it wasn't the transient dust that bothered me :-). It was
the fog and the fear that moisture-trapped contaminants (tiny particles I
could see clearly)might corrode the silver.

Anyway, thanks again.

Craig
Washington, DC


From russian camera mailing list:
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 
From: "Jay Y Javier" [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Russiancamera] How to clean the camera body and case?

A child's toothbrush can be used to scrub off surface gunk.  Used dry, it would
take out dry set dust and could make an otherwise dirty looking camera look
clean.

This toothbrush is quite small, which would allow it to scrub through tight
places, and being designed for children, would have supple bristles.

Jay

[email protected] wrote:

>Can anyone suggest me how to clean the camera body without scratching it? I
>receives a Zorki 4 from ebay and the chrome body needs cleaning but I don't
>know if I should use light soap water or polishing wax etc?
>
>Also, can I use shoe polish to polish the leather case or any other
>substances?



Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 21:00:30 -0700
From: Karl Wolz 
Reply to: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [HUG] Mirror cleaning (somebody's got to do it)..

Craig,

I've fogged mine with my breath and used a cotton (important) Q-tip.
Technique is important here.  You must not put any pressure on the
mirror surface, and you must roll the q-tip in the direction opposite to
that which you are moving it.  You must also toss out the Q-tip before
you have completed a full revolution - otherwise, you'll be transferring
any dirt or grit back onto the mirror's surface.  I've found that two or
three passes in perpendicular directions will usually clean up a goodly
deposit of haze.

If you use a cheap non-cotton swab, you'll get a bunch of streaking,
since the material is not absorbent.

Karl Wolz
...


From: "Jeremy 1952" [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Has Kodak discontinued its lens-cleaning tissues??
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 

> I've been told that Kodak has stopped making the little disposable
> lens-cleaning tissues that come in yellow envelopes.  Can anyone confirm or
> deny this?  It sounds hard to believe, but I've had absolutely no luck
> finding these tissues anywhere in recent months.

Kodak has, indeed discontinued their in-house production of lens cleaning
tissue.  However, the product is now made by Tiffen, in Rochester, NY (might
they have bought the factory from Kodak?)

I bought a couple of packages a few months ago, and they look the same as
before, even to the point of prominently displaying the red "Kodak" logo on
the bright yellow envelope.

The fine print says, "Kodak licensed product.  Made in USA by Tiffen, LLC,
Rochester NY 14624.  For more info: (716) 328-7800."

You might want to give them a call.  They might have a mail-order
arrangement available.  After all, with so many camera shops having closed
their doors, or merged, it is probable that there are wide areas of the US
that don't have a good camera supply vendor anymore.

It seems that all you can buy these days are lower-end SLRs from Ritz, all
of which come with a Quanteray cheap zoom lens . . . but that's another
story.

Cheers!


From: [email protected] (DM)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Cleaning a Hoya Super-HMC filter.
Date: 12 Sep 2002


I didn't realize this when I bought some Hoya super-HMC filters,
but the new ones advise you not to use any liquid/chemicals to
clean them. They advise you to use a soft cloth (microfiber)
instead.

Just noticed that there were a few spots of gunk on my new filter
after a day out in the rain/dirt, which refuse to go. How would
you go about cleaning this?

Thanks!


From: T.P. [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Cleaning a Hoya Super-HMC filter.
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 


[email protected] (DM) wrote:
>I didn't realize this when I bought some Hoya super-HMC filters,
>but the new ones advise you not to use any liquid/chemicals to
>clean them. They advise you to use a soft cloth (microfiber)
>instead.
>
>Just noticed that there were a few spots of gunk on my new filter
>after a day out in the rain/dirt, which refuse to go. How would
>you go about cleaning this?


Most of us who have used Hoya HMC filters have experienced exactly the
same problem.  The only solution is never to buy a Hoya HMC filter. I
use a mixture of B+W, Heliopan, Hama and Nikon filters, all of which
are multi-coated and none of which suffer from the Hoya HMC problem.

I strongly suggest that you try cleaning your filters with running
water and a tiny amount of mild soap.  Rinse thoroughly and dry with a
clean no-lint cloth.  You can use lens tissue if you can be bothered
with the stuff.  I can't be bothered with anything that takes time.

Beware: You must never clean a Hoya polariser with any liquid, not
even clean water, because the liquid will get into the polariser
"sandwich" and ruin it.

After years of cursing the many other brands of polariser that suffer
from this same problem, I discovered the 'Kaesemann' polarisers sold
by B+W and Heliopan.  They have the edges of the sandwich sealed with
epoxy and they are waterproof.  I buy mine in Germany (wholesale) and
the price is little more than the retail cost of a Hoya HMC.

Of course, if you knew the wholesale price of most filters (not just
Hoya) you would never, ever buy another!  The same applies to Sigma
lenses, which have some of the highest mark-ups I have seen.


From: NickC [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Cleaning a Hoya Super-HMC filter.
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002


Hoya coated filters spot easily and are difficult to clean and
attempts to clean them sometimes damage the coating. I would advise
either fogging and 'gently' cleaning it with a microfiber cloth and if
that doesn't work, try wiping it 'gently' with just a small drop of
distilled water on lens tissue immediately followed by the use of a
microfiber cloth. I hope one these recommendations work for you.

If that doesn't work, give the filter to someone who recommends the
use of Hoya filters. {g}

Nick


From minolta mailing list:
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 
From: "Dave Saalsaa" [email protected]
Subject: Re: Lens cleaning advice needed, part 2

Most of my cleaning of lenses is with ClearSight cleaning solution used with
a CLEAN cotton/poly t-shirt or a micro fiber cleaning cloth.  I never use
lens paper.  It's too easy to scratch delicate lens coatings with the paper
lens tissue.  And I NEVER us a lens pen. Most of the time, I find the CLEAN
cotton/poly t-shirt works the best for not leaving cleaning residue.  But
before I use any cleaning solvent, I use a clean soft camel hair brush to
dust off any foreign matter from the lens surface.  Then very gently rub a
cleaner wetted cloth on the lens surface in a gentle circular pattern.  The
final cleaning is after I breathe on the lens and gently wipe off the breath
fog with the soft cleaning cloth.

Dave Saalsaa


From minolta mailing list:
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 
From: "haefr2000" [email protected]
Subject: Re: Lens cleaning advice needed

Yep, crud accumulates. (though some spots are air inclusions in the
molten glass during the melt)  Most of this stuff is harmless to
image quality.  And the accumulation on inner surfaces would require
disassembly of the lens in order to dispatch.  When I was still
actively practicing optometry, I'd periodically run across a
condition called, "asteroid hyalitis" in patients' eyes.  It's a
benign accumulation of metabolic precipitates in the vitreous (the
clear "gel" that fills the inner chamber of the eye from the lens to
the retina).  As its name suggests, it looks like a star field under
trans-illumination, complete with a remarkable sensation of depth
even though viewed monocularly.  Yet it has NO effect on the
patient's vision!  Since most optometrists are too cheap to call
their equipment manufacturers' reps every time a spec of dust shows
up on their diagnostic instrumentation, I'll share a pearl of wisdom
about what WE do for quick cleaning:  90% isopropyl alcohol on a
dampened fresh cotton swab, followed with a dry fresh cotton swab.
Any remaining cotton fiber lint can be blown off or "dusted" off with
a clean lens brush.  70% isopropyl alcohol usually has lanolin, so I
don't recommend it for optical use. (gunk city over time)  The 90%
stuff is available at most drug stores.  Cotton is a benign fiber vis-
a-vis lens coatings (and front surface mirrors for that matter if
used SPARINGLY).  I was taught to studiously avoid ANY paper products
on plastic surfaces and coated glass surfaces.  Oh, those silicon
treated tissues made by a company with the words, "sight"
and "savers" in its name, and "guarenteed" safe for glass and plastic
surfaces?  Use 'em to blow your nose with.  Or better, yet, don't
buy 'em in the first place.  The microfiber "cloths" dampened with
90% isopropyl alcohol are great, though!

Ray Haeffele


From minolta mailing list:
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 
From: "saycheese9" [email protected]
Subject: Re: Lens cleaning advice needed, part 2

This is a good topic, one that I hope keeps continuing.  Those of us
that have made mistakes can give you the benefit of those
experiences. First use a can of bottled air and blow off the crust.
But only after testing the air first to make sure there is no
moisture or contaminants blowing out. If you get any of the aerosol
contents on your glass you're in deep road apples.If the bottle is
layed on it's side, it will blow crud out of it at first but later
should run clean.

Then buy a lipstick brush, *a new one* made from camel hair.  These
are nice because the brushes contract back into the canister when you
turn it in one direction.  Lightly wipe the lens with the brush.
Blow off the remaining dust particles again. If your lens is still
dirty then use the solution the optometrists use for plastic glasses
(if anyone disagrees please do so).  Never use anything with
silicone, especially those papers.  Even Kodak papers, which are
lintless, will leave rub marks on the glass if used over a period of
time.  A clean 100% cotten cloth like from a t shirt works great
(emphasis on clean).  Optometrists sell wonderful cloths. They're
kind of speny but less expensive if you buy them in bulk. If you use
a cotton t shirt make sure you do not use anything containing the
seams. The threads will ruin your lens.  Also when you launder the
cloths, you have to make sure you get ALL the detergent out.  I still
think the optometrists cloths are the best.  The thing to remember is
that when you rub glass with any cloth that contains dust or lint on
it, you are using a type of abraisive.  Dust is an abraisive as is
lint. I think there is a theory that lint was used as a cutting agent
for the pyramids. Fingerprint grease will leave a purplish tint or
residue on the glass if you look at it reflected in the sun.  That
stuff can be really hard to get off.  Cleaning glass in the field can
be dangerous as dust and lint is ubiquitous.  More people will
hopefully keep this thread continuing.
...


From minolta mailing list:
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 
From: "haefr2000" [email protected]
Subject: Re: More on lens cleaning

YES!  Acetone is a potent neuro-toxin and is also quite toxic to the
liver. It's dangerous as an inhalent and can also be absorbed through
the skin. (It's a common ingredient in solvent-based plastic cements -
 weld agents, really - and has been popular in the past for
the "high" it imparted to the intelligence-challenged middle school
set.)  If you need something to cut through oil/grease deposits, a
much safer alternative is common "paint thinner" (mineral spirits).
Paint thinner is much less likely to harm plastic or dried and set
paint, too.  Don't confuse "paint thinner" with "lacquer thinner",
though, which contains acetone.

--- In Minolta@y..., "Hung2002" hungkh@s... wrote:
> I wonder if acetone is a poison when we breathe in the fume?
> Or some contact with our skin?
>
> Hung


From camera fix mailing list:
Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 
From: "James Jones" [email protected]
Subject: Re: Re: Lens cleaning without gel fluid

Peter Wallage wrote:

>To get specks of lint and so on off a lens surface I fold a piece of
>masking tape, or 3M sticky tape, so that the sticky side is outwards
>and dab the surface of the lens with it. All the specks stick to the
>tape. So far I haven't noticed any ill effects to lens coatings.

Better still is to use 3M Post-It Notes. The adhesive is just sticky
enough, but not too sticky. And it leaves no residue.

Peter, I tried to respond to your email to me but it bounced twice.

James



From: [email protected]
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 
Subject: Re: [Contax] lens cleaning set
To: [email protected]

       Foto Huppert's order form for the Zeiss cleaning kit starts in German
and continues in English.  I ordered one in English, and got a fax (also in
English) asking for additional information on my card.  All my dealings with
this company have been in English, and I have found them very courteous and
helpful.

I am expecting the cleaning kit to arrive this week.

       Albest, Robin


From minolta mailing list:
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 
From: "Kent Gittings" [email protected]
Subject: RE: Re: Lens cleaning advice needed, part 2

in that case a little black from the barrel gets on the Q-tip. If the optics
are mounted in plastic, like cheap optics, I usually don't dab around the
edge till most of the acetone has evaporated from the Q-tip. My policy is to
switch to something else near the rim if that looks like it may be an issue.
Even at the worst and a little plastic residue gets on the lens it cleans
off easily.

Kent Gittings


Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 
From: Gordon Moat [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Agfa 6x6 folder scans online


The window cleaner trick works well. I did a pure alcohol soak after that, and
the len elements came out super clean. Two overnight (10 hour) soaking were
enough to completely clean the elements. The toughest part to clean was that
green stuff on the focus threading.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
Alliance Graphique Studio
http://www.allgstudio.com


From nikon MF mailing list:
From: [email protected]
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 
Subject: [Nikon] Re: CCD cleaning

I googled "ccd cleaner" and found a couple of interesting links

Kodak provides instructions for cleaning their cameras here:
http://www.kodak.com/global/plugins/acrobat/en/service/tib/pdf/tib4232.pdf
and recommends this company,

photo solutions, sensor swab

http://www.photosol.com/

or 100% pure alcohol (200 proof)



David


From: [email protected] (Hartmut Krafft)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Cleaning a Bronica SQ focussing screen
Date: 17 Feb 2003 

"Mike" [email protected] wrote:
> I've just picked up a Bronica SQ and the focussing screen could do with a
> clean (it's a split screen with micro-prism). I don't want to trash it by
> cleaning with anything abrasive as I'm guessing it'll remove the matte but
> there are some marks on it that will need more than a light wipe with a lens
> cloth.

These screen are made of plastic, so you can't use anything
containing alcohol or other dissolvents.
Also, they are designed rather stupidly (otherwise, the Bronicas
are fine, though): the Fresnell lens with its delicate concentric
structure is lying open on the upper side, exposed to everything.
(Interestingly, the Kiev screens, though dark, are much better in
this regard: they're covered with a smooth piece of plastic.)

So the task is to dissolve the dirt form the fine grooves without
damaging the surface too much. In my experience, it's best to:
-blow off the loose stuf (dust, sand etc.) so that you won't be
using it as abrasive later
-take some clean water and put it on a clean, soft paper
(handkerchief or so)
-put the soaked paper on the screen surface and let the humidity
dissolve the dirt
-after some time, try to gently remove the dirt with varying
parts of that paper trying to follow the circular grooves
-flush with water and repeat cleaning with new paper (don't use
pressure and follow the grooves)
-finally, flush with demineralized ('destillated') water (so that
you won't get chalk marks) and let dry.

HTH
Hartmut


From: Rudy Garcia [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Cleaning lens
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 

"David Griffin" [email protected] wrote:
> I am at a loss. I have some "stuff" on my lens. I have tried everything to
> clean it off EXCEPT a liquid cleaner. I have always been very reluctant to
> use a wet cleaner on a lens. As a rule, I have not used a UV or SKY filter
> to protect the lens surface. Does anyone have a good "tested and tried" way
> to clean this lens? Alcohol based? Anyone...........

Rudy's Lens & Filter Cleaning Guide
___________________________________

Step 1.
Use a blower bulb (not a compressed gas can) to gently blow off any
particulate matter from surfaces.

Step 2.
Follow up with a lens cleaning brush (I'm partial to the "lipstick" type
of brush). Never touch the hairs on the brush, as you'll transfer your
body grease to the hairs and from there to the glass. Use the brush to
dislodge any particles that weren't blown away by step 1.

1 & 2 above are usually sufficient for most cleaning if you are careful
handling your equipment and keep you fingers off the optics, but if you
have to, then continue on to step 3.

Step 3.
Use lens cleaning tissue with a drop of lens cleaning fluid on tissue (I
use Kodak, or ROR if necessary). Wipe glass surface gently with a
circular motion, from center to edge. If a residue film resembling an
"oil slick" (ie. multicolored rainbow like film) remains after the glass
is dry, then switch to ROR (Residual Oil Remover) and repeat this step. 
If the 3oil slick� remains, you are most likely using too much fluid.

Thats it!

Microfiber cloth is great stuff, but I hardly ever use it. I rather use
a pristine tissue of lens cleaning paper rather than risking using a
microfiber cloth that may be harboring a small particle of grit (like a
sand grain) left over from previous use. One swipe with it and whoila!
instant "lens cleaning mark". I don1t like lens pens much for similar
reasons (using the same cleaning surface over and over), plus the carbon
dust like residue it leaves behind.

I also don't like to publicly recommend alcohol because of its
flammability. 

Some of my lenses are more than 15 years old and the glass is like the
day Nikkon manufactured it.

Hope this helped.

--
Rudy Garcia


From: [email protected] (Neuman - Ruether)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Lens cleaning adventure
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 

Avogadro [email protected] wrote:

>I bought a lens off eBay (35mm/2.0) and it arrived kind of filthy, so
>I went through the usual cleanup of the barrel and glass. This
>revealed the 30-year old specimen to be near-mint.
>
>Only thing is, there was still a film of some kind on the front
>element. Several lens-cleaning tissues later, the film was still
>there. Lens cleaning solution would not budge it.
>
>This film was not that bad, just enough to leave a sheen on the lens,
>showing wipe marks. I found it annoying, though, so I gingerly applied
>some isopropyl alcohol and wiped with the tissues. Made no difference!
>
>What could form such a stubborn film?! What liquid do we know that
>won't evaporate and is so persistent? Maybe silicone...
>
>I recalled that some lens cleaners for eye glasses are made with
>silicone. Obviously not for use on camera lenses. But who knows what
>this lens has experienced. 
>
>I knew that silicone dissolves quite nicely in hydrocarbon solvents.
>So with great trepidation, I wiped the element with a tissue wet with
>paint thinner... let it evaporate completely... then followed with a
>breath and another tissue. What a difference. No trace of the film was
>left.
>
>Just thought I'd relate this... maybe someone else has observed a
>stubborn film like this, or possibly has even caused it by using the
>wrong lens cleaner.
>
>For clarification, the paint thinner was a low odor hydrocarbon type,
>NOT lacquer thinner. Be careful - if you try this on your gear, you do
>so at your own risk!
>
>Avogadro

Surprisingly, I've seen lens tissue (Olympus brand)
with silicone in it, and also "lens cleaners" with
it. It should be avoided, since good as the lens
looks soon after "cleaning", soon it doesn't look
so good, and the stuff is difficult to remove...

David Ruether
[email protected]
http://www.ferrario.com/ruether



[Ed. note: thanks to Richard for sharing these notes with us!]
From: Richard Fateman [[email protected]] 
Sent: Tue 6/24/2003
To: Bob Monaghan Cc: Richard Fateman 
Subject: cleaning of lenses professionally


Hi Bobm:

I have some facts to contribute, but not sure of where to do it!

Anecdote:
I had a Rollei 6006 crap out on me, bad gnashing of gears.
I sent it to Rollei in NJ to find out if it was worth fixing
(yes, two gears for $0.87 each plus $150+ for CLA etc to install them)
Anyway, the point of this note is that I included two older
lenses, a 50mm and 150mm HFT (non-PQ), to be cleaned, because I
saw what appeared to me to be very small flecks, internally.
These are visible only when you shine a flashlight into
the lens.

I wasn't about to disassemble these lenses since my efforts
to clear out similar stuff from old Schneider enlarging lenses
by disassembly, then using lens cleaner, ROR, etc. didn't improve
stuff, though I could remove some fungus.

The estimate for lens CLA was much higher than I thought....

Rollei advised that I should consider replacing the "spools" which
are the motors for the shutters, with new stronger ones. The old
ones eventually short out and ruin the camera circuitry. They would also
clean the lenses as requested.

I went for the repairs etc (total cost about $600!) and was
somewhat dismayed to find the lenses still had considerable
fleck population.

I called the technician (Honig, I think) and he assured me that
older lenses look like that, and further efforts for cleaning
would not do anything but maybe ruin the coating.

So I was kind of disappointed, since I hoped the lenses would
look perfectly clear.

Maybe these are the
Morals of the story: if you can't get flecks to disappear,
maybe they are not removable. They probably don't affect
your results in any significant way (says Honig; I kind of
agree.)

Comments? (Should I post this somewhere??) Thanks
for your useful work on so many photo topics.

Richard Fateman



[Ed. note: we are NOT recommending this method, simply including it here to show the
lengths to which some people will go to clean their camera mirrors ;-) ]
From: Jim [email protected]
Newsgroups: uk.rec.photo.misc
Subject: Cleaning a mirror - mad scientist speaks!
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 

I was googling for a safe way to clean some
dust/hair off my F80 mirror when I found this.
Just shows that we photographers aren't quite the
nuttiest biscuits in the tin... !

Jim


"I came up with a new (and I think ideal) method
of dust removal. First, expose the mirror to a
little steam to make the dust particles slightly
conductive. Next, use a very low current high
voltage generator to charge the mirror surface (I
used a small Van de Graff). 99% of the dust
jumped off the mirror surface, 0 change of
scratching the coating.

You want a 100KV+ voltage source (DC) at extreemly
low current. If you live in a dry area, you might
be able to use wool rubbed against a PVC pipe to
charge yourself up adequately to clean a mirror.
If you do not add moisture to the dust, the charge
will only make the dust harder to get off (use
steam to leak the charge off).

If you try this, be careful not to allow arcing to
the mirror surface (it could pit your coating).

It is possible that this technique might work on
coated corrector plates too.

Anyone else tried this? I am thinking of making a
small roller generator to ionize the air above the
mirror to keep the dust away during observing
sessions.
Dean

Safety warnings:
DO NOT USE A SIGN/COPIER TRANSFORMER to try this.
be careful that you do not end up creating a
capacitor out of your mirror, if you mirror is in
a metal cel, keep the cel at the same potential as
the front side of the mirror If are aren't willing
to touch the output of your high voltage ps, don't
use it for this"



From camera fix mailing list:
Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 
From: "Abdon Gonzalez" [email protected]
Subject: Re: Mirror cleaning

Alcohol will do. The trick is to keep aplying small amounts and to let
it soak. If you just try to use a bit of alcohol and wipe it off,
depending on the nature of the gunk you can end up with a smear worse
than before.

Your best bet is to sacrifice a chunk from a microfiber cloth. First
brush off in an outward motion all the dust and loose particles, that's
what scratches the mirror. Soak the gunk a few times, letting it sink
in. After that, grab your piece of brand-new microfiber cloth and in a
single motion but with pressure wipe outwards. If you put a good amount
of pressure you won't have to do it twice, minimizing the posibility of
scratches.

Unless you are selling the camera your best bet is to leave it alone;
It doesn't make the viewing area any darker.

- Abdon
http://www.sillypages.com/

> Hi,
>
> The mirror in my XG-M is dirty because of deteriorating foam.
> Am I correct to assume that -pure- isopropanol (isopropyl alcohol)
> is the best solution to clean this delicate surface (my pharmacist
> said it's better than denaturated alcohol)?
> Or are there other chemicals better suited for the job?
>
> TIA,
> Dietbrand Vandenberghe


From camera fix mailing list:
Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 
From: "Abdon Gonzalez" [email protected]
Subject: Re: Mirror cleaning

Let's see if I can manage this without posting it twenty times.... :}

You do not want to use compressed air on the mirror chamber. All that
dust is going to end up somewhere, most likely further inside your
camera. There are plenty of small holes leading straight to the inside
mechanisms. Some of the delicate gears in there are covered by a thin
coat of lubricant. If that lubricant gets sullied with even small
amounts of dust, next thing you know things don't move as they should.

Also, cotton is abrasive. You can certainly use Q-tips but don't rub
with them.

Brush and don't blow with anything harder than one of those bulb brush
thingies. Sacrificing a chunk off a brand-new micro cloth works like a
charm and minimize (but does not eliminate) chances for the mirror to
get scratched.

- Abdon
http://www.sillypages.com/

> But keep that can of air at a good distance from the mirror. It can
dump residues and or cause the mirror to flip disastrously.
>
> Peter St


From camera fix mailing list:
Date: Fri, 23 May 2003
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Mirror cleaning(T. Tomosey's Suggestions)

[email protected] writes:
> Even on brand-new cameras the silvering is on top. Putting the
> >silvering on the bottom of the mirror causes ghosting.


Thomas Tomosy, in his "Camera Maintenance & Repair" Vol. 1 advises"

"The only excuse for cleaning the mirror is if it's dirty and you want to
sell the camera, or if you are doing an overhaul for someone else. In general,
don't poke around inside the mirror chamber. People will go in there with a
brush or a Q-tip trying to "dust off" the mirror, the screen or the shutter. There
is absolutely nothing to gain by "dusting off" in there, but you stand a good
chance of harming the works.
I have seen scratched screens, broken mirrors and damaged shutters, all
becausethe owner tried to do some house-cleaning inside the mirror chamber.

Blowing in there is not a good idea either. The air may carry the dust behind
the screen and dirty up the viewfinder. If you must blow off the mirror or
the screen use low pressure, perhaps a squeeze-bulb.

If you must clean a mirror, do it the same way you cleaned the lens, only a
lot more carefully. The mirror coating is usually aluminum (softer than the
lens coating, much softer than glass). Use tweezers to hold a tightly folded
piece of tissue as your cleaning tool. Some of the newer mirrors may have a thin
glass coating over the aluminum. These are less vulnerable to cleaning than
bare aluminum, but unless you know for sure, assume it's uncoated and treat it
with utmost care."

I agree with Tomosy. I try never to touch the mirrors on SLR's and will never
mess with the partially mirrored glass in a RF camera rangefinder. I disagree
with his "tweezers and tissue" suggestion. Ordinary tissue (Kleenex, etc) is
coarse, fibrous and very abrasive. And placing a metallic implement like a
pair of tweezers inside the chamber sends chills up my spine! One slip and the
mirror or screen is scratched beyond repair.

Others may disagree.

Roland F. Harriston


From camera fix mailing list:
Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 
From: "Rick Oleson" [email protected]
Subject: Re: Mirror cleaning(T. Tomosey's Suggestions)

When I have to clean rot-gook off a mirror, i first wipe the yuck off
with a cotton swab very wel wetted in naphtha so as to not require
much rubbing. This leaves "water marks" on the mirror, which I then
remove by wrapping a lens cleaning tissue (not a Kleenex) around the
end of another cotton swab, wetting this with lens cleaning fluid and
wiping it again. This still leaves a light water mark, which can be
removed by repeating the last process with a dry tissue on a dry
swab, just breathing on the mirror to fog it before wiping.

This works fine with modern, hard-coated mirrors as are found on most
SLRs (but nothing pre-war). Luckily, the hard coating process (an
offshoot of lens coating technology, I believe) came along before the
use of rapid-rot polyurehane around the focusing screen, so where the
problem occurs you're usually safe to clean it off. Earlier,
uncoated silver mirrors are NOT safe to touch at all.

Also, many viewfinders, having the mirrors tucked "safely" inside,
have uncoated beamsplitters even in the days when hard coated mirrors
were available. These need to be approached with extreme caution;
the beamsplitter surface is often a one-molecule-thick layer of 24
karat gold and it will be gone before you realize you've touched it.

rick :)=


From camera fix mailing list:
Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 
From: "Rick Oleson" [email protected]
Subject: Re: Mirror cleaning(T. Tomosey's Suggestions)

I've very recently added a page to my website of links to various
sources of hard-to-find parts and supplies. I just added the semi-
silvered beamsplitter stock to the page, and in the process of
setting it up noticed that the price for these has recently come DOWN
from $17 to $13 for a 50mm square by 1mm thick piece. This doesn't
sound that cheap maybe, but you can get several rangefinders out of a
piece (with care and luck in cutting), and the regular Edmund's
catalog charges $31.60 apiece for the SAME part (and the source IS
Edmund's, just a different catalog!)

anyhow, the page is http://members.tripod.com/rick_oleson/index-149.html

my website is now loaded to about 85% capacity, so i may have to do
some housecleaning if i'm going to add much more to it....

rick :)=



Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10
From: David Nebenzahl [email protected]
Subject: [Russiancamera] Re: cleaning lenses and cameras
To: Russiancamera-user 

rudi wrote:
>
> hello everybody,
> i was just wondering when i see all those beautiful pictures
> with shining camerabody's and lenses what product can be used
> to get them so shining and lustrous?

Oh boy, I can tell this is going to be a long thread.

Others will give plenty of answers, many of which will agree with each other.

For me:

* Cleaning & polishing chrome:
If I can take the chrome part off when disassembling a camera, I soak it in
paint thinner to loosen dirt, scrub gently with an old toothbrush, wipe it
dry, then polish with metal polish (Guardsman, lots of other brands will
also work fine). On-camera, I use a Q-tip with paint thinner (or charcoal
lighter fluid) to scrub off dirt, then use a Q-tip and soft rag to polish,
being careful not to get polish in cracks, on optics, etc.

* Lenses:
Lots of folklore abounds in this department. I use both Windex (!) and
denatured alcohol (methyl alcohol), depending on what kind of schmutz is on
the lens.

I have recently discovered that *it is not necessary to use expensive lens
tissue* to clean lenses. Now, I can hear the chorus: "my god, this guy is a
heretic! burn him at the stake!", but I swear to you that if you're very
careful (which obviously you should be in any case), you can use ordinary
tissue (toilet paper) with no damage to the lens.

The key is to make sure there's *absolutely no grit* on the lens which could
cause scratches when you wipe the lens. I blow off what I can with a small
compressor, then carefully brush with a blower brush. Then I wet the lens
with cleaner (window cleaner or alcohol) with a small clean brush, then wipe
very carefully with clean tissue.

The other trick is to do one wipe that leaves no trace of dirt. If you try
to clean just one spot, you'll probably leave a visible trail on the lens.

The other rule I've made for myself is to limit how much I clean and wipe.
Better not to try to clean too much than to risk scratching, especially with
coated optics.

I've successfully cleaned very expensive optics to an almost pristine
condition with these methods. It ain't rocket science, but is does require
care and patience.

Postscript:
I forgot to say that one side effect of using non-official lens tissue is
that there will inevitably be little pieces of fluff left after wiping.
These are easily blown off by compressed air, and won't harm your precious glass.



From kiev88 mailing list:
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 
From: "olivier" [email protected]
Subject: for clean mirrors and lenses .

formula from Zeiss for lenses and mirrors cleaning ....
>
> > 1% amoniac
> > 39% alcohol isopropilo
> > 60% distilled water


Olivier







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